Re: [EVDL] Reposting, Still Need Help, 86 Year Old Uncle Still TryingAfter 34 Years to Get Bucket List GE EV1-B Based EV Car Running

[Matt Awesome via EV]

> The GE EV-1 SCR controller is quite similar to yours, but the SCR controller 
> in your pictures is *not* and EV-1

Hrm, okay.

> (and possibly not a GE product ;^).

It's definitely a GE. Transformer says GE right on it, and, other
parts of the schematic say GE I'm sure. And I'm certain the schematic
is for mine because I peeled it off the inside of the forklift I
pulled the controller and motor from.

> Google isn't any help figuring out if this is an earlier GE model or not.

It's from a 1969 York forklift. Google returned nadda.

> The person seeking help has a bit different situation than you or I (I also 
> have an EV with a GE EV-1 controller in it), since he is electrically 
> reversing the motor and so cannot simply eliminate the directional switch(es) 
> and contactors like we did.

I understand this but, when troubleshooting you cut out everything but
the essentials to reduce your variables, then add them back as needed.
If you can get the speed controller part of it working then it's just
a matter of bloating it back up.

You'd know this but since no one's mentioned it yet, the EVDL library
has lots of info on the actual EV-1 controller.
http://evdl.org/lib/index.html
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Re: [EVDL] Reposting, Still Need Help, 86 Year Old Uncle Still TryingAfter 34 Years to Get Bucket List GE EV1-B Based EV Car Running

[Roger Stockton via EV]

Matt Awesome wrote:

> Wait, I had this backwards. I thought we *were* discussing the EV-1
> vehicle, not the forklift controller.

Nope; it is confusing at first glance, but the EV-1 *car* was a Chevy, while 
the EV-1 *controller* is a GE product ;^>

> If we're talking about the forklift controller I can help! I stripped
> mine down to the bare minimum required to make it run.
>
> Here is a link to an album, where you should be able to click on
> individual high-res pictures: https://imgur.com/a/Y560sqp

The GE EV-1 SCR controller is quite similar to yours, but the SCR controller in 
your pictures is *not* and EV-1 (and possibly not a GE product ;^).  The 
drawings appear to identify it as a "STD. K70C M500 SCR", but Google isn't any 
help figuring out if this is an earlier GE model or not.

The person seeking help has a bit different situation than you or I (I also 
have an EV with a GE EV-1 controller in it), since he is electrically reversing 
the motor and so cannot simply eliminate the directional switch(es) and 
contactors like we did.

Cheers,

Roger.


> 
> Basically you can ignore almost everything and just gut it right down
> to its essentials to get the motor to run.
> 
> After cutting out all excess stuff out, you're left with some pretty
> minimal connections to make:
> - The motor connects to positive.
> - One motor field connects to one motor armature, doens't matter which
> for testing, it just sets direction.
> - The motor connects to the speed controller.
> - The speed controller connects to negative.
> - The foot pedal potentiometer connects to the controller (pin 29?)
> - The foot pedal "power on" switch connects to a contactor, or a dummy
> load to fool it to thinking there's a contactor there. (pin 41,
> through dummy load to positive?)
> 
> I think that's all, there might be a wire or two I'm missing but, there
> you go.
> 
> Does that help? I don't have it in front of me and I'm quite rusty
> since it was a year ago that I figured this out, got it working, and
> then abandoned it for another controller... but I'm pretty sure I
> could walk you through it if need be.
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Re: [EVDL] Reposting, Still Need Help, 86 Year Old Uncle Still TryingAfter 34 Years to Get Bucket List GE EV1-B Based EV Car Running

[Matt Awesome via EV]

> Cor, while your GE controller might well have had similar (or identical) 
> switch input requirements as the GE EV-1 SCR controller in question, it is 
> worth noting that your controller was *not* an EV-1.

Wait, I had this backwards. I thought we *were* discussing the EV-1
vehicle, not the forklift controller.

If we're talking about the forklift controller I can help! I stripped
mine down to the bare minimum required to make it run.

Here is a link to an album, where you should be able to click on
individual high-res pictures: https://imgur.com/a/Y560sqp

Basically you can ignore almost everything and just gut it right down
to its essentials to get the motor to run.

After cutting out all excess stuff out, you're left with some pretty
minimal connections to make:
- The motor connects to positive.
- One motor field connects to one motor armature, doens't matter which
for testing, it just sets direction.
- The motor connects to the speed controller.
- The speed controller connects to negative.
- The foot pedal potentiometer connects to the controller (pin 29?)
- The foot pedal "power on" switch connects to a contactor, or a dummy
load to fool it to thinking there's a contactor there. (pin 41,
through dummy load to positive?)

I think that's all, there might be a wire or two I'm missing but, there you go.

Does that help? I don't have it in front of me and I'm quite rusty
since it was a year ago that I figured this out, got it working, and
then abandoned it for another controller... but I'm pretty sure I
could walk you through it if need be.
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Re: [EVDL] Reposting, Still Need Help, 86 Year Old Uncle Still TryingAfter 34 Years to Get Bucket List GE EV1-B Based EV Car Running

[Roger Stockton via EV]

Cor van de Water wrote:

> Not that I remember that this was a requirement for the GE EV1
> controller.
> That would also not have worked for my controller, [...]

Cor, while your GE controller might well have had similar (or identical) switch 
input requirements as the GE EV-1 SCR controller in question, it is worth 
noting that your controller was *not* an EV-1.  The EV-1 is an older, SCR, 
controller, while yours was a newer GE IGBT controller (I suspect one of the 
EVT-xxx models, where the 'T' appears to indicate "transistor", either MOSFET 
or IGBT).

This page provides pictures and manuals for several models of GE controllers 
(EV-1, EV-10, EV-100, etc.):



The EV-1 logic does require several switches to open/close in proper sequence 
(and sometimes timing) to enable operation when wired as originally intended 
(for lift truck applications where a key, seat, brake, and direction switch 
were all normally present), but when installed in an on-road EV (especially 
with a transmission), it is common practice to wire the controller to defeat 
the built-in safeties associated with these inputs.

Cheers,

Roger.
 
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Re: [EVDL] Reposting, Still Need Help, 86 Year Old Uncle Still TryingAfter 34 Years to Get Bucket List GE EV1-B Based EV Car Running

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Not that I remember that this was a requirement for the GE EV1 controller.
That would also not have worked for my controller, since the converter retained 
the automatic transmission,
So as soon as the vehicle was started, the controller started “idling” the 
motor, to keep the automatic transmission pump up to pressure.
The idling was simply a trim pot added to the accelerator pot and set low 
enough to not throw an error from excessive throttle input, which *was* checked 
during startup: you could not start the truck with the accelerator to the 
floor, but a slight idling voltage was OK.
Braking did not affect the motor speed, apparently the brake switch input was 
bypassed.
Even the reversing contactors were removed (or not installed) as the 
transmission provided F/R selection.
No seat switch either, just “ignition” to go, after checking pre-close voltage 
on the controller output.
Cor.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Gary Krysztopik via EV
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2018 3:03 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Gary Krysztopik
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Reposting, Still Need Help, 86 Year Old Uncle Still 
TryingAfter 34 Years to Get Bucket List GE EV1-B Based EV Car Running

I know the manual doesn't specify, but usually you need to have your foot
on the brake before putting a car in gear.  Maybe they missed this detail
in the manual.

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018, 10:35 AM ptandjb Frontier via EV 
wrote:

> To All,
>
>
>
> I am reposting from last year asking for any available advice as me and my
> cousin continue to try to help get my uncle's EV project started in 1984 to
> a successful conclusion.
>
>
>
> I am still trying to help my uncle realize his main bucket list item while
> there is still time. He has been working off and on for over 30 years to
> slowly build an electric car. When he attempted to power it for the first
> time last year the controller failed to trigger the contactors to send
> power
> to the motor. He said all he wants to do is to drive this car at least once
> before he dies. He gets up every day and puts on his union machinist suit
> and goes to work in a construction company warehouse in Ludlow
> Massachusetts
> doing maintenance and machinery repair. He has started talking about
> retiring and would then need to find another location for the EV project
> car
> if it is not yet finished. So I was asked to come take a look.  In my
> distant past I have a degree in electrical engineering and have experience
> with SCR controlled injection molding machines so theoretically I should
> technically understand all documentation and pretty much understand how
> things should work.
>
>
>
>
>
> The car chassis was hand built:
>
>
>
> http://ptandjb.com/eddiesEV1/carfront0491.JPG
>
>
>
> http://ptandjb.com/eddiesEV1/carside0490.JPG
>
>
>
> Overview of controller assembly:
>
>
>
> http://ptandjb.com/eddiesEV1/EV1fullview0483.JPG
>
>
>
> http://ptandjb.com/eddiesEV1/EV1closeup0485.JPG
>
>
>
> I had thought last year we had proven that the EV1-B controller was
> defective and went back last month to try to disassemble and test the
> controller. We repeated our original investigation, with SEAT and BRAKE
> switches bypassed and KEY, FWD, and ACCEL switches appropriately set there
> was no contactor activation. Looking more carefully at the documentation, I
> realized that I had not considered STATIC RETURN TO OFF and PULSE MONITOR
> TRIP requirements, and could no longer conclude I had proven the controller
> defective. I was confused as the exact process (see confusing manual
> excerpts below). Because I was not up to speed on these requirements, we
> called it a day and I came home to study documentation and try to figure
> out
> a way forward. An initial successful outcome would be sending power to the
> motors in forward or reverse in START ACCELERATION mode.
>
>
>
> From the manuals:
>
>
>
> The control circuit is energized by closing the Key switch, Seat switch,
> and
> moving the Forward or Reverse lever to either position and then depressing
> the accelerator, thus closing the Start switch. This applies power to the
> control card and, if the "static return to OFF" requirement and the pulse
> monitor trip requirement are satisfied, turns on the PMT driver, which will
> close the selected directional contactor, completing the circuit to the
> traction motor. The directional contactor is controlled by the directional
> switch.
>
> *  STATIC RETURN TO OFF - this built-in feature of the control requires
> the operator to return the directional lever to NEUTRAL anytime he leaves
> the vehicle and returns. If the Seat switch or Key switch is opened, the
> control will shut off and cannot be res

Re: [EVDL] Reposting, Still Need Help, 86 Year Old Uncle Still TryingAfter 34 Years to Get Bucket List GE EV1-B Based EV Car Running

[Cor van de Water via EV]

I had a 1989 Ford Ranger from the city of Santa Rosa that was converted to 
electric somewhere around 1994 in Grass Valley.
It used the 120V variant of the GE forklift drive.
Service manuals were not easy to dig through, but in my experience, there is 
very little that goes wrong with the controller card unless you miswire 
something. My only failures were blown (shorted) IGBT and freewheel diode. That 
will be detected by the controller card as voltage out of range during initial 
startup, because it will test for voltage present before closing any 
contactors, then try to pre-charge the power stage and verify that the voltage 
is doing what it is supposed to do (go from min to max) and only then it will 
close the big contactors to drive power.
It is easy to verify with a multimeter if there is any short on the switching 
transistor and diode.
Also you can follow the test wiring from the output stage back to the 
controller card. Compare to the service manual.
I hope this helps, let me know if you have further questions,
Cor.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Lawrence Rhodes via EV
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 6:36 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org; ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org; ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Lawrence Rhodes
Subject: [EVDL] Reposting, Still Need Help, 86 Year Old Uncle Still TryingAfter 
34 Years to Get Bucket List GE EV1-B Based EV Car Running

I had a Jet truck from that era. The manual was huge. A little hard to 
understand. Some how I got it running.  Loved how it drove.  However it seemed 
inefficient.  The motor/controller was noisy. What voltage are you running?  Do 
you have a 12 volt battery? As an option you might think about a Curtis type 
controller.  Up running in short order.  Lawrence Rhodes
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