via EV
> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2023 9:09 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Cc: EV List Lackey
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 128, Issue 17
>
> On 22 Jun 2023 at 13:27, EV@TucsonEV via EV wrote:
>
> > Since the EVListLackey ?? didn't figure home chargi
I have a Model 3 Performance, and a Maxwell ePro. Almost never do I have
to pay any power bills, as my Solar overproduces, (In fact I get a check
back at true-up). The Maxwell ePro also has its own 1.5kW solar system
built-in, which is good for around 15 miles per/day if it's sunny.
Once in a
On 23 Jun 2023 at 10:18, Jay Summet via EV wrote:
> The cost is subsidized by my local city, a local employer, etc... So it
> would be perfectly feasable to "drive for free" if I was willing to
> drive a few miles and wait to charge.
That's what Margaret did when we first got the Zoe. We
On 6/23/23 09:45, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:
Very interesting that the Chargepoint electricity (10 cents / kWh) is
actually cheaper than your home electricity (13 cents / kWh). Bravo for
Kent and Chargepoint.
I have access to multiple chargepoint EVSE's that are "free" (no cost
for
When I first started charging there back in 2017 it was $0.35/kWhr. I told
them it was cheaper to drive on gasoline and wasn't going to charge. I work at
Ametek who pays for parking at Parta. I believe they negotiated special
pricing for people that pay for the parking garage.
On
On 23 Jun 2023 at 12:46, Rod Hower via EV wrote:
> I have a 2014 Chevy Volt that runs 98% of the time on electric only.I drive
> 21 miles to work and charge at the Kent Central Parking deck using
> ChargePoint with a rate of 0.1 kWhr and I typically use 7 kWhr driving to
> work in the spring,
Maybe others here would like to post their per-mile (or per-km) costs.
David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
2015 Nissan Leaf S getting 4.8 miles per KWH, Duke energy in Florida
(0.14 per kWh) = $0.029 (3 cents per mile of fuel costs...tire costs
are probably more per mile)
I have a 2014 Chevy Volt that runs 98% of the time on electric only.I drive 21
miles to work and charge at the Kent Central Parking deck using ChargePoint
with a rate of 0.1 kWhr and I typically use 7 kWhr driving to work in the
spring, summer and fall, so $0.7 per day.At home I charge on 240V
On 22 Jun 2023 at 13:27, EV@TucsonEV via EV wrote:
> Since the EVListLackey ?? didn't figure home charging, where a vast
> number of EV owners charge, I thought I try and see what the cost is
> with my Eleco here in Tucson TEP ... So my cost per mile was $0.06
Sorry I didn't look at the cost to
cussion List
> Cc: EV List Lackey
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 128, Issue 17
>
> On 21 Jun 2023 at 14:41, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:
>
> > the experience at a Tesla supercharger with Magic dock ...
>
> "Most are $0.49/kWh ... Idle fees, which are charged if the ca
While I'll be the first to be critical of Tesla in a lot of cases, It's
likely the supercharger rates are set to cover the demand fees that are
charged by most utilities. It can easily be tens of thousands of dollars a
day for a supercharger site with 250kW capability.
The rates they charge
On 21 Jun 2023 at 21:11, Jay Summet via EV wrote:
> Ignoring the hybrid fuel cost red hearing (as the hybrid won't get
> 43mgh on the freeway,
Sportage Hybrid: EPA rating: 42 city, 44 highway, 43 combined.
I used the EPA ratings for the EV6, too.
I don't see or smell any herrings here,
On 6/21/23 18:50, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:
At 28mpg (Kia Sportage ICEV), fuel cost per mile = $0.128
At 43mpg (Kia Sportage Hybrid), fuel cost per mile = $0.083
At 29kWh / 100mi (Kia EV6), electricity cost per mile = $0.142
Ignoring the hybrid fuel cost red hearing (as the hybrid
On 21 Jun 2023 at 14:41, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:
> the experience at a Tesla supercharger with Magic dock ...
"Most are $0.49/kWh ... Idle fees, which are charged if the car is left
alone at the charger after being fully charged, are $1.00/minute."
The Kia EV6, tested in the article, is
Looks like the list is throwing away any most my posts with HTML, here's a
retry:
This was a good read and they had a video. It shows how the experience at
a Tesla supercharger with Magic dock is about is good, or maybe even worse
(parking problems) than using another public CCS station:
This was a good read and they had a video. It shows how the experience at
a Tesla supercharger with Magic dock is about is good, or maybe even worse
(parking problems) than using another public CCS station:
So, it's NOT a technical problem - it's a business/licensing issue.
If Ford (or GM) offers enough money, it could happen. (remember,
Standards aren't)
On 6/21/2023 12:47 PM, (-Phil-) wrote:
No. If you read the Official NACS document I linked to a few posts
ago, the ONLY communications
On 6/21/23 15:40, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:
I agree about the invasive logging, which is why I offer the service to
disconnect a Tesla from Tesla's back end. This can be done in degrees, so
no communication, only needed communication, or just no logging/telemetry
(software updates still
There are a lot of paths that "could be made to work". I have
reverse-engineered the legacy supercharger protocol, so I could make an
adapter that would allow charging a non-Tesla EV at a supercharger, and
in-fact, I did this in 2017 for a client, and the owner promptly received a
Just spitballing here...
What about VIN equivalents in the adapter itself or manufacturers building
their charge ports and in-vehicle networking to Tesla specs?
All of this stuff is well over my head, but having written Palm Pilot programs
that interface with mainframe systems, it strikes me
No. If you read the Official NACS document I linked to a few posts ago,
the ONLY communications protocol supported is PLC (DIN 70121), they do not
list the single-wire CAN legacy supercharger protocol in any of these
released documents because they absolutely will not support 3rd party use
of it.
So, Ford, with the Tesla API, can have their newer vehicles control the
Tesla charger.
AND if the existing Ford vehicle has some smarts, and a "smart" adapter,
it could also control the Tesla charger.
Again, I'm talking a major car manufacturer, with a API agreement with
Tesla, making the
I agree about the invasive logging, which is why I offer the service to
disconnect a Tesla from Tesla's back end. This can be done in degrees, so
no communication, only needed communication, or just no logging/telemetry
(software updates still possible).
But Tesla isn't the only one, pretty
On 21 Jun 2023 at 11:37, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:
> The car can also log data from the supercharger and cache it for later
> upload when the car gets back into cell range.
This is what I find unsettling about Teslas. Actually all cars do something
similar now but it could be said that Tesla was
No using the existing supercharging protocol that Tesla uses on all it's
existing fleet, the CAR CONTROLS THE SUPERCHARGER, not the other way
around. All authentication/billing is handled on the CAR SIDE. The
literally is ZERO AUTHENTICATION on the supercharger.
If you don't pay your bill, the
Note that I was talking in terms of a Ford supplied adapter, with a Ford
supplied phone app.
I sincerely doubt that each SuperCharger has an up to date list of every
VIN that Tesla ever produced. So, they MUST talk back to the Tesla
servers to validate the VIN. This means that Ford - who is
Here's a video I made about a year ago on how Tesla charging works. I need
to do another one with updates.
https://youtu.be/0lxxOsLcNQQ
On Wed, Jun 21, 2023 at 10:23 AM (-Phil-) wrote:
> No, but there is no way to bill it. Tesla handles billing on SWCAN
> supercharger protocol by VIN, the car
No, but there is no way to bill it. Tesla handles billing on SWCAN
supercharger protocol by VIN, the car controls the supercharger, there is
no back-end auth. So the only technical way to build such an adapter
would be to spoof a Tesla, and "steal" the power, which is theft of
service, and
So, you are saying that it's technically impossible to build a CCS
adapter that can translate the CCS standard communications to whatever
the current Tesla super chargers have. i.e. Ford Lied about it.
it is physically impossible, even if you have the Ford app that will
work with Tesla
The broken record continues:
Only the superchargers that support CCS signalling native (V4) or the two
(so far) V3 retrofitted with Magic dock will be able to be used by 3rd
party EVs, adapter or not!
It's all right there at 4.5.1 in the "official" Tesla document:
If there isn't one now, there will be soon. Ford has said that their
existing vehicles will be able to use the Tesla stations with an adapter.
On 6/21/2023 1:22 AM, Matt Lacey via EV wrote:
That adapter is the wrong direction (incidentally the only direction
that will work)
going from CCS2
He said supercharger.
Guess he’s saying the charger checks the Vin #.
Would work on home Tesla chargers
Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023, 3:10 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV
wrote:
Chargerman CCS Combo 2 to US Tesla Dual(DC+AC) Adapter - Black
Last item
On 6/20/23 22:51, EV@TucsonEV via EV wrote:
AC Level 2 208 to 240 V AC, 1-phase? 80 A
Per NEC 625
"240 volt" power really has an acceptable range of voltage from 228
volts to 252. (My home regularly sits at 245 volts).
But yes, pulling from one leg of a 3 phase at
of spec with the
J1772 Specifications.
Best regards,
Rush Dougherty
TucsonEV
www.TucsonEV.com
> -Original Message-
> From: EV On Behalf Of John Lussmyer via EV
> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2023 7:23 PM
> To: (-Phil-) via EV
> Cc: John Lussmyer
> Subject: Re: [EVDL]
That adapter is the wrong direction (incidentally the only direction
that will work)
going from CCS2 charge station to US Tesla Car is possible, and what
that adapter is
Going from US Tesla charge station to CCS2 is not, without Tesla
allowing for a legacy mode to be CCS2 compatible
On
Chargerman CCS Combo 2 to US Tesla Dual(DC+AC) Adapter - Black
Last item available
Condition:NewNewQuantity:Last One / 4 soldPrice:US $229.00They are lying? LR
On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 06:33:31 PM PDT, (-Phil-)
wrote:
No, there is no adapter that will allow existing superchargers
From SAE-J1772:
Pic: http://ingineerix.com/pic/?sae-j1772-voltages
On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 9:20 PM (-Phil-) wrote:
> That should never happen! That would be frying a bunch of cars.
>
> On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 7:24 PM John Lussmyer via EV
> wrote:
>
>> I've run into some J1772 stations that
That should never happen! That would be frying a bunch of cars.
On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 7:24 PM John Lussmyer via EV
wrote:
> I've run into some J1772 stations that are 277V. (at least, that's what
> my voltage monitor said.)
>
> On 6/20/2023 6:32 PM, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:
> > I've also
I've run into some J1772 stations that are 277V. (at least, that's what
my voltage monitor said.)
On 6/20/2023 6:32 PM, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:
I've also warned about using Tesla destination chargers, as some are hooked
to 1 leg of 480 3-phase wye, which is 277V nominal which most EVs will not
No, there is no adapter that will allow existing superchargers to charge a
CCS car, and if there ever was it would be illegal and shutdown instantly
by Tesla legal as it would have to be spoofing a Tesla VIN and thus not
paying for the charge.
I feel like a broken record at this point, as I've
It seems to me if there is an adapter available for purchase, that would
qualify Tesla Superchargers. I bought a Tesla Tap to take advantage of Tesla
destination EVSE. CCS drivers could buy this and have ac or dc charging.
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