Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 91, Issue 6

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

In California, it’s no longer looking like a duck curve.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On May 7, 2020, at 6:17 PM, paul dove via EV  wrote:
> 
> It’s referred to as the Duck curve!
> 
> https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/confronting-duck-curve-how-address-over-generation-solar-energy
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 7, 2020, at 9:48 AM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> I think the big problem is how to fill in the energy voids. That is, during 
>> night or other times when usage exceeds generation.
>> 
>> Tying to the grid is the easy solution but I can see why the energy 
>> companies are resisting that: they sell less electricity - and get less 
>> revenue - but still need to maintain the same staff and infrastructure to be 
>> ready for you at any moment. Here, in the pacific NW, it's not as big a deal 
>> since most of the power comes from hydro. But it certainly is a resistance 
>> factor if your peak power comes from fossil fuels.
>> 
>> The complete solution will require massive amounts of energy storage. As 
>> everyone knows, this is expensive to build and not particularly efficient. I 
>> hope we can come up with inexpensive, safe storage that can be distributed 
>> to every point of use.
>> 
>> Peri
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Willie via EV" 
>> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
>> Cc: "Willie" 
>> Sent: 07-May-20 7:23:35 AM
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 91, Issue 6
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> On 5/7/20 8:54 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>>>>> It's really supportive to hear Tim's and Larry's testimony. So often I 
>>>>> hear or read that solar is too problematic because we need massive solar 
>>>>> farms, which will be expensive and have significant ecological impact. 
>>>>> (My speculation: this comes from energy company propaganda, indicating 
>>>>> they don't want to take losses on their current infrastructure or loose a 
>>>>> source of revenue.)
>>> 
>>> With abundant ground space and no HOA, I've been astonished how cheaply PV 
>>> can be installed.  My current cost estimate is ~$.30/watt including all 
>>> material but not labor.  Selling at local wholesale rates and with no 
>>> incentives, my payback period is about 5 years.  3-4 years if I am avoiding 
>>> retail rates.  If someone wants to argue that PV is expensive, I am 
>>> certainly willing to set them straight.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
>>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20200507/fca9bbce/attachment.html>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 91, Issue 6

[paul dove via EV]

It’s referred to as the Duck curve!

https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/confronting-duck-curve-how-address-over-generation-solar-energy

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 7, 2020, at 9:48 AM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> I think the big problem is how to fill in the energy voids. That is, during 
> night or other times when usage exceeds generation.
> 
> Tying to the grid is the easy solution but I can see why the energy companies 
> are resisting that: they sell less electricity - and get less revenue - but 
> still need to maintain the same staff and infrastructure to be ready for you 
> at any moment. Here, in the pacific NW, it's not as big a deal since most of 
> the power comes from hydro. But it certainly is a resistance factor if your 
> peak power comes from fossil fuels.
> 
> The complete solution will require massive amounts of energy storage. As 
> everyone knows, this is expensive to build and not particularly efficient. I 
> hope we can come up with inexpensive, safe storage that can be distributed to 
> every point of use.
> 
> Peri
> 
> 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Willie via EV" 
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc: "Willie" 
> Sent: 07-May-20 7:23:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 91, Issue 6
> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 5/7/20 8:54 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>>> It's really supportive to hear Tim's and Larry's testimony. So often I hear 
>>> or read that solar is too problematic because we need massive solar farms, 
>>> which will be expensive and have significant ecological impact. (My 
>>> speculation: this comes from energy company propaganda, indicating they 
>>> don't want to take losses on their current infrastructure or loose a source 
>>> of revenue.)
>> 
>> With abundant ground space and no HOA, I've been astonished how cheaply PV 
>> can be installed.  My current cost estimate is ~$.30/watt including all 
>> material but not labor.  Selling at local wholesale rates and with no 
>> incentives, my payback period is about 5 years.  3-4 years if I am avoiding 
>> retail rates.  If someone wants to argue that PV is expensive, I am 
>> certainly willing to set them straight.
>> 
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20200507/fca9bbce/attachment.html>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Kamikaze Joe's e-unicycle flies apart @40mph in NYC

[Bill Woodcock via EV]

> On May 8, 2020, at 12:59 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  wrote:
> 
> You can clearly see the battery pack go flying out due to centrifugal force. 
> Clearly a candidate for an honorable mention on the Darwin website.

There was a decade or so when we just bought one of every new EV that was 
released for our shop, to play with and do tear-downs and so forth…  We got two 
electric unicycles during that period, and I was never able to get the hang of 
either one of them.  One of my guys had been to circuit-performer school, and 
could juggle while unicycling and so forth, and he tried, and fell off and 
broke his collarbone.  He passed one of them on to two of his friends who were 
_professional_ circus unicyclists, and they tried them one time, and said they 
were deathtraps.

The basic problem being that any accident is under full acceleration, because 
the only thing it can do to try to re-balance is to accelerate to try to get 
back under you.  If you fall faster than it can get under you, it’s plowing you 
into whatever’s in front of you, at full acceleration.  Or behind you, same 
thing.

-Bill

-- next part --
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 833 bytes
Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Kamikaze Joe's e-unicycle flies apart @40mph in NYC

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

 You can clearly see the battery pack go flying out due to centrifugal force. 
Clearly a candidate for an honorable mention on the Darwin website. Lawrence 
Rhodes  
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20200507/3b485a8f/attachment.html>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 91, Issue 6

[jim via EV]

 We've been using small wind since around 1977, and PVs since 1981 or so.  We 
moved in 1989 and brought it all with us and have since installed more so we 
now have about 7 1/2 kw of PVs, and our 2.5kw Jacobs generator is shut off for 
need of a bearing replacement (only repair in 43 years).  We run our house, 
some of our heating, all our air conditioning, our Nissan Leaf, GE Elec-trac 
garden tractor, shop tools, etc. on the PVs.  We're grid tied now and our 
electric bill for 11 months is the minimum connection fee and we usually have a 
bill of around $90 to $100 in January.  Our utility zeros out our account 
January first so we try to use all of our banked energy by the end of December. 
 Before the Leaf we had a VW Golf conversion and before that a CitiCar and then 
a ComutaCar.  Our oldest PV panels (ca1981 35 watt Arco) still produce close to 
what they did 39 years ago--I can't measure the difference with my Fluke 
meters.  We live in a 100+ year old farm house with updated insulation etc., 
but it's a far cry from the superinsulated house we built back in the 1970s.  A 
more efficient house could easily be run completely on our 7.5 kw of PVs.
Jim Erdman, in Menomonie
>On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 2:34 PM Offgrid Systems via EV 
>wrote:
>
>>  Hey Larry, I think that was me. I did car/house/solar+storage and we are
>>  about 95% net zero on an annualized basis. I am installing a little more
>>  solar and converting my diesel tractor to get to 100%. The upfront cost
>>  is there but now the savings are big. Low fuel and maintenance costs for
>>  the EV's. Same for a passive house, with the bonus being excellent air
>>  quality inside, and cozy warm in the winter. And solar, even here in the
>>  great Pacific Northwest is like magic, super low cost to maintain,
>>  basically clean them off once per year. It's the perfect retirement plan
>>  for me, low outgo, maximum payback and supreme fun!
>>
>>  Tim Economu
>  
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20200507/2d067753/attachment.html>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] Kamikaze Joe's e-unicycle flies apart @40mph in NYC tunnel (v)

[evln via EV]

https://www.carscoops.com/2020/05/riding-a-modded-electric-unicycle-at-40-mph-in-nyc-tunnel-has-consequences/
Riding A Modded Electric Unicycle At 40 MPH In NYC Tunnel ...
May 7, 2020  Electric unicycles look like a fun way to ride for those who
have enough courage and good balance to use them ...
https://youtu.be/RwcxT4lOnpo


+
https://hackaday.com/2018/04/23/3000w-unicycles-only-limitation-is-personal-courage/
3000W Unicycle’s Only Limitation Is “Personal Courage”
April 23, 2018 ... Power comes from twenty LiFePO4 cells in the cylindrical
fuselage above the wheel, and switches and knobs provide fine-tuning of the
control software ...
https://youtu.be/CE0rmpAKH4k
...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8216895/Man-riding-UNICYCLE-28mph-main-road-pulled-wobbling-much.html
 (wobbling: move unsteadily from side to side)
...
http://www.weebles-wobble.com/
 (Weebles Wobble but they don't fall down!)




For EVLN EV-newswire posts view:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/
https://mail-archive.com/ev@lists.evdl.org/maillist.html


{brucedp.neocities.org}

--
Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] Xinge Henan .cn e-tuk micro-RV> (not4 far or fast)

[evln via EV]

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/406910/chinese-three-wheeled-tuktuk-rv/
This Three-Wheeled Electric RV Could Be Perfect For Self-Isolation
Mar 30, 2020 ... Chinese Maker Offers a Motorhome for Self-Isolation ...
Just don’t expect to go very far or fast ...
Looking like the love-child of a traditional RV and a Tuk Tuk, this Chinese
import is outfitted with just about everything you could need to get away
from it all ... This electric Tuk Tuk RV helps in social distancing. A niche
Chinese vehicle maker Xinge Henan Motorcycle Co. sells a 1400lb (635 kg), 9'
...
https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/jveLN/s3/tuktukrv.jpg
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=Xinge+Henan


+ (dated, $219k full-size 249i .de e-RV)
https://www.curbed.com/2019/9/17/20870863/electric-rv-for-sale-camper-motorhome-iridiu
m-dusseldorf
World’s first fully electric RV can now go 249 miles on one charge
Sep 17, 2019  The Iridium EV is the brainchild of two German companies,
ElektroFahrzeuge Stuttgart (called EFA-S, an electric vehicle retrofitter)
and WOF, a camper van manufacturer ... 249mi Iridium flagship will list at
~$219,000 ...
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/65265565/wof_iridium_e_wohnmobil_camper_caravan_salon.0.jpg




For EVLN EV-newswire posts view:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/
https://mail-archive.com/ev@lists.evdl.org/maillist.html


{brucedp.neocities.org}

--
Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] 20kW wireless/inductive EVSE across 11" @92% efficiency

[evln via EV]

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1127954_wireless-charging-demo-for-trucks-20-kw-across-11-inches-92-efficiency
Wireless charging demo for trucks: 20 kw across 11 inches, 92% efficiency
Apr 27, 2020 - Although still in demonstration mode, a DOE lab project shows
that wireless charging ... Wireless charging demo for trucks: 20 kw across
11 inches, 92% efficiency ... 
https://images.hgmsites.net/hug/ornl-wireless-charging-demonstration-with-ups-hybrid-truck_100745453_h.jpg


+
https://news.stanford.edu/2020/05/04/wirelessly-charging-electric-cars-drive/
Stanford researchers one step closer toward enabling electric cars to
recharge themselves wirelessly as they drive
May 4, 2020  Engineers have demonstrated a practical way to use magnetism to
transmit electricity wirelessly to recharge electric cars, robots or even
drones. The technology could be scaled up to power electric cars as they
drive over highways, robots on factory floors and drones hovering over
rooftops.
https://news-media.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/04130153/WIRELESS-kimi-lee-M3RVFbqKGu4-unsplash.jpg




For EVLN EV-newswire posts view:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/
https://mail-archive.com/ev@lists.evdl.org/maillist.html


{brucedp.neocities.org}

--
Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 91, Issue 6

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

Not speaking about any specific type of solar, I saw a recent stat that solar 
was the cheapest source for new energy.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On May 7, 2020, at 7:48 AM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> I think the big problem is how to fill in the energy voids. That is, during 
> night or other times when usage exceeds generation.
> 
> Tying to the grid is the easy solution but I can see why the energy companies 
> are resisting that: they sell less electricity - and get less revenue - but 
> still need to maintain the same staff and infrastructure to be ready for you 
> at any moment. Here, in the pacific NW, it's not as big a deal since most of 
> the power comes from hydro. But it certainly is a resistance factor if your 
> peak power comes from fossil fuels.
> 
> The complete solution will require massive amounts of energy storage. As 
> everyone knows, this is expensive to build and not particularly efficient. I 
> hope we can come up with inexpensive, safe storage that can be distributed to 
> every point of use.
> 
> Peri
> 
> 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Willie via EV" 
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc: "Willie" 
> Sent: 07-May-20 7:23:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 91, Issue 6
> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 5/7/20 8:54 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>>> It's really supportive to hear Tim's and Larry's testimony. So often I hear 
>>> or read that solar is too problematic because we need massive solar farms, 
>>> which will be expensive and have significant ecological impact. (My 
>>> speculation: this comes from energy company propaganda, indicating they 
>>> don't want to take losses on their current infrastructure or loose a source 
>>> of revenue.)
>> 
>> With abundant ground space and no HOA, I've been astonished how cheaply PV 
>> can be installed.  My current cost estimate is ~$.30/watt including all 
>> material but not labor.  Selling at local wholesale rates and with no 
>> incentives, my payback period is about 5 years.  3-4 years if I am avoiding 
>> retail rates.  If someone wants to argue that PV is expensive, I am 
>> certainly willing to set them straight.
>> 
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] e-ferry vendors sought2 replace .us W.Coast ice vessels

[evln via EV]

https://www.marinelink.com/news/vendors-sought-inform-electric-ferry-478302
Vendors Sought to Inform Electric Ferry Design
May 7, 2020 ... Skagit County Public Works and vessel designer Glosten say
they are seeking technical information and cost estimates from vendors to
inform design decisions related to the electrical system, the propulsion
system, the shore side electrical system, and the automated charging plug of
the all-electric ferry design to replace the 41-year-old M/V Guemes
currently in operation on the U.S. West Coast ...
https://images.marinelink.com/images/maritime/w400/image-glosten-112719.jpg
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=west+coast+ferries


+
https://www.rivieramm.com/news-content-hub/news-content-hub/bc-ferriesrsquonbspisland-classnbspa-lsquofuture-proofrsquo-solutionnbspnbsp-59004
BC Ferries' Island-class: a 'future-proof' solution
BC Ferries' new Island-class ships are ready to be converted from
hybrid-electric vessels to fully electric ferries in the future ...
https://dvzpv6x5302g1.cloudfront.net/AcuCustom/Sitename/DAM/072/BC_Ferries_Main.jpg
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+ferries




For EVLN EV-newswire posts view:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/
https://mail-archive.com/ev@lists.evdl.org/maillist.html


{brucedp.neocities.org}

--
Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 91, Issue 6

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

Just to clarify, the "spinning reserve" argument against renewable energy
is propaganda.  Already the power companies have to have enough spinning
reserve to match any single generating plant in their grid.  So if there
is a nuke in the area, then they already have to have enough spinning
reserve to equal the entire nuke plant.  Or something like that.

So the 2% of solar power (to date) is absolutely insignificant to what is
already spinning.  For wind, say we are at 10%, then still there is
already enough spinning reserve on line.   Yes we will need peaking
plants, and even though they are more expensive, they can ramp up in
seconds and that added costs is minor compared to all the other "fuel-cost
free" renewables.

Batteries are coming along and I have no worries that they will not be
here at the same rate as renewables increase.

Bob
-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV
Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:48 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Cc: Peri Hartman 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 91, Issue 6

I think the big problem is how to fill in the energy voids. That is,
during night or other times when usage exceeds generation.

Tying to the grid is the easy solution but I can see why the energy
companies are resisting that: they sell less electricity - and get less
revenue - but still need to maintain the same staff and infrastructure to
be ready for you at any moment. Here, in the pacific NW, it's not as big a
deal since most of the power comes from hydro. But it certainly is a
resistance factor if your peak power comes from fossil fuels.

The complete solution will require massive amounts of energy storage. As
everyone knows, this is expensive to build and not particularly efficient.
I hope we can come up with inexpensive, safe storage that can be
distributed to every point of use.

Peri



-- Original Message --
From: "Willie via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Willie" 
Sent: 07-May-20 7:23:35 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 91, Issue 6

>
>
>On 5/7/20 8:54 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>>It's really supportive to hear Tim's and Larry's testimony. So often I
>>hear or read that solar is too problematic because we need massive
>>solar farms, which will be expensive and have significant ecological
>>impact. (My speculation: this comes from energy company propaganda,
>>indicating they don't want to take losses on their current
>>infrastructure or loose a source of revenue.)
>
>With abundant ground space and no HOA, I've been astonished how cheaply
PV can be installed.  My current cost estimate is ~$.30/watt including all
material but not labor.  Selling at local wholesale rates and with no
incentives, my payback period is about 5 years.  3-4 years if I am
avoiding retail rates.  If someone wants to argue that PV is expensive, I
am certainly willing to set them straight.
>
>___
>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
>INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 91, Issue 6

[Willie via EV]

On 5/7/20 9:47 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
I think the big problem is how to fill in the energy voids. That is, 
during night or other times when usage exceeds generation.


Tying to the grid is the easy solution but I can see why the energy 
companies are resisting that: they sell less electricity - and get less 
revenue - but still need to maintain the same staff and infrastructure 
to be ready for you at any moment. Here, in the pacific NW, it's not as 
big a deal since most of the power comes from hydro. But it certainly is 
a resistance factor if your peak power comes from fossil fuels.


I don't understand everything I know about our energy market.  Or is it 
I don't know everything I understand?  Without question, it is 
complicated and convoluted.


I'm in the rare situation where my utility has no generation.  They buy 
everything they sell on the ERCOT market.  ERCOT being the agency 
charged with maintaining order and reliability in (most of) Texas 
market.  Since buying power from members (it is a coop) bypasses 
transmission charges from west Texas (both wind and increasingly PV) and 
other locations, they are willing to pay a higher rate than a west Texas 
PV producer would receive.  AND they are willing to pay cash for over 
production.  It is very rare for a utility to be willing to pay cash for 
over production.



___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 91, Issue 6

[Peri Hartman via EV]

I think the big problem is how to fill in the energy voids. That is, 
during night or other times when usage exceeds generation.


Tying to the grid is the easy solution but I can see why the energy 
companies are resisting that: they sell less electricity - and get less 
revenue - but still need to maintain the same staff and infrastructure 
to be ready for you at any moment. Here, in the pacific NW, it's not as 
big a deal since most of the power comes from hydro. But it certainly is 
a resistance factor if your peak power comes from fossil fuels.


The complete solution will require massive amounts of energy storage. As 
everyone knows, this is expensive to build and not particularly 
efficient. I hope we can come up with inexpensive, safe storage that can 
be distributed to every point of use.


Peri



-- Original Message --
From: "Willie via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Willie" 
Sent: 07-May-20 7:23:35 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 91, Issue 6




On 5/7/20 8:54 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

It's really supportive to hear Tim's and Larry's testimony. So often I hear or 
read that solar is too problematic because we need massive solar farms, which 
will be expensive and have significant ecological impact. (My speculation: this 
comes from energy company propaganda, indicating they don't want to take losses 
on their current infrastructure or loose a source of revenue.)


With abundant ground space and no HOA, I've been astonished how cheaply PV can 
be installed.  My current cost estimate is ~$.30/watt including all material 
but not labor.  Selling at local wholesale rates and with no incentives, my 
payback period is about 5 years.  3-4 years if I am avoiding retail rates.  If 
someone wants to argue that PV is expensive, I am certainly willing to set them 
straight.

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 91, Issue 6

[Willie via EV]

On 5/7/20 8:54 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
It's really supportive to hear Tim's and Larry's testimony. So often I 
hear or read that solar is too problematic because we need massive solar 
farms, which will be expensive and have significant ecological impact. 
(My speculation: this comes from energy company propaganda, indicating 
they don't want to take losses on their current infrastructure or loose 
a source of revenue.)


With abundant ground space and no HOA, I've been astonished how cheaply 
PV can be installed.  My current cost estimate is ~$.30/watt including 
all material but not labor.  Selling at local wholesale rates and with 
no incentives, my payback period is about 5 years.  3-4 years if I am 
avoiding retail rates.  If someone wants to argue that PV is expensive, 
I am certainly willing to set them straight.


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 91, Issue 6

[Peri Hartman via EV]

It's really supportive to hear Tim's and Larry's testimony. So often I 
hear or read that solar is too problematic because we need massive solar 
farms, which will be expensive and have significant ecological impact. 
(My speculation: this comes from energy company propaganda, indicating 
they don't want to take losses on their current infrastructure or loose 
a source of revenue.)


Here is direct evidence that, at least for residential, that isn't the 
case. Progress in solar roof tile technology will make it relatively 
cheap and very practical to have solar roofs pretty much everywhere - 
and perhaps cover 100% of residential electricity needs, on average. I 
can imagine future technology where windows, particularly on office 
towers, would have a solar film, perhaps with electronically controlled 
polarized glass, that would be nearly transparent when in shade and 
active when in the sun.


Thanks for posting !
Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Larry Gales via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Larry Gales" 
Sent: 06-May-20 10:42:18 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 91, Issue 6


I was very happy when you spoke up at SEVA.  Although I thought my
calculations were reasonable, I did not have them peer reviewed, and so I
was not sure if I had missed some important aspect, but your actual results
confirmed my views.  So, thanks a lot.

On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 2:34 PM Offgrid Systems via EV 
wrote:


 Hey Larry, I think that was me. I did car/house/solar+storage and we are
 about 95% net zero on an annualized basis. I am installing a little more
 solar and converting my diesel tractor to get to 100%. The upfront cost
 is there but now the savings are big. Low fuel and maintenance costs for
 the EV's. Same for a passive house, with the bonus being excellent air
 quality inside, and cozy warm in the winter. And solar, even here in the
 great Pacific Northwest is like magic, super low cost to maintain,
 basically clean them off once per year. It's the perfect retirement plan
 for me, low outgo, maximum payback and supreme fun!

 Tim Economu

 On 5/6/2020 9:13 AM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 > Some time ago I made a presentation at the Seattle Electric Vehicle
 > Association (SEVA) in which I showed that, even in the Seattle area which
 > has the worst solar energy in the USA (other than Alaska), by combining 3
 > existing technologies:  (1) electric cars, like the Model 3, (2) the
 > European Passive House Design, and (3) a 10 kW solar panel, that the
 > combination of house+cars not only is net positive in terms of energy,
 but
 > reduces the total amount of energy use by a factor of 9-10, even when you
 > include the energy needed to manufacture and install the 10 kW solar
 panel.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > At the end of this presentation, one of the SEVA members got up and said
 > that he had actually done what  I merely calculate and talk about, and
 that
 > my figures are very close to what he has observed in reality.
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
 INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)




--
Larry Gales
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)