Re: [EVDL] Why SUVs are popular (Solar Panels On EV)

[(-Phil-) via EV]

My point is complaining about it doesn't get you anywhere.  Get your
friends and relatives to boycott SUVs and then someone will pop up to sell
a decent small efficient EV, even if it's not GM or Ford.

Manufacturers keep trying.  There's the failed-in-US Smart division of
Daimler, The Mini which is slowly getting bigger and bigger like the
original CVCC.  Sales aren't worth their effort.  Doesn't matter if it's
because of the big guy's marketing budgets.  HOW DO WE FIX IT?

On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 1:39 AM Steves via EV  wrote:

> I agree completely. They don’t make the Volt anymore. It was never really
> advertised, except perhaps before and when it first came out. But it was
> really never pushed. And it is a do everything car. EV mode for daily
> needs, gas for long trips, fold down seats and hatchback to carry stuff.
> Reasonable price. But I’m sure it wasn’t a moneymaker. Highest margins are
> on pickups and SUVs do that’s what they push.
>
> Advertising , sadly, works. I remember reading an article one time about
> why well known brands like Coke advertise. They said if they stopped
> advertising then after a while people would stop buying it.
>
> -Steve
>
> > On Apr 22, 2021, at 4:16 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> >
> > One more time.
> >
> > Very few people buy the products they need.  They buy the products that
> are
> > SOLD to them.  Ask any advertising professional or media person.  That's
> > their business.
> >
> > No other factor in purchasing decisions carries anything close to
> > advertising's weight.
> >
> > It may be difficult for you to understand or believe this because you,
> like
> > most folks here, are probably more a "thinker" than a "feeler."  Trust
> me,
> > you're atypical.
> >
> > Fifty years ago, pickup trucks were for tradespeople and farmers.  A
> 1970s
> > teenage boy would do almost anything to avoid having to drive dad's
> pickup
> > on a date.
> >
> > SUVs were for hunters, campers, and sportsmen.  "Normal" people didn't
> buy
> > them because they were clumsy, ugly, and "drove like trucks," which is
> what
> > they were.
> >
> > Then came CAFE.  Trucks were exempt from CAFE regulations.  The
> automakers
> > despised CAFE, so they began advertising trucks and SUVs heavily.
> >
> > If you can't guess what happened next, just read the first paragraph at
> the
> > top of this message.
> >
> > The ads still push pickups, SUVs, and now crossovers (clumsy, topheavy,
> > overweight, overpowered station wagons).  In fact, the automakers
> advertise
> > almost nothing else.
> >
> > So people buy pickups, SUVs, and crossovers, regardless of what they
> really
> > need.  They literally never even consider anyhing else.  That's why both
> Lee
> > and I see driveways here in the midwest stuffed with 3 or 4 or 5
> vehicles,
> > and every bloody one of them is a pickup or SUV.
> >
> > When Hyundai wanted to establish themselvs in the US market in the
> 1980s,
> > they advertised their subcompact Excel.  It wasn't a very good car, but
> they
> > sold a lot of them, because they advertised it.
> >
> > If the automakers wanted to sell small cars, ICEV or EV, they'd
> advertise
> > them.  They don't, and they don't.
> >
> > When the automakers want to sell EVs in the US, they'll advertise them
> here.
> > They don't, and they don't.
> >
> > David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
> >
> > To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> > offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > If you made a column of things you're pretty sure you know, and
> > then made another column of how you know those things, most of
> > that column is like: "Some guy told me." It's just clickbait
> > and hearsay.  Goes into the head, locks onto a feeling, you're
> > like: "That sounds good. I'm gonna tell other people that." And
> > that's how brand marketing works, and also fascism, we're
> > finding.
> >
> > -- Marc Maron
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
> > ___
> > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
> > No other addresses in TO and CC fields
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>
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Re: [EVDL] Why SUVs are popular (Solar Panels On EV)

[Steves via EV]

I agree completely. They don’t make the Volt anymore. It was never really 
advertised, except perhaps before and when it first came out. But it was really 
never pushed. And it is a do everything car. EV mode for daily needs, gas for 
long trips, fold down seats and hatchback to carry stuff. Reasonable price. But 
I’m sure it wasn’t a moneymaker. Highest margins are on pickups and SUVs do 
that’s what they push.

Advertising , sadly, works. I remember reading an article one time about why 
well known brands like Coke advertise. They said if they stopped advertising 
then after a while people would stop buying it. 

-Steve

> On Apr 22, 2021, at 4:16 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> One more time.
> 
> Very few people buy the products they need.  They buy the products that are 
> SOLD to them.  Ask any advertising professional or media person.  That's 
> their business.
> 
> No other factor in purchasing decisions carries anything close to 
> advertising's weight.  
> 
> It may be difficult for you to understand or believe this because you, like 
> most folks here, are probably more a "thinker" than a "feeler."  Trust me, 
> you're atypical.  
> 
> Fifty years ago, pickup trucks were for tradespeople and farmers.  A  1970s 
> teenage boy would do almost anything to avoid having to drive dad's pickup 
> on a date.
> 
> SUVs were for hunters, campers, and sportsmen.  "Normal" people didn't buy 
> them because they were clumsy, ugly, and "drove like trucks," which is what 
> they were.
> 
> Then came CAFE.  Trucks were exempt from CAFE regulations.  The automakers 
> despised CAFE, so they began advertising trucks and SUVs heavily.  
> 
> If you can't guess what happened next, just read the first paragraph at the 
> top of this message.
> 
> The ads still push pickups, SUVs, and now crossovers (clumsy, topheavy, 
> overweight, overpowered station wagons).  In fact, the automakers advertise 
> almost nothing else.  
> 
> So people buy pickups, SUVs, and crossovers, regardless of what they really 
> need.  They literally never even consider anyhing else.  That's why both Lee 
> and I see driveways here in the midwest stuffed with 3 or 4 or 5 vehicles, 
> and every bloody one of them is a pickup or SUV.   
> 
> When Hyundai wanted to establish themselvs in the US market in the 1980s, 
> they advertised their subcompact Excel.  It wasn't a very good car, but they 
> sold a lot of them, because they advertised it.
> 
> If the automakers wanted to sell small cars, ICEV or EV, they'd advertise 
> them.  They don't, and they don't.
> 
> When the automakers want to sell EVs in the US, they'll advertise them here. 
> They don't, and they don't.  
> 
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
> 
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
> 
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
> If you made a column of things you're pretty sure you know, and 
> then made another column of how you know those things, most of 
> that column is like: "Some guy told me." It's just clickbait 
> and hearsay.  Goes into the head, locks onto a feeling, you're 
> like: "That sounds good. I'm gonna tell other people that." And 
> that's how brand marketing works, and also fascism, we're 
> finding.
> 
> -- Marc Maron
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
> 
> ___
> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
> No other addresses in TO and CC fields
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> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/
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Re: [EVDL] Why SUVs are popular (Solar Panels On EV)

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

One more time.

Very few people buy the products they need.  They buy the products that are 
SOLD to them.  Ask any advertising professional or media person.  That's 
their business.

No other factor in purchasing decisions carries anything close to 
advertising's weight.  

It may be difficult for you to understand or believe this because you, like 
most folks here, are probably more a "thinker" than a "feeler."  Trust me, 
you're atypical.  

Fifty years ago, pickup trucks were for tradespeople and farmers.  A  1970s 
teenage boy would do almost anything to avoid having to drive dad's pickup 
on a date.

SUVs were for hunters, campers, and sportsmen.  "Normal" people didn't buy 
them because they were clumsy, ugly, and "drove like trucks," which is what 
they were.

Then came CAFE.  Trucks were exempt from CAFE regulations.  The automakers 
despised CAFE, so they began advertising trucks and SUVs heavily.  

If you can't guess what happened next, just read the first paragraph at the 
top of this message.

The ads still push pickups, SUVs, and now crossovers (clumsy, topheavy, 
overweight, overpowered station wagons).  In fact, the automakers advertise 
almost nothing else.  

So people buy pickups, SUVs, and crossovers, regardless of what they really 
need.  They literally never even consider anyhing else.  That's why both Lee 
and I see driveways here in the midwest stuffed with 3 or 4 or 5 vehicles, 
and every bloody one of them is a pickup or SUV.   

When Hyundai wanted to establish themselvs in the US market in the 1980s, 
they advertised their subcompact Excel.  It wasn't a very good car, but they 
sold a lot of them, because they advertised it.

If the automakers wanted to sell small cars, ICEV or EV, they'd advertise 
them.  They don't, and they don't.

When the automakers want to sell EVs in the US, they'll advertise them here. 
They don't, and they don't.  

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 If you made a column of things you're pretty sure you know, and 
 then made another column of how you know those things, most of 
 that column is like: "Some guy told me." It's just clickbait 
 and hearsay.  Goes into the head, locks onto a feeling, you're 
 like: "That sounds good. I'm gonna tell other people that." And 
 that's how brand marketing works, and also fascism, we're 
 finding.

 -- Marc Maron
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

___
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Re: [EVDL] Why SUVs are popular (Solar Panels On EV)

[Lee Hart via EV]

Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
One person I know summarized this best. "If your going to buy a new car, 
you buy and SUV because it can do everything. That's an easy decision." 
He didn't even consider that other people could think differently.


That doesn't explain why every single family I know has as many (or 
more!) vehicles than drivers. And in almost every case, they are *all* 
SUVs or pickups. Why does every vehicle need to do everything?


I think it's a combination of ego, emotion, peer pressure, and 
advertising. "No money down, easy payments, cheap gas... so we can 
afford it!" :-)


Lee
--
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is
nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
-- Antoine de Saint Exupery
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: [EVDL] Why SUVs are popular (Solar Panels On EV)

[Bill Woodcock via EV]

> On Apr 21, 2021, at 10:27 PM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> One person I know summarized this best. "If your going to buy a new car, you 
> buy and SUV because it can do everything. That's an easy decision."
> So, long term, we'll need a solution that makes borrowing a special purpose 
> vehicle easer. Autonomous driving will make that easier. Also, will the 
> industry try to make SUVs more efficient - lighter, less drag ? So far, even 
> Tesla has failed on the "lighter" aspect.

I very much agree that EVs make having the right vehicle for the job more 
important.  I’ve definitely found that.  And I think car-sharing, in many 
different forms, is a useful piece of the overall puzzle.

I just wanted to say, though, that as I get older, I really really appreciate 
an upright driving posture, and that’s something SUVs (and “crossovers” and 
pickups) do well.  You don’t have to fold yourself into them, and you don’t 
have to get _down_ into them.  I imagine I’m not alone in that.

-Bill

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Re: [EVDL] Why SUVs are popular (Solar Panels On EV)

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Some of the appeal of an SUV is the form and impression. I suspect that 
some people buy an SUV strictly because of that, but probably a good 
minority.


I've thought about this a number of times, since the topic is brought up 
on various forums under various pretexts. And the conclusion always 
seems to lean towards the impression that people don't really need an 
SUV.


Let's look at what has changed over the years. 30, maybe 50, years ago, 
people bought sedans or station wagons. The latter would haul around a 
large family and some gear, which was more common in those days. 
Minivans and hatchbacks didn't exist yet. If you needed to haul stuff, 
why you simply got a pickup and, perhaps, a canopy. Aside from a 
relatively few urban areas, it wasn't too hard to find parking for a 3rd 
vehicle, even if that meant street parking.


Now, today, people have less room to park and don't want the cost or 
responsibility of owning extra vehicles. They also don't want to be 
dependent on a friend or neighbor (which I think was more acceptable 50 
years ago). The SUV has become ever popular because it can haul more 
stuff and still hold a number of people. The minivan became popular, 
too, for the same reason but it's too big and doesn't have the curb 
appeal of the SUV. The SUV does the trick. If you're going to have one 
car, it had better be able to do "all" the things you may want to do. If 
you don't buy the SUV, you may have to rent something a few times a 
month, and that can be a lot of overhead.


One person I know summarized this best. "If your going to buy a new car, 
you buy and SUV because it can do everything. That's an easy decision." 
He didn't even consider that other people could think differently.


So, long term, we'll need a solution that makes borrowing a special 
purpose vehicle easer. Autonomous driving will make that easier. Also, 
will the industry try to make SUVs more efficient - lighter, less drag ? 
So far, even Tesla has failed on the "lighter" aspect.


Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "(-Phil-) via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "(-Phil-)" 
Sent: 21-Apr-21 1:09:20 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar Panels On EV


Well, I have to say, when you are in traffic surrounded by poor drivers,
increasingly equipped with SUV death machines, you don't want to be in a
lightweight tiny car.   Just check the crash ratings.  Building a safe car
that's affordable means it has to have some mass.

Most of the big automakers can't even sell normal sedans anymore, let alone
a super-lightweight "city" car.  Just not going to happen.




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