Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-20 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Wednesday 20 May 2020 11:55:57 Dan Henderson wrote:

> Gene,
> Based on your response I believe you're referring to a PDM commanded
> spindle. I'm using PWMGEN pulses to drive my PM DC Motor.
>
> I think I have it now tweaked about as good as I can get it. It took a
> combination of modifying the following two HAL entry values:
>
> setp pwmgen.0.scale 7600
> setp pwmgen.0.offset 0.13
>
> The scale item was needed to get a consistent reading at 300 rpm and
> 2000 rpm. Consistent in the sense that they were each exactly XXX
> rpm's off of the commanded RPM. When this is out of wack, you could be
> spot on at 300 rpm but be off by 500 at 2000 rpm.
>
> The second item was needed to remove the noted RPM error achieved with
> the former and to arrive at the commanded RPM.
>
> Not sure what ya call what I went and done, but it fix' d er and good!
> :)
>
The final, acid test for all this, is does it work for you and what you 
want to do?

If interested, I have some hal code that could be transplanted, that 
shows you in the axis righthand panel, the spindle turns of overshoot in 
getting it turned around at the bottom of the G33.1, and with my version 
of a peck tap routine, also shows you the overshoot distance, which in a 
peck cycle situation that is the overtravel distance. So if you know the 
depth of the hole, this distance is subtracted from the stroke of the 
peck, preventing the tap from bottoming in the hole and breaking. But to 
really use it well will require a mental change in how this stuff is  
measured. Preferably by actually probing the hole. I haven't yet made 
the probeing tool, nor have I attempted to measure all my taps and put 
them into our newly expanded tool table. To do that I also need to 
modify a 3/4" bsr holder into a 7/8" tap holder since I've put keyed  
brass hats on all my taps. There are priority's and right now its taking 
care of my missus in her final time here. COPD.  So my time in the shop 
is somewhat limited.  So the g-code is "incomplete" but the concept test 
works.

Stay well and safe Dan.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-20 Thread Dan Henderson 
Gene,
Based on your response I believe you're referring to a PDM commanded
spindle. I'm using PWMGEN pulses to drive my PM DC Motor.

I think I have it now tweaked about as good as I can get it. It took a
combination of modifying the following two HAL entry values:

setp pwmgen.0.scale 7600
setp pwmgen.0.offset 0.13

The scale item was needed to get a consistent reading at 300 rpm and 2000
rpm. Consistent in the sense that they were each exactly XXX rpm's off of
the commanded RPM. When this is out of wack, you could be spot on at 300
rpm but be off by 500 at 2000 rpm.

The second item was needed to remove the noted RPM error achieved with the
former and to arrive at the commanded RPM.

Not sure what ya call what I went and done, but it fix' d er and good! :)


On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:40 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Tuesday 19 May 2020 20:58:45 Dan Henderson wrote:
>
> > I have encoder.0.position-scale set to 400 and I have all three phases
> > A,B,Z enabled as inputs. Me thinks it might have to do with
> > pwmgen.0.scale or the pwmgen.0.offset. Not entirely sure what those do
> > yet. I believe scale assumes you know the max rpm the motor will run
> > and sets the increments accordingly by PWM percentage. I'm not real
> > clear on it. The command speed of say 1000 rpm is very close to the
> > Pypanel display speed. Any value below 1000 in the panel is suspect.
>
> I found the linearity of speed control was much better if I used a large
> R between the analog output of my spinx1, and the former location that
> the slider arm from the speed control connects to.  Try something in the
> 47k to 100k range. That point seems to be the summing point of the
> feedback loop and you won't see a huge voltage there, as it drives that
> point to a reference voltage, in order to get an error voltage that
> actually drives it.  Drive that point with too low a source R, and it
> will go wide open rapidly without good control at the lower speeds.
> That point it at the hot side of the line so be very carefull not to
> ever ground it.  That lets out all the smoke and it doesn't work
> anymore.
>
> Rule of thumb, if it gets to full speed before the spinx1 gets to 10
> volts, scale up that "buildout resistor" accordingly.  It likely still
> won't be linear, but it will be a lot better, with stiffer control at
> the reduced speed settings.
>
> The spinx1 is a mesa gizmo that isolates that control voltage from
> ground.  Theres a bunch of those available on the net from various
> suppliers, but the mesa spinx1 is generally the lowest priced and best
> engineered on of the lot.  I'm useing one of them to control the vfd on
> my Sheldon 11x54 lathe.  And there it works very well.
>
> I am not using one on the aftermarket clone vfd I put on the 6040, when I
> found the onethat came with it was not capable of being controlled.
>
> There I am feeding the output wave of the pwm-gen directly to that
> electronic resistor function in a 7i76, and its very linear.  And I'll
> burn my fingers trying to stop it at any any speed above around 200
> rpms.  And its a 24k rpms motor, so I was pleasantly surprised once I
> had found the right register to turn up the low speed motor current to
> that motors nameplate FLA.  But now I've rigged a mister for coolant,
> and can spin it up nicely while cutting alu.
>
> Rule of thumb for cutting alu, if its heating the work enough to detect
> it getting warm when you touch it, its too hot, get a coolant mist on
> the tool.
>
> > On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 6:54 PM Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 19 May 2020 18:16:49 Dan Henderson wrote:
> > > > The CUI ATM 103. The PPR is set at 100 both on the device and in
> > > > HAL. I’m not using scale mode since I needed Quadrature in order
> > > > to detect CCW for rigid tapping.
> > >
> > > You should be able to set encoder scale at 400 w/o effecting the
> > > quadrature direction sensing. But I've no experience with how CUI
> > > does it.  All the encoders I have built fed either software or mesa
> > > in quadrature modes. ABX outputs IOW. I've only one commercially
> > > made one, an omron 1000 line but it's not on the spindle, it's on
> > > the motor but the index still comes from the spindle.  So the scale
> > > changes with the backgear. Works well.
> > >
> > > > On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 5:03 PM Gene Heskett
> > > > 
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday 19 May 2020 17:28:40 Dan Henderson wrote:
> > > > > > Thanks Gene.  I too dabbled in Amiga ARexx back in the day. I
> > > > > > was / still am a Commodore aficionado. To this day, I have
> > > > > > working Amiga, C-128, and C64 hardware. I prefer Assembly
> > > > > > Language over BASIC for obvious reasons with speed being
> > > > > > foremost among them. But I digress...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I ended up building a reversing cirucuit with a Tyco 12v DPDT
> > > > > > relay capable of 15a / 30 VDC switching. So long as I don't
> > > > > > attempt a direction flip that exceeds those max ratings I

Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-19 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Tuesday 19 May 2020 20:58:45 Dan Henderson wrote:

> I have encoder.0.position-scale set to 400 and I have all three phases
> A,B,Z enabled as inputs. Me thinks it might have to do with
> pwmgen.0.scale or the pwmgen.0.offset. Not entirely sure what those do
> yet. I believe scale assumes you know the max rpm the motor will run
> and sets the increments accordingly by PWM percentage. I'm not real
> clear on it. The command speed of say 1000 rpm is very close to the
> Pypanel display speed. Any value below 1000 in the panel is suspect.

I found the linearity of speed control was much better if I used a large 
R between the analog output of my spinx1, and the former location that 
the slider arm from the speed control connects to.  Try something in the 
47k to 100k range. That point seems to be the summing point of the 
feedback loop and you won't see a huge voltage there, as it drives that 
point to a reference voltage, in order to get an error voltage that 
actually drives it.  Drive that point with too low a source R, and it 
will go wide open rapidly without good control at the lower speeds.  
That point it at the hot side of the line so be very carefull not to 
ever ground it.  That lets out all the smoke and it doesn't work 
anymore.

Rule of thumb, if it gets to full speed before the spinx1 gets to 10 
volts, scale up that "buildout resistor" accordingly.  It likely still 
won't be linear, but it will be a lot better, with stiffer control at 
the reduced speed settings.

The spinx1 is a mesa gizmo that isolates that control voltage from 
ground.  Theres a bunch of those available on the net from various 
suppliers, but the mesa spinx1 is generally the lowest priced and best 
engineered on of the lot.  I'm useing one of them to control the vfd on 
my Sheldon 11x54 lathe.  And there it works very well.

I am not using one on the aftermarket clone vfd I put on the 6040, when I 
found the onethat came with it was not capable of being controlled.

There I am feeding the output wave of the pwm-gen directly to that 
electronic resistor function in a 7i76, and its very linear.  And I'll 
burn my fingers trying to stop it at any any speed above around 200 
rpms.  And its a 24k rpms motor, so I was pleasantly surprised once I 
had found the right register to turn up the low speed motor current to 
that motors nameplate FLA.  But now I've rigged a mister for coolant, 
and can spin it up nicely while cutting alu.

Rule of thumb for cutting alu, if its heating the work enough to detect 
it getting warm when you touch it, its too hot, get a coolant mist on 
the tool.

> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 6:54 PM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Tuesday 19 May 2020 18:16:49 Dan Henderson wrote:
> > > The CUI ATM 103. The PPR is set at 100 both on the device and in
> > > HAL. I’m not using scale mode since I needed Quadrature in order
> > > to detect CCW for rigid tapping.
> >
> > You should be able to set encoder scale at 400 w/o effecting the
> > quadrature direction sensing. But I've no experience with how CUI
> > does it.  All the encoders I have built fed either software or mesa
> > in quadrature modes. ABX outputs IOW. I've only one commercially
> > made one, an omron 1000 line but it's not on the spindle, it's on
> > the motor but the index still comes from the spindle.  So the scale
> > changes with the backgear. Works well.
> >
> > > On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 5:03 PM Gene Heskett
> > > 
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday 19 May 2020 17:28:40 Dan Henderson wrote:
> > > > > Thanks Gene.  I too dabbled in Amiga ARexx back in the day. I
> > > > > was / still am a Commodore aficionado. To this day, I have
> > > > > working Amiga, C-128, and C64 hardware. I prefer Assembly
> > > > > Language over BASIC for obvious reasons with speed being
> > > > > foremost among them. But I digress...
> > > > >
> > > > > I ended up building a reversing cirucuit with a Tyco 12v DPDT
> > > > > relay capable of 15a / 30 VDC switching. So long as I don't
> > > > > attempt a direction flip that exceeds those max ratings I
> > > > > should be good. I've tested 800 rpm CW - CCW -CW without so
> > > > > much as a batted eye -- it was quite smooth with the delays
> > > > > factored in and all. Quite happy with this setup. I have the
> > > > > added bonus of a semi brake action on the CCW motion. An M5
> > > > > will stop that rotation quite quickly due to the the mc2100
> > > > > power off which kills the slow decell ramp built-in with that
> > > > > board.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now to move on and dial-in the RPM reading in PY Panel. My
> > > > > scale / range is not set right. I can turn the RPM at 50 or
> > > > > less and it shows 200 rpm on the Pypanel.
> > > >
> > > > What do you have for an encoder? Remember, a 50 slot opto disk
> > > > is actually 200 "edges" which is what you may be displaying.
> > > > Depends on the mode the encoder is running in.
> > > >
> > > > > Cheers!
> > > >
> > > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > > > --
> > > > "There are four

Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-19 Thread Dan Henderson 
I have encoder.0.position-scale set to 400 and I have all three phases
A,B,Z enabled as inputs. Me thinks it might have to do with pwmgen.0.scale
or the pwmgen.0.offset. Not entirely sure what those do yet. I believe
scale assumes you know the max rpm the motor will run and sets the
increments accordingly by PWM percentage. I'm not real clear on it. The
command speed of say 1000 rpm is very close to the Pypanel display speed.
Any value below 1000 in the panel is suspect.

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 6:54 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Tuesday 19 May 2020 18:16:49 Dan Henderson wrote:
>
> > The CUI ATM 103. The PPR is set at 100 both on the device and in HAL.
> > I’m not using scale mode since I needed Quadrature in order to detect
> > CCW for rigid tapping.
>
> You should be able to set encoder scale at 400 w/o effecting the
> quadrature direction sensing. But I've no experience with how CUI does
> it.  All the encoders I have built fed either software or mesa in
> quadrature modes. ABX outputs IOW. I've only one commercially made one,
> an omron 1000 line but it's not on the spindle, it's on the motor but
> the index still comes from the spindle.  So the scale changes with the
> backgear. Works well.
>
> > On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 5:03 PM Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 19 May 2020 17:28:40 Dan Henderson wrote:
> > > > Thanks Gene.  I too dabbled in Amiga ARexx back in the day. I was
> > > > / still am a Commodore aficionado. To this day, I have working
> > > > Amiga, C-128, and C64 hardware. I prefer Assembly Language over
> > > > BASIC for obvious reasons with speed being foremost among them.
> > > > But I digress...
> > > >
> > > > I ended up building a reversing cirucuit with a Tyco 12v DPDT
> > > > relay capable of 15a / 30 VDC switching. So long as I don't
> > > > attempt a direction flip that exceeds those max ratings I should
> > > > be good. I've tested 800 rpm CW - CCW -CW without so much as a
> > > > batted eye -- it was quite smooth with the delays factored in and
> > > > all. Quite happy with this setup. I have the added bonus of a semi
> > > > brake action on the CCW motion. An M5 will stop that rotation
> > > > quite quickly due to the the mc2100 power off which kills the slow
> > > > decell ramp built-in with that board.
> > > >
> > > > Now to move on and dial-in the RPM reading in PY Panel. My scale /
> > > > range is not set right. I can turn the RPM at 50 or less and it
> > > > shows 200 rpm on the Pypanel.
> > >
> > > What do you have for an encoder? Remember, a 50 slot opto disk is
> > > actually 200 "edges" which is what you may be displaying. Depends on
> > > the mode the encoder is running in.
> > >
> > > > Cheers!
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > > --
> > > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > > Genes Web page 
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-19 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Tuesday 19 May 2020 18:16:49 Dan Henderson wrote:

> The CUI ATM 103. The PPR is set at 100 both on the device and in HAL.
> I’m not using scale mode since I needed Quadrature in order to detect
> CCW for rigid tapping.

You should be able to set encoder scale at 400 w/o effecting the 
quadrature direction sensing. But I've no experience with how CUI does 
it.  All the encoders I have built fed either software or mesa in 
quadrature modes. ABX outputs IOW. I've only one commercially made one, 
an omron 1000 line but it's not on the spindle, it's on the motor but 
the index still comes from the spindle.  So the scale changes with the 
backgear. Works well.

> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 5:03 PM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Tuesday 19 May 2020 17:28:40 Dan Henderson wrote:
> > > Thanks Gene.  I too dabbled in Amiga ARexx back in the day. I was
> > > / still am a Commodore aficionado. To this day, I have working
> > > Amiga, C-128, and C64 hardware. I prefer Assembly Language over
> > > BASIC for obvious reasons with speed being foremost among them.
> > > But I digress...
> > >
> > > I ended up building a reversing cirucuit with a Tyco 12v DPDT
> > > relay capable of 15a / 30 VDC switching. So long as I don't
> > > attempt a direction flip that exceeds those max ratings I should
> > > be good. I've tested 800 rpm CW - CCW -CW without so much as a
> > > batted eye -- it was quite smooth with the delays factored in and
> > > all. Quite happy with this setup. I have the added bonus of a semi
> > > brake action on the CCW motion. An M5 will stop that rotation
> > > quite quickly due to the the mc2100 power off which kills the slow
> > > decell ramp built-in with that board.
> > >
> > > Now to move on and dial-in the RPM reading in PY Panel. My scale /
> > > range is not set right. I can turn the RPM at 50 or less and it
> > > shows 200 rpm on the Pypanel.
> >
> > What do you have for an encoder? Remember, a 50 slot opto disk is
> > actually 200 "edges" which is what you may be displaying. Depends on
> > the mode the encoder is running in.
> >
> > > Cheers!
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-19 Thread Dan Henderson 
The CUI ATM 103. The PPR is set at 100 both on the device and in HAL. I’m
not using scale mode since I needed Quadrature in order to detect CCW for
rigid tapping.



On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 5:03 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Tuesday 19 May 2020 17:28:40 Dan Henderson wrote:
>
> > Thanks Gene.  I too dabbled in Amiga ARexx back in the day. I was /
> > still am a Commodore aficionado. To this day, I have working Amiga,
> > C-128, and C64 hardware. I prefer Assembly Language over BASIC for
> > obvious reasons with speed being foremost among them. But I digress...
> >
> > I ended up building a reversing cirucuit with a Tyco 12v DPDT relay
> > capable of 15a / 30 VDC switching. So long as I don't attempt a
> > direction flip that exceeds those max ratings I should be good. I've
> > tested 800 rpm CW - CCW -CW without so much as a batted eye -- it was
> > quite smooth with the delays factored in and all. Quite happy with
> > this setup. I have the added bonus of a semi brake action on the CCW
> > motion. An M5 will stop that rotation quite quickly due to the the
> > mc2100 power off which kills the slow decell ramp built-in with that
> > board.
> >
> > Now to move on and dial-in the RPM reading in PY Panel. My scale /
> > range is not set right. I can turn the RPM at 50 or less and it shows
> > 200 rpm on the Pypanel.
>
> What do you have for an encoder? Remember, a 50 slot opto disk is
> actually 200 "edges" which is what you may be displaying. Depends on the
> mode the encoder is running in.
>
> > Cheers!
> >
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-19 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Tuesday 19 May 2020 17:28:40 Dan Henderson wrote:

> Thanks Gene.  I too dabbled in Amiga ARexx back in the day. I was /
> still am a Commodore aficionado. To this day, I have working Amiga,
> C-128, and C64 hardware. I prefer Assembly Language over BASIC for
> obvious reasons with speed being foremost among them. But I digress...
>
> I ended up building a reversing cirucuit with a Tyco 12v DPDT relay
> capable of 15a / 30 VDC switching. So long as I don't attempt a
> direction flip that exceeds those max ratings I should be good. I've
> tested 800 rpm CW - CCW -CW without so much as a batted eye -- it was
> quite smooth with the delays factored in and all. Quite happy with
> this setup. I have the added bonus of a semi brake action on the CCW
> motion. An M5 will stop that rotation quite quickly due to the the
> mc2100 power off which kills the slow decell ramp built-in with that
> board.
>
> Now to move on and dial-in the RPM reading in PY Panel. My scale /
> range is not set right. I can turn the RPM at 50 or less and it shows
> 200 rpm on the Pypanel.

What do you have for an encoder? Remember, a 50 slot opto disk is 
actually 200 "edges" which is what you may be displaying. Depends on the 
mode the encoder is running in.

> Cheers!
>

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


___
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Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-19 Thread Dan Henderson 
Thanks Gene.  I too dabbled in Amiga ARexx back in the day. I was / still
am a Commodore aficionado. To this day, I have working Amiga, C-128, and
C64 hardware. I prefer Assembly Language over BASIC for obvious reasons
with speed being foremost among them. But I digress...

I ended up building a reversing cirucuit with a Tyco 12v DPDT relay capable
of 15a / 30 VDC switching. So long as I don't attempt a direction flip that
exceeds those max ratings I should be good. I've tested 800 rpm CW - CCW
-CW without so much as a batted eye -- it was quite smooth with the delays
factored in and all. Quite happy with this setup. I have the added bonus of
a semi brake action on the CCW motion. An M5 will stop that rotation quite
quickly due to the the mc2100 power off which kills the slow decell ramp
built-in with that board.

Now to move on and dial-in the RPM reading in PY Panel. My scale / range is
not set right. I can turn the RPM at 50 or less and it shows 200 rpm on the
Pypanel.

Cheers!




On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 4:01 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Tuesday 19 May 2020 16:15:31 Dan Henderson wrote:
>
> > Update for everyone. I now have two working relays controlling the
> > operation of the spindle motor via BOB and Parallel Port. I've also
> > now successfully tested the G33.1 Rigid Tapping cycle with this setup.
> >
> > Relay #1 is used to power on/off the motor controller board (MC2100).
> > (M5 or S0 triggers off, M3 or M4 triggers on)
> > Relay #2 is used to reverse the polarity of the spindle motor
> > providing CCW operation. (M4 Triggers on, M3 or M5 triggers off)
> >
> > In order to get these functioning properly, I had to implement two
> > different "timerdelay" functions in HAL.
> > One delay is needed to allow the MC2100 board to power on and
> > initialize before PWM signals are sent.
> >
> > The second delay is needed to slow down the reverse polarity relay in
> > order to ensure the motor controller is properly powered off before
> > allowing the relay to flip back to normal polarity. Otherwise the
> > spindle would flip rotation to cw once triggered.
>
> Glad you have it sorted. :)
>
> > HAL may not be the easiest to understand, but it can do some amazing
> > work if you figure it out!
> >
> I have only found one other language more versatile than hal, arexx on
> the amiga, but it had hooks into the deepest workings of amigados that
> hal will never have. It is IMNSHO, the best language that linux itself
> will tolerate in the same building, very very little it cannot do.
>
> > Thanks for all the help on this thread!
> >
> > Dan
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
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>

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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-19 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Tuesday 19 May 2020 16:15:31 Dan Henderson wrote:

> Update for everyone. I now have two working relays controlling the
> operation of the spindle motor via BOB and Parallel Port. I've also
> now successfully tested the G33.1 Rigid Tapping cycle with this setup.
>
> Relay #1 is used to power on/off the motor controller board (MC2100).
> (M5 or S0 triggers off, M3 or M4 triggers on)
> Relay #2 is used to reverse the polarity of the spindle motor
> providing CCW operation. (M4 Triggers on, M3 or M5 triggers off)
>
> In order to get these functioning properly, I had to implement two
> different "timerdelay" functions in HAL.
> One delay is needed to allow the MC2100 board to power on and
> initialize before PWM signals are sent.
>
> The second delay is needed to slow down the reverse polarity relay in
> order to ensure the motor controller is properly powered off before
> allowing the relay to flip back to normal polarity. Otherwise the
> spindle would flip rotation to cw once triggered.

Glad you have it sorted. :)

> HAL may not be the easiest to understand, but it can do some amazing
> work if you figure it out!
>
I have only found one other language more versatile than hal, arexx on 
the amiga, but it had hooks into the deepest workings of amigados that 
hal will never have. It is IMNSHO, the best language that linux itself 
will tolerate in the same building, very very little it cannot do.
  
> Thanks for all the help on this thread!
>
> Dan


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-19 Thread Dan Henderson 
Update for everyone. I now have two working relays controlling the
operation of the spindle motor via BOB and Parallel Port. I've also now
successfully tested the G33.1 Rigid Tapping cycle with this setup.

Relay #1 is used to power on/off the motor controller board (MC2100). (M5
or S0 triggers off, M3 or M4 triggers on)
Relay #2 is used to reverse the polarity of the spindle motor providing CCW
operation. (M4 Triggers on, M3 or M5 triggers off)

In order to get these functioning properly, I had to implement two
different "timerdelay" functions in HAL.
One delay is needed to allow the MC2100 board to power on and initialize
before PWM signals are sent.

The second delay is needed to slow down the reverse polarity relay in order
to ensure the motor controller is properly powered off before allowing the
relay to flip back to normal polarity. Otherwise the spindle would flip
rotation to cw once triggered.

HAL may not be the easiest to understand, but it can do some amazing work
if you figure it out!

Thanks for all the help on this thread!

Dan



On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:10 PM Dan Henderson  wrote:

> Great idea Andy!
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 6:02 PM andy pugh  wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 18:40, Dan Henderson  wrote:
>>
>> > One BOB requires an external 5v supply the other is able to use a USB
>> port
>> > from the PC for power.
>>
>> You might be able to steal 5V from the second for the first.
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>> lunatics."
>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-15 Thread Dan Henderson 
Great idea Andy!

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 6:02 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 18:40, Dan Henderson  wrote:
>
> > One BOB requires an external 5v supply the other is able to use a USB
> port
> > from the PC for power.
>
> You might be able to steal 5V from the second for the first.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-15 Thread andy pugh 
On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 18:40, Dan Henderson  wrote:

> One BOB requires an external 5v supply the other is able to use a USB port
> from the PC for power.

You might be able to steal 5V from the second for the first.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-15 Thread Dan Henderson 
I have two parallel port cards in the PC and so have the ability to
leverage two BOB's for inputs/outputs.
One BOB requires an external 5v supply the other is able to use a USB port
from the PC for power.

I'm going to bask in this small victory for awhile before attempting
anything else :)

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 10:21 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Friday 15 May 2020 10:49:56 Dan Henderson wrote:
>
> > I now have two working relays with LCNC control via the BOB! Both
> > rated at 10a 28vdc MAX.
>
> That may wind up welded in the on position, those relays should have a
> 250 volt interrupt rating.
>
> > As I mentioned in another thread, I do indeed
> > want to be able to switch polarity of the spindle (low or zero rpm) to
> > achieve CCW rotation. I also want to be able to turn the spindle
> > on/off. Whether it's with these relays or more beefy ones as needed. A
> > 3rd relay may be used to power the coolant or Air blast -- not sure.
> > With two BOB's and parallel ports I have plenty of outputs / inputs
> > available.
> >
> > Just getting LNCC and my hardware to achieve this small success was a
> > breakthrough for me :)
>
> Good. please continue.
>
> [...]
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-15 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Friday 15 May 2020 10:49:56 Dan Henderson wrote:

> I now have two working relays with LCNC control via the BOB! Both
> rated at 10a 28vdc MAX.

That may wind up welded in the on position, those relays should have a 
250 volt interrupt rating.

> As I mentioned in another thread, I do indeed 
> want to be able to switch polarity of the spindle (low or zero rpm) to
> achieve CCW rotation. I also want to be able to turn the spindle
> on/off. Whether it's with these relays or more beefy ones as needed. A
> 3rd relay may be used to power the coolant or Air blast -- not sure.
> With two BOB's and parallel ports I have plenty of outputs / inputs
> available.
>
> Just getting LNCC and my hardware to achieve this small success was a
> breakthrough for me :)

Good. please continue.

[...]

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-15 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Friday 15 May 2020 10:21:26 Dan Henderson wrote:

> Okay, this issue appears to be solved. Of all the boneheaded things I
> might have done and not tested. Apparently the parallel port cable I
> used was either a  "printer cable" or just faulty. Swapping out that
> cable for another solved this issue.

I didn't think of that. But yes. You also haven't disclosed where you are 
getting the 2nd parport to drive the 2nd bob. So I assumed you were 
using something like a mesa 5i25, but be aware if using a 5i25, and 
supplying 5 volts for the bob, that is ONLY valid with mesa 
daughtercards, and will short the 5 volt buss in the computer if used 
with a std bob.  It is fused, with a PTC fuse though.

So you must use a separate small 5 volt supply or the usb cable to power 
the bob(s).

> The current test that confirmed it was with the onboard relay. I
> modified the HAL to use paraport.1.pin-14-out <=
> motion-spindle-reverse (p14 on controls the onboard relay). Viola! The
> relay clicks on with an M4 and clicks off with an M5!
>
> It's hard enough when I'm a complete novice at electronic circuitry,
> but when you have a faulty cable thrown in the mix? My head is
> swimming and attempting a reboot/recovery, lol.

And I keep forgetting that I've been messing with electrical stuff since 
I was about 8 yo, and made my living working with it since I was about 
14, essentially skipping high school. That, and I'm a teacher at heart. 
But I hope that somewhere in my "ravings" is something that will help.

> Thanks for all the assistance!
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:19 AM Dan Henderson  
wrote:
> > Yes, my plan is to use the onboard BOB relay for spindle power
> > on/off.
> >
> > Dr. Lindner's comment regarding open collectors and the need for a
> > pull-up resistor could well solve this riddle.Going to check to see
> > if these are OC next.
> > Gene your way ahead of where I'm at. I'm just taking it a step at a
> > time trying to get a simple external relay to work via the BOB. To
> > be fair, I'm not even getting the onboard relay to click by
> > outputting to pin 14 (relay trigger).
> >
> > Curious if something in my HAL is preventing that from happening? Is
> > my thought pattern of triggering the logic with M4 valid with the
> > spindle-motion-reverse mapped to the output pin specified?
> >
> > On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:08 AM andy pugh  wrote:
> >> On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 13:56, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> >> > If the pix posted yesterday is the external relay in question
> >> > here, its
> >>
> >> a
> >>
> >> > 10 amp rated contacts relay, and coil current to activate that is
> >> > going to be well beyond the bobs ability to deliver the needed
> >> > currant.
> >>
> >> I think that there are extra components on the relay board to
> >> account for that.
> >>
> >> > why not use
> >> > pin 14 of bob-0 which WILL have the boosted current
> >>
> >> Maybe he is using that for spindle on-off?
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> atp
> >> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> >> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils
> >> and lunatics."
> >> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-15 Thread Dan Henderson 
I now have two working relays with LCNC control via the BOB! Both rated at
10a 28vdc MAX. As I mentioned in another thread, I do indeed want to be
able to switch polarity of the spindle (low or zero rpm) to achieve CCW
rotation. I also want to be able to turn the spindle on/off. Whether it's
with these relays or more beefy ones as needed. A 3rd relay may be used to
power the coolant or Air blast -- not sure. With two BOB's and parallel
ports I have plenty of outputs / inputs available.

Just getting LNCC and my hardware to achieve this small success was a
breakthrough for me :)



On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 9:33 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Friday 15 May 2020 09:05:22 andy pugh wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 13:56, Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> > > If the pix posted yesterday is the external relay in question here,
> > > its a 10 amp rated contacts relay, and coil current to activate that
> > > is going to be well beyond the bobs ability to deliver the needed
> > > currant.
> >
> > I think that there are extra components on the relay board to account
> > for that.
>
> There may be, but w/o its schematic we are both guessing.
>
> > > why not use
> > > pin 14 of bob-0 which WILL have the boosted current
> >
> > Maybe he is using that for spindle on-off?
>
> in which case the OP, Dan, still has another identical relay on the 2nd
> bob. He probably needs to use one for on/braking and the other for
> reverse. This isn't quite conventional, but its a far cry from magic.
> I've been there and done that with only one bob and didn't use that bobs
> relay. But even a 2 stage braking relay setup was unable to match what
> I've now done with no relays and one of Jons modified pwm-servo drivers.
>
> hal is NOT hard coded, so use its programmability as needed. Dan still
> has not disclosed (to get my attention at least) what he will be using
> as a controller, and I am trying to offer enough help such that the
> smoke stays in the parts and the mirror is still in one piece.  So I'm
> trying to cover all the bases because I have also BTDT.  Success is
> relative of course, which is why I changed it, nominally alongside
> making that lathes tapered gibs, what, 3 years ago. Both upgrades were
> very worthwhile improvements.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
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>

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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-15 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Friday 15 May 2020 09:19:32 Dan Henderson wrote:

> Yes, my plan is to use the onboard BOB relay for spindle power on/off.
>
> Dr. Lindner's comment regarding open collectors and the need for a
> pull-up resistor could well solve this riddle.Going to check to see if
> these are OC next.

> Gene your way ahead of where I'm at. I'm just taking it a step at a
> time trying to get a simple external relay to work via the BOB. To be
> fair, I'm not even getting the onboard relay to click by outputting to
> pin 14 (relay trigger).

there is usually a flea clip jumper to enable/disable that on the bob, 
but I do not see it on that bob. If you have the usb cable plugged in 
for stiffer power to the board, one setting or the other should enable 
that, but check its output status with an ohmeter, they can be very 
quiet. you should have both the leds behind the usb connector lit, on 
both bobs if following me. 

unforch the google link has expired for the relay gizmo and I didn't save 
it FFR. My bad.
>
> Curious if something in my HAL is preventing that from happening? Is
> my thought pattern of triggering the logic with M4 valid with the
> spindle-motion-reverse mapped to the output pin specified?
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:08 AM andy pugh  wrote:
> > On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 13:56, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > > If the pix posted yesterday is the external relay in question
> > > here, its a 10 amp rated contacts relay, and coil current to
> > > activate that is going to be well beyond the bobs ability to
> > > deliver the needed currant.
> >
> > I think that there are extra components on the relay board to
> > account for that.
> >
> > > why not use
> > > pin 14 of bob-0 which WILL have the boosted current
> >
> > Maybe he is using that for spindle on-off?
> >
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-15 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Friday 15 May 2020 09:05:22 andy pugh wrote:

> On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 13:56, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > If the pix posted yesterday is the external relay in question here,
> > its a 10 amp rated contacts relay, and coil current to activate that
> > is going to be well beyond the bobs ability to deliver the needed
> > currant.
>
> I think that there are extra components on the relay board to account
> for that.

There may be, but w/o its schematic we are both guessing.

> > why not use
> > pin 14 of bob-0 which WILL have the boosted current
>
> Maybe he is using that for spindle on-off?

in which case the OP, Dan, still has another identical relay on the 2nd 
bob. He probably needs to use one for on/braking and the other for 
reverse. This isn't quite conventional, but its a far cry from magic. 
I've been there and done that with only one bob and didn't use that bobs 
relay. But even a 2 stage braking relay setup was unable to match what 
I've now done with no relays and one of Jons modified pwm-servo drivers.

hal is NOT hard coded, so use its programmability as needed. Dan still 
has not disclosed (to get my attention at least) what he will be using 
as a controller, and I am trying to offer enough help such that the 
smoke stays in the parts and the mirror is still in one piece.  So I'm 
trying to cover all the bases because I have also BTDT.  Success is 
relative of course, which is why I changed it, nominally alongside 
making that lathes tapered gibs, what, 3 years ago. Both upgrades were 
very worthwhile improvements.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-15 Thread Dan Henderson 
Okay, this issue appears to be solved. Of all the boneheaded things I might
have done and not tested. Apparently the parallel port cable I used was
either a  "printer cable" or just faulty. Swapping out that cable for
another solved this issue.

The current test that confirmed it was with the onboard relay. I modified
the HAL to use paraport.1.pin-14-out <= motion-spindle-reverse (p14 on
controls the onboard relay). Viola! The relay clicks on with an M4 and
clicks off with an M5!

It's hard enough when I'm a complete novice at electronic circuitry, but
when you have a faulty cable thrown in the mix? My head is swimming and
attempting a reboot/recovery, lol.

Thanks for all the assistance!

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:19 AM Dan Henderson  wrote:

> Yes, my plan is to use the onboard BOB relay for spindle power on/off.
>
> Dr. Lindner's comment regarding open collectors and the need for a pull-up
> resistor could well solve this riddle.Going to check to see if these are OC
> next.
> Gene your way ahead of where I'm at. I'm just taking it a step at a time
> trying to get a simple external relay to work via the BOB. To be fair, I'm
> not even getting the onboard relay to click by outputting to pin 14 (relay
> trigger).
>
> Curious if something in my HAL is preventing that from happening? Is my
> thought pattern of triggering the logic with M4 valid with the
> spindle-motion-reverse mapped to the output pin specified?
>
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:08 AM andy pugh  wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 13:56, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>> >
>> > If the pix posted yesterday is the external relay in question here, its
>> a
>> > 10 amp rated contacts relay, and coil current to activate that is going
>> > to be well beyond the bobs ability to deliver the needed currant.
>>
>> I think that there are extra components on the relay board to account for
>> that.
>>
>> > why not use
>> > pin 14 of bob-0 which WILL have the boosted current
>>
>> Maybe he is using that for spindle on-off?
>>
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>> lunatics."
>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-15 Thread andy pugh 
On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 13:56, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> If the pix posted yesterday is the external relay in question here, its a
> 10 amp rated contacts relay, and coil current to activate that is going
> to be well beyond the bobs ability to deliver the needed currant.

I think that there are extra components on the relay board to account for that.

> why not use
> pin 14 of bob-0 which WILL have the boosted current

Maybe he is using that for spindle on-off?


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-15 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Friday 15 May 2020 07:31:27 Dan Henderson wrote:

> I was just testing any pin. I have two BOB’s connected to two parallel
> ports. All my steppers are working on BOB zero.  No issues with any of
> that. BOB “1” has spindle-motion-reverse => paraport.1.pin-04-out.
> From this BOB I have both + and - 5v going to Inputs of external relay
> along with output of pin 04. By issuing M4, I assumed would get a
> click or trigger from external relay? This could also have been setup
> for coolant/air or any external device. I have not connected anything
> to the business end of the relay. Not sure if that would matter. 
> Also, the BOB is powered by USB not sure if that matters. I have the
> ability to power it with an external 5 volt source as well.
>
If the pix posted yesterday is the external relay in question here, its a 
10 amp rated contacts relay, and coil current to activate that is going 
to be well beyond the bobs ability to deliver the needed currant.

The bob can probably src no more than 4ma at a logic one, and sink not 
more than 16 at a logic 0 before the mini-74 family of chips is 
destroyed. If useing 2 BoBs, you'll have 2 relays available, why not use 
pin 14 of bob-0 which WILL have the boosted current (and flywheel diode 
to protect that logic output from the coils inductance) to drive an 
on-off(off=braking Resistor across motor) relay, and use that on-board 
the bob-1 relay to switch the coil current to a 2nd external relay to 
reverse it, which is big enough for a smallish motor, say half a hp. For 
1hp and up, I'd recommend a bigger relay with 20 amp contacts. A 1hp, at 
its rated voltage, probably 90 volts, will draw very close to 10 amps at 
full load. And if reversed under that load current flow, it will be very 
close to a dead short because its now spinning the wrong direction.

If the controller doesn't have an active current limit, it will likely 
destroy the controller if your hal file does not have the logic to stop 
the motor first before starting it in the other direction. I have 
actually done this in a previous incarnation of my 7x12 lathe which does 
have an external 1hp 90 volt motor and a separate power supply made from 
the power transformer of an old blown up 1500 watt Phase Linear power 
amplifier, which delivers about 124 volts at a 20 amp surge, giving 
nominally 2 hp from that motor, and as I found, more that enough to 
break things if not well controlled by the hal config.

Then I discovered the Pico Systems pwm-servo driver, which removed all 
those relays as its a full 4 quadrant controller that pulls energy back 
out of the motor when slowing or stopping it, running that supply up to 
around 165 volts while stopping the motor, and is very well protected 
from such self destruction with a programable current limit.  A bit of 
hal code to profile the reversals and its happy, not to mention that 
with the dynamic braking, the reversals are done in 25% of the time it 
took with the relays.

Since I useally forget I've put the head in neutral while fooling with 
the workpiece, then starting the motor in neutral, which could overspeed 
the flywheel, potentially exploding it.  That would be poor form.

So now I have code in the hal file that gives it 50 millisec's to output 
an encoder pulse after a start or it shuts the machine down. My "hey 
dummy, put it back in gear" reminder. What is embarrassing is how often 
that code saves me from myself, reminding me my wet ram has reached that 
forgetfull stage at 85+ years :)

Stay well and safe, Dan.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-15 Thread Dr. Andreas O. Lindner 
Hi,

just to make sure, have you checked if your BOB has open collector outputs. If 
so you need to supply a pull-up resistor between output and +5V and the output 
needs to be defined inverted.

Br, Andreas

Dr. Andreas O. Lindner

Lindner TAC

Auhofstraße 11 B / 11
1130 Wien
Austria

Fax: +43 1 877 68 73
Mobil: +43 664 41 24 742

Email: a.lind...@lindner-tac.at
Web: http://www.lindner-tac.at



> Am 15.05.2020 um 13:31 schrieb Dan Henderson :
> 
> I was just testing any pin. I have two BOB’s connected to two parallel
> ports. All my steppers are working on BOB zero.  No issues with any of
> that. BOB “1” has spindle-motion-reverse => paraport.1.pin-04-out. From
> this BOB I have both + and - 5v going to Inputs of external relay along
> with output of pin 04. By issuing M4, I assumed would get a click or
> trigger from external relay? This could also have been setup for
> coolant/air or any external device. I have not connected anything to the
> business end of the relay. Not sure if that would matter.  Also, the BOB is
> powered by USB not sure if that matters. I have the ability to power it
> with an external 5 volt source as well.
> 
> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 3:59 AM andy pugh  wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 01:33, Dan Henderson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello everyone, I have a simple question for you. I’m testing the ability
>>> to trip a simple 5v relay with an output pin from a 5 axis BOB and don’t
>>> seem to be having any luck. I have motion-spindle-reverse mapped to the
>>> output pin (04).
>> 
>> When you say "pin (04)" do you mean parallel port pin 4 or BoB pin 4?
>> BoB Pin 4 is a limit input, connected to parport pin 13, and is an
>> input not an output.
>> 
>> Parallel port pin 4 is connected to the STEPY output, and I suspect
>> you need that for moving your Y axis?
>> (If not, then it probably should work)  It looks like the relay board
>> probably needs a 5V supply in addition to the logic and gnd
>> connections.
>> 
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>> lunatics."
>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-15 Thread Dan Henderson 
I was just testing any pin. I have two BOB’s connected to two parallel
ports. All my steppers are working on BOB zero.  No issues with any of
that. BOB “1” has spindle-motion-reverse => paraport.1.pin-04-out. From
this BOB I have both + and - 5v going to Inputs of external relay along
with output of pin 04. By issuing M4, I assumed would get a click or
trigger from external relay? This could also have been setup for
coolant/air or any external device. I have not connected anything to the
business end of the relay. Not sure if that would matter.  Also, the BOB is
powered by USB not sure if that matters. I have the ability to power it
with an external 5 volt source as well.

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 3:59 AM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 01:33, Dan Henderson  wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone, I have a simple question for you. I’m testing the ability
> > to trip a simple 5v relay with an output pin from a 5 axis BOB and don’t
> > seem to be having any luck. I have motion-spindle-reverse mapped to the
> > output pin (04).
>
> When you say "pin (04)" do you mean parallel port pin 4 or BoB pin 4?
> BoB Pin 4 is a limit input, connected to parport pin 13, and is an
> input not an output.
>
> Parallel port pin 4 is connected to the STEPY output, and I suspect
> you need that for moving your Y axis?
> (If not, then it probably should work)  It looks like the relay board
> probably needs a 5V supply in addition to the logic and gnd
> connections.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-15 Thread andy pugh 
On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 01:33, Dan Henderson  wrote:
>
> Hello everyone, I have a simple question for you. I’m testing the ability
> to trip a simple 5v relay with an output pin from a 5 axis BOB and don’t
> seem to be having any luck. I have motion-spindle-reverse mapped to the
> output pin (04).

When you say "pin (04)" do you mean parallel port pin 4 or BoB pin 4?
BoB Pin 4 is a limit input, connected to parport pin 13, and is an
input not an output.

Parallel port pin 4 is connected to the STEPY output, and I suspect
you need that for moving your Y axis?
(If not, then it probably should work)  It looks like the relay board
probably needs a 5V supply in addition to the logic and gnd
connections.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-14 Thread Chris Albertson 
Sorry about the last reply written before seeing the posted manual.
As Gene points out it is "14" or "4". But also, my guess is you
need to supply 5 volts to the board via either a power supply or a USB
cable.

One why to debug this is to but a voltmeter on the relay coil and
toggle pin 14.  If one end of the coil is at ground, look at the other
end.

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 8:49 PM Chris Albertson
 wrote:
>
> My first guess is that the BoB can't source or sink enough current to
> energize the relay coil.   But we have to know what exact relay, power
> supply, and BoB you have and exactly how they are all connected.
> Could you post a schematic?
>
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 5:33 PM Dan Henderson  wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone, I have a simple question for you. I’m testing the ability
> > to trip a simple 5v relay with an output pin from a 5 axis BOB and don’t
> > seem to be having any luck. I have motion-spindle-reverse mapped to the
> > output pin (04). Was expecting an M4 to go high on the mapped pin and
> > trigger the external relay. I have 5v+, 5v-, and pin 4 wired to the relay
> > input side. What have I done wrong here?
> >
> > ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California


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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-14 Thread Chris Albertson 
My first guess is that the BoB can't source or sink enough current to
energize the relay coil.   But we have to know what exact relay, power
supply, and BoB you have and exactly how they are all connected.
Could you post a schematic?


On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 5:33 PM Dan Henderson  wrote:
>
> Hello everyone, I have a simple question for you. I’m testing the ability
> to trip a simple 5v relay with an output pin from a 5 axis BOB and don’t
> seem to be having any luck. I have motion-spindle-reverse mapped to the
> output pin (04). Was expecting an M4 to go high on the mapped pin and
> trigger the external relay. I have 5v+, 5v-, and pin 4 wired to the relay
> input side. What have I done wrong here?
>
> ___
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--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California


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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-14 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Thursday 14 May 2020 21:15:26 Dan Henderson wrote:

> I’ll do one better by attaching the Chinglish manual. Attached
> Thanks Gene.
> [image: Word Document]
> New type V5 CNC_Interface_Board_LV2.doc
> ?usp=docslist_api=msword>
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:58 PM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Thursday 14 May 2020 20:30:58 Dan Henderson wrote:
> > > Hello everyone, I have a simple question for you. I’m testing the
> > > ability to trip a simple 5v relay with an output pin from a 5 axis
> > > BOB and don’t seem to be having any luck. I have
> > > motion-spindle-reverse mapped to the output pin (04). Was
> > > expecting an M4 to go high on the mapped pin and trigger the
> > > external relay. I have 5v+, 5v-, and pin 4 wired to the relay
> > > input side. What have I done wrong here?
> >

Acc those drawings, the relay is controlled by pin 14's logic output.
So your use of pin 4 is not getting anywhere near the relays coil.  That 
is the first thing you need to change/fix.  The next question then 
becomes, what sort of a spindle controller are you using? To "do it 
right" often demands a controller made to be remote controlled, and TBT 
if considering the re-use of the controller that came with a treadmill 
motor, its lack of finesse at being controlled is going to expose you to 
both dangerous voltages and a difficulty in adequately controlling it 
thats just not worth it.  So what is the motor you wish to control? And 
what controller will you be using?

There are available ways to do it that are designed to be controlled.  
But because there are also as many motor styles there are also 
controllers made for each style of motor.  But they can't be mixed and 
miss-matched.

[...]

Stay well and safe, Dan.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-14 Thread Dan Henderson 
Here’s a pc of the external relay board.

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 8:15 PM Dan Henderson  wrote:

> I’ll do one better by attaching the Chinglish manual. Attached
> Thanks Gene.
> [image: Word Document]
> New type V5 CNC_Interface_Board_LV2.doc
>
> 
>
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:58 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
>> On Thursday 14 May 2020 20:30:58 Dan Henderson wrote:
>>
>> > Hello everyone, I have a simple question for you. I’m testing the
>> > ability to trip a simple 5v relay with an output pin from a 5 axis BOB
>> > and don’t seem to be having any luck. I have motion-spindle-reverse
>> > mapped to the output pin (04). Was expecting an M4 to go high on the
>> > mapped pin and trigger the external relay. I have 5v+, 5v-, and pin 4
>> > wired to the relay input side. What have I done wrong here?
>>
>> Draw us a back of the envelope schematic. scan & post it. As a retired
>> CET I can read that easier than this text. But bear in mind the logic
>> output available is going to be quite a ways from enough current to
>> reliably operate most 5 volt relays as they generally take more current
>> than is available from a straight logic output to operate them. Most
>> BoB's that have a relay, will also have the booster circuitry to operate
>> that relay, but that might not be wired to pin4.  So show us a schematic
>> plz.
>> > ___
>> > Emc-users mailing list
>> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>>
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> --
>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>>  - Louis D. Brandeis
>> Genes Web page 
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-14 Thread Dan Henderson 
I’ll do one better by attaching the Chinglish manual. Attached
Thanks Gene.
[image: Word Document]
New type V5 CNC_Interface_Board_LV2.doc



On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:58 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Thursday 14 May 2020 20:30:58 Dan Henderson wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone, I have a simple question for you. I’m testing the
> > ability to trip a simple 5v relay with an output pin from a 5 axis BOB
> > and don’t seem to be having any luck. I have motion-spindle-reverse
> > mapped to the output pin (04). Was expecting an M4 to go high on the
> > mapped pin and trigger the external relay. I have 5v+, 5v-, and pin 4
> > wired to the relay input side. What have I done wrong here?
>
> Draw us a back of the envelope schematic. scan & post it. As a retired
> CET I can read that easier than this text. But bear in mind the logic
> output available is going to be quite a ways from enough current to
> reliably operate most 5 volt relays as they generally take more current
> than is available from a straight logic output to operate them. Most
> BoB's that have a relay, will also have the booster circuitry to operate
> that relay, but that might not be wired to pin4.  So show us a schematic
> plz.
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Triggering an external relay from a BOB

2020-05-14 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Thursday 14 May 2020 20:30:58 Dan Henderson wrote:

> Hello everyone, I have a simple question for you. I’m testing the
> ability to trip a simple 5v relay with an output pin from a 5 axis BOB
> and don’t seem to be having any luck. I have motion-spindle-reverse
> mapped to the output pin (04). Was expecting an M4 to go high on the
> mapped pin and trigger the external relay. I have 5v+, 5v-, and pin 4
> wired to the relay input side. What have I done wrong here?

Draw us a back of the envelope schematic. scan & post it. As a retired 
CET I can read that easier than this text. But bear in mind the logic 
output available is going to be quite a ways from enough current to 
reliably operate most 5 volt relays as they generally take more current 
than is available from a straight logic output to operate them. Most 
BoB's that have a relay, will also have the booster circuitry to operate 
that relay, but that might not be wired to pin4.  So show us a schematic 
plz.
> ___
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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