Re: [EVDL] Stranded ICE assets
On 04/26/2020 19:55, Lee Hart via EV wrote: Yes, if you live in a big city (especially in California), seeing EVs is a daily occurrence. CA is reporting something like 15 EVs per 1000 people. Daily? Here in the Los Angeles suburbs, I can't go more than a minute or two on the freeway without seeing an EV. They're everywhere... -- 73 - Jim Walls - K6CCC j...@k6ccc.org Ofc: 818-548-4804 http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/ AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Stranded ICE assets
Willie via EV wrote: Everyone has his own view and perceptions of the elephant. The three blind men parable. I agree. You may be standing at the front end of the elephant, where things are pretty interesting. But I happen to be standing at the tail-end, where things don't smell so nice. Yes, they've sold over a million EVs in the US; but that's only about 1% of ICE sales. That's hardly what I'd call a "tipping point". Yes, if you live in a big city (especially in California), seeing EVs is a daily occurrence. CA is reporting something like 15 EVs per 1000 people. But where I live in the midwest, it's less than 1 per 1000 people. The only places with a significant number of EVs are in the big cities (Chicago, Minneapolis, etc). Yes, many countries are doing far better than the US at adopting and converting their vehicle fleets to EVs. But since we keep selling millions more ICEs every year, vehicle emissions have continue to rise 2-3% per year, every year, and have been for at least the past 10 years. You know I'm a strong proponent of EVs! But I also have to be realistic. We're winning the war (slowly); but we're not there yet! Lee Hart -- Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory, and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Stranded ICE assets
Wow! Glad to hear this Willie. To review: I went to the FC event expecting poor attendance, maybe a few hundred or a thousand. The event was mobbed to the point of inability of attendees to see what they wanted to see. I don't have attendance figures but I would guess tens of thousands. As I mentioned, I did some shuttling between parking and the event. The shuttling service was mobbed. Long lines for both the Teslas shuttles and the regular buses. I got a chance to chat with many. All sorts of people. Not all well informed but all enthusiastic about EVs and all seeking enlightenment. You can find my blog entry for the event. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Stranded ICE assets
Oddly, fuel prices where I live (SF Bay Area) really haven’t changed much. Still a bit over $3 per gallon for regular. Has been that way for several months at least. Tom Keenan > On Apr 26, 2020, at 3:09 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: > > EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: >>> Electric adoption will happen much quicker if the security of the oil supply >>> changes or the price of oil skyrockets or people become aware of the harm >>> and >>> cost pumping, refining and burning fossil fuel poses. >> >> Awareness of the harm won't do it. It's not sufficiently immediate, and >> it's not personal. A few people kind of care, but it's mostly lip service, >> forgotten as soon as the car sales person starts to push yet another big ICE >> SUV. > > Sadly, I agree. Most people are too wrapped up in their day-to-day "instant > gratification" lives to care about any big-picture issues. > > Today, gas is cheap; so they don't/won't think about EVs. > > "Herd memory" is also a strange thing. What's happening today drowns out > whatever happened before; so it comes as a total surprise if it happens again. > > Thus, they barely noticed that gas prices have fallen 2:1. But watch the hue > and cry when they go back up 2:1! They barely notice that the air got cleaner > without all the ICE pollution. But here them shout when it shoots back up > again when the crisis passes! > > If we lived in a logical world with rational people, we would have already > switched to EVs. Instead, we balance at the tipping point, with powerful > forces pushing us back away from the brink. > > Lee Hart > > -- > Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all > our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory, > and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry > -- > Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Stranded ICE assets
On 4/26/20 5:09 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: If we lived in a logical world with rational people, we would have already switched to EVs. Instead, we balance at the tipping point, with powerful forces pushing us back away from the brink. Everyone has his own view and perceptions of the elephant. The three blind men parable. As I think I posted right after the Fully Charged event at the F1 track near Austin a few months ago, I am now convinced that we are past the tipping point and there will be no turning back. There is nothing GM and the oil companies can do again to subvert. Short of Aramco buying Tesla. To review: I went to the FC event expecting poor attendance, maybe a few hundred or a thousand. The event was mobbed to the point of inability of attendees to see what they wanted to see. I don't have attendance figures but I would guess tens of thousands. As I mentioned, I did some shuttling between parking and the event. The shuttling service was mobbed. Long lines for both the Teslas shuttles and the regular buses. I got a chance to chat with many. All sorts of people. Not all well informed but all enthusiastic about EVs and all seeking enlightenment. You can find my blog entry for the event. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Stranded ICE assets
EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: Electric adoption will happen much quicker if the security of the oil supply changes or the price of oil skyrockets or people become aware of the harm and cost pumping, refining and burning fossil fuel poses. Awareness of the harm won't do it. It's not sufficiently immediate, and it's not personal. A few people kind of care, but it's mostly lip service, forgotten as soon as the car sales person starts to push yet another big ICE SUV. Sadly, I agree. Most people are too wrapped up in their day-to-day "instant gratification" lives to care about any big-picture issues. Today, gas is cheap; so they don't/won't think about EVs. "Herd memory" is also a strange thing. What's happening today drowns out whatever happened before; so it comes as a total surprise if it happens again. Thus, they barely noticed that gas prices have fallen 2:1. But watch the hue and cry when they go back up 2:1! They barely notice that the air got cleaner without all the ICE pollution. But here them shout when it shoots back up again when the crisis passes! If we lived in a logical world with rational people, we would have already switched to EVs. Instead, we balance at the tipping point, with powerful forces pushing us back away from the brink. Lee Hart -- Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory, and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Stranded ICE assets
On 26 Apr 2020 at 15:51, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: > Electric adoption will happen much quicker if the security of the oil supply > changes or the price of oil skyrockets or people become aware of the harm and > cost pumping, refining and burning fossil fuel poses. Awareness of the harm won't do it. It's not sufficiently immediate, and it's not personal. A few people kind of care, but it's mostly lip service, forgotten as soon as the car sales person starts to push yet another big ICE SUV. Fuel price has a somewhat stronger effect on EV adoption. Gasoline is around $6-7 a gallon in Europe, and that's helped some. So have their discounts on EV taxes and fees. Of the 3 factors you mention, fuel availability has the largest effect. Most people will gripe at high fuel prices, but will still pay them. However, if you make them try 5 or 6 filling stations before they find one that's open, or if they have to wait in line for an hour or two to fill the tank, that's when they'll start to see the convenience of just-plug-it-in EV charging. The very strongest EV incentive is still direct government manipulation. EVs have been a big success in Norway because the country has crippling purchase taxes on ICEVs, but not on EVs. EVs are also doing fairly well in big cities that levy congestion charges and/or day-based exclusions on ICEVs and not on EVs. In the US, ICEVs and fuel for them aren't priced in line with the harm they cause to society. Meanwhile, even with subsidies, EVs aren't competitively priced. Until those factors change, EVs won't become a truly common sight on US roads. Those factors are purely political. Nothing in the US's political landscape suggests that they'll change any time soon. Don't hold your breath. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Stranded ICE assets
Electric adoption will happen much quicker if the security of the oil supply changes or the price of oil skyrockets or people become aware of the harm and cost pumping, refining and burning fossil fuel poses. Take a look at what some of our math loving humans have done. One friend of mine paid for his EV with fuel cost savings. Another thing look at is the current state of the planet. Visible improvement of our environment. Once you know there will be a rush to sell ICE vehicles and the prices will plummet. Prices of used vehicles and fuel will fluctuate then drop to scrap prices. It may happen sooner than you think. Lawrence Rhodes ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
