Re: [eug-lug]TV input cards
Oh yes I forgot to mention, my card and I think many of the tv tuners have a line out cord, which is meant to patch into [the line-in on] an existing sound card. Rob, have you tried KnoppMyth? I have it downloaded, am having troubles burning iso's, and also haven't tried too hard. Oh well ( = On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:27:32 -0800 Rob Hudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | I got a WinTV 250 card, which supposedly work well, but haven't been | able to get it to work. I didn't try all that hard either, yet. It has | S-Video inputs. Not sure how audio gets in but I'm guessing via the | soundcard. | | http://www.hauppauge.com/html/wintvpvr250_datasheet.htm | | Supposedly there's an ivtv driver I need, and enable some kernel stuff. | Last time I followed a recipe I found it didn't work. I've been meaning | to do it again but priorities... | | I subscribed to the MythTV email list and this was a common question and | had lots of good feedback. I'd look at their archives to get some tips | on cards. They also mention deals or rebates on cards as they come up | usually... | | http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users/ | OR | http://www.gossamer-threads.com/archive/MythTV_C2/Users_F11/ | | -Rob ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]TV input cards
Actually, for KBob's needs, the audio should be coming off the satellite box so tuner and sound capabilities of the TV card are of no concern. All that is actually needed is a capture card that works under linux with S-video or composite inputs and audio will be fed to the line-in on the sound card with a $3 adapter from Radio Hack. --- Ben Barrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh yes I forgot to mention, my card and I think many of the tv tuners have a line out cord, which is meant to patch into [the line-in on] an existing sound card. __ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]TV input cards
On Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 09:48:42AM -0800, Bob Miller wrote: A third is video capture. Capture the current TV show to a disk file. In this scenario, audio is needed, A/V quality is important, and A/V sync is important. A TiVo or another DIRECTV receiver is the source. Once I find a decent card at a decent price, I'll probably buy more than one. I still recommend checking the archives for mjpegtools. Maybe once you narrow down your choices, check the archives for the chipset IDs. I doubt anyone knows more about the cards than the people writing software for them. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]TV input cards
On Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 09:48:42AM -0800, Bob Miller wrote: A third is video capture. Capture the current TV show to a disk file. In this scenario, audio is needed, A/V quality is important, and A/V sync is important. A TiVo or another DIRECTV receiver is the source. MPEG decompression from the TiVo then recompression on PC is very costly in terms of quality. If you're not afraid of what you might learn, I can dig out the TiVo hacks book still in my posession and bring it with me next week (much homework tonight) so that you may investigate the notion of directly transferring captured video. I answered truthfully the TiVo survey about this that I haven't done that, but I didn't say that it was only because I've not had time to install the proper software. ;) ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]TV input cards
On Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 10:15:16PM -0800, Ben Barrett wrote: For Hauppauge and other BT8x8 (BrookTree, which is now Conexant?) chipset cards, which are well-supported, actual features vary. I think the 848 chipsets are full video in and out with tv tuner; the 878 work with a secondary sound chip, which often has an FM audio tuner. It works well, although it can be a little noisy when switching channels... but that might just be the software. (I'm not sure about the 848/849 and 878/879 differences off-hand, either) Actually the tuner is a seperate component, but whatever. =) The 879s do have extra support for FM tuners if your tuner provides the feature. Basically the bttv chipsets handle sound and NTSC/PAL video signals. What is supported and how varies by implementation and the exact chipset used. Example, I've never seen an 848 card which supported seperate chroma/luma inputs (S-Video), so I am not sure that the bt848 does have seperate inputs. Of course, you could still composite the two signals with a few cents worth of isolating components, but it's not true S-Video in that case. Any card with an S-Video port has had a later chipset which I know has seperate chroma and luma pins. I'd read that Hauppauge's PVR cards, which do mpeg-2 encoding in hardware, had some limitation, possibly that they *only* output the mpeg2 stream, as opposed to writing the video itself through the pci bus. I want to find out more about this one; the PVR-250 cards are getting a good bit cheaper now. I think they can support framebuffer output, but the drivers for anything else are kinda weak. Don't trust me on that though. Bob, I think your needs might have been well-covered already, but if I may digress and over-extend the thread: An old school-buddy had told me how he got satellite tv on linux going; it was well-enough developed set of tools, using some older hardware. I'm not sure what cards handle that, but there's even an HDTV tuner pci card out there, which is possibly the cheapest way to get HDTV. If the HDTV card is a bttv-class chipset, color me interested. We even have MacOS X support for those things (though it's a bit beta-quality at the moment..) ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]TV input cards
On Thursday 26 February 2004 12:48 pm, Bob Miller wrote: : Mr O wrote: : Actually, for KBob's needs, the audio should be coming off the : satellite box so tuner and sound capabilities of the TV card are : of no concern. : : Actually, KBob should clarify KBob's needs. What a thought! : : I have a few use scenarios in mind. : : One is for debugging TiVos. In this scenario, I ditch the TV and hook : up the TiVo's video and audio output to the PC. I make the window : very small most of the time (basically I just want to see whether it's : booting/playing live TV/in menus). Sometimes I need to listen to the : audio, but audio through the sound card is fine. that seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do! Ive used my tv tuner card with my old c-64, and c-64 simulator at the same time... it was something to do... : : Another is for the kitchenputer. In this scenario, the computer : screen is used as a TV. A TiVo (or a very long cord from a TiVo in : another room) is the source. Audio through the motherboard sound is : fine. nice... why not wireless? seems to me a laptop with wireless and touch screen would be optimal for that scenario. : : A third is video capture. Capture the current TV show to a disk file. : In this scenario, audio is needed, A/V quality is important, and A/V : sync is important. A TiVo or another DIRECTV receiver is the source. : : Once I find a decent card at a decent price, I'll probably buy more : than one. There are a lot of inexpensive cards that will work fine. I have 2 cards, only one of which works in linux (the other is really old). I have a cheapo $50 unit that will do everything you need, and even comes with a remote conrol. bt chipsets have been supported for years, and it seems to be whats on most tv tuners these days. i dont have, but have heard the ati cards are pretty sweet, but the good ones are well over $100 (last i checked). my (bt based) tuner card was pretty easy to setup, once i had the right settings... heres what i have in my /etc/modules.conf alias char-major-81 bttv #pre-install bttvmodprobe -k tuner #options bttvradio=0 card=38 #options tuner type=8type=8 then all i need to do is load the bttv module (modprobe bttv), and launch tv app (xawtv). in my case, I can only do one of the 2 modes (overlay/preview) cant remember which... anyway the issue isnt linux, its incompatibility with crappy video card (DVD Playback sucks because of this too...) Jamie -- Whip me. Beat me. Make me maintain AIX. -- Stephan Zielinski ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]TV input cards
On Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 09:31:07AM -0800, Ben Barrett wrote: For some reason, I thought that s-video carried audio as well. I've no experience there, so no blood no foul... That wouldn't make much sense given the evolving standards for both. Aside from the PAL vs. NTSC vs. SECAM issue, video currently comes in these major flavors: - Composite (single RCA plug, usually yellow) - S-Video (mini-DIN connector, seperate chroma and luma) - Component video - YCrCb as 3 RCA plugs - RGB (sync on green) - 3 RCA plugs (some pro gear uses BNC) - VGA connector - RGBHV (seperate sync) - 5 RCA plugs (some pro gear uses BNC) - VGA connector These are from worst to best, acutally. The most flexible is the five signal RGB cable since it it gives equal colorspace to the three primary light colors and offers seperate sync for various resolutions and timings. This is basically VGA/SVGA. Older fixed frequency gear (and anything designed to work with today's televisions is fixed frequency) can get by just fine without any vsync signal and depending only on the hsync which is multiplexed into the green wire. Adapters to use old Sun monitors with normal video cards do this multiplexing, and adapters to use multisync monitors on old Suns extract the hsync and use some intelligence to create a vsync. I digress.. YCrCb is interesting because it applies the technique used by broadcast television. When color TVs came out, BW had been established and they wanted compatibility. So, they left the BW signal alone and added the colorburst signal BW TVs didn't even see. Basically, color TVs treat the BW signal as brightness and then use a signal for the difference between the brightness and the red, and another the brightness and the blue. What's left once you subtract these out is green. This leaves you with high green resolution but pretty low red/blue. The Y (Luma) signal contains the brightness and sync, the other two contain the color differences. S-Video is what happens when you combine the two color information lines together into one signal and put the result in a single connector. It's not quite as good as component video, but it's still pretty good. Most say it's good enough. Four pins are used--two signal and two ground. No idea why they adopted a single connector for both, but anyone who remembers the old Commadore 64 color monitor has seen S-Video done as two seperately shielded RCA plugs. Someone just decided to make one connector out of it along the way. Composite is the two S-Video signals mixed, giving you one signal. Short of RF modulation, it's the worst thing you can do to the signal. If you haven't guessed yet, Composite happened when someone decided to not bother to modulate and demodulate the TV signal. S-Video happened when someone decided not to mix Luma and Chroma. YCrCb composite happened when someone else decided to output the signal without mixing the Chroma channels together. RGB simply was what all of these things were before we tried to make them sane for both BW and color. THANKFULLY, Audio is more sane. Sortof. - Analog - Signal level - Line level (what you're used to) - Mic level (weaker, you won't use it, usually needs preamp) - Connector madness - XLR (you won't use this) - RCA (1-6 depending on channels) - Headphone type - Size - 1/4 inch (dying except for mono for musical instruments) - 35 mm (probably only stereo anymore for computers/headphones) - Bizarre sizes and 3+ channels for camcorders and other weirdness - Channels - Mono - Stereo (seperate or combined connector) - Rat's nest of (almost always) RCA plugs for 3, 4, 4.1, 5.1, etc - Digital - Signal conduit - Coaxial copper (RCA plug) - plastic fibre (TOSlink) - Signal type - Stereo PCM - AC3 (basically multi-channel MPEG audio) Currently, non-embarassing AV gear accepts S-Video and stereo RCA. S-Video plus TOSlink patch cables are becoming more common, but I think those won't last because DVD players are making people start to demand component video over S-Video more and more often. TOSlink will win over coax because it's cooler (not because it matters since the signal is already digital) and YCrCb vs. RGB is still up in the air. Both have a strong push behind them. Although DVDs happen to be encoded in the YCrCb format, the playback devices quite often render them to an RGB framebuffer before re-encoding them for display. This is amusingly wasteful, but lossless. ;) So, what are some reasonably good ways to determine how many milliseconds out of sync one's audio and video are? When you figure this out, talk to the people making DVDs. Note that the beginning of Fellowship of the Ring was out of sync in the theatrical DVD. Most weren't terribly annoyed and those who don't work with digital AV didn't even notice. ;) ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL
Re: [eug-lug]TV input cards
Bob Miller ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Mr O wrote: Actually, for KBob's needs, the audio should be coming off the satellite box so tuner and sound capabilities of the TV card are of no concern. Actually, KBob should clarify KBob's needs. Why? What does he know? -- Assured Computing, Inc. When you need to be sure. http://www.assuredcomp.com/ P.O. Box 40814 Eugene, OR 97404 Voice - 541-868-0331 FAX - 541-463-1627 ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]TV input cards
Mr O wrote: Actually, for KBob's needs, the audio should be coming off the satellite box so tuner and sound capabilities of the TV card are of no concern. Actually, KBob should clarify KBob's needs. I have a few use scenarios in mind. One is for debugging TiVos. In this scenario, I ditch the TV and hook up the TiVo's video and audio output to the PC. I make the window very small most of the time (basically I just want to see whether it's booting/playing live TV/in menus). Sometimes I need to listen to the audio, but audio through the sound card is fine. Another is for the kitchenputer. In this scenario, the computer screen is used as a TV. A TiVo (or a very long cord from a TiVo in another room) is the source. Audio through the motherboard sound is fine. A third is video capture. Capture the current TV show to a disk file. In this scenario, audio is needed, A/V quality is important, and A/V sync is important. A TiVo or another DIRECTV receiver is the source. Once I find a decent card at a decent price, I'll probably buy more than one. -- Bob Miller Kbob kbobsoft software consulting http://kbobsoft.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
[eug-lug]TV input cards
I would like to start playing around with a TV input card for Linux. I'm having trouble finding concrete information on cards that work well, so I'm asking here. What TV input cards are you using, and where did you get them? Since we don't have any TV reception here, the source will have to be a DIRECTV receiver. That means that I'd rather use composite video or S-video inputs than RF/coax. Do TV cards have those inputs? If so, do I use the audio in on the sound card, or do they have audio in too? -- Bob Miller Kbob kbobsoft software consulting http://kbobsoft.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]TV input cards
I'm have my satellite plugged into a Hauppauge WinTV-GO model 190 with nVidia GeForce 2 MX 400 and Sound Blaster live Platinum and XawTV. I got them at Circuit City. Sorry Mr. O. I don't watch much TV with it. I mostly listen to music. Mostly. Bob Bob Miller ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I would like to start playing around with a TV input card for Linux. I'm having trouble finding concrete information on cards that work well, so I'm asking here. What TV input cards are you using, and where did you get them? Since we don't have any TV reception here, the source will have to be a DIRECTV receiver. That means that I'd rather use composite video or S-video inputs than RF/coax. Do TV cards have those inputs? If so, do I use the audio in on the sound card, or do they have audio in too? [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Assured Computing, Inc. When you need to be sure. http://www.assuredcomp.com/ P.O. Box 40814 Eugene, OR 97404 Voice - 541-868-0331 FAX - 541-463-1627 ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]TV input cards
Hauppauge. Probably one of the best supported brands under linux. S-Video in and Composite can be done with an adapater into the S-Video. Since you'll be using an external source other than Coax you'll need to run the audio to the line-in on your sound card or piggy back from the Tuner card. Circuit City and/or Best Buy occasionally have Hauppauge. Also check the other large office stores. Otherwise it's off to the internet. That be all, Mr O. --- Bob Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to start playing around with a TV input card for Linux. I'm having trouble finding concrete information on cards that work well, so I'm asking here. What TV input cards are you using, and where did you get them? Since we don't have any TV reception here, the source will have to be a DIRECTV receiver. That means that I'd rather use composite video or S-video inputs than RF/coax. Do TV cards have those inputs? If so, do I use the audio in on the sound card, or do they have audio in too? -- Bob Miller Kbob kbobsoft software consulting http://kbobsoft.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]TV input cards
On Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 08:00:15AM -0800, Bob Miller wrote: I would like to start playing around with a TV input card for Linux. I'm having trouble finding concrete information on cards that work well, so I'm asking here. What TV input cards are you using, and where did you get them? You might want to check out the [EMAIL PROTECTED] archives. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]TV input cards
hop-hog cards are the best, like the early lucent wifi cards. Partly branding, but also simply a good product. Bob, you might be interested in the offerings of http://www.linuxmedialabs.com/ In case you have multiple tuners or external sources, they make some reasonably-priced 4-input cards too ( = I think tldp/linuxdoc has a good rundown in their hardware howto or other docs, which list a number of compatible cards. Also, various particular software (like mythtv, which spearheaded the development of support for the wintv pvr-250 and -350 models under linux AFAIK) will list supported hardware of course. For the record, I've been using a program called xawdecode (or xawdecode2) which is much better than xawtv, but very similar of course. Anyone else making modern use of Athena Widgets out there ?? = ) regards all, Ben If you're not looking for a tuner but just video-in, you have a lot more options availabel to you, as numerous video cards now have that capability and might already be supported. I know the ATI AIW (all in wonder) series has had support for linux for a long time now, although I have yet to get my hands on one of those. I hear really good things about their RF remote! Some new nvidia cards have video in as well, now... On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:00:15 -0800 Bob Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | I would like to start playing around with a TV input card for Linux. | I'm having trouble finding concrete information on cards that work | well, so I'm asking here. What TV input cards are you using, and | where did you get them? | | Since we don't have any TV reception here, the source will have to be | a DIRECTV receiver. That means that I'd rather use composite video or | S-video inputs than RF/coax. Do TV cards have those inputs? If so, | do I use the audio in on the sound card, or do they have audio in too? | ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]TV input cards
On Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 04:32:33PM +, Bob Crandell wrote: I'm have my satellite plugged into a Hauppauge WinTV-GO model 190 with nVidia GeForce 2 MX 400 and Sound Blaster live Platinum and XawTV. I got them at Circuit City. Sorry Mr. O. I don't watch much TV with it. I mostly listen to music. Mostly. The USB WinTV-Go thing isn't so good, but nearly all of the PCI cards work flawlessly in Linux. I think the PVR card might even work pretty well nowadays, but the difference there is that it has its own MPEG-2 encoder which needs extra drivers. I just can't imagine kbob trading his TiVos for a clunky Linux box with a crappy interface. ;) ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]TV input cards
For Hauppauge and other BT8x8 (BrookTree, which is now Conexant?) chipset cards, which are well-supported, actual features vary. I think the 848 chipsets are full video in and out with tv tuner; the 878 work with a secondary sound chip, which often has an FM audio tuner. It works well, although it can be a little noisy when switching channels... but that might just be the software. (I'm not sure about the 848/849 and 878/879 differences off-hand, either) I'd read that Hauppauge's PVR cards, which do mpeg-2 encoding in hardware, had some limitation, possibly that they *only* output the mpeg2 stream, as opposed to writing the video itself through the pci bus. I want to find out more about this one; the PVR-250 cards are getting a good bit cheaper now. Bob, I think your needs might have been well-covered already, but if I may digress and over-extend the thread: An old school-buddy had told me how he got satellite tv on linux going; it was well-enough developed set of tools, using some older hardware. I'm not sure what cards handle that, but there's even an HDTV tuner pci card out there, which is possibly the cheapest way to get HDTV. Links: http://www.metzlerbros.org/bttv.html http://www.exploits.org/v4l/ http://www.thedirks.org/v4l2/ http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Hardware-HOWTO/other.html#AEN13502 ..and of course, some Hot links: http://www.surpluscomputers.com/crd_Aitechtvpci.html $15 - I have no idea if this is supported; please send info. http://www.pcmicrostore.com/PartDetail.aspx?q=b:1482;c:36210;p:10501229 $30 house brand but uses 878A, with FM tuner http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10352390dcaid=1688 $70 AverMedia card with FM tuner, remote (methinks supported) http://store.yahoo.com/software-blowouts/hawiditvtuca.html $170 Hauppauge Digital tuner. I think this does sat? sweet! http://www.axiontech.com/prdt.php?src=PWitem=18055 $90 Hauppauge 848-based editing board (no tuner), 3 firewire ports http://www.pcnation.com/web/details.asp?affid=303item=695014 $70 Hauppauge Theater edition, w/ Dolby Pro surround, remote http://www.softwareandstuff.com/card_cinpro.html $5 ISA card ( = http://www.axiontech.com/prdt.php?src=PWitem=47539 $139 Hauppauge PVR-250 http://www.axiontech.com/prdt.php?src=PWitem=18058 $311 Hauppauge HDTV , dolby, remote ymmv, I've not shopped many of these sites but prices and links are for comparison and reference, ymmv cheers y'all Ben On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:00:15 -0800 Bob Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | I would like to start playing around with a TV input card for Linux. | I'm having trouble finding concrete information on cards that work | well, so I'm asking here. What TV input cards are you using, and | where did you get them? | | Since we don't have any TV reception here, the source will have to be | a DIRECTV receiver. That means that I'd rather use composite video or | S-video inputs than RF/coax. Do TV cards have those inputs? If so, | do I use the audio in on the sound card, or do they have audio in too? ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]TV input cards
I got a WinTV 250 card, which supposedly work well, but haven't been able to get it to work. I didn't try all that hard either, yet. It has S-Video inputs. Not sure how audio gets in but I'm guessing via the soundcard. http://www.hauppauge.com/html/wintvpvr250_datasheet.htm Supposedly there's an ivtv driver I need, and enable some kernel stuff. Last time I followed a recipe I found it didn't work. I've been meaning to do it again but priorities... I subscribed to the MythTV email list and this was a common question and had lots of good feedback. I'd look at their archives to get some tips on cards. They also mention deals or rebates on cards as they come up usually... http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users/ OR http://www.gossamer-threads.com/archive/MythTV_C2/Users_F11/ -Rob On 20040225.0800, Bob Miller said ... I would like to start playing around with a TV input card for Linux. I'm having trouble finding concrete information on cards that work well, so I'm asking here. What TV input cards are you using, and where did you get them? Since we don't have any TV reception here, the source will have to be a DIRECTV receiver. That means that I'd rather use composite video or S-video inputs than RF/coax. Do TV cards have those inputs? If so, do I use the audio in on the sound card, or do they have audio in too? ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]tv...
On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 10:38:21AM -0400, Linux Rocks! wrote: So... watching tv this morning I saw a IBM commercial, thier e-servers they claim for systems that run Linux, and other types too I guess they mean BSD ? AIX and NT probably? ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
[eug-lug]tv...
So... watching tv this morning I saw a IBM commercial, thier e-servers they claim for systems that run Linux, and other types too I guess they mean BSD ? Jamie -- Whoa...I did a 'zcat /vmlinuz /dev/audio' and I think I heard God... -- mikecd on #Linux ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
