Re: [EVDL] Level 1 charging solar

[Lee Hart via EV]

tomw via EV wrote:

Can you purchase standard PV panels that will fit inside your vehicle? Take
them out at work with some framing made of PVC or similar that you can
easily slip together and set up, then take them down and put them back in
the car at the end of the day. Could make some clips so the panels clip
together and onto the frame.  Kind of a hassle, but if it can be made so it
is a 5 minute job, not too bad.


This inspired a brainstorm. :-)

What if you connected with one of the outdoor advertising (billboard) 
companies? They put up huge signs, high enough to be vandal-proof, and 
strong enough to survive high winds.


Put up a "billboard" to advertise something (anything) that just happens 
to include a PV panel. It could power the advertising sign, *and* 
produce surplus power that you can use for charging. :-)


Maybe the company where you work would allow, or even encourage, or PAY 
FOR a sign with their company name on it, with nice big lighted letters, 
that includes a charging outlet for you.

--
ICEs have the same problem as lightbulbs. Why innovate and make
better ones when the current ones burn out often enough to keep
you in business? -- Hunter Cressall
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Level 1 charging solar

[tomw via EV]

Can you purchase standard PV panels that will fit inside your vehicle? Take
them out at work with some framing made of PVC or similar that you can
easily slip together and set up, then take them down and put them back in
the car at the end of the day. Could make some clips so the panels clip
together and onto the frame.  Kind of a hassle, but if it can be made so it
is a 5 minute job, not too bad.  Then no need for storage of the panels at
work, and you can hopefully park way off in the parking lot where the panels
won't be blocked, and won't be in someone's way.  Hopefully it is not too
windy where you live.

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Re: [EVDL] Level 1 charging solar

[Cor van de Water via EV]

I don't know how this one works - if the interface works well
then just changing the Pilot duty cycle will allow the charger
to tell the car how much it is allowed to pull and when the
solar panel delivers less, the charger should simply shut down
to avoid keeping the car "on" and actually depleting the battery
instead of charging it. Some time ago I read about some experiment that
EMW (Electric Motor Werks) did on I believe a Tesla charging from a
Juicebox where they turned the pilot signal down to only 3A charge
current at 110
I believe that the result was that the charger provided about as much
power as the car consumed between keeping computers running, fans or
battery heaters and other peripherals, so net-net, there was almost no
change in charge after a full night plugged in, but at least it
demonstrated that the Juicebox could successfully convince a car to draw
extremely little power.

Side story here: I have a "Solar Battery Bank" which is a device with
several Lithium cells in parallel inside, a micro USB plug to charge
them up and 2 USB master plugs (A-type) to supply power to charge a
phone or tablet.
I have several of them and they generally work (although Ebay capacity
claims are often 10x overrated) but this one also has a solar panel that
can charge its internal battery. Indeed, as soon as there is decent
ambient light, the processor inside sees the output from the solar panel
and starts blinking the built-in LEDs to indicate that it is charging,
just like when you plug its micro-USB into a wall adapter or computer.
I was afraid that the blinking LEDs would draw more current than the
built-in (small) solar panel provides so I opened it to measure.
Turns out the LEDs are high efficient ones and draw only about 1-2 mA
However, the processor is not low power and when it is on, it also turns
on the DC/DC converter that boosts the 3.7V Lithium output to a stable
5V for the USB ports. Between processor and boost converter, 60mA is
consumed out of the battery.
The solar cell in full sunlight delivers a max current of 150mA.
So, while it is theoretically possible to recharge the battery using the
solar panel, any decent period that sun light is not optimally hitting
the panel will result in a *dis* charging of the battery.
Solution is simple, of course: disconnect the solar panel and wire it
through a blocking Schottky diode directly to the battery, so the
processor does not see the output from the panel and not activate. To
avoid overcharging the battery eventually, a 150mA bypass regulator at
4.2V will do the trick, making the solar charger usable.

Back to solar charging an EV: In downtown Sunnyvale is a solar-powered
charger near the train station on Evelyn, at the other side of Mathilda.
The power is coming from a bank of south-angled solar panels, charging a
battery in an enclosure under the panels. That battery then runs a
stand-alone inverter, connected to the adjacent charging station. If the
light on the charging station is on, it receives power from the
inverter. Once the battery is depleted, the charger turns off.
I do not know the story behind the solar charger and why it is not
simply powered from the grid, but there must be a reason/opportunity
that has likely faded into the past by this time. Two years ago the
charger was not working so several complaints were sent to the city, who
deferred it to the person responsible and eventually it was fixed,
probably a new battery needed to be installed.

However, the charger that was presented here, will not have a battery,
so all I can think is that it is a solar panel and inverter, coupled to
a charging station (which is only a GFCI and contactor and pilot signal
generator) that can modulate the power draw from the EV to the amount of
power available from the panel and gracefully shut down when the power
is lower than the Pilot can go. (Simplest way is to remove the pilot
signal which will cause the EV to stop taking power)

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Alan Arrison
via EV
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 7:38 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Level 1 charging solar

What happens when clouds come by and randomly block the sun?

Do the inverters start up and shut down gracefully?

What does the car do when it sees the AC power going on and off?

Sounds like a recipe for damaged electronics.

Al


On 6/16/2016 3:27 PM, Seth Rothenberg via

Re: [EVDL] Level 1 charging solar

[John Lussmyer via EV]

On Thu Jun 16 20:55:37 PDT 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>There have always been clouds, and yes, the inverters manage it.  It is one
>of their main functions. When the voltage of the supply exceeds the battery
>voltage, the battery is charged (limited by the BMS).  When there is
>insufficient voltage the battery is not charged.  This is not a problem.
>You are identifying the normal operations of any solar photovoltaic system,
>and the battery management of an EV.   Not sure why you think there is a
>problem.

Because with the described setup, there is no communication between the 
Inverter and the Charger.
So, if a few clouds roll in, and the inverter can only put out 300W, but the 
charger wants 600W - you have a brown out, and what happens depends on both 
units.  It's quite possible that the charger would shut off - and stay off 
until manually reset.



--

Tigers prowl and Dragons soar in my dreams...
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Re: [EVDL] Level 1 charging solar

[Michael Ross via EV]

There have always been clouds, and yes, the inverters manage it.  It is one
of their main functions. When the voltage of the supply exceeds the battery
voltage, the battery is charged (limited by the BMS).  When there is
insufficient voltage the battery is not charged.  This is not a problem.
You are identifying the normal operations of any solar photovoltaic system,
and the battery management of an EV.   Not sure why you think there is a
problem.

On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 10:37 PM, Alan Arrison via EV 
wrote:

> What happens when clouds come by and randomly block the sun?
>
> Do the inverters start up and shut down gracefully?
>
> What does the car do when it sees the AC power going on and off?
>
> Sounds like a recipe for damaged electronics.
>
> Al
>
>
> On 6/16/2016 3:27 PM, Seth Rothenberg via EV wrote:
>
>> Friends,
>>
>> I saw a video of someone charging a Nissan Leaf
>> (presumably) using the provided Level 1 charger
>> and flexible solar panels attached to the car.
>> (presumably with an off-grid inverter).
>>
>>
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> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>


-- 
To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. Edison


A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 576-0824  Mobile and
Google Phone

michael.e.r...@gmail.com

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Re: [EVDL] Level 1 charging solar

[Alan Arrison via EV]

What happens when clouds come by and randomly block the sun?

Do the inverters start up and shut down gracefully?

What does the car do when it sees the AC power going on and off?

Sounds like a recipe for damaged electronics.

Al


On 6/16/2016 3:27 PM, Seth Rothenberg via EV wrote:

Friends,

I saw a video of someone charging a Nissan Leaf
(presumably) using the provided Level 1 charger
and flexible solar panels attached to the car.
(presumably with an off-grid inverter).



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Re: [EVDL] Level 1 charging solar

[Seth Rothenberg via EV]

The charging at work challenge is I work for a
mid-sized empire that can't place a work order
for a 5-20R GFCI outlet from their landlord (another empire :-).

There's an SMB across the parking lot that
had no trouble getting one.


The charging @ Forest is not related to camping,
it's only related to getting home.

The Forest is 55 miles from home,
and range is typically 75 depending on
outside temp, use of 4/55 Air Conditioning.
If I park in the woods and hike to AT,
there's no outlet.  If I drive to the AT lot,
there's no outlet.   The AT is
less than a mile from the Park office
opportunity charging/parking.



For @work, another option would be
through-the-window
a Wireless Extension Cord.
5-15P + 5' + "transmitter" +
"receiver" + 5' + 5-15R

I have not seen the above for sale,
nor L1 wireless.   I would need something
Listed by a Testing Laboratory.
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Re: [EVDL] Level 1 charging solar

[Cor van de Water via EV]

The "wireless charger" solutions that I have seen use a modified J1772
plug
that permanently sits behind the closed Leaf door without blocking the
fast charging port, then route internally through the motor bay and
under the car to the wireless receiving unit and logic.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Seth Rothenberg
via EV
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 12:27 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Level 1 charging solar

Friends,

I saw a video of someone charging a Nissan Leaf
(presumably) using the provided Level 1 charger
and flexible solar panels attached to the car.
(presumably with an off-grid inverter).

The video had no information other than showing a
clever routing the EVSE through the absent DCQC knockout.
(I have the DCQC port, so even that's not helpful :-)


I had a related idea.
While I am at work, I presently don't have access to the grid.
But I do have access to the sun.
The included L1 charger draws about 1.4 KW.
But I also have OpenEVSE (being assembled) that can
be configured to draw 5a @ 120V is 600W.
Perhaps 4 panels could provide that (depending on losses).

With an appropriate magnetic mounting system,
4  200W panels could fit.   Then big question then would be
is storage of the panels between uses.  (I am not proposing
driving the panels back and forth).

Has anyone seen a project attempt this?

Thanks
Seth

PS - Good News - I am going camping in a State Forest,
and so far, I have verbal approval to plug in @ the office.
I need to do the math...drop off the gear, drive to office,
plug in, hike the Appalachian Trail a few hours, come back,
drive back to siterepeat tomorrow
There's also a DCQC not far from the Forest.
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Re: [EVDL] Level 1 charging solar

[Cor van de Water via EV]

What is your power consumption in the forest?
When I was camping, all we used were a few 12V lights of a few watts,
so the 50W solar panel and charge controller that I had brought were
actually overkill to keep the small 12V gel cells charged up.
What are you planning to run that you need to haul a 24kWh pack back and
forth?
I'd hate to have vacation and still spend most of the day near the
office only to fetch some juice to help me make it through the night?

I plug in at work while working - that is my only use of a 110 outlet
near the parking lot at work.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Seth Rothenberg
via EV
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 12:27 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Level 1 charging solar

Friends,

I saw a video of someone charging a Nissan Leaf
(presumably) using the provided Level 1 charger
and flexible solar panels attached to the car.
(presumably with an off-grid inverter).

The video had no information other than showing a
clever routing the EVSE through the absent DCQC knockout.
(I have the DCQC port, so even that's not helpful :-)


I had a related idea.
While I am at work, I presently don't have access to the grid.
But I do have access to the sun.
The included L1 charger draws about 1.4 KW.
But I also have OpenEVSE (being assembled) that can
be configured to draw 5a @ 120V is 600W.
Perhaps 4 panels could provide that (depending on losses).

With an appropriate magnetic mounting system,
4  200W panels could fit.   Then big question then would be
is storage of the panels between uses.  (I am not proposing
driving the panels back and forth).

Has anyone seen a project attempt this?

Thanks
Seth

PS - Good News - I am going camping in a State Forest,
and so far, I have verbal approval to plug in @ the office.
I need to do the math...drop off the gear, drive to office,
plug in, hike the Appalachian Trail a few hours, come back,
drive back to siterepeat tomorrow
There's also a DCQC not far from the Forest.
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[EVDL] Level 1 charging solar

[Seth Rothenberg via EV]

Friends,

I saw a video of someone charging a Nissan Leaf
(presumably) using the provided Level 1 charger
and flexible solar panels attached to the car.
(presumably with an off-grid inverter).

The video had no information other than showing a
clever routing the EVSE through the absent DCQC knockout.
(I have the DCQC port, so even that's not helpful :-)


I had a related idea.
While I am at work, I presently don't have access to the grid.
But I do have access to the sun.
The included L1 charger draws about 1.4 KW.
But I also have OpenEVSE (being assembled) that can
be configured to draw 5a @ 120V is 600W.
Perhaps 4 panels could provide that (depending on losses).

With an appropriate magnetic mounting system,
4  200W panels could fit.   Then big question then would be
is storage of the panels between uses.  (I am not proposing
driving the panels back and forth).

Has anyone seen a project attempt this?

Thanks
Seth

PS - Good News - I am going camping in a State Forest,
and so far, I have verbal approval to plug in @ the office.
I need to do the math...drop off the gear, drive to office,
plug in, hike the Appalachian Trail a few hours, come back,
drive back to siterepeat tomorrow
There's also a DCQC not far from the Forest.
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