Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
On Apr 6, 2015, at 11:09 AM, Electric Blue auto convertions via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit Even a robotic taxi? For example, in a city you've flown to? b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/f9ab3d6e/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] self driving cars
The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/c4b4c2e5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
According to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, 2013 there were 32,719 fatalities on US roads in 2013. One wonders how many of them could have been prevented if distracted driving was eliminated as a cause. Yes I think even if we don’t get to full self driving in the near future the ability of cars to sense your surroundings and avoid tailgating and the associated rear enders, obstructed vision lane changes and hitting pedestrians who either you don’t notice or they absentmindedly step into traffic. If we get to ‘you can steer’ but you can’t tailgate, can’t run red lights, can’t change lanes with insufficient room etc. the roads will be a lot safer. On another note, as my electric car gives me lots of statistics; one that pop into my head is that my average daily commute speed is about 20mph. Can you imagine a day when self driving cars talked to each other and talked to smart interactions. I might be able to raise my average speed to 25mph and avoid the stress of lane weaving and rushing light and honking at slow drivers :-) Lawrence On Apr 6, 2015, at 1:16 PM, SLPinfo.org via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Clearly the technology needs work, but part of me welcomes them. But I've never been in love with driving. I just want to get to my destination in one piece. As my own senses and reflexes fade with age and having just taken the keys away from an elderly parent who (thankfully) didn't kill anyone in a recent accident, I can see a big portion of the population welcoming the possibility of increased safety on the roads. Peter Flipsen Jr Hillsboro, OR On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 12:32 PM, damon henry via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: All it will take for most people to move over to self driving cars is $5 a month off their insurance :) damon Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 19:07:42 + To: electricb...@embarqmail.com; ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: Re: [EVDL] self driving cars From: ev@lists.evdl.org Yeah, Maybe these same people would accept some sort of artificial intelligence program which would analyse their facebook postingsand social media and automatically vote for them in elections. If they will trust their lives going 70 mph to some computer algorithm by some nameless programmers who work for some corporation (who can't even make a web browser that doesn't fail), why wouldn't they trust a corporation to automatically vote for them? After all...what could go wrong? Am I missing something? From: Electric Blue auto convertions via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 11:09 AM Subject: [EVDL] self driving cars The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/c4b4c2e5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/bfa1b9f5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/2554e844/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/348ab7c7/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
On Apr 6, 2015, at 12:07 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Maybe these same people would accept some sort of artificial intelligence program which would analyse their facebook postingsand social media and automatically vote for them in elections. I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but there's a world of difference between electoral politics and transportation. Do you think people who take taxis or use public transit don't have any interest in voting? If you're taking a taxi or a bus, why would you care if the driver is human or robotic? Would you be okay having a chauffeur drive you in your own car? If so, would you care if the chauffeur is human or robotic? b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/d07967b1/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
Clearly the technology needs work, but part of me welcomes them. But I've never been in love with driving. I just want to get to my destination in one piece. As my own senses and reflexes fade with age and having just taken the keys away from an elderly parent who (thankfully) didn't kill anyone in a recent accident, I can see a big portion of the population welcoming the possibility of increased safety on the roads. Peter Flipsen Jr Hillsboro, OR On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 12:32 PM, damon henry via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: All it will take for most people to move over to self driving cars is $5 a month off their insurance :) damon Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 19:07:42 + To: electricb...@embarqmail.com; ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: Re: [EVDL] self driving cars From: ev@lists.evdl.org Yeah, Maybe these same people would accept some sort of artificial intelligence program which would analyse their facebook postingsand social media and automatically vote for them in elections. If they will trust their lives going 70 mph to some computer algorithm by some nameless programmers who work for some corporation (who can't even make a web browser that doesn't fail), why wouldn't they trust a corporation to automatically vote for them? After all...what could go wrong? Am I missing something? From: Electric Blue auto convertions via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 11:09 AM Subject: [EVDL] self driving cars The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/c4b4c2e5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/bfa1b9f5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/2554e844/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/348ab7c7/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
I think Harbor Freight just announced that their new self driving kit's will be available next summer for $299.95 (not counting the 20% off coupons). It comes with 2 chicago-electric servo's and a hi-tech camera. On top of all that, it comes with a genuine lifetime warranty. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/cfb488d5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
Yeah, Maybe these same people would accept some sort of artificial intelligence program which would analyse their facebook postingsand social media and automatically vote for them in elections. If they will trust their lives going 70 mph to some computer algorithm by some nameless programmers who work for some corporation (who can't even make a web browser that doesn't fail), why wouldn't they trust a corporation to automatically vote for them? After all...what could go wrong? Am I missing something? From: Electric Blue auto convertions via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 11:09 AM Subject: [EVDL] self driving cars The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/c4b4c2e5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/bfa1b9f5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
Maybe this will work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8yE3_Vw144 From: Paul Dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] self driving cars You mean Diebold? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 6, 2015, at 2:07 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Yeah, Maybe these same people would accept some sort of artificial intelligence program which would analyse their facebook postingsand social media and automatically vote for them in elections. If they will trust their lives going 70 mph to some computer algorithm by some nameless programmers who work for some corporation (who can't even make a web browser that doesn't fail), why wouldn't they trust a corporation to automatically vote for them? After all...what could go wrong? Am I missing something? From: Electric Blue auto convertions via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 11:09 AM Subject: [EVDL] self driving cars The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/c4b4c2e5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/bfa1b9f5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150407/e9917f19/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] self driving cars
Let me be frank, even if I was given a self driving car, I would take it to the shooting range and we would have a new target. I want nothing to do with any of that crap. Even if my insurance was free, or they payed me to drive one,,well maybe one way to the shooting range . Thank God there are still 74 Lincoln mk4s around , or 64 caddy converts.. Real cars not some teckno crap that the auto industry has come to. Im old and at my age I can say that LOLOL -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/2a063aee/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
I had not posted much about self-driving or autonomous plugin news-items when compared to the huge amount of news items that are saturated with pieces about them (that I have-to wade through). I do not plan to blast the evdl with these, but it points out that for those few that were in denial about this auto tech happening in their life-time, are now going to have to live with them around. Automakers are copying each others efforts (like a Keeping up with the Joneses management style) banking that the public will demand this ability in all vehicles. IMO I do not think anyone has to shoot the Aton-car or themselves, as in a movie of the future, cars with auto-drive, also had a manual-drive mode: http://pop-verse.com/2013/08/16/10-things-the-film-demolition-man-predicted/ 3) Self-driving Cars Almost all the cars in the film ... are self-driving. With Google leading the charge on self-driving cars the technology is already here. Google’s latest cars have driven over 300,000 miles without an incident. It won’t be long until they are a common sight on our roads and you saw it on Demolition Man first! For those that 'are' interested in this auto-tech: Searching for electric self driving cars found links to explore: http://www.propertycasualty360.com/2015/04/06/look-ma-no-hands-self-driving-vehicles-and-insuran Look, Ma! No hands: Self-driving vehicles and insurance PropertyCasualty360-1 hour ago Attendees sit in the self-driving Mercedes-Benz F 015 concept car at the Mercedes-Benz booth at the International CES Tuesday, Jan. 6, 2015, in Las Vegas. http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2015/04/06/the-evolving-automotive-ecosystem/ The Evolving Automotive Ecosystem Wall Street Journal (blog)-1 hour ago Self-driving cars have commanded our attention in the last few years. ... of the self-driving car, and to improve the range and battery costs of the electric car. Fortune http://seekingalpha.com/article/3052956-tesla-shattering-the-lack-of-demand-myth Tesla: Shattering The Lack Of Demand Myth (TSLA) Seeking Alpha-4 hours ago But aren't other automakers also developing self-driving cars? ... to forge ahead of the pack, partly by virtue of the car being electric powered, and partly by virtue ... https://www.techinasia.com/american-gave-scholarship-launch-car-rental-app/ This American gave up his scholarship in Cambridge to launch a car ... Tech in Asia-10 hours ago Back's two-year-old startup was the first company to receive a self-drive car ... SUVs like Mahindra Scorpio, and even electric cars like the Mahindra Reva E2O. http://www.luxurydaily.com/top-5-brand-moment-from-last-week-2/ Top 5 brand moments from last week Luxury Daily-15 hours ago ... drives attention to Audi's advances in technology for its self-driving car (see story). ... U.S. electric automaker Tesla Motors is supporting ice cream maker Ben ... http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/05/ssangyong-xav-concept-seoul-official/ SsangYong reveals XAV concept in Seoul Autoblog (blog)-Apr 5, 2015 In addition, the self-driving cars currently in development and various mass-produced models, such as the Chairman W, Korando Series, Rexton, and Tivoli, are ... http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/04/05/disruptive-innovation-3-ways-technology-is-changin.aspx Disruptive Innovation: 3 Ways Technology Is Changing How You ... Motley Fool-Apr 5, 2015 For example, self driving cars on highways and interstates could drive much ... 100 years of failing to compete with petro-powered cars, electric vehicles such as ... http://www.wired.com/2015/04/delphi-autonomous-car-cross-country/ This Is Big: A Robo-Car Just Drove Across the Country Wired-Apr 3, 2015 The car did 99 percent of the driving on its own, yielding to the carbon-based life ... may be more advanced than anyone: The tech giant says its self-driving cars ... from the first electric starter (1911), to the first in-dash car radio (1936), to the ... http://www.kdramastars.com/articles/80459/20150404/apple-project-titan.htm Apple Project Titan: Self-Driving Electric Car Excites Car Company ... KDramaStars-Apr 4, 2015 Several rumors have been circulating online that Apple is ready to launch its first car, Project Titan, by 2020. Within five years, the tech giant will be ready to go ... http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2015/04/02/tech-race-propels-carmakers/70871588/ Tech race propels carmakers The Detroit News-Apr 2, 2015 Others are less concerned, but think the perceived threat will hasten automakers' efforts into self-driving technology and electric cars. Apple Inc. wasn't at the ... A search for electric autonomous cars also gave: http://www.autonews.com/article/20150406/OEM02/304069991/aston-martins-palmer-to-address-congress Aston Martin's Palmer to address congress Automotive News-18 hours ago Aston Martin CEO Andy Palmer, who took over at the luxury sports car maker in ... Leaf electric car, the NV200 New York City taxi and the push for autonomous ... http://www.crainsdetroit.com
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
You mean these guys? Electronic Voting | | | | | | | | | | | Electronic Voting | | | | View on www.youtube.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | From: Paul Dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] self driving cars You mean Diebold? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 6, 2015, at 2:07 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Yeah, Maybe these same people would accept some sort of artificial intelligence program which would analyse their facebook postingsand social media and automatically vote for them in elections. If they will trust their lives going 70 mph to some computer algorithm by some nameless programmers who work for some corporation (who can't even make a web browser that doesn't fail), why wouldn't they trust a corporation to automatically vote for them? After all...what could go wrong? Am I missing something? From: Electric Blue auto convertions via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 11:09 AM Subject: [EVDL] self driving cars The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/c4b4c2e5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/bfa1b9f5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/580ef9ea/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] article: Global Electric Car Market Reached 740, 000 Units In 2014
http://sustainnovate.ae/en/innovators-blog/detail/global-electric-car-market-reached-74-units-in-2014 -- *Paul Wujek* p...@rogers.com about http://goo.gl/3jnMdX ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
Here's the elephant in the room that I haven't seen addressed: When a self-driving car is involved in a fatal accident, who pays? Who goes to jail? Depends on whether the car had alcohol in it's fuel beyond the legal limit whether it goes to jail or not. Of course for EV's the car can be charged with assault and battery -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/7d07e10d/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 6:18 PM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Here's the elephant in the room that I haven't seen addressed: When a self-driving car is involved in a fatal accident, who pays? Who goes to jail? I wouldn't want to be in a self-driving car because when (not if) something goes wrong, every personal injury lawyer in the country will be filing lawsuits, against anyone and everyone even remotely involved. Lee's quite right of course. Everyone is speculating on what this is now, what it will evolve into, and generally thinking in broad strokes. But it's the details that will bite hard. Simple sense-and-response control would be just begging for a tragic outcome. And there is no AI system sufficiently advanced to make the right decision in every case. There will be wrong responses, some tragic. Also, if you cede too much control to the system that means you have little control when some glitch becomes a seriously FUBAR situation. Making this work really well would require a massive software validation effort that few companies will do properly. (They frequently have a hard time implementing CANBUS properly.) This is all a perfect example of the four wheel drive analogy - four wheel drive can allow you to do things that are otherwise impossible. But if it is implemented or used improperly, it will only get you deeper into trouble than you might otherwise have been in. Sadly, there will be lawyers that specialize in these cases, and they will make lots of money. There's a far stronger case to be made for using tech in ways where we know it works - sensing what is difficult for humans to perceive, and rapid response. I would welcome an infra-red HUD that would allow me to see in the dark or through fog, dust and blizzards. Or an audible warning that closure rate to the vehicle ahead is too fast. Maybe even automatic braking in that case, but I'd have to try it first. An audible warning that you're about to collide with someone in your blind spot would be good, but a steering correction would NOT be OK. Like if I'm purposely changing lanes into someone because that collision is the lesser of two evils. That's a decision I want to make myself. I'm all for enhancements. But the decisions are mine. AI is simply not up to the task yet. The real test is not when you can show what amazing things a self driving car can do - it's when you throw situations at it trying to make it do the wrong thing and you can't. No one wants to show those test yet, but those are the ones that matter. Chris -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/d52546d5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
Here's the elephant in the room that I haven't seen addressed: When a self-driving car is involved in a fatal accident, who pays? Who goes to jail? I wouldn't want to be in a self-driving car because when (not if) something goes wrong, every personal injury lawyer in the country will be filing lawsuits, against anyone and everyone even remotely involved. -- Sometimes when you innovate, you make mistakes. It is best to admit them quickly and get on with improving your other innovations. (Steve Jobs) -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
You mean Diebold? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 6, 2015, at 2:07 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Yeah, Maybe these same people would accept some sort of artificial intelligence program which would analyse their facebook postingsand social media and automatically vote for them in elections. If they will trust their lives going 70 mph to some computer algorithm by some nameless programmers who work for some corporation (who can't even make a web browser that doesn't fail), why wouldn't they trust a corporation to automatically vote for them? After all...what could go wrong? Am I missing something? From: Electric Blue auto convertions via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 11:09 AM Subject: [EVDL] self driving cars The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/c4b4c2e5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/bfa1b9f5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
All really good points, Chris. I, too, feel more comfortable with the idea of a self driving car where I can still take control if I need to. It's kind of like autopilot in an airplane. It works as programmed but you still have the yoke and other controls. In fact, it's designed so that you can override it with force - it makes the yoke stiff but you can still out muscle it. Similar for your other ideas - various audible or visual warnings for approaching danger - that's kind of like a stall warning or nav aids in a plane. The airplane systems warn but the pilot gets to make a decision on the best maneuver. On the other hand, having autopilot in a plane can work very safely since it is unlikely the plane has to respond to anything suddenly. On the road, though, you could be lulled into complacency and not be ready to take the wheel and react when an emergency occurs or when the system is making a bad decision. So, maybe, having a self driving car with human override isn't any better than a fully self driving car. I don't know. Anyway, if you put a bunch of self driving cars in a demolition derby, will they be able to hit each other? Peri -- Original Message -- From: Chris Tromley via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 06-Apr-15 5:08:03 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] self driving cars On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 6:18 PM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Here's the elephant in the room that I haven't seen addressed: When a self-driving car is involved in a fatal accident, who pays? Who goes to jail? I wouldn't want to be in a self-driving car because when (not if) something goes wrong, every personal injury lawyer in the country will be filing lawsuits, against anyone and everyone even remotely involved. Lee's quite right of course. Everyone is speculating on what this is now, what it will evolve into, and generally thinking in broad strokes. But it's the details that will bite hard. Simple sense-and-response control would be just begging for a tragic outcome. And there is no AI system sufficiently advanced to make the right decision in every case. There will be wrong responses, some tragic. Also, if you cede too much control to the system that means you have little control when some glitch becomes a seriously FUBAR situation. Making this work really well would require a massive software validation effort that few companies will do properly. (They frequently have a hard time implementing CANBUS properly.) This is all a perfect example of the four wheel drive analogy - four wheel drive can allow you to do things that are otherwise impossible. But if it is implemented or used improperly, it will only get you deeper into trouble than you might otherwise have been in. Sadly, there will be lawyers that specialize in these cases, and they will make lots of money. There's a far stronger case to be made for using tech in ways where we know it works - sensing what is difficult for humans to perceive, and rapid response. I would welcome an infra-red HUD that would allow me to see in the dark or through fog, dust and blizzards. Or an audible warning that closure rate to the vehicle ahead is too fast. Maybe even automatic braking in that case, but I'd have to try it first. An audible warning that you're about to collide with someone in your blind spot would be good, but a steering correction would NOT be OK. Like if I'm purposely changing lanes into someone because that collision is the lesser of two evils. That's a decision I want to make myself. I'm all for enhancements. But the decisions are mine. AI is simply not up to the task yet. The real test is not when you can show what amazing things a self driving car can do - it's when you throw situations at it trying to make it do the wrong thing and you can't. No one wants to show those test yet, but those are the ones that matter. Chris -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/d52546d5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] The Tesla Factor: Elon Musk Will Force Auto Industry... GRILLS!
Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: The one sentence that caught my eye: Automakers may be big, lumbering, and risk-averse, but they are not stupid. Well they sure stand-in-line to copy each other's race to the ugliest GRILLS every seen since the Edsal. Is it just me or is the trend now in gas cars to see who can make the biggest and ugliest grill possible? Since EV's hardly need them at all, I wonder what the ideal front end of an EV will look like when we grow out of Grill Chrome as a decoration? Cars have always been more about style than aerodynamics. Aerovironment's Paul MacReady, who designed GM's EV1 electric car said he fought constantly with the GM stylists for function over style. He also said most cars are more streamlined in reverse than going forward. An optimized car design would be shaped more like a bird or airplane, with *no* grille in front -- just a smooth rounded nose, with aerodynamically designed air intakes where needed for engine cooling. -- When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. -- Buckminster Fuller -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
I have driven to many millions of miles to want to drive a single one more. But in this backwards country mass transit is very low priority. As soon as a self driving car is low enough in cost to suit my frugal nature I will have one. I can tell you my 83, and 82 year old parents would be all over DSC if it were available. And frankly, you should be grateful if the did. But they have to get out there in the mix because there is not alternative that makes sense to them. The writing is on the wall. SNIP -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/0ec7173f/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
On Apr 6, 2015, at 5:08 PM, Chris Tromley via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: And there is no AI system sufficiently advanced to make the right decision in every case. Your objections are a classic example of making the perfect the enemy of the good. In order to improve traffic safety, self-driving cars don't have to be perfect; they only have to be better than the average human. And they're already there, especially when you consider that the average human is too-often tired, distracted, drunk, or whatever. Even if everybody in the car is drunk, asleep, texting, legally blind, under the age of ten, or all of the above...the car is still going to drive itself more safely than most humans will when taking the driving test from the DMV. Again, it won't be perfect. It'll just be far, far superior to humans. As to who'll pay when self-driving cars crash...I'm sure it'll be the insurance companies. They'll be quite thrilled with them, as they'll be able to give significant discounts on insurance plans and simultaneously make insane profits because the'll be paying out far less with self-driving cars than with humans. That is, their expenses will drop to a negligible fraction of what they are today even as their income drops not even as much as the advertising lingo of up to 15%! In math...today you might pay them $100 / period and cost them, on average over all drivers, $50. You get a self-driving car, and you now pay them $85...but now you only cost them $5 at most. They've more than doubled their profits. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/9c5592bb/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Ben Goren b...@trumpetpower.com wrote: On Apr 6, 2015, at 5:08 PM, Chris Tromley via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: In order to improve traffic safety, self-driving cars don't have to be perfect; they only have to be better than the average human. I more or less agree with what you're saying - as long as there is still a choice. There are lots of jokes about how everybody thinks they're a highly-skilled driver. But in any population there will be some who are phenomenally more competent than average, and others who at their best are more dangerous behind the wheel than an angry drunk with a gun. Those on the competent side will not take kindly to being stripped of the benefits of their skill and lumped in with the least common denominators. How acceptable this numbers game is depends on where you are on the curve. Maybe this tech will advance to the point where few humans could do better. When that can be demonstrated I'll be a believer. I'm betting this will be one of those technologies that will improve in part as a result lessons learned from tragic outcomes. Many will benefit. A few will pay. Chris -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/1bb82946/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
Very well put Chris. I hope we don't beat this to death as it is somewhat OT. I'll go out on a limb - you will not see full blown use of self driving vehicles any time soon. 10 years maybe, probably more like 25. You heard it here, LOL Al Lee's quite right of course. Everyone is speculating on what this is now, what it will evolve into, and generally thinking in broad strokes. But it's the details that will bite hard. Simple sense-and-response control would be just begging for a tragic outcome. And there is no AI system sufficiently advanced to make the right decision in every case. There will be wrong responses, some tragic. Also, if you cede too much control to the system that means you have little control when some glitch becomes a seriously FUBAR situation. Making this work really well would require a massive software validation effort that few companies will do properly. (They frequently have a hard time implementing CANBUS properly.) This is all a perfect example of the four wheel drive analogy - four wheel drive can allow you to do things that are otherwise impossible. But if it is implemented or used improperly, it will only get you deeper into trouble than you might otherwise have been in. Sadly, there will be lawyers that specialize in these cases, and they will make lots of money. There's a far stronger case to be made for using tech in ways where we know it works - sensing what is difficult for humans to perceive, and rapid response. I would welcome an infra-red HUD that would allow me to see in the dark or through fog, dust and blizzards. Or an audible warning that closure rate to the vehicle ahead is too fast. Maybe even automatic braking in that case, but I'd have to try it first. An audible warning that you're about to collide with someone in your blind spot would be good, but a steering correction would NOT be OK. Like if I'm purposely changing lanes into someone because that collision is the lesser of two evils. That's a decision I want to make myself. I'm all for enhancements. But the decisions are mine. AI is simply not up to the task yet. The real test is not when you can show what amazing things a self driving car can do - it's when you throw situations at it trying to make it do the wrong thing and you can't. No one wants to show those test yet, but those are the ones that matter. Chris -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/d52546d5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
On Apr 6, 2015, at 5:58 PM, Chris Tromley via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I more or less agree with what you're saying - as long as there is still a choice. To be clear: I am most emphatically _*NOT*_ suggesting that all vehicles, or even all new vehicles be roboticized. I'm just suggesting that there're an awful lot of people who do or should want robot cars and that everybody on the road will benefit from such automation. And if you think that there's really a chance that non-robotic cars will be banned...well, just look at guns for comparison. That industry is a tiny pittance compared to the automotive industry, and _far_ more people drive and own cars than own guns. Whatever your stand on gun rights...it should be obvious that any attempts to ban non-robotic cars would fail far more spectacularly than recent attempts to ban guns. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/ed290892/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: EVs available on Amazon.co.jp
'You can’t 'Amazon an EV' in the U.S. but, ?soon?'
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/drive/article/electric-cars-now-available-on-amazon
Electric cars now available on Amazon
1 April 2015
[image
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/assets/uploads/articles/bmw_i3_electric_reuters.JPG
BMW's i3 electric car being unveiled at a motor show in Geneva earlier this
month. – Reuters pic, April 1, 2015
]
First it was books, then household products; now you can buy an electric car
from online shopping giant Amazon.
The Japanese unit of German auto giant BMW on Wednesday started selling its
i3 electric models on Amazon.co.jp.
The high-end automaker's small electric vehicle has been popular in European
and North American markets, but BMW Japan wants to find more customers
through the online retailer, a spokesman said in Tokyo.
We have 46 dealers (which sell the electric model) in Japan, but we hope
this e-selling will cover the entire market more thoroughly, the spokesman
said.
This will widen the sales channel and improve convenience for customers.
So many people are using the website. We would like to research potential
customer groups who may be interested in our products.
Two i3 models are available on Amazon.co.jp, a regular BMW i3 with a range
of 229 kilometres and i3 Range Extender that runs up to 300 kilometres on
one battery charge, the company said.
Customers accustomed to completing their purchases in one click might,
however, be disappointed.
After loading the car into their virtual shopping cart, potential buyers
will have to wait for a phone call from BMW requesting documents proving
they have a parking space and a place to charge the vehicle. – AFP, April 1,
2015.
[© 2015 Edge Insider]
...
http://www.hindustantimes.com/htauto-topstories/amazon-japan-starts-selling-electric-cars/article1-1332818.aspx
Amazon Japan starts selling electric cars
AFP, Tokyo | Apr 01, 2015
http://www.hindustantimes.com//images/2014/11/4c9ba004-ce33-4faf-96ca-0dec0f406a9cwallpaper1.jpg
...
http://clapway.com/2015/04/01/amazon-bmw-electric-cars123/
Amazon Brings BMW Electric Cars To Japan
By William Large | April 1, 2015 ...
While you can’t currently use Amazon to purchase a car in the United States,
that doesn’t mean the possible may not be right around the corner.
http://sxh1b2g2g4f2w04gm2piih1u.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/BMW.i3-660x350.jpg
...
http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Regional/2015/04/02/Amazon-Japan-starts-selling-electric-cars/
Amazon Japan starts selling electric cars
http://www.globalpost.com/article/6503859/2015/04/01/amazon-japan-starts-selling-electric-cars
...
https://www.insidejapantours.com/japan-news/3562/bmw-sells-electric-cars-on-amazon-japan/
BMW sells electric cars on Amazon Japan
2nd April 2015
...
http://customstoday.com.pk/bmw-starts-selling-two-i3-electric-models-bmw-i3-regular-bmw-i3-range-extender-on-amazon/
BMW starts selling Two i3 electric models BMW i3 regular BMW i3 Range
Extender on Amazon
April 3, 2015
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http://www.carscoops.com/2015/03/bmw-ceo-pushes-german-governament-to.html
BMW CEO Pushes German Government To Pick Up Pace in Support of EVs
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/why-german-battery-company-bmz-is-quadrupling-production
bmz-gmbh.de 4x-pack-production betting on repurposing old-EV ones
http://www.dw.de/germany-approves-contentious-road-toll/a-18345291
EVs-exempt from Autobahnen.de road-toll fee-rate=pollution-amount
http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2015/3/25/brotherwood-launches-wheelchair-accessible-ev/55264/
Brotherwood Automobility, e-NV200 Combi wheelchair accessible EV
https://transportevolved.com/2015/03/24/london-cabbies-demand-500-taxi-only-charging-stations-to-meet-tfl-requirements/
London pih Cabbies Demand ‘Taxi-Only’ EVSE To Meet TFL Requirements
+
EVLN: EVSE Networks Need Impartial Third-Party Regulation Or Die
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[EVDL] EVLN: EVSE Networks Need Impartial 3rd-Party Regulation Or Die
https://transportevolved.com/2015/04/01/opinion-why-electric-car-charging-networks-need-impartial-third-party-regulation-or-face-collapse/ Opinion: Why Electric Car Charging Networks Need Impartial, Third-Party Regulation Or Face Collapse April 1, 2015 By Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield [images https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Leaf-Charging-at-the-York-Park-and-Ride-580x435.jpg?dc6b84 Charging stations are great, but how do we improve the reliability of them? https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/IMG_2591-580x435.jpg?dc6b84 Regulation would help ensure that uptime and reliability were pushed up. https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Back-of-the-UGO-ABB-DC-charging-startion-e1404583773279-435x580.jpg?dc6b84 If your charging station fails, who is responsible? And who pays for the inconvenience? https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/kia-soul-ev-charging-580x386.jpg?dc6b84 Paying for charging isn’t always popular, but it does at least make it easier to complain when things aren’t right. https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/2011-nissan-leaf_100435344_l-580x435.jpg?dc6b84 Knowing how much you’re going to pay to charge can help you plan your journeys more effectively. https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Plugging-in-the-CHAdeMO-connector-580x435.jpg?dc6b84 Regulation could make charging in public far more pleasant for all involved. ] All over the world, governmental bodies, agencies, and charities are jumping on the electric vehicle bandwagon. They’re embracing the dawn of the age of the zero emission vehicle with enthusiasm and gusto, helping to install charging point after charging point for the benefit of electric and plug-in hybrid drivers. Thanks to generous grants and financial support from automakers like Nissan, BMW and Volkswagen, we’ve even seen an explosion in rapid charging stations, offering customers with suitably-equipped cars the ability to recharge their cars from empty to 80 percent full in as little as 30 minutes. With the exception of Tesla Motors [NASDAQ:TSLA] — whose Supercharger network is owned and operated by Tesla exclusively for its own customers — the remaining non-Tesla charging stations are owned and operated by a dizzying array of different organisations, companies and municipalities. But while more electric car charging stations is a great thing for encouraging more people behind the wheel of a plug-in car, there’s a global endemic threatening the operation of charging stations and the very future of plug-in cars through poor reliability, a lack of accountability and inconsistent access. We think all three comes from a lack of regulation and accountability among the charging station providers, which is why we think car charging networks need impartial, third party regulation in order to survive. What’s more, we think that regulation needs to happen quickly, or the charging industry faces major collapse. With that in mind, here are three things we think plug-in networks need — and why they can only be regulated by a third party in the interests of true accountability. There’s a possible exception for sites with low-powered 110-volt charging and so-called ‘dumb sockets,’ but we’ll come to that presently. Reliability, Accountability Here’s the biggie. Reliability among electric car charging networks isn’t good enough. And while different networks and even different sites will have wildly different reliability and uptime to neighboring stations a few miles down the road, the lack of reliability is proving a challenge to many users. Here in the UK, we recently visited a location with four different type 2 (level 2) charging stations installed. Of those four, only one was in operation, and the one we tried using inadvertently locked on to our charging cable but failed to provide any power. The emergency out-of-hours helpline — staffed by volunteers from the company in question — tried to be as helpful as they could but couldn’t help us retrieve the stuck cable until the following day. Luckily, some persuasion enabled us to retrieve it. But we’re not alone. Look at any online charging database form the Open Charge Map through to PlugShare, and you’ll see tales of woe from electric vehicle owners around the globe who have found a broken charging station, unresponsive card reader, or simply haven’t been able to get their cars to communicate with the station. It doesn’t matter if you’re in Boston, Lincolnshire or Boston, Massachusetts; Portland, Oregon or Portland, Devon, charging station reliability is a major issue. It’s the same no matter the network too — with perhaps the exception of Tesla’s privately-owned and privately-operated Supercharger network — there are just too many faults across every charging network we’ve looked at, although we note some are worse than others. Worse still, many charging
Re: [EVDL] The Tesla Factor: Elon Musk Will Force Auto Industry To Roll Out Self-Driving Cars Sooner Than You Think - Forbes
Just put a stinking comment on the article, actually. He may be right on the autonomous vehicle issue but when he comes out with nonsense like 'the i8 is challenging the MS as the eco car of choice' you have to take anything else he says with a truck load of salt, let alone a pinch! MW On 6 Apr 2015, at 00:16, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Food for thought: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremyanwyl/2015/04/02/evidence-of-forces-behind-the-tesla-factor-at-this-weeks-new-york-auto-show/?ss=tech I tend to think he's right. I also think that the first long-haul trucking company to adopt self-driving rigs will thereby become the dominant force in that industry. Sure feels like we're at the cusp of a phase change, when all sorts of little things add up in a big and surprising way. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: 8 TransPower Class8 e-trucks wins $9M CEC award
http://www.pennenergy.com/articles/pennenergy/2015/03/power-distribution-transpower-announces-heavy-duty-electric-vehicle-achievements.html TransPower announces heavy-duty electric vehicle achievements March 27, 2015 [image http://www.pennenergy.com/content/dam/Pennenergy/online-articles/2015/March/TransPower%20Truck.JPG (Class8 e-semi-truck) ] Transportation Power ... announced today that it has achieved several significant new milestones in its development of battery-electric ... propulsion technologies for heavy-duty vehicles including trucks, tractors, and buses. Two of these milestones occurred the day before yesterday, when TransPower conducted a demonstration of four fully functional battery-electric Class 8 trucks, just hours after the California Energy Commission (CEC) announced its award of nearly $9 million to TransPower for new electric truck and tractor demonstration projects throughout the state of California. We are especially proud of the fact that we drove all four of these trucks from the heart of San Diego County 110 miles to the Los Angeles-Long Beach port region, said Mike Simon, President CEO of TransPower. These four trucks have made more than ten intercity trips of about 80 to 120 miles over the past year and we believe our battery-electric vehicles are the only proven, fully operational zero emission trucks in the world capable of hauling loads up to the Class 8 truck limit of 80,000 pounds. The four trucks demonstrated yesterday were also partially funded by the CEC, with contributions from the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE), South Coast Air Quality Management District (AQMD), and Ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles. Representatives from these agencies traveled to Rancho Dominguez for a Ride Drive event featuring the TransPower trucks at the headquarters of Total Transportation Services, Inc. (TTSI), one of five private California firms presently utilizing Class 8 TransPower electric trucks or tractors in day-to-day service. TransPower's success in deploying electric trucks and tractors that operate reliably under real-world conditions was likely a factor in the CEC's announcement that TransPower will receive funding for three new truck and tractor demonstration projects. These new projects, expected to begin by this summer and to result in new vehicle deployments by next year, include: A collaboration with four operators of yard tractor fleets – IKEA, Harris Ranch, Grimmway Farms, and Devine Intermodal – to deploy five battery-electric yard tractors in California's Central Valley and Sacramento. Five new tractors will be distributed among these fleets, augmenting five similar tractors TransPower built in 2014, which are currently being operated by fleet operators such as IKEA, Dole Fresh Fruits, and SA Recycling. TransPower's proposal for the new tractor demonstration was the highest ranked proposal of 33 proposals received by the CEC for funding under its Medium- and Heavy-Duty Advanced Vehicle Technology Demonstration program. A project to demonstrate two additional electric tractors with Dole at the Port of San Diego, along with electric drayage trucks to be operated at the Port of San Diego by BAE Systems and Terminalift. This project will also involve the upgrade of a large battery-operated reach stacker vehicle which TransPower built with funding from Terminalift in 2014. This proposal was ranked third among the 33 proposals reviewed by the CEC. A project to install TransPower's battery-electric truck system into a demonstration fleet of three refuse trucks. Two of these trucks will be operated by the County of Sacramento and the third will be operated by a major waste hauling firm to be named later. This proposal was ranked fourth among the 33 funding requests received by the CEC. These new contracts continue a string of recent TransPower successes in acquiring funding to support its electric vehicle research, manufacturing, and demonstration projects... Earlier this month, the Ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles, along with the AQMD, approved additional funding for TransPower's largest current electric truck project, which will expand TransPower's present battery-electric truck fleet from four trucks to seven by the end of this summer. In late February, TransPower received a separate grant award from the CEC to fund expansion of its electric vehicle manufacturing facilities in California. TransPower expects to soon receive another contract award, to expand its development and deployment of electric trucks with natural gas-fueled range extenders. The total value of these new contract awards is more than $16.1 million, and they will increase TransPower's current funded backlog to more than $21 million. TransPower believes these recent successes may soon lead to even larger investments in zero-emission heavy-duty vehicles. Our accomplishments create a strong foundation for deploying the larger fleets of trucks and buses we expect to be funded later this
Re: [EVDL] The Tesla Factor: Elon Musk Will Force Auto Industry To Roll Out Self-Driving Cars Sooner Than You Think - Forbes
i commented and pointed out the i8 gets a masssive 15 miles electric On Mon, 4/6/15, Martin WINLOW via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Subject: Re: [EVDL] The Tesla Factor: Elon Musk Will Force Auto Industry To Roll Out Self-Driving Cars Sooner Than You Think - Forbes To: EVDL Post Message ev@lists.evdl.org Date: Monday, April 6, 2015, 3:47 AM Just put a stinking comment on the article, actually. He may be right on the autonomous vehicle issue but when he comes out with nonsense like 'the i8 is challenging the MS as the eco car of choice' you have to take anything else he says with a truck load of salt, let alone a pinch! MW On 6 Apr 2015, at 00:16, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Food for thought: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremyanwyl/2015/04/02/evidence-of-forces-behind-the-tesla-factor-at-this-weeks-new-york-auto-show/?ss=tech I tend to think he's right. I also think that the first long-haul trucking company to adopt self-driving rigs will thereby become the dominant force in that industry. Sure feels like we're at the cusp of a phase change, when all sorts of little things add up in a big and surprising way. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] The Tesla Factor: Elon Musk Will Force Auto Industry To Roll Out Self-Driving Cars Sooner Than You Think - Forbes
Well said Martin, The i8 is a sheep in wolves clothing. It is a very advanced body with a backward step regarding its drive. How can such a light car use more fuel then my Ampera when in ICE mode! Now a fully electric i8 would be of serious interest. On Mon, 6/4/15, Martin WINLOW via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Subject: Re: [EVDL] The Tesla Factor: Elon Musk Will Force Auto Industry To Roll Out Self-Driving Cars Sooner Than You Think - Forbes To: EVDL Post Message ev@lists.evdl.org Date: Monday, 6 April, 2015, 8:47 Just put a stinking comment on the article, actually. He may be right on the autonomous vehicle issue but when he comes out with nonsense like 'the i8 is challenging the MS as the eco car of choice' you have to take anything else he says with a truck load of salt, let alone a pinch! MW On 6 Apr 2015, at 00:16, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Food for thought: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremyanwyl/2015/04/02/evidence-of-forces-behind-the-tesla-factor-at-this-weeks-new-york-auto-show/?ss=tech I tend to think he's right. I also think that the first long-haul trucking company to adopt self-driving rigs will thereby become the dominant force in that industry. Sure feels like we're at the cusp of a phase change, when all sorts of little things add up in a big and surprising way. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EVSE Networks Need Impartial 3rd-Party Regulation Or Die
As liberal as I am, I think giving capitalism a 2nd try is a better approach. The author goes overboard with regulation. He's right on many of the points but, don't you think, some are more important than others: - reliability - payment method He also misses at least two vital issues: - availability - compatibility For availability, I'm referring to whether you will find a ESVE when you need one. Do they exist close enough together along the highways? Is someone already using the ESVE when you arrive? For compatibility, I'm talking about the connecter, hand shake, and power levels. Do we need J1772? Something else? What about planning for the future and installing Tesla-like superchargers? For me, reliability and the latter two are the show stoppers. I despise having to belong to multiple clubs to use ESVEs. And I would prefer to pay something only a bit more than my at-home charging costs. But, unless I'm using an ESVE every day, I probably can put up with those issues for now. What I can't put up with is not finding an ESVE or finding that it's broken or in use. Or one that won't work with my vehicle. Maybe I should coin the term ESVE-anxiety :) If we're going to have regulations, we need to address reliability, availability, and compatibility. Let's get that right and give some time to capitalism to see what happens with pricing, membership, and payment methods. Peri -- Original Message -- From: brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 06-Apr-15 1:59:41 AM Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: EVSE Networks Need Impartial 3rd-Party Regulation Or Die https://transportevolved.com/2015/04/01/opinion-why-electric-car-charging-networks-need-impartial-third-party-regulation-or-face-collapse/ Opinion: Why Electric Car Charging Networks Need Impartial, Third-Party Regulation Or Face Collapse April 1, 2015 By Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield [images https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Leaf-Charging-at-the-York-Park-and-Ride-580x435.jpg?dc6b84 Charging stations are great, but how do we improve the reliability of them? https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/IMG_2591-580x435.jpg?dc6b84 Regulation would help ensure that uptime and reliability were pushed up. https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Back-of-the-UGO-ABB-DC-charging-startion-e1404583773279-435x580.jpg?dc6b84 If your charging station fails, who is responsible? And who pays for the inconvenience? https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/kia-soul-ev-charging-580x386.jpg?dc6b84 Paying for charging isn’t always popular, but it does at least make it easier to complain when things aren’t right. https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/2011-nissan-leaf_100435344_l-580x435.jpg?dc6b84 Knowing how much you’re going to pay to charge can help you plan your journeys more effectively. https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Plugging-in-the-CHAdeMO-connector-580x435.jpg?dc6b84 Regulation could make charging in public far more pleasant for all involved. ] All over the world, governmental bodies, agencies, and charities are jumping on the electric vehicle bandwagon. They’re embracing the dawn of the age of the zero emission vehicle with enthusiasm and gusto, helping to install charging point after charging point for the benefit of electric and plug-in hybrid drivers. Thanks to generous grants and financial support from automakers like Nissan, BMW and Volkswagen, we’ve even seen an explosion in rapid charging stations, offering customers with suitably-equipped cars the ability to recharge their cars from empty to 80 percent full in as little as 30 minutes. With the exception of Tesla Motors [NASDAQ:TSLA] — whose Supercharger network is owned and operated by Tesla exclusively for its own customers — the remaining non-Tesla charging stations are owned and operated by a dizzying array of different organisations, companies and municipalities. But while more electric car charging stations is a great thing for encouraging more people behind the wheel of a plug-in car, there’s a global endemic threatening the operation of charging stations and the very future of plug-in cars through poor reliability, a lack of accountability and inconsistent access. We think all three comes from a lack of regulation and accountability among the charging station providers, which is why we think car charging networks need impartial, third party regulation in order to survive. What’s more, we think that regulation needs to happen quickly, or the charging industry faces major collapse. With that in mind, here are three things we think plug-in networks need — and why they can only be regulated by a third party in the interests of true accountability. There’s a possible exception for sites with low-powered 110-volt charging and so-called ‘dumb sockets,’ but
Re: [EVDL] The Tesla Factor: Elon Musk Will Force Auto Industry... GRILLS!
The one sentence that caught my eye: Automakers may be big, lumbering, and risk-averse, but they are not stupid. Well they sure stand-in-line to copy each other's race to the ugliest GRILLS every seen since the Edsal. Is it just me or is the trend now in gas cars to see who can make the biggest and ugliest grill possible? Since EV's hardly need them at all, I wonder what the ideal front end of an EV will look like when we grow out of Grill Chrome as a decoration? Tesla has a start... Bob -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via EV Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2015 7:16 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: [EVDL] The Tesla Factor: Elon Musk Will Force Auto Industry To Roll Out Self-Driving Cars Sooner Than You Think - Forbes Food for thought: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremyanwyl/2015/04/02/evidence-of-forces-behi nd-the-tesla-factor-at-this-weeks-new-york-auto-show/?ss=tech I tend to think he's right. I also think that the first long-haul trucking company to adopt self-driving rigs will thereby become the dominant force in that industry. Sure feels like we're at the cusp of a phase change, when all sorts of little things add up in a big and surprising way. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150405/113f96 a8/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] The Tesla Factor: Elon Musk Will Force Auto Industry To Roll Out Self-Driving Cars Sooner Than You Think - Forbes
There is always a market for quality and Tesla will do fine as long as they build the best product on the Market. From: tomw via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] The Tesla Factor: Elon Musk Will Force Auto Industry To Roll Out Self-Driving Cars Sooner Than You Think - Forbes I think the article is rubbish. As far as seeing that Tesla was addressing a small market with the S...well duh, but they have ameliorated that effect somewhat by selling globally. No other company is pushing a product competitive with the S yet, but it looks like that may change in a year or two. I think Tesla's survival depends on their ability to lower costs and develop competitive products in a wider market, which means lower priced products. That largely means competing with the existing car manufacturers on their own turf, tough going. Or, they just shrink and become a supplier of niche vehicles in the future, not what Elon has in mind with the gigafactory. One factor the article doesn't mention is psychological, how well accepted that new technology will be by the majority of Americans. I'm guessing it will be a niche market too, mainly the tech savvy, and will take quite a few years to become more widely accepted, so best for Tesla's success not to hinge on that. Don't know if this is the actual case, but I think it would be easy for the management at Tesla to develop group think, forgetting that most U.S. citizens don't live in silicon valley and work in high tech, and overestimating the appeal and acceptance of such features as self-driving as a result. Know your market. The vehicle market is shrinking with the increasing polarization of wealth in the U.S.. Many cannot afford to purchase a new vehicle, so maybe you mainly have to target those in the upper quintile or so income bracket. There will be a furious fight for market share in that smaller market in the future. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/The-Tesla-Factor-Elon-Musk-Will-Force-Auto-Industry-To-Roll-Out-Self-Driving-Cars-Sooner-Than-You-Ths-tp4674777p4674791.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/277160e2/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] The Tesla Factor: Elon Musk Will Force Auto Industry To Roll Out Self-Driving Cars Sooner Than You Think - Forbes
On Apr 6, 2015, at 8:10 AM, tomw via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Don't know if this is the actual case, but I think it would be easy for the management at Tesla to develop group think, forgetting that most U.S. citizens don't live in silicon valley and work in high tech, and overestimating the appeal and acceptance of such features as self-driving as a result. I think the overwhelming majority -- near unanimity, in fact -- would absolutely love a self-driving car. Even those who enjoy driving...there're still be times they'll want / need to take a phone call, be too tired / drunk to safely drive, and so on. Most commuters would, I'm sure, rather watch TV or get caught up on email or post something on MyFaceTwit or whatever than have to make life-or-death decisions about how to maneuver a two-ton hunk of metal and glass and plastic with themselves caged within. Will they trust current technology? Could they afford current technology? Those're different questions. But the desire most emphatically exists. Just look at all the idiots on the road shaving or putting on makeup or texting or yakking on the phone...each and every one of those would much rather _not_ be driving. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/8b21ddc3/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Removing a Nissan Leaf battery without an auto lift
Thanks, you had mentioned that they were sealed well before, and you are right! I didn't have an Air Chisel, and it was a REAL CHORE removing it with a hammer and 11/2 putty knife! I probably spent 2 hours breaking the seal But I eventually got it open: http://www.summet.com/blog/2015/04/05/the-2013-nissan-leaf-lizard-battery-and-module-differences/ Are the 2013 batteries the lizard battery? Or is that only the 2014 or 2015? My understanding was that the 2013 was the lizard battery, but others have told me the chemistry wasn't changed until 2014/2015... The cells certainly look different (air vents, split sides, etc...) see the photos above for closeups... Jay On 04/05/2015 12:51 PM, Cruisin via EV wrote: The video Ben Nelson has posted showing the disassembly of a Leaf battery is the old battery type. Leaf has made a lot of modifications to the cells and the metal container. Most importantly, you cannot remove the top metal cover by simply removing about 40 bolts. The new style has about 8 molts and is silicone together to prevent liquids from entering. It is a real chore removing it with a air chisel. Just thought one should know this before tackling the project. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Removing-a-Nissan-Leaf-battery-without-an-auto-lift-tp4674766p4674775.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
