Re: [EVDL] Will this gizmo let my EV conversion talk to a J-1772

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

The interesting thing about a GFI is that it doesn't actually need a ground 
to do its thing.  It senses an imbalance in current between hot and neutral, 
or for a 240v GFI, between the hot legs and/or neutral.

If any portion of the current drawn from a hot leg isn't balanced by a 
return via the other hot or neutral, it assumes that the errant current is 
going to ground.  Since this could be happening via a person, with the 
possibility of shock or electrocution, it trips.

Apart from tripping a GFI, the hazard in using equipment ground for a 
neutral is that if the equipment ground bonding at the main panel should be 
loose or damaged, the entire building's equipment ground wiring is energized 
- and so is the frame of any appliance connected to that ground.  That's not 
good.  So don't use ground as a neutral substitute, even without a GFI 
present.

Couldn't you solve your RV problem with an isolation transformer? You could 
also potentially use the same transformer to derive 120v for conversion EV 
charging.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

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Re: [EVDL] Will this gizmo let my EV conversion talk to a J-1772

[Lawrence Winiarski via EV]

Yes.but RV's can have a weird problem.    When operating in stand alone 
mode (i.e. self supported and not connected to the grid)  they often act like a 
house in that the inverter/generator makes its own 120|240 and therefore the 
ground and neutral are often bonded together (at one place...in the RV)...and 
connected to the frame.    This means neutral and ground are connected 
together.at one placeprobably the frame    So it's just like a house.

It makes sense in. stand-alone mode (i.e. NOT connected to external power) and 
works just like a house in that if RV internal GFI (in the RV) senses current 
going to "ground" (i.e. frame) it trips the internal GFI   or breaker 

  So if your RV dryer connects the neutral or hot to the RV dryer metal box 
which is "grounded" , then internal RV GFI trips. and you kept from being 
electrocuted.   The ground effectively acts like a neutral to provide a path to 
sink the current and blow a breaker (or GFI).    

Keep in mind that normal NON GFI  breakers also expect a big enough ground wire 
even though in theory no current should pass through groundBUT if it 
does,then the ground wire must be big enough to handle enough current to blow 
the breaker...   If you use a 1 Mohm resistor for ground, then the breaker will
never get 20 amps and it'll never blow, but the case can still be 120v

The problem is when you connect the RV to external power because NOW the RV 
neutral-ground bonding creates a path to ground.   So if you power the RV via
an external GFI, some of the current may come back through the external ground 
because now you effectively have 2 paths back to the bonding point of the 
house.      It's as if you had a huge appliance where neutral and ground were 
connected together. Not good.

it's bad.   In fact I think most RV's will pop an external GFI.  (at least the 
ones I've seen).    Not good.

I suppose the right answer is to have something inside the RV that switches 
between bonding and not-bonding depending whether you are stand alone or
not stand alone.

A similar problem can happen if you try to give temporary emergency power to 
your neighbor via an extension cord.

I'm not condoning it, but unfortunately it's pretty common situation that most 
people seem blissfully unaware.


On Saturday, September 4, 2021, 3:03:13 PM PDT, EVDL Administrator via EV 
 wrote: 

> I thought you could mix ground with neutral?

Ground and neutral are bonded together at only one point in your house.  
Usually that's at the main panel or main disconnect.  From that point on, 
ground and neutral are kept totally separate.  

You can't use the equipment ground as a substitute for neutral.  It creates 
a potentially hazardous situation and will trip a GFI, including the one in 
an EVSE.  To charge at 120v, you'll need an appropriately sized transformer. 

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

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Re: [EVDL] Will this gizmo let my EV conversion talk to a J-1772

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 4 Sep 2021 at 20:55, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

> I thought you could mix ground with neutral?

Ground and neutral are bonded together at only one point in your house.  
Usually that's at the main panel or main disconnect.  From that point on, 
ground and neutral are kept totally separate.  

You can't use the equipment ground as a substitute for neutral.  It creates 
a potentially hazardous situation and will trip a GFI, including the one in 
an EVSE.  To charge at 120v, you'll need an appropriately sized transformer. 

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 People don't sleep enough, and they all seem to be hunting 
 something that can't be caught.  You think you're the dominant 
 species just because you go to the bathroom in a bowl instead 
 of a box.  But who's cleaning up after whom? 

   -- Souseme, "Felines of New York"
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] Will this gizmo let my EV conversion talk to a J-1772

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

>RVs need a neutral for 120vac.   

I thought you could mix ground with neutral? Not sure I know what I am talking 
about. Two of my 3 AVCON EVSE use neutral. Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Will this gizmo let my EV conversion talk to a J-1772

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 4 Sep 2021 at 1:18, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:

> RV's need neutral, so you'd need a transformer if you want to run any 120v
> items.

Wait, I must have missed something here.  Now RV owners want to crib power 
from EVSEs?  It's not enough that greasy jerks with their stepladder pickups 
ICE them?

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

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Re: [EVDL] Will this gizmo let my EV conversion talk to a J-1772

[(-Phil-) via EV]

RV's need neutral, so you'd need a transformer if you want to run any 120v
items.

On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 11:58 PM Ken Olum via EV  wrote:

> Yes.  But of course you need an inlet, which would be more than $40,
> plus wiring, and some way to crimp the pins.  Probably by the time
> you're done it wouldn't be much more to buy an adapter box.  When I had
> a Force, I had one from Tucson EV.  It worked fine.  A 30A one is
> currently $135 there.
>
> Ken
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Re: [EVDL] Will this gizmo let my EV conversion talk to a J-1772

[Ken Olum via EV]

Yes.  But of course you need an inlet, which would be more than $40,
plus wiring, and some way to crimp the pins.  Probably by the time
you're done it wouldn't be much more to buy an adapter box.  When I had
a Force, I had one from Tucson EV.  It worked fine.  A 30A one is
currently $135 there.

Ken
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Re: [EVDL] Will this gizmo let my EV conversion talk to a J-1772

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 2 Sep 2021 at 15:17, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

Here's the message:

This is a controller for in vehicle, so the complement to the EVSE (charging 
station).

NOTE that it does not protect your battery, there is no BMS connection.

It also does not tell you how much current you are allowed to draw, so you 
can overload the EVSE with your in vehicle charger.

All it does is "turn the charging station on to deliver power to your EV"

And it apparently gives you a signal (relay contact) telling you that the 
power is on, so you can start/stop the charger on your car, this avoids you 
running your aux battery down when the EVSE is indicating zero (no charging 
allowed at this moment, can be due to load sharing) which means no power, so 
your EV should not stay awake and run the aux battery down waiting
Cor.

=

Sorry for the inconvenience.  The list blocks html in mail to protect your 
privacy and system security.

The above problem arises when html-only email is sent to the list.  

Please configure your email system to send mail that is either plain text or 
multipart-alternative with a plain text component.  

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

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Re: [EVDL] Will this gizmo let my EV conversion talk to a J-1772

[Cor van de Water via EV]

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Re: [EVDL] Will this gizmo let my EV conversion talk to a J-1772

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

Furthermore could this be used to allow an RV to hook up to a J-1772 to provide 
it power? Not that anyone should use an EVSE for any other purpose than 
charging an EV...but seems that it could be done. Lawrence Rhodes






On Thursday, September 2, 2021, 02:42:41 PM PDT, Lawrence Rhodes 
 wrote: 





https://www.ebay.com/itm/254995194611 40 bucks on eBay. Lawrence Rhodes
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[EVDL] Will this gizmo let my EV conversion talk to a J-1772

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254995194611 40 bucks on eBay. Lawrence Rhodes
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