[EVDL] EVLN: Boosted Boards' designer dies e-skateboarding in SF, CA
'He was somebody who knew everybody and was loved by a lot of people' http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/San-Francisco-designer-falls-dead-on-electric-5641682.php Designer falls dead on electric skateboard in San Francisco by Hamed Aleaziz July 23, 2014 [image / gschnakenberg http://instagram.com/p/oR8237BAbW/embed/# A photograph from George Schnakenberg III's instagram feed from May 2014. He was in Sacramento lobbying for legislation to increase bike and walking safety. ] (07-23) 13:04 PDT SAN FRANCISCO -- A 38-year-old man riding an electric skateboard collapsed and died Tuesday morning in San Francisco's South of Market area, police said. Witnesses reported that Oakland resident George Schnakenberg III appeared to suddenly collapse while riding south on Eighth Street past Brannan Street, said San Francisco police Officer Gordon Shyy, a department spokesman. Schnakenberg was taken to San Francisco General Hospital, where he was later pronounced dead. Shyy said no vehicle was involved in the incident, which remains under investigation. Schnakenberg is the founder of Infinite Collective, a design firm based in Oakland that has worked on alternative energy products, including an electric skateboard, according to online profiles. [© sfgate.com] ... http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Loved-ones-recall-designer-who-collapsed-on-5642351.php Loved ones recall designer who collapsed on skateboard by Hamed Aleaziz July 23, 2014 [image http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/31/23/67/6634961/3/628x471.jpg George Schnakenberg III, 38, collapsed and died riding an electric skateboard Tuesday, July 22, 2014, in San Francisco. Photo: Creator: Olivia Smartt ] (07-23) 16:52 PDT SAN FRANCISCO -- Friends and family are mourning the death of an Oakland product designer who collapsed and died while riding an electric skateboard in San Francisco, three weeks before the expected birth of his first child. George Schnakenberg III, 38, was riding the skateboard on Eighth Street near Brannan Street Tuesday morning when, witnesses told police, he appeared to suddenly collapse ... George was the light of my life and I am so lucky to have had him. His energy was infectious, his creativity was unbounded. George had more ideas than he had time to develop them all, said Joanne Chang, Schnakenberg's wife, in an e-mail. The two were expecting a baby girl next month. I still cannot comprehend that the invention he was most proud of - his daughter - is one he will not get to see, she said. Schnakenberg, a Pittsburgh native, was co-founder and design director at Sollega, Inc., where he helped design the solar equipment that the company manufactures, said chief executive Elie Rothschild. He was just very upbeat, positive, innovative, creative ... a hard worker, really smart, a great designer and just a very good person and good friend, he said. Schnakenberg also founded an Oakland consultancy, Infinite Collective, where he designed several products, including an electric skateboard and bike. He's somebody who knows everybody and is loved by a lot of people, and one of the best designers I've ever met, said John Humphrey, 41, a close friend who lives in New York. A memorial page set up by Schnakenberg's family (bit.ly/1nW1tzt) had raised thousands of dollars by Wednesday afternoon. More than 60 people gave donations, which will benefit his daughter, or posted reflections about Schnakenberg. When we close our eyes, the family wrote, we picture George on his skateboard descending an endless hill, with San Francisco behind him, and his trademark big grin. [© sfgate.com] http://news.kron4.com/news/skateboarder-who-collapsed-while-riding-in-soma-identified/ Skateboarder Who Collapsed While Riding In SoMa Was Founder of Oakland-Based Design Firm By Mario Sevilla Jul 23rd, 2014 [image http://news.kron4.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/George-Schnakenberg.jpg George-Schnakenberg ] SAN FRANCISCO (BCN) — A skateboarder who died after collapsing in San Francisco’s South of Market neighborhood Tuesday morning was the founder of an Oakland-based design company. George Schnakenberg III, 38, of Oakland, was riding a motorized skateboard in a bike lane in the 600 block of Eighth Street around 9 a.m. Tuesday when he suddenly collapsed, San Francisco police spokesman Officer Gordon Shyy said. Shyy said investigators talked to several witnesses who said Schnakenberg fell while riding and may have hit a parked car after the collapse. Police said he was taken to San Francisco General Hospital, where he was pronounced dead. Schnakenberg was the founder and design director of Infinite Collective, an industrial design consultancy firm. According to the company’s website, Schnakenberg started the company in Oakland in 2012 after working in the design industry for the past 15 years. On his LinkedIn profile, he posted photos of products and projects he has designed, including a coffee brewer, bicycles, skateboards, a 3D-printed keychain
[EVDL] EVLN: Tesla CEO Sez A More Expensive 500mi EV 'could be quite soon'
1MWh used for 67hr LA2NY 'Cannonball Run' trans-U.S. Tesla-S EV trip http://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-s-ceo-says-500-mile-range-car-is-possible-84195.html Tesla's CEO Says 500-Mile Range Car Is Possible by Mircea Panait 21st July 2014 [image http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/tesla-s-ceo-says-500-mile-range-car-is-possible-84195_1.jpg (Tesla-S) ] Elon Musk has revealed last week that the upcoming BMW 3 Series-rivaling sedan will be called the Tesla Model III. Expected to be about 20 percent smaller than the Model S and to hold a $35,000 sticker price, the Palo Alto-based carmaker's numero uno dropped a huge piece of info in a recent interview about the possibility of a 500-mile range electric vehicle. Speaking to the Brits from AutoExpress, Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk declared that we could do it quite soon, but it would increase the price. Over time you could expect to have that kind of range. That may seem like boasting at first glance, but Musk told later in the interview that we’re going to keep improving battery technology and even with Model 3 we’ll expect a range of over 200 miles... When asked about how does Tesla achieve a driving range other electric vehicles cannot achieve, Musk has replied that not only the Model S has twice the battery density of the Nissan Leaf, but trumps its competitors at other vital factors including drag coefficient, weight, drivetrain efficiency and rolling resistance ... [© autoevolution.com] ... http://www.gtspirit.com/2014/07/23/tesla-could-create-500-mile-range-electric-car/ Tesla Could Create 500-Mile Range Electric Car ... http://investorplace.com/2014/07/tesla-tsla-stock/ Tesla CEO Says 500-Mile-Range Electric Car Is Not Far Off Jul 23, 2014 | By Karl Utermohlen http://www.hngn.com/articles/36872/20140723/tesla-model-s-used-to-drive-from-california-to-new-york-in-67-hours.htm Tesla Model S Used to Drive From California to New York in 67 Hours By John Nassivera | Jul 23, 2014 [image] (Tesla-S) A team of drivers from Edmunds.com used a Tesla Model S to drive from Redondo Beach, Calif., to New York, N.Y. in 67 hours and 21 minutes, setting a record for cross-country driving. The team made a total of 23 stops at Tesla's charging stations over the course of the 3,331.9-mile trip, according to Fox News. The vehicle was stationary for a total of 14 hours and 40 minutes throughout the trip. The car-shopping website said it broke the previous record set by a driving team from Tesla, which was 76 hours and 5 minutes, the Detroit Free Press reported. There was no backup or support team provided for the drivers, who had to depend on there being enough charging stations to keep the trip going. The car was driven by Edmunds' director of vehicle testing Dan Edmunds and photo editor Kurt Niebuhr, who documented their trip on the company site. They said Tesla was not completely confident the run would be performed to completion, since they were using a charging corridor that the electric car company believed was not finished. Edmunds made the run under the rules of the original Cannonball Run outlaw race. However, the company started at the Portofino Hotel and Marina in Redondo Beach and finished at the Red Ball Parking Garage in Manhattan, the opposite route of the race, Fox News reported. 1.06 Megawatt-hours of electricity, one-tenth of the amount consumed by the average home, were need for Edmunds's drive. Owners of Tesla's cars can use the company's charging network for free, so Edmunds didn't have to pay for the electricity. The Model S has a driving range of over 200 miles. However, a long recharge is needed for the car to store that much energy. As a result, rather than recharging the vehicle in multiple hours, the charging stations fill the batteries with high power in just around an hour, the Detroit Free Press reported. The team drove at an average speed of 63.2 miles per hour throughout the trip, often arriving at the next charging station with just a few miles of range left in the car. The drivers took turns sleeping in the car and ate while the car recharged. [© 2014 Hngn] ... http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/07/22/edmunds-sets-coast-to-coast-driving-record-for-electric-cars/ Edmunds sets coast to coast driving record for electric cars July 22, 2014 For all EVLN posts use: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_pagenode=413529query=evlnsort=date http://www.vancouversun.com/best+events+Vancouver+this+week+July/10056514/story.html veva.bc.ca EVs @ElectraFest! EVent 7/26 10a-4p Concord Pacific Place http://www.automotive-business-review.com/news/general-motors-to-produce-2015-chevrolet-spark-ev-batteries-at-michigan-plant-160714-4318680 GM moving all its EV pack building capabilities in-house http://www.theautofuture.com/2014/07/16/elf-solar-electric-urban-bicycle/ The Elf Solar/Electric Urban Bicycle Raises $226k for Production
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Renault 16ton Electric Delivery Lorry/Truck
It is in Europe! MW On 24 Jul 2014, at 04:01, Al via EV wrote: - Original Message - From: brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 6:17 AM Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: Renault 16ton Electric Delivery Lorry/Truck Since when is Renault renowned for its electric cars? Al Renowned for its electric car range, Renault is now turning its attention to electric lorries, with the new two year trial of experimental fully electric truck, run in association with Speed Distribution Logistique and the prestigious fragrance brand. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: Motor control
You are now WAY beyond my pay grade here. I can only say that IMO any time you have a computer controlling something that acts like a throttle, you want to put a LOT of time into debugging the code, have multiple ways to detect failures, and have multiple ways to shut things down in case something unexpected happens despite all the fail-safes. I don't know of any off-the-shelf solution for what you want to do, though I know that similar things have been done. All the homebrew hybrids I've read about so far (I've surely missed some) were essentially 100% manually controlled. However, I think I mentioned before an Escort wagon hybrid conversion done by a team of university students for a Ford / DOE competition, the Hybrid Electric Vehicle Challenge. This would have been in the early to mid 1990s. It was one of a couple dozen university projects in the competition, but this one stood out because of its sophistication. The students had put quite a lot of effort into making it a push the pedals and steer car. The onboard micro looked at battery SOC and driving conditions, and decided whether and when to start the ICE, and how to balance ICE and motor torque - pretty much what the Volt and Prius Plugin do, but about 15-20 years before. Sorry to say I don't recall who was behind it, and web searches haven't helped much. But anyway, the point is that it CAN be done. I'm kind of shooting in the dark here, but you might try contacting Victor Tikhonov at Metric Mind, and see if he thinks a Brusa drive might be able to do what you want. Victor is the US distributor for Brusa inverters and AC induction motors. Brusa inverters speak CANBUS; maybe that would help you develop the interface you want. One warning, Brusa is a Swiss company and their prices tend to be reminiscent of Swiss watches'. http://www.metricmind.com/about-us/ David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: Motor control
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 11:27 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Jul 23, 2014, at 6:52 PM, Collin Kidder coll...@kkmfg.com wrote: You might keep in mind the GEVCU project which can be purchased from EVTV Ooooh...I like! Currently it works with DMOC645, Brusa, and Coda UQM controllers. What would be involved in support for the typical Curtis or Zilla controllers used with the HPEVS or WarP motors? Could one, for example, reasonably create a generic controller that just put out a digested 5v signal to feed to the controller? It is possible to make it control something like a Curtis or Zilla or WarP controller. As you said, those controllers really want to see a variable voltage 0-5V (well, somewhere within that range like 1-4v) instead of being canbus controlled. The GEVCU hardware is capable of doing PWM output on the digital output pins. This PWM signal could be turned into a more or less steady state analog signal via resistors and capacitors. The values would likely have to be tweaked to make things stable. Really nobody has tried to do this yet. We've mostly been focused on trying to support the higher end OEM controllers we've been getting out of bankrupt companies and salvage. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/5d9f81ff/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] How crazy am I?
There is quite a bit of information here, http://liionbms.com/php/bms_options.php and here, http://liionbms.com/php/bms-selector.php http://liionbms.com/php/battery_modules.php This is the main page that has several different categories listed, including motor controls http://liionbms.com/php/index.php On Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:14 AM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Jul 23, 2014, at 3:45 AM, Ben Apollonio via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On the contrary. Tesla cells discharge at a very LOW current. When you have 85kWh of battery, you only need 3.5C to make 300kW, and C/5 to cruise at 55MPH. Even the 120kW 'supercharger' tops out at about 2C (for the smaller 60kWh battery). I would hazard this is why larger cells are not designed for large currents. RC cars are designed to run for 2 minutes and are trying to maximize power/weight. Most real world applications need more capacity and have to optimize energy/weight, so there's significantly less market for cells at 100Ah and 300C (not to mention that you would then have to find a way to manage 30,000 amps!!). You would seem to be correct. Judging by the battery packs I've found being sold for BEVs at the types of places listed as authorized dealers for Netgain and HPEVS, it looks like the assumption is that you're going to be throwing lots of batteries at the car so you don't need to worry much about individual battery discharge capability. I haven't by any stretch of the imagination done any sort of thorough investigation, but the first pass suggests that something along these lines might be the direction I'd have to head in: http://www.all-battery.com/tenergy3.2v1300mah4.16whlifepo4ifr18650prechargeablebattery-30065.aspx It's a single 18650-sized cell (Wikipedia says that's what the Tesla uses; looks to be a bit bigger than a AA) with a 1.35 Ah capacity. If my math is right, to get to ~10 kWh I'd need 1 kWh / (1.35 Ah * 3.2 V) ~= 2300 cells. Each cell supports up to 10 A continuous discharge...and 23,000 A is not only wy more than I'd need, it sounds positively terrifying. 2300 * 3.2 V ~= 7,400 V, which is again scary overkill -- and, obviously, they'd have to be wired in combinations of series and parallel banks to get that down to a reasonable range. Make the math easy, and do it as 50 packs of 45 batteries each for 144 V, 9.7 kWh, and don't think about it maximum current draw...and ~200 pounds of batteries. And about $9000 in batteries (almost 4x the cost of 144 V of CALB 40 Ah packs), before the cost of the hardware to wire them up and the time that would go into doing the wiring. At that point, what I was thinking of as the advantage of a small pack is long gone. This kind of a n homebrew system still might make more sense for this particular project than an off-the-shelf product, but it would mean a bunch of re-thinking Has anybody here already done this type of research? Is there a graceful way to get to high current capacity with a small pack size? Maybe a different size cell to build the packs from? I'm obviously not an expert on battery technology Thanks again, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140723/295e652d/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/c0d2a649/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: Motor control
On Jul 24, 2014, at 5:41 AM, Collin Kidder coll...@kkmfg.com wrote: We've mostly been focused on trying to support the higher end OEM controllers we've been getting out of bankrupt companies and salvage. Then...can you point me in the direction of a supported controller worth considering for this project, or at least how I'd go about making an intelligent choice? I'm not completely opposed to the idea of pioneering generic 5 V controller support, but it's not my area of expertise, so it likely shouldn't be the only option I consider. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/91fdbba2/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] How crazy am I?
On Jul 24, 2014, at 5:54 AM, Rod Hower rodho...@ameritech.net wrote: This is the main page that has several different categories listed, including motor controls http://liionbms.com/php/index.php Wow -- that is an amazing resource, one that'll keep me quite busy for a while. Thanks! b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/91978ed8/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] leaf blowers
Leafs should be picked up, with a sucking tool (that should be electric) that shreds them for compost purposes. Then the compost can be used on the city's floral arrangements around town. Think for a second a neighborhood where every household had a leaf blower... What a fight that would make! ;-) Yes it is off topic, excuse me to respond Le 2014-07-24 à 00:09, Rush Dougherty via EV ev@lists.evdl.org a écrit : This is a little off subject, but personally I detest Leaf Blowers all they do is push the dirt/leaves into the air and off of your property on to my property. I put it in the same category as littering. Rush www.TucsonEV.com -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 6:16 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: [EVDL] leaf blowers My city (Seattle) is studying leaf blower noise and other mal effects and is interested in the viability of electric powered models. I have the opportunity to help supply them with information and am wondering if anyone has any knowledge or other info on what electric powered models are available and suitable for professional use. Any studies by other jurisdictions, such as a lifetime cost comparison between gas and electric, would be welcome too. Since this is off topic, please respond to me directly. Peri -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev- evdl.org/attachments/20140724/d818c24c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7906 - Release Date: 07/23/14 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] leaf blowers
Even when driving on bridges over San Francisco bay during high wind gusts, my Leaf doesn't seem to get blown around at all. I seriously doubt that some electric (battery or corded) blower will have any effect. Ed On Thu, 24 Jul 2014, Denis Boutet via EV wrote: Leafs should be picked up, with a sucking tool (that should be electric) that shreds them for compost purposes. Then the compost can be used on the city's floral arrangements around town. Think for a second a neighborhood where every household had a leaf blower... What a fight that would make! ;-) Yes it is off topic, excuse me to respond Le 2014-07-24 à 00:09, Rush Dougherty via EV ev@lists.evdl.org a écrit : This is a little off subject, but personally I detest Leaf Blowers all they do is push the dirt/leaves into the air and off of your property on to my property. I put it in the same category as littering. Rush www.TucsonEV.com -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 6:16 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: [EVDL] leaf blowers My city (Seattle) is studying leaf blower noise and other mal effects and is interested in the viability of electric powered models. I have the opportunity to help supply them with information and am wondering if anyone has any knowledge or other info on what electric powered models are available and suitable for professional use. Any studies by other jurisdictions, such as a lifetime cost comparison between gas and electric, would be welcome too. Since this is off topic, please respond to me directly. Peri -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev- evdl.org/attachments/20140724/d818c24c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7906 - Release Date: 07/23/14 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] leaf blowers
So, this discussion is on topic, after all :) -- Original Message -- From: Ed Blackmond via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 24-Jul-14 10:52:13 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] leaf blowers Even when driving on bridges over San Francisco bay during high wind gusts, my Leaf doesn't seem to get blown around at all. I seriously doubt that some electric (battery or corded) blower will have any effect. Ed On Thu, 24 Jul 2014, Denis Boutet via EV wrote: Leafs should be picked up, with a sucking tool (that should be electric) that shreds them for compost purposes. Then the compost can be used on the city's floral arrangements around town. Think for a second a neighborhood where every household had a leaf blower... What a fight that would make! ;-) Yes it is off topic, excuse me to respond Le 2014-07-24 à 00:09, Rush Dougherty via EV ev@lists.evdl.org a écrit : This is a little off subject, but personally I detest Leaf Blowers all they do is push the dirt/leaves into the air and off of your property on to my property. I put it in the same category as littering. Rush www.TucsonEV.com -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 6:16 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: [EVDL] leaf blowers My city (Seattle) is studying leaf blower noise and other mal effects and is interested in the viability of electric powered models. I have the opportunity to help supply them with information and am wondering if anyone has any knowledge or other info on what electric powered models are available and suitable for professional use. Any studies by other jurisdictions, such as a lifetime cost comparison between gas and electric, would be welcome too. Since this is off topic, please respond to me directly. Peri -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev- evdl.org/attachments/20140724/d818c24c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7906 - Release Date: 07/23/14 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Australian team smashes 26-year-old electric car world record - CNET
Sunswift, a solar car racing team from the University of New South Wales, has today broken an electriccar world record that has stood since 1988. The record, overseen by the Federation Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA), measures the average speed of an electric vehicle over a 500km distance on a single charge. http://www.cnet.com/news/australian-team-smashes-26-year-old-electric-car-world-record/#ftag=CAD590a51e b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/bf36c941/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] How crazy am I?
On Jul 22, 2014, at 8:21 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: For example, the CALB 40ah cells I mentioned are rated for a maximum discharge of 2C (80 amps). At 144v, 80a is 11.5kW. Allowing for losses, that's only about 12hp from your motor! I think I may be a bit confused. If a single 40 Ah cell can provide 80 A (for a little while), shouldn't 45 of those 40 Ah cells be able to provide 80 A * 45 = 3600 A? That 80 A would be at 3.2 V for 256 W. All 45 cells would be at 144 V, for 518.4 kW or ~ 500 hp. That's three times the power of the 260 Windsor engine in the car today, and substantially more than you're going to get in a stock muscle car of any era -- and way more than even a pair of AC-50s or WarP 9s is rated for. So...does discharge scale with the number of batteries, or is it limited by the discharge of a single cell? If the former, I should be more than fine with a 45-cell pack of CALB 40 Ah batteries or equivalent. If the latter...I'm likely screwed Thanks, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/f9e034e8/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Australian team smashes 26-year-old electric car world record - CNET
On 07/24/2014 02:53 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote: Sunswift, a solar car racing team from the University of New South Wales, has today broken an electriccar world record that has stood since 1988. The record, overseen by the Federation Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA), measures the average speed of an electric vehicle over a 500km distance on a single charge. http://www.cnet.com/news/australian-team-smashes-26-year-old-electric-car-world-record/#ftag=CAD590a51e As I read it, about 300 miles @ about 60 mph? That's the same ball park as a Tesla S? ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] How crazy am I?
Amps add in parallel, volts add in series. Given your assumptions, you can put 45 of those 40Ah cells can produce 3.2v at 3600A if you arrange them in parallel, but 80 A at 144V if you arrange them in series. But you can't have your cake and eat it too and get 3600A at 144V... On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 5:37 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Jul 22, 2014, at 8:21 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: For example, the CALB 40ah cells I mentioned are rated for a maximum discharge of 2C (80 amps). At 144v, 80a is 11.5kW. Allowing for losses, that's only about 12hp from your motor! I think I may be a bit confused. If a single 40 Ah cell can provide 80 A (for a little while), shouldn't 45 of those 40 Ah cells be able to provide 80 A * 45 = 3600 A? That 80 A would be at 3.2 V for 256 W. All 45 cells would be at 144 V, for 518.4 kW or ~ 500 hp. That's three times the power of the 260 Windsor engine in the car today, and substantially more than you're going to get in a stock muscle car of any era -- and way more than even a pair of AC-50s or WarP 9s is rated for. So...does discharge scale with the number of batteries, or is it limited by the discharge of a single cell? If the former, I should be more than fine with a 45-cell pack of CALB 40 Ah batteries or equivalent. If the latter...I'm likely screwed Thanks, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/f9e034e8/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] How crazy am I?
Ben, I'm not an engineer but I don't think you can add up the amps in a series configuration. If the batteries are connected in series, the same current flows through all of them at the same time (it doesn't spread out the current load). Think of a chain is only as strong as its weakest link - in this case the whole string can only handle 80A amps. If you put 3600 amps through the pack each battery would get that same load at the same time and would fry them all spectacularly! - Peter Flipsen Jr On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Jul 22, 2014, at 8:21 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: For example, the CALB 40ah cells I mentioned are rated for a maximum discharge of 2C (80 amps). At 144v, 80a is 11.5kW. Allowing for losses, that's only about 12hp from your motor! I think I may be a bit confused. If a single 40 Ah cell can provide 80 A (for a little while), shouldn't 45 of those 40 Ah cells be able to provide 80 A * 45 = 3600 A? That 80 A would be at 3.2 V for 256 W. All 45 cells would be at 144 V, for 518.4 kW or ~ 500 hp. That's three times the power of the 260 Windsor engine in the car today, and substantially more than you're going to get in a stock muscle car of any era -- and way more than even a pair of AC-50s or WarP 9s is rated for. So...does discharge scale with the number of batteries, or is it limited by the discharge of a single cell? If the former, I should be more than fine with a 45-cell pack of CALB 40 Ah batteries or equivalent. If the latter...I'm likely screwed Thanks, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/f9e034e8/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/500e1965/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] How crazy am I?
Ben, Are you putting the cells in series or in parallel? 45 cells in parallel will indeed allow you to draw 45 times as much current - but at the same voltage as a single cell (3.2V) 3600A still gives 11kW. If yo uare putting the cells in series, then each cell can only do as much currrent as a single cell and since all cells are stacked, that current runs through *all* the cells, so the same 80A through them all, but at 45 times the voltage of a single cell, so the same 11kW. It is real simple - each cell contributes a certain amount of power: 3.2V x 80A = 256W. So, 45 cells can do 45 times as much power: 45 x 256W = 11.5kW Depending how you wire those cells, they can increase the total voltage by stacking cells in series, or they can increase the current by wiring them in parallel, you can even create a mix of series/parallel, for example 3 strings of 15 series cells for 15 times higher voltage (48V) and 3 times higher current by adding up the currents through the 3 parallel strings for a total of 3x80A = 240A. 48V x 240A = 11.5kW because the power can never be more than the sum of what each cell can deliver... Hope this clarifies, Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via EV Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 2:38 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] How crazy am I? On Jul 22, 2014, at 8:21 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: For example, the CALB 40ah cells I mentioned are rated for a maximum discharge of 2C (80 amps). At 144v, 80a is 11.5kW. Allowing for losses, that's only about 12hp from your motor! I think I may be a bit confused. If a single 40 Ah cell can provide 80 A (for a little while), shouldn't 45 of those 40 Ah cells be able to provide 80 A * 45 = 3600 A? That 80 A would be at 3.2 V for 256 W. All 45 cells would be at 144 V, for 518.4 kW or ~ 500 hp. That's three times the power of the 260 Windsor engine in the car today, and substantially more than you're going to get in a stock muscle car of any era -- and way more than even a pair of AC-50s or WarP 9s is rated for. So...does discharge scale with the number of batteries, or is it limited by the discharge of a single cell? If the former, I should be more than fine with a 45-cell pack of CALB 40 Ah batteries or equivalent. If the latter...I'm likely screwed Thanks, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/f9e0 34e8/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] How crazy am I?
Thanks, Michael, Peter, and Cor. Your explanations are perfect. Now to do some more math and more research b On Jul 24, 2014, at 3:12 PM, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Ben, Are you putting the cells in series or in parallel? 45 cells in parallel will indeed allow you to draw 45 times as much current - but at the same voltage as a single cell (3.2V) 3600A still gives 11kW. If yo uare putting the cells in series, then each cell can only do as much currrent as a single cell and since all cells are stacked, that current runs through *all* the cells, so the same 80A through them all, but at 45 times the voltage of a single cell, so the same 11kW. It is real simple - each cell contributes a certain amount of power: 3.2V x 80A = 256W. So, 45 cells can do 45 times as much power: 45 x 256W = 11.5kW Depending how you wire those cells, they can increase the total voltage by stacking cells in series, or they can increase the current by wiring them in parallel, you can even create a mix of series/parallel, for example 3 strings of 15 series cells for 15 times higher voltage (48V) and 3 times higher current by adding up the currents through the 3 parallel strings for a total of 3x80A = 240A. 48V x 240A = 11.5kW because the power can never be more than the sum of what each cell can deliver... Hope this clarifies, Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via EV Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 2:38 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] How crazy am I? On Jul 22, 2014, at 8:21 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: For example, the CALB 40ah cells I mentioned are rated for a maximum discharge of 2C (80 amps). At 144v, 80a is 11.5kW. Allowing for losses, that's only about 12hp from your motor! I think I may be a bit confused. If a single 40 Ah cell can provide 80 A (for a little while), shouldn't 45 of those 40 Ah cells be able to provide 80 A * 45 = 3600 A? That 80 A would be at 3.2 V for 256 W. All 45 cells would be at 144 V, for 518.4 kW or ~ 500 hp. That's three times the power of the 260 Windsor engine in the car today, and substantially more than you're going to get in a stock muscle car of any era -- and way more than even a pair of AC-50s or WarP 9s is rated for. So...does discharge scale with the number of batteries, or is it limited by the discharge of a single cell? If the former, I should be more than fine with a 45-cell pack of CALB 40 Ah batteries or equivalent. If the latter...I'm likely screwed Thanks, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/f9e0 34e8/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/d8b3b1f3/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] leaf blowers
I've been looking at a Ryobi Lithium powered trimmer to replace the 4-cycle one I have now. It uses the same attachments as the gas powered one. I have a string trimmer and a blade type cutter already that would fit right on. Of course I'd have to get a new string trimmer with it, but then I can sell off the old one, which BTW has only been used for a few hours in the 3 years I've had it. As for leaf blowers, I hate them, it's like make work to push the same pile of leaves all over the place, rather than just picking them up wherever they happen to be. I did buy a corded one, but only because it has a vac attachment and a leaf bag that fits where the blower pipe would have gone. It runs all the leaves through the motor's cooling fan,mwhich has sharp blades to mulch 'em up. I did see the blower pipe the other day, hanging in the garage, unused... On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 11:08 AM, Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: So, this discussion is on topic, after all :) -- Original Message -- From: Ed Blackmond via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 24-Jul-14 10:52:13 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] leaf blowers Even when driving on bridges over San Francisco bay during high wind gusts, my Leaf doesn't seem to get blown around at all. I seriously doubt that some electric (battery or corded) blower will have any effect. Ed On Thu, 24 Jul 2014, Denis Boutet via EV wrote: Leafs should be picked up, with a sucking tool (that should be electric) that shreds them for compost purposes. Then the compost can be used on the city's floral arrangements around town. Think for a second a neighborhood where every household had a leaf blower... What a fight that would make! ;-) Yes it is off topic, excuse me to respond Le 2014-07-24 à 00:09, Rush Dougherty via EV ev@lists.evdl.org a écrit : This is a little off subject, but personally I detest Leaf Blowers all they do is push the dirt/leaves into the air and off of your property on to my property. I put it in the same category as littering. Rush www.TucsonEV.com -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 6:16 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: [EVDL] leaf blowers My city (Seattle) is studying leaf blower noise and other mal effects and is interested in the viability of electric powered models. I have the opportunity to help supply them with information and am wondering if anyone has any knowledge or other info on what electric powered models are available and suitable for professional use. Any studies by other jurisdictions, such as a lifetime cost comparison between gas and electric, would be welcome too. Since this is off topic, please respond to me directly. Peri -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev- evdl.org/attachments/20140724/d818c24c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7906 - Release Date: 07/23/14 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/41bda798/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: batteries
A while ago, I had done some back-of-the-envelope math that told me that I didn't need to worry much about batteries until the time came to actually pick which to buy. Now, thanks to y'all, I'm realizing that this may instead be a show-stopper. To recap, I have a chance to buy a 1964 1/2 Mustang in good shape for not much money. The goal is to get something not unlike the driving experience of a Volt, with an all-electric range of roughly a couple dozen miles and a traditional Prius-style hybrid range limited only by the gas tank. The thought is to replace most or all of the driveshaft with one or more electric motors. My initial calculations were simply to divide system volts (144) by cell volts (3.2), and multiply that number (45) by unit Wh and price and weight and volume and the like. Almost all the options I looked at gave at least 10 kWh for a couple-few grand at a weight less than the average American passenger, so I stopped worrying about it. But I now understand that many of those options would only be capable of putting out 10-15 kW -- an order of magnitude shy of what a pair of 9 motors would be capable of. And what's the point of having electric motors as powerful as the combustion engine if the batteries make them act like a garage door opener? In the research I've done since then, it seems that the only ways to get to something capable of supplying the motors with all they can ask for is either to go with a full-sized battery pack, at much (*much!*) greater cost and weight and volume or to go some exotic homebrew route that'll likely cost at least as much, if not even more. In other words, lacking a relatively inexpensive small battery pack capable of high discharge, there's nothing to be saved by going the hybrid route. It'd still gain the extended range and increased performance, but there'd be none of my anticipated cost or space or weight savings -- quite the contrary. I'm not yet ready to throw in the towel...but it would completely change the dynamic of the project. So...any chance anybody can point me in the direction of a 150 - 200 kW capable battery with at least 7 kWh capacity (10+ kWh preferred) that wouldn't break either the bank or the suspension? I'm willing to put in the time assembling it from cells, but the only cells I've found so far that I've thought might be up to the task would set me back five figures, before any sort of management system or the hardware to package them or the rest. Indeed, these cells: http://www.quallion.com/new-pdf/QLI1250-18650.pdf have pretty much perfect specs but I wouldn't be surprised if enough of them cost as much as an entire Leaf Thanks, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/ed13d309/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: Motor control
Having been involved with the Open Revolt project, I'm a little biased. But I think it would be ideal for this project since you would have access to the source code and hardware schematics. That would allow you to either modify the software or hardware to suit your needs. http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/ReVolt http://www.paulandsabrinasevstuff.com/store/page6.html The kit is 144V/500A and would be suitable for someone of moderate electronics skill. If you're more adventurous, others have made their own power section to handle higher current and voltage, so that's certainly possible. On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Jul 24, 2014, at 5:41 AM, Collin Kidder coll...@kkmfg.com wrote: We've mostly been focused on trying to support the higher end OEM controllers we've been getting out of bankrupt companies and salvage. Then...can you point me in the direction of a supported controller worth considering for this project, or at least how I'd go about making an intelligent choice? I'm not completely opposed to the idea of pioneering generic 5 V controller support, but it's not my area of expertise, so it likely shouldn't be the only option I consider. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/91fdbba2/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/66622380/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: AC or DC?
For your hybrid application, I'd go with the AC. One word: regen -- without it to recharge the battery, hybrid mode is of little benefit; better to just disengage the motor altogether. I get decent performance out of my Porsche 914 with a single 9 DC motor in 3rd gear (although it tops out around 65MPH). It even starts and drives OK in 4th, but the clutch begins to slip. The lower gear ratio Netgain suggests will keep motor speed down, making it easier to to push current when the engine is spinning the crankshaft at higher speeds. However, running slow comes at the expense of the torque multiplication in your gearing; ultimately, you'll be running the motor hot in a low-efficiency region. My Porsche performs as it does because I have a 170V pack and a 1000A Zilla, but each of those drives up the cost complexity. At lower voltage, I'd be much more dependent on the gearing to have any power at speed, and at lower currents, I'd be much more dependent on the gearing to provide starting torque. And when I actually use 2nd-4th gear, it's a lot more fun/powerful throughout. The AC has a better torque profile for a fixed (albeit higher) gear ratio. However, given the rating of the motors, you'll probably need two AC-51's to get decent performance unless they're upstream of the transmission. As for the hybrid mode, I would strongly encourage you to take it incrementally, because the controls will be a challenge and you don't want to be kept off the road while you figure it out. The vacuum sounds like a good idea, but my gut says you'll need inputs from the throttle too. You'll almost certainly require a control processor (possibly Arduino, possibly more powerful). Step 1, IMO, is to make the car work with an EV mode and with an engine-only mode where the electric motor just spins freely. Once you have that working, you can tinker with hybrid control schemes all day long. Frankly, I think it will be a game of diminishing returns. Since you're using the existing engine instead of an undersized one that relies on the electric boost, and since your motor is fixed on the driveshaft (meaning you can't regen without also burning energy in compression braking), I think the fuel efficiency gains will be limited. I would say you should think of it more like a Honda Civic hybrid than like a Chevy Volt/Prius, except it will have the ability to fully disengage the engine for EV-only drive. -Ben On Jul 23, 2014, at 5:02 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I know the question of AC and DC motors is a controversial one, and probably done to death. But if all y'all might humor me, I'd appreciate a bit of guidance on this. To recap, I have a chance to buy a 1964 1/2 Mustang in good shape for not much money. The goal is to get something not unlike the driving experience of a Volt, with an all-electric range of roughly a couple dozen miles and a traditional Prius-style hybrid range limited only by the gas tank. The thought is to replace most or all of the driveshaft with one or more electric motors. I've now spoken with somebody at both HPEVS and Netgain. The guy at HPEVS wasn't exactly enthusiastic about the plan, but thinks it can be done. He recommends a rear differential ratio in the 6:1 range to make an AC-51 not be miserable. That would require a new 9 rear end for the car and a custom transmission geared appropriately taller to keep the combustion engine happy. He doesn't know much about people doing direct drive or hybrid stuff with HPEVS motors. The guy at Netgain was most encouraging, and has done something nearly identical to what I have in mind. He didn't recommend any gearing changes; indeed, he suggested that a higher ratio (3:1 or higher) might be better than stock, instead of the other way 'round. He had many very helpful suggestions, such as ways to couple two motors or to get the electric motor(s) to supply most of the power at low speeds and little power at high speeds, thereby maximizing overall gasoline economy. It seems the beaten path for this type of project is therefore a Netgain DC motor...but I still like the regen capabilities of the AC motors and the reduced maintenance. I'm aware that only limited efficiency gains are available with regen, but I have a secondary concern. When running in hybrid mode, once the batteries get depleted, the car would become a pure-gas vehicle. It'd be nice to instead use the combustion engine to just barely recharge the batteries enough to still provide acceleration assist -- the same way the Prius and the Volt do things. With regen, that should be straightforward. Without, I'm left thinking of kludges such as using the combustion engine's 12 volt system to trickle-charge the electric motor's batteries, and I'm not so sure that's even safe, let alone possible. However, as a practical matter, this might not actually be a concern if a full
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: batteries
Too bad A123 went under. Their cells would have been PERFECT. You could consider the EnerDel high-power modules carried by evolve electrics (and possibly others, but I haven't seen them elsewhere). They're more expensive than CALB/Thundersky but better suited to your application. 32Ah/44V at 160A continuous, 480A for 10 seconds. http://www.enerdel.com/mp320-049-hc-bo-moxie-battery/ http://evolveelectrics.com/power-modules/ You might also try looking into Dow Kokam cells (www.kokam.com). I'm not sure if they only sell to OEM's, but I think they sponsored John Wayland at one point. Similar discharge rates to the enerdel. -Ben On Jul 24, 2014, at 10:50 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: A while ago, I had done some back-of-the-envelope math that told me that I didn't need to worry much about batteries until the time came to actually pick which to buy. Now, thanks to y'all, I'm realizing that this may instead be a show-stopper. To recap, I have a chance to buy a 1964 1/2 Mustang in good shape for not much money. The goal is to get something not unlike the driving experience of a Volt, with an all-electric range of roughly a couple dozen miles and a traditional Prius-style hybrid range limited only by the gas tank. The thought is to replace most or all of the driveshaft with one or more electric motors. My initial calculations were simply to divide system volts (144) by cell volts (3.2), and multiply that number (45) by unit Wh and price and weight and volume and the like. Almost all the options I looked at gave at least 10 kWh for a couple-few grand at a weight less than the average American passenger, so I stopped worrying about it. But I now understand that many of those options would only be capable of putting out 10-15 kW -- an order of magnitude shy of what a pair of 9 motors would be capable of. And what's the point of having electric motors as powerful as the combustion engine if the batteries make them act like a garage door opener? In the research I've done since then, it seems that the only ways to get to something capable of supplying the motors with all they can ask for is either to go with a full-sized battery pack, at much (*much!*) greater cost and weight and volume or to go some exotic homebrew route that'll likely cost at least as much, if not even more. In other words, lacking a relatively inexpensive small battery pack capable of high discharge, there's nothing to be saved by going the hybrid route. It'd still gain the extended range and increased performance, but there'd be none of my anticipated cost or space or weight savings -- quite the contrary. I'm not yet ready to throw in the towel...but it would completely change the dynamic of the project. So...any chance anybody can point me in the direction of a 150 - 200 kW capable battery with at least 7 kWh capacity (10+ kWh preferred) that wouldn't break either the bank or the suspension? I'm willing to put in the time assembling it from cells, but the only cells I've found so far that I've thought might be up to the task would set me back five figures, before any sort of management system or the hardware to package them or the rest. Indeed, these cells: http://www.quallion.com/new-pdf/QLI1250-18650.pdf have pretty much perfect specs but I wouldn't be surprised if enough of them cost as much as an entire Leaf Thanks, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/ed13d309/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: batteries
On 24 Jul 2014 at 23:59, Ben Apollonio via EV wrote: Too bad A123 went under ... You could consider the EnerDel high-power modules ... You might also try looking into Dow Kokam cells (www.kokam.com). ... That's what I was thinking of when I said a while back, If you expect sporty, Mustang-y EV performance, but don't want to carry around much of a battery, you'll need to find some cells designed for high power. I didn't know who was supplying such cells these days. Thanks for posting those names. I think Ben G can build this car. However, I'm not sure he's going to get absolutely everything he wants (range, power, price). As with so many other things : go far, go fast, go cheap : pick two. :-\ David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
