Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EU agrees on 2035 ICEV ban, sort of

[Ty Delaney via EV]

It was my understanding that Texaco bought the patents, shelved them, and 
retain them.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 30, 2022, at 8:51 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV  wrote:
> 
> Don’t forget that recycling of lead acid batteries contaminates the 
> communities around them, creating major health problems to those near them 
> and downwind.
> 
> 
> 
> - Mark
> 
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 30, 2022, at 1:56 PM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> Peri Hartman wrote:
 There's been a move back to LiFePo because it doesn't use cobalt. What
 else can be done?
>> 
>> EV List Lackey wrote:
>>> Nickel metal hydride?
>> 
>> There are actually lots of rechargeable battery technologies that could be 
>> used. Each has different strengths and weaknesses.
>> 
>> It's unfortunate that manufacturers tend to prefer a monoculture. "One thing 
>> to rule them all". But anything that you try to apply to 8 billion people is 
>> bound to cause unforeseen problems. Different applications should really use 
>> different solutions.
>> 
>> Lead-acid is cheap, and widely recyclable. But it's relatively heavy and has 
>> a low energy density. It still makes sense for short-range EVs like golf 
>> carts, fork lifts, scooters, etc. Also, don't forget that virtually every 
>> ICE is still using lead-acids.
>> 
>> Nickel-based batteries (nickel-iron, nickel-cadmium, nimh) have higher 
>> energy density and longer life, and the materials are relatively abundant. 
>> Nickel is expensive, but fairly easy to recycle (though it's not being 
>> widely done for batteries).
>> 
>> Lithium-based batteries have the highest energy density, but are expensive, 
>> less safe, and (at least for the present) not being recycled.
>> 
>> And, there are lots of other chemistries that could be used. We should be 
>> exploring *every* option; not just blindly picking one.
>> 
>> Lee Hart
>> 
>> -- 
>> "#3 pencils and quadrille pads." -- Seymour Cray, when asked
>> what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer
>> --
>> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>> 
>> -- 
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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 118, Issue 2

[Ty Delaney via EV]

I would NEVER let a car drive me unless it was coupled to a track.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 16, 2022, at 3:04 PM, Justin Kenny via EV  wrote:
> 
> The Tesla "FSD" computer is actually "dual redundant" as mentioned in this
> Tesla Autonomy Day clip from 3 years ago:
> https://youtu.be/Ucp0TTmvqOE?t=4648 However to your point, 2 is not enough;
> it's only enough to tell you *someone* is wrong, but not who. Hence why in
> my job with hardware testing we need a minimum of 3 devices tested to
> indicate which one is the outlier, if any. Given that "FSD" even now is
> still a level 2 system where the driver is fully responsible for the
> actions of the car, I suppose they don't care, if one computer doesn't
> agree with the other, it kicks back to you, the responsible driver. Very
> annoying and dangerous if this happens around a sharp turn or construction
> zone, as (non-FSD) autopilot tends to do, however.
> 
> - Justin
> 
> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 21:44:09 -0400
>> From: "mark hanson" 
>> To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" 
>> Subject: [EVDL] Self Driving Not Ready for Prime Time, EVLN: Tesla
>>can't see kids
>> Message-ID: <000b01d8ad23$d9e84c50$8db8e4f0$@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> Hi Folks,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I was heading up rt81 freeway from Roanoke VA to Harrisonburg yesterday in
>> my Tesla Y to get flushed away at the Massanutten H20 Park and an hour into
>> the trip the self driving or "auto pilot" jerked the steering wheel into
>> the
>> left lane & I jerked it back (luckily between cars).  I thought using self
>> driving was safe on straight highways, "what could possibly go wrong?".
>> Then about a 1/2 hour later (just using the cruise control), it hit the
>> brakes and I hit the accelerator (almost got rear ended).  My son said
>> "dad,
>> why don't you just drive the car and forget about the self driving
>> nonsense".  Words of wisdom.  Elon should just keep making a nice EV and
>> forget the fluffy stuff that causes problems.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The fundemantal "fatal flaw" is self driving needs at least 3 computers to
>> "vote" and kick out the one that gets a glitch (cosmic rays, brain farts
>> etc).  All the cars attempting this foolishness are using only *one*
>> microcomputer.
>> 
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Re: [EVDL] maybe convert odyssey ?

[Ty Delaney via EV]

Even better, Many grand Caravan models have an electric lift gate. Perfect to 
load an extra pack. I feel like I will do this With my Caravan one day, too 
much to resist the Full StowNgo EV!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 26, 2021, at 3:52 PM, Luke Scharf via EV  wrote:
> 
> Yes, I have a reservation for a Cybertruck.
> 
> I'm OK with the current design.  I can't defend its looks, but it's likely
> to be so caprable that I don't care how it looks.  It's ugly like a Jeep.
> 
> -Luke
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 2:49 PM Luke Scharf 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I'm holding out for the Tesla Cybertruck because it is not yet in
>> production.
>> 
>> My current requirement is for a 6000lb towing capacity and 5 seats.  My
>> work-from-home arrangement means that commuting is not a significant part
>> of the vehicle's mileage.
>> 
>> But, the reality is that I'm driving an 11-year-old truck.  This truck is
>> about as close as possible to the upcoming EV pickup trucks,
>> technologically speaking.  But it does come with some disadvantages: some
>> newer non-hybrid trucks do have better window-sticker numbers than my
>> 2-mode hybrid -- those trucks cost more than I'm willing to spend on a
>> short-term purchase.  Also, this machine is a rare beast, and so it's hard
>> to find mechanics who have some experience with it (including my local GMC
>> dealer).  Despite having been well taken care of by its previous owner,
>> it's starting to see the same issues you see on all 11-year-old GMT900s.
>> I'm waiting for the upcoming EV pickup trucks to hit the market so that I
>> can swap it for my "forever" truck.  It really does feel like I'm holding
>> out.
>> 
>> That said, these big hybrids have really grown on me.  With the hybrid
>> system under the hood, they're really nice vehicles to drive day-to-day.
>> Also, operations like hitching up the trailer and backing up with a trailer
>> are a lot easier than anything I've ever towed with before, due to the
>> precise low-end control provided by the hybrid drivetrain.  I really can
>> move the truck 1/4" backward when I need to, and I'm pleasantly surprised
>> by how much time the engine spends in auto-stop mode when towing a
>> trailer.  If more people had seat-time in these big hybrids, they'd be a
>> lot more popular.
>> 
>> -Luke
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 2:21 PM Peri Hartman via EV 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> In what way are you "holding out" for the cybertruck ? Have you ordered
>>> one or are you waiting for the next design iteration ?
>>> Peri
>>> 
>>> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
>>> 
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Luke Scharf" 
>>> To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
>>> List" 
>>> Sent: 26-Apr-21 12:13:20 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] maybe convert odyssey ?
>>> 
 Do need 200 miles every day?  Or once a week?  Or once a month?
 
 The Pacifica PHEV has a total range of about 520 miles.  The first 32
 miles are electric, and the remaining miles are on gasoline.
 
 If you need 20 miles most days, and only need the 200 miles a couple of
 times a month, the PHEV would be a pretty smooth 90% solution.
 
 For my needs, I'm holding out for the Tesla truck, and driving one of
 the GM 2-Mode hybrids in the meantime.  I'll be happy to explain why
 that's a match for my situation.  Hopefully the Tesla truck will be a
 long-term do-everything vehicle.
 
 -Luke
 
 
 On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 1:57 PM Peri Hartman via EV 
 wrote:
> I need min 200 mile range with heat and defrost running. That's the RT
> for most of my mountain activites, where there are few, if any
> charging
> opportunities (and frankly, with a 12-14 hour outing, I don't want to
> add 30 minutes for charging). Also I'd like better ground clearance
> than
> the minivan, which is 6.5". I'd like some hauling capacity, but I
> could
> keep the minivan for occasional hauling.
> 
> I might have another look at the tesla truck. It would be nice if they
> allowed you to take out the back seat and open the back of the cab,
> for
> long loads. It's ugly (in my opinion) but I don't really care. It's
> also
> too long for my driveway, I think. Need to double check.
> 
> Peri
> 
> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Alan Brinkman via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Cc: "Alan Brinkman" 
> Sent: 26-Apr-21 11:13:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] maybe convert odyssey ?
> 
>> Peri,
>> At first I thought you meant the Odyssey 250cc off road atv by Honda.
> You
>> have a minivan. What about getting a newer Nissan Leaf and installing
> a tow
>> hitch. Then purchase a light enclosed or open utility trailer? Not
> optimal
>> but?
>> Alan
>> 
>> On Mon, Apr 26, 2021, 9:27 

Re: [EVDL] Roland Wiench

[Ty Delaney via EV]

Rip Roland. I’m sorry for your loss and the loss to the community.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 30, 2019, at 12:31 PM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> He would have been my favorite uncle, too :) Best of luck getting the car to 
> work and I hope you enjoy its uniqueness !
> Peri
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Tom Wilhelm via EV" 
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc: "Tom Wilhelm" 
> Sent: 28-Sep-19 9:40:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Roland Wiench
> 
>> Hello all,
>> I am Roland Wiench’s nephew and I live in Hood River, Oregon.  Roland was my
>> favorite Uncle and we worked on many projects together in my childhood.
>> Roland was an electrician at an the Montana Air National Gaurd and I got to
>> see a lot of industrial projects as a young kid. I was his helper on wiring
>> my parents home.  He also taught me rigging, welding and construction. He
>> was always kind about my mistakesIn 2006 he came out to visit and
>> insisted in tidying up my circuit breaker panels before the inspector came
>> to sign off. The inspector was at a loss for words at the neatness and
>> labeling of the wires. Said he thought he was looking at an airplane
>> component.   As an adult, I frequently called on him  regarding wiring
>> questions about size, voltage drop service entrance for my house, barn, also
>> a 3-phase to single phase conversion of a monarch 10ee lathe, building power
>> supplies for amplifiers, etc.  in March 2018 Roland had a slip and fall
>> causing an epidural hemorrhage in his brain resulting in a non-survivable
>> outcome.  I sorely miss my uncle despite some of his answers that started
>> at the electron.
>> 
>> Roland willed his car to me and it is sitting in my yard. I have driven
>> it about a mile after I picked it up. It took me a good hour to start it as
>> Roland
>> Had told me it would be difficult to steal due to the amount of switches.
>> The car
>> sat over the winter and the 12 volt battery (not main battery pack)
>> discharged
>> and now it won’t start despite a new battery. I believe the brain (hair ball
>> 2?) of the
>> system needs constant power to retain its programming.  My new shop will be
>> dried in this month and I hope to move the car in and sort out the system
>> and
>> get it running. I know he drove it every day rain or shine.  If it’s ok, i’d
>> like to ask some of you questions when the time comes about getting this car
>> up and running again.
>> 
>> Thanks so much for the kind words about Roland.
>> 
>> Tom Wilhelm
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
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Re: [EVDL] EV Album Website

[Ty Delaney via EV]

The EV Album is an amazing resource. Conversions are definitely still a thing. 
I hope it will always be there.
Thanks for taking care of it all these years!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 29, 2019, at 9:18 AM, Willie via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 9/29/19 8:11 AM, Mike C via EV wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>> I am sorry I haven’t posted anything about this before.  About two years ago 
>> the feedback system on the EV Album website stopped working.  I tried to get 
>> it going again at the time but made no headway.  I have now retired and 
>> should have more time to devote to it.  The real question is in a world of 
>> mass produced electric cars, how valuable is the Album anymore?  Should only 
>> conversions be included or only old production EVs, or should the whole 
>> thing just go away?  The Album has been up something like 20 years and that 
>> is an eternity on the internet.   Does it still have a valid purpose?
> 
> MANY "late adopters", mostly new Tesla owners, are completely unaware of what 
> came before.  I frequently use EVAlbum to try to educate/remind. Of special 
> value is JB Straubel's entry.  I STILL try to encourage new EVers to view and 
> contemplate WKTEC.
> 
> I would greatly mourn the passing of EVAlbum.
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Re: [EVDL] Motorcycle hub motor setup

[Ty Delaney via EV]

I actually learned a lot about these hub motors by reading descriptions on 
amazon 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 15, 2018, at 11:01 AM, Eduardo Kaftanski via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> In one strange turn of events, I am now the owner of a Chinese electric
> scooter. It’s a 72v lithium system with a rear hub motor. As far as I know
> it’s the only one of its kind in the country (Chile) as it was brought as a
> demonstrator for a business that ultimately failed.
> 
> It’s sold with a bunch of different names and I’ve found it’s based on a
> generic gas scooter. This one has a Zap vin plate riveted in. It has never
> been registered but I am working of that.
> 
> I kind of like driving it, but I would like to hack it and reuse the parts
> to convert a Kawasaki 250 or 300 from gas to ev.
> 
> Problem is, I now almost nothing about it. Is there some site or sites
> where I can learn about this Chinese ev setups?
> 
> Are hub motors interchangeable? I would need to buy a 17” one for the
> Kawasaki but I would like to reuse all the other parts.
> 
> Any info and pointers are welcome!
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> -- 
> Eduardo Kaftanski
> edua...@kdi.cl
> ekaf...@gmail.com
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Re: [EVDL] Roland Wiench

[Ty Delaney via EV]

Wow, I am almost always just a listener here, but I sincerely remember Roland’s 
posts :-( RIP

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 20, 2018, at 6:29 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> If youi've been on the EVDL for a while, you probably remember reading posts 
> by Roland Wiench.  He gave us a lot of them -- over 4,100.  His first post, 
> about LRR tires, seems to have been in November of 2003.  He posted several 
> times in late 2016 and early 2017, then one last time in May of 2017.  
> 
> You can read many of his posts in the archive.  He's also quoted in an EVDL 
> library article, http://www.evdl.org/pages/battpost.html
> 
> I realized recently that I hadn't read anything from him in quite a while, 
> so I did some investigation.  I'm sad to report that Roland passed away on 
> the 16th of March this year.  The obituary is quoted below.
> 
> Roland got his El Camino conversion from Robert Aronson's Electric Fuel 
> Propulsion in Michigan.  Aronson is probably best remembered for his Renault-
> based Mars I and Mars II conversions (Dauphines and R10s), every nook and 
> cranny jammed with lead batteries, but he converted several large American 
> cars too.
> 
> Roland never stopped improving and refining that El Camino, which at one 
> time weighed over 3.5 tons.  Recently, he'd fitted it with Leaf modules, 
> which must have significantly reduced the weight.  
> 
> You can see the car before the Leaf module conversion here:
> 
> http://evalbum.com/470
> 
> -
> 
> https://www.croxfordfuneralhome.com/notices/Roland-Wiench
> 
> Roland Eugene Wiench
> September 4, 1936 ~ March 16, 2018 (age 81)
> 
> Born on Sept. 4, 1936 on Friday at 11:45 AM, I came out facing North in 
> Dickinson, North Dakota, in the hospital 400 feet from our home. Made it 
> home for lunch at 12 noon.
> 
> My father, an electrical engineer, took me down to his electrical laboratory 
> (I called it a dungeon). At the age of 8, he taught me basic electricity. My 
> first project was a dog repellant that was placed in the garden. As a dog 
> came into the garden, I turned on a switch that tickled his feet at a real 
> low voltage. The dog stood up on his two back feet and tiptoed through the 
> tulips, dancing the jitterbug. Later, I made an overhead electrical trolley 
> using an erector set with the clotheslines as the conductors. I forgot to 
> turn off the power and the laundry lady did the jitterbug too.
> 
> I attended St. Patrick´s grade school and Assumption Abbey high school in 
> North Dakota. I also attended the College of Great Falls, Montana.
> 
> I enlisted in the Navy in 1955 as flight, radar controller, and navigator 
> for carriers in the Atlantic. After studying aviation electronics 
> engineering, I worked for Boeing Aircraft in Great Falls. Meanwhile I was 
> employed as an electrical technician, then electrical supervisor at MANG 
> (Montana Air National Guard).
> 
> After serving in The Navy, USAF, and MANG I was honorably discharged as 
> Master Sergeant in 1989.
> 
> In 1976 I received a grant and a prototype electric car from Electric Fuel 
> Propulsion of Troy, Michigan. Since 1989 I have worked on the science of 
> improvement of the electrical vehicle.
> 
> =
> 
> While Roland remained a bachelor, many nieces and nephews survive. To some 
> he was an Uncle and to others, because he lived with us during our 
> childhood, Roland was an Uncle-Brother. Roland was predeceased by parents 
> Frank and Clementine Wiench; brothers and their wives: Francis (Marilyn) 
> Wiench and Alcuin (Annie) Wiench; sisters and their husbands: Bernice (Paul) 
> Wilhelm and Beatrice Hall.
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
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> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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Re: [EVDL] Musk dissociating from an annoying customer who isn't worth the trouble

[Ty Delaney via EV]

What you said all may be true but definitely NOT in this case. This is no 
"deal", this is an American made retail  product built for "the public". It's 
not about entitlement, it's about equality and our right to life liberty and 
the pursuit of happiness 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 6, 2016, at 1:36 PM, Cor van de Water via EV  wrote:
> 
> That definitely is the new America:
> be rude, obnoxious and possibly even threatening/blackmailing a seller so he 
> decides that you do not deserve his business,
> then you turn around and sue the seller for not providing you the service 
> that you feel entitled to.
> Absolutely one of the problems with America today.
> 
> (note - I have no info about the details between the rude customer and Elon, 
> but I see a lot of this type behavior, so it is not specific this case I am 
> talking about - more a generic problem of entitlement).
> 
> I hope that we can bring the seller/customer relation a bit more in balance 
> by allowing and expecting that either can decide not to enter a specific deal 
> for good business reasons, instead of bringing the hammer down on one side.
> 
> Cor van de Water 
> Chief Scientist 
> Proxim Wireless 
> 
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 
> 
> http://www.proxim.com
> 
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and 
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received this 
> message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any unauthorized 
> use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is 
> prohibited.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of ty delanty via EV
> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2016 10:10 AM
> To: brucedp5; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Musk dissociating from an annoying customer who isn't 
> worth the trouble
> 
> Aside from debating about who is more rude, petty, or immature, what Musk did 
> should be illegal in the US. IMHO  
> 
>On Thursday, February 4, 2016 5:38 PM, brucedp5 via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [ref
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Elon-Musk-I-don-t-like-you-so-you-can-t-have-a-Tesla-tp4680259.html
> ]
> 
> 'An annoying customer simply isn't worth the trouble'
> 'Play nice, or at least be polite'
> 
> % I passed on this news item for several reasons, one being the media played
> it up too much without doing the research to know who Alsop2 was [
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stewart_Alsop_II
> ] and what was he spewing like a Donald wannabe (Trump or Sterling, you
> pick). If Alsop2's time was that important to him, he should have just left.
> 
> Musk stopped short of wasting anymore time on him (with a spanking, or a
> case of whoop-ass that Alsop2 deserved) and just walked-away (dissociated)
> from the loser. I feel Musk took justifiable corrective action, and Alsop2
> got what he asked for.
> 
> [Sidebar: I am reminded of the goings-on in the sea of cubicals at 1980's
> hi-tech companies, when a jr., inexperienced, unproven female Software (SW)
> Engineer came over to the senior (he was a SW God) Engineer's cubical (where
> I was waiting on him to finish what he was doing so I could do his
> CE-required task). She verbally accosted (laid-into) the Senior, 'that she
> did not appreciate that she was given the interviewee early, that it screwed
> up her day's schedule' (this was when there were few female Engineers, and
> they were unprepared for the ways of hi-tech industry teamwork, etc. - today
> is different).
> 
> The Senior turned to me and said, 'She could have just asked them to wait
> until she was ready', meaning she vented on a team member (redirecting her
> responsibility, laying blame for her decision on someone else), and she did
> it to a Senior she would need help from sometime in the future, instead of
> acting like a person living in the real world. He shook off her abuse, and
> he took me to the problem he wanted me to resolve.
> 
> In the above environment, she was burning too many bridges by her actions.
> Later, I found out she had left that company to work elsewhere (or it was
> uncomfortable for her to stay because of her own unacknowledged
> bad-behavior).
> /Sidebar]
> 
> IMO, Musk removed an annoying-tick, and stayed focused on the humongous
> issues to be resolved on his desk. Because of the slow-down of good EV
> stories (automakers are not pushing for CARB credits right now, etc.), that
> has made the media bored and willing to make a big-deal out of anything to
> keep their editors pleased (that their writers are working/earning their
> paycheck).
> 
> Below are newswires that give a little more detail on this topic:
> %
> 
> http://www.maxim.com/maxim-man/elon-musk-tesla-revenge-2016-2
> ELON MUSK DROPS THE HAMMER ON A VENTURE 

Re: [EVDL] Converting '51 Chevy (after going off rid?)...

[Ty Delaney via EV]

Very good point! Thanks

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 18, 2016, at 6:26 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV  wrote:
> 
> Houseboat, perfect!
> Yes, you need battery power overnight when UNDERWAY, but no more.  Because
> when the sun comes up, you have all the power you need.
> 
> Now, what most "wanna-go-off-grid" people overlook is that when the sun is
> shinning and you are not using the boat underway, then your batteries are
> fully charged and from that point on, y our investment in solar is doing
> you nothing.  Every day, once your batteries are full, there is n o place
> to put the excess power.
> 
> That's where grid tie is a hands down winner.   It lets you bank all your
> excess power at full retail rates... and it helps your fellow man as well
> as  yourself by reducing your carbon footprint
> 
> I'm putting a 3 kW array on a floating deck and two $100 deep cycle marine
> batteries and 2 trolling motors..  The batteries will make it a boat so I
> can register it and make it legal.  The fact that the other 99.9% of the
> time it is feeding my house is gravy.  And because it is a boat, it does
> not violate the rules for piers) and lets me DOUBLE the size of my array on
> the water).. (the only place I have sun.)..  See:
> http://aprs.org/alternative-energy.html about 40% down the page...
> 
> Same goes for RV's that just sit by the house 99% of the time.  Cover them
> with solar panels for when you are remote-wilderness camping, but all the
> rest of the time, let them bacfeed your grid so that you are getting return
> on their investment everyday, every photon,...
> 
> But without grid tie, and net metering, you cannot do anything to your
> advantage with all that solar power. except the 1% of the time you actually
> use the RV or boat.  A terrible return on investment.
> 
> Bob, Wb4APR
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 6:01 PM, Ty Delaney  wrote:
>> 
>> I really appreciate this information. As much as I would like to be free
>> of the grid, I now see I must make a hard, educated decision. The
>> difference for me is I live on a houseboat. I have decent reliability grid
>> shore power when docked. But when I leave the dock I must rely on dirty ice
>> genny. However, because it's a boat, I must carry enough deep cycles to run
>> everything anyway. So for me, it's a question of more batteries more
>> weight, more maintenance or more panels, less weight, maintenance, and more
>> reliance on the sun.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Jan 18, 2016, at 10:28 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> to:
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Converting '51 Chevy (after going off rid?)...

[Ty Delaney via EV]

I really appreciate this information. As much as I would like to be free of the 
grid, I now see I must make a hard, educated decision. The difference for me is 
I live on a houseboat. I have decent reliability grid shore power when docked. 
But when I leave the dock I must rely on dirty ice genny. However, because it's 
a boat, I must carry enough deep cycles to run everything anyway. So for me, 
it's a question of more batteries more weight, more maintenance or more panels, 
less weight, maintenance, and more reliance on the sun.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 18, 2016, at 10:28 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> to:
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: New Spy Pics of GM 200mi EV Interior> Sonic blend

[Ty Delaney via EV]

Not the best place for estop!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 8, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> Can't help but notice the bright red button below the console.  Is it an 
> emergency disconnect for use in the prototype?
> Peri
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "brucedp5 via EV" 
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Sent: 08-Oct-15 1:19:45 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: New Spy Pics of GM 200mi EV Interior> Sonic blend
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 'Blend between the Chevrolet Sonic ice and the new Volt pih'
>> 
>> http://www.motorherald.com/chevy-bolt-ev-interior-revealed-in-new-spy-pics/
>> Chevy Bolt EV Interior Revealed In New Spy Pics
>> Chris Gray | Oct 7, 2015
>> 
>> [images
>> http://www.motorherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/chevy-bolt-02-1.jpg
>> 
>> http://www.motorherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/chevy-bolt-05-1.jpg
>> ]
>> 
>> Interiors of the upcoming Chevy Bolt EV has come to the fore for the first
>> time, which is dominated by digital displays and a BMW-esque gear level.
>> 
>> - Chevy Bolt interiors include large digital displays
>> - Gear level looks similar to those on BMW cars
>> - Gear level also includes dedicated parking button
>> 
>> We have had numerous sightings of the Chevy Bolt EV in test guise though the
>> car’s interiors have always remained off bound. Not any more thanks to some
>> ingenious sleuthing jobs, we now have an idea of sorts of what the car would
>> pack on the inside.
>> 
>> From what seems evident, a large screen in the central stack is the most
>> dominating aspect following by another digital display taking up the place
>> of the instrument cluster behind the steering wheel. Looking at the central
>> console, it isn’t discernible what software is running the show.
>> Interestingly, it does not seem to be the Chevy’s usual MyLink stuff.
>> 
>> The gear shift knob though comes as a surprise given its uncanny resemblance
>> to BMW offerings. The images reveal a dedicated Park button on the gear
>> shift level.
>> 
>> Overall, the interior seems to be the perfect blend between the Chevrolet
>> Sonic and the new Volt and there seems to be no issues in it being so.
>> [© 2015 - MotorHerald.com]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.autoblog.com/2015/10/07/chevy-bolt-interior-spied/
>> Chevy Bolt interior spied for first time
>> Oct 7th 2015 ... Looking like a blend of the Chevy Sonic with the new Volt,
>> the Bolt's interior follows a simple formula, offering a digital display in
>> place of the traditional instrument cluster alongside a large, prominent
>> display in the center stack. Nothing too shocking, except for the fact that
>> both displays look larger than what's in the Volt. What's most surprising,
>> though, is the shifter ...
>> ...
>> http://evobsession.com/chevy-bolt-price-target-confirmed/2015-chevrolet-bolt-ev-interior-bolt-ev-connect/
>> [image
>> http://i0.wp.com/evobsession.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Chevy-Bolt-9.jpg
>> ]
>> ...
>> http://www.chevrolet.com/culture/article/bolt-ev-concept-car.html
>> Bolt EV Concept Car: The Future of EV | Chevrolet
>> The interior of the Bolt EV concept car is intended to feel like a
>> sanctuary. The generous headroom and legroom wonderfully combines with a
>> contemporary, light ...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>> http://evdl.org/evln/
>> 
>> 
>> {brucedp.150m.com}
>> 
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-New-Spy-Pics-of-GM-200mi-EV-Interior-Sonic-Volt-blend-tp4677961.html
>> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
>> Nabble.com.
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