Re: [EVDL] FrankenVolt coming along...

2020-05-18 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV 
Great info.

Yes, I considered the extra 12v battery and then 120v inverter at 1.5 kW to
drive an L1 cord, but as you say, it would

Be quite inefficient.  With the 240W solar panel, probably giving a total
of 1kWh per day (average per year at my latitude), then that would only
give about 50 minutes of charging at L1.  Hardly worth it.



So my probable use is:

1)  Wire solar charger to 12v battery for charging/maintenance – AND
providing 12v power for when car is ON and sitting, to reduce the static
VOLT load of about 500W when sitting-and-ON.  Can anyone confirm the true
energy load when Volt is ON and parked?



2)  Wire to small GT inverter connected to J1772 charging socket so
that while sun is shining and Volt is plugged in, then my home grid gets
the power.  But then I have to standardisze on either a 120v GT inverter
and only L1 charging or go with a 240v GT inverter and only use L2
charging..  But only the 120v GT inverters are cheap enough to be practical
here (about $75 each)



My Volt is already configured with a 1500 W quasi-sine inverter in the
trunk just for routine running of tools, etc and lighting/refrigerator in
the house when the grid goes down.  So that is why having the 240W of solar
panels can provide some benefit.



Frankenvolt:  http://aprs.org/my-EVs.html



Yesterday I completed the rear-end sidecurtain stuff and it seems I was
able to do it with flat plywood sidecurtains and a modestly curved piece of
plywood and plexiglass across the back.  I was amazed that I could find
surfaces where the mostly flat plywood would fit and close the gaps.



Bob





*From:* Marco Gaxiola 
*Sent:* Monday, May 18, 2020 2:05 PM
*To:* Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
*Cc:* Robert Bruninga 
*Subject:* Re: [EVDL] FrankenVolt coming along...



That is correct, none of the HV wiring outside the battery pack will
energize, before those internal HV contactors pre-charing, closing and
energizing the HV bus first before any HV module can draw or add energy
from the pack.



The magic process starts typically when you plug your J1772 EVSE on a
120Vac outlet. (L1) there is only a small number of modules on the Volt-EV
that wakes up after Pilot signal handshaking with the EVSE, and all this
happens on the 12V side first.



After a few validations, one of those awaken modules have the ability to
wake up the BMS inside the battery pack and also provide 12V power, so the
BMS can close the HV contactors (generally 2 for charging), and those may
be ones requiring most power than everything else during that L1 session.



To put in some numbers: maybe 3 CAN modules awaken drawing 1A each, plus
those 2 HV contactors, maybe 1A each = 5Amps total, that would represent
70watts approx. This without considering if the DCDC also wakes up and your
12V battery is low and requires charging. Although this would be
temporarily and as soon your 12V batt enters floatation mode, that power
will be insignificant.



So, in the case you would be able to do all that magic, to avoid opening
the pack and bypass that HV circuitry; then you may want to have a trigger
point from your PV that can ensure you will not produce less power than
that 'static' required to keep those 12V modules. And still you would be at
risk if the vehicle 12V batt is too low, rather than charging the HV pack,
you will discharge it for maybe 20-40mins. But the good thing on this is
that your 12V batt will be full now and that is the most important thing to
start with. (no 12V batt, no HV even-though HV batt full).



But not a grid-tie inverter, that will not work if it doesn't see a 120V
since wave, you just need a 12Vdc -> 120Vac 1.5Kw continuous power
inverter, powered by an additional 12V battery that is charged from your
PV. That may be the most practical way, not best efficient, but easy to do
method if I'm not missing something else.







On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 8:39 AM Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

I assume those conductors are not alive until the main contactor inside
the battery box is activated.  And once those are activated through some
kind of volt software magic, the static load of powering up the system
will draw more power than the 240 watts the solar panels can produce.

Bob


-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal via EV
Subject: Re: [EVDL] FrankenVolt coming along...

> Oh, and I still welcome anyone with info on where I can easily access
> the 300V battery terminals for charging.

> Maybe use vampire splice connectors on the high voltage cables to the
Accessory "Power Control Module" in the trunk?
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Re: [EVDL] FrankenVolt coming along...

2020-05-18 Thread Marco Gaxiola via EV 
That is correct, none of the HV wiring outside the battery pack will
energize, before those internal HV contactors pre-charing, closing and
energizing the HV bus first before any HV module can draw or add energy
from the pack.

The magic process starts typically when you plug your J1772 EVSE on a
120Vac outlet. (L1) there is only a small number of modules on the Volt-EV
that wakes up after Pilot signal handshaking with the EVSE, and all this
happens on the 12V side first.

After a few validations, one of those awaken modules have the ability to
wake up the BMS inside the battery pack and also provide 12V power, so the
BMS can close the HV contactors (generally 2 for charging), and those may
be ones requiring most power than everything else during that L1 session.

To put in some numbers: maybe 3 CAN modules awaken drawing 1A each, plus
those 2 HV contactors, maybe 1A each = 5Amps total, that would represent
70watts approx. This without considering if the DCDC also wakes up and your
12V battery is low and requires charging. Although this would be
temporarily and as soon your 12V batt enters floatation mode, that power
will be insignificant.

So, in the case you would be able to do all that magic, to avoid opening
the pack and bypass that HV circuitry; then you may want to have a trigger
point from your PV that can ensure you will not produce less power than
that 'static' required to keep those 12V modules. And still you would be at
risk if the vehicle 12V batt is too low, rather than charging the HV pack,
you will discharge it for maybe 20-40mins. But the good thing on this is
that your 12V batt will be full now and that is the most important thing to
start with. (no 12V batt, no HV even-though HV batt full).

But not a grid-tie inverter, that will not work if it doesn't see a 120V
since wave, you just need a 12Vdc -> 120Vac 1.5Kw continuous power
inverter, powered by an additional 12V battery that is charged from your
PV. That may be the most practical way, not best efficient, but easy to do
method if I'm not missing something else.



On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 8:39 AM Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

> I assume those conductors are not alive until the main contactor inside
> the battery box is activated.  And once those are activated through some
> kind of volt software magic, the static load of powering up the system
> will draw more power than the 240 watts the solar panels can produce.
>
> Bob
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV  On Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal via EV
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] FrankenVolt coming along...
>
> > Oh, and I still welcome anyone with info on where I can easily access
> > the 300V battery terminals for charging.
>
> > Maybe use vampire splice connectors on the high voltage cables to the
> Accessory "Power Control Module" in the trunk?
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] FrankenVolt coming along...

2020-05-18 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV 
I assume those conductors are not alive until the main contactor inside
the battery box is activated.  And once those are activated through some
kind of volt software magic, the static load of powering up the system
will draw more power than the 240 watts the solar panels can produce.

Bob


-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal via EV
Subject: Re: [EVDL] FrankenVolt coming along...

> Oh, and I still welcome anyone with info on where I can easily access
> the 300V battery terminals for charging.

> Maybe use vampire splice connectors on the high voltage cables to the
Accessory "Power Control Module" in the trunk?
___
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Re: [EVDL] FrankenVolt coming along...

2020-05-18 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV 
Thanks for the info.



I figured it was probably not easy (it was easy on the Priuws, but no more).

I’ll probably just but in a grid-tie inverter and tie that to the 120v
charge pins so that at least while the sun is shining and the car is
plugged in (at home), I’ll be getting the value of the electricity either
into the car or more likely back into my home grid.



When I retire in 30 days, then finally the volt will be at h ome when the
sun is shining.



Thanks

Bob



*From:* Marco Gaxiola 
*Sent:* Sunday, May 17, 2020 6:14 PM
*To:* Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
*Cc:* Robert Bruninga 
*Subject:* Re: [EVDL] FrankenVolt coming along...



Hey Robert,



I was wondering and tempted to email you to ask what was your progress on
that. Keep us posted, want to know how you'll solve charging the HV battery
from your PV.



With regards an 'easy' way to access to the HV battery terminals. I believe
it won't find that. You either will have to power and gain control of the
internal electronics in order to close the HV contactors and make an
external splice on the HV wiring, or you'll have to open that pack and
manually tap before those contactors.



Be careful when cutting any HV orange wiring for doing the splice; they
come with a dual insulation with a grounding shield wrap in between (like a
Coax TV cable, but way more sophisticated). And if you don't take proper
precautions in keeping the high impedance/good isolation against GND; you
will set isolation faults on your Volt ECU (DTCs).



Marco



On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:44 PM Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

The FrankenVolt is coming along: http://aprs.org/my-EVs.html

The front panel and the added two-panels are finished.  I'm working on the
side curtains now for when the hatch is set level.

Last night, I got the design in place made of cardboard to make the
patterns and see if they would fit.  They do!  Now all I have to do is
sneak in some build-time between honeydoos.

Oh, and I still welcome anyone with info on where I can easily access the
300V battery terminals for charging.

Bob, WB4APR
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Re: [EVDL] FrankenVolt coming along...

2020-05-17 Thread Marco Gaxiola via EV 
Hey Robert,

I was wondering and tempted to email you to ask what was your progress on
that. Keep us posted, want to know how you'll solve charging the HV battery
from your PV.

With regards an 'easy' way to access to the HV battery terminals. I believe
it won't find that. You either will have to power and gain control of the
internal electronics in order to close the HV contactors and make an
external splice on the HV wiring, or you'll have to open that pack and
manually tap before those contactors.

Be careful when cutting any HV orange wiring for doing the splice; they
come with a dual insulation with a grounding shield wrap in between (like a
Coax TV cable, but way more sophisticated). And if you don't take proper
precautions in keeping the high impedance/good isolation against GND; you
will set isolation faults on your Volt ECU (DTCs).

Marco

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:44 PM Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

> The FrankenVolt is coming along: http://aprs.org/my-EVs.html
>
> The front panel and the added two-panels are finished.  I'm working on the
> side curtains now for when the hatch is set level.
>
> Last night, I got the design in place made of cardboard to make the
> patterns and see if they would fit.  They do!  Now all I have to do is
> sneak in some build-time between honeydoos.
>
> Oh, and I still welcome anyone with info on where I can easily access the
> 300V battery terminals for charging.
>
> Bob, WB4APR
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] FrankenVolt coming along...

2020-05-17 Thread Peter VanDerWal via EV 
> Oh, and I still welcome anyone with info on where I can easily access the
> 300V battery terminals for charging.
> 

Maybe use vampire splice connectors on the high voltage cables to the  
Accessory "Power Control Module" in the trunk?
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[EVDL] FrankenVolt coming along...

2020-05-14 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV 
The FrankenVolt is coming along: http://aprs.org/my-EVs.html

The front panel and the added two-panels are finished.  I'm working on the
side curtains now for when the hatch is set level.

Last night, I got the design in place made of cardboard to make the
patterns and see if they would fit.  They do!  Now all I have to do is
sneak in some build-time between honeydoos.

Oh, and I still welcome anyone with info on where I can easily access the
300V battery terminals for charging.

Bob, WB4APR
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