Re: [EVDL] Possibly use as a Pack->AC inverter?
A lot of the larger UPS are kind of pricey, and you won't find many that will do split phase. I got a steal on Ebay for $500. I had to set up a switch to break my 320V pack in the middle, and a small DPST contactor to parallel the two half packs at 160V. That works out to 12 batteries at 13.3V each and works fine. If you have a ~400V pack (typical of a lot production cars) that could be split to 200V which should work well with a UPS designed for 16 12V batteries (192V). Al On 6/19/2019 10:45 PM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote: On Wed Jun 19 18:32:46 PDT 2019 ev@lists.evdl.org said: How would you hold it at 60Hz? How would you hold the output voltage steady with varying loads? It is a VFD, so it at least holds the frequency steady at whatever you set it to. Hopefully there is some voltage regulation as well. I'm mainly wondering if it requires the inductance of a motor on the output for it to work. I wouldn't chance it. Use a proper device like a UPS. I use a 3KW split phase pure sine wave output UPS to run my whole house. It was made to run on 12 12V batteries, I see a lot of them made for 16 12V batteries. And what is the price of that unit? -- Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Possibly use as a Pack->AC inverter?
David Kerzel via EV wrote: Most of these can run off DC either from DC input terminals or Just run the DC in the AC inputs but derate as if it was a single phase input drive. Input voltage should be nominal RMS AC voltage to peak AC voltage. The drive is a volts/hertz or vector type, and they rely on a 3 phase motor load for feedback. If they can make single phase power it would be pure luck. David Kerzel Modular EV Powe LLC -Original Message- From: EV On Behalf Of John Lussmyer via EV Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:59 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Cc: John Lussmyer Subject: [EVDL] Possibly use as a Pack->AC inverter? This is nominally a 3 phase VFD. Powered by single-phase AC. Seems like it must be converting to DC first anyway, so may allow DC input. It also can drive a single-phase AC motor. Anyone know if this is a likely possibility? It's possible. It depends on the circuit topology it uses, what the programmers expected for a load, and what *you* will connect to it as a load. There are two basic topologies: 1. The input stage is a simple rectifier. It rectifies the incoming AC into DC to produce an unregulated voltage of about 230vac x 1.4 = 320vdc. This powers a DC/AC inverter for the load. This type may not work on DC, unless you have close to 320vdc as your input voltage. 2. The input stage is a PFC boost converter. It boosts the rectifier input voltage from whatever it is to a regulated 350 vdc regardless of the input voltage. This type can often work with a wide range of DC input voltages as well as AC. What the programmers expected for a load: Motors are a complex inductive load. Most VFDs assume an induction motor as their load. They use motor inductance as part of their circuit (just as DC motor controllers use a series DC motor's field as part of their circuit). So it may not work well with a non-motor load. Older/cheaper VFDs have a way to command a speed, and blindly produce an AC voltage and frequency proportional to the desired speed. This works for simple constant-load applications. Many modern/more expensive VFDs try to "tune" themselves to the motor's characteristics. This can provide better torque/speed control, and improve efficiency over a wider range of loads. But this type may not be "happy" with loads that it isn't programmed to detect. Bottom line: You'll just have to try it. It Chinese... You feel lucky, Yank? :-) -- In software development, there are two kinds of error: Conceptual errors, implementation errors, and off-by-one errors. (anonymous) -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Possibly use as a Pack->AC inverter?
On Wed Jun 19 18:32:46 PDT 2019 ev@lists.evdl.org said: >How would you hold it at 60Hz? How would you hold the output voltage >steady with varying loads? It is a VFD, so it at least holds the frequency steady at whatever you set it to. Hopefully there is some voltage regulation as well. I'm mainly wondering if it requires the inductance of a motor on the output for it to work. >I wouldn't chance it. Use a proper device like a UPS. I use a 3KW split >phase pure sine wave output UPS to run my whole house. It was made to >run on 12 12V batteries, I see a lot of them made for 16 12V batteries. And what is the price of that unit? -- Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Possibly use as a Pack->AC inverter?
How would you hold it at 60Hz? How would you hold the output voltage steady with varying loads? I wouldn't chance it. Use a proper device like a UPS. I use a 3KW split phase pure sine wave output UPS to run my whole house. It was made to run on 12 12V batteries, I see a lot of them made for 16 12V batteries. Al On 6/19/2019 8:34 PM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote: The PDF manual for it shows using 2 of the output terminals to drive a single-phase motor. On Wed Jun 19 15:01:56 PDT 2019 ev@lists.evdl.org said: Most of these can run off DC either from DC input terminals or Just run the DC in the AC inputs but derate as if it was a single phase input drive. Input voltage should be nominal RMS AC voltage to peak AC voltage. The drive is a volts/hertz or vector type, and they rely on a 3 phase motor load for feedback. If they can make single phase power it would be pure luck. David Kerzel Modular EV Powe LLC -Original Message- From: EV On Behalf Of John Lussmyer via EV Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:59 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Cc: John Lussmyer Subject: [EVDL] Possibly use as a Pack->AC inverter? This is nominally a 3 phase VFD. Powered by single-phase AC. Seems like it must be converting to DC first anyway, so may allow DC input. It also can drive a single-phase AC motor. Anyone know if this is a likely possibility? https://www.banggood.com/4KW-220V-20A-Single-Phase-Input-3-Phase-Output-PWM- Frequency-Converter-Drive-Inverter-5HP-VFD-VSD-p-1286175.html?akmClientCount ry=America_design=41_source=emarsys_medium=Mail_mailad378_us _campaign=newsletteremarsys_content=elaine_src=email_3730686_eh=92 c2e4cd8c9145e61_llid=244306_lid=151992224_uid=FUWKwM3ggA_wareho use=CN -- Try my Sensible Email package! https://sourceforge.net/projects/sensibleemail/ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Possibly use as a Pack->AC inverter?
Most of these can run off DC either from DC input terminals or Just run the DC in the AC inputs but derate as if it was a single phase input drive. Input voltage should be nominal RMS AC voltage to peak AC voltage. The drive is a volts/hertz or vector type, and they rely on a 3 phase motor load for feedback. If they can make single phase power it would be pure luck. David Kerzel Modular EV Powe LLC -Original Message- From: EV On Behalf Of John Lussmyer via EV Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:59 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Cc: John Lussmyer Subject: [EVDL] Possibly use as a Pack->AC inverter? This is nominally a 3 phase VFD. Powered by single-phase AC. Seems like it must be converting to DC first anyway, so may allow DC input. It also can drive a single-phase AC motor. Anyone know if this is a likely possibility? https://www.banggood.com/4KW-220V-20A-Single-Phase-Input-3-Phase-Output-PWM- Frequency-Converter-Drive-Inverter-5HP-VFD-VSD-p-1286175.html?akmClientCount ry=America_design=41_source=emarsys_medium=Mail_mailad378_us _campaign=newsletteremarsys_content=elaine_src=email_3730686_eh=92 c2e4cd8c9145e61_llid=244306_lid=151992224_uid=FUWKwM3ggA_wareho use=CN -- Bobcats and Cougars, oh my! http://john.casadelgato.com/Pets ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
