Re: [EVDL] 48V charger repair: 1980 Comuta-Car
Chris Tromley via EV wrote: If a simple, old-school and cheap solution is desired, I still have the original 48V transformer charger from my Lectric Leopard up in my attic. I bought the car with only a few hundred original miles and immediately upgraded everything to 120V, so it can't have been used more than a few times. I'd be happy to see it gone for an attractive price. I also have my 1980 Lectric Leopard charger. It's even simpler than the ComutaCar charger! It's just a big transformer, rectifier, manual high/low charge rate switch, mechanical timer, and amp gauge. It would do the job, as long as the user provided the "smarts" to know what current and for how long to charge. -- In software development, there are two kinds of error: Conceptual errors, implementation errors, and off-by-one errors. (anonymous) -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] 48V charger repair: 1980 Comuta-Car
If a simple, old-school and cheap solution is desired, I still have the
original 48V transformer charger from my Lectric Leopard up in my attic. I
bought the car with only a few hundred original miles and immediately
upgraded everything to 120V, so it can't have been used more than a few
times. I'd be happy to see it gone for an attractive price.
Chris
On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 9:15 PM brucedp5 via EV wrote:
>
>
> [ref
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/1980-Commuta-Car-tp4693753.html
> >charger doesn't work; when I plug the car in, the on-dash charging ammeter
> bumps, then zeroes<
> ]
>
> % Lee is one of several on the evdl that know comuta-cars
> https://www.google.com/search?q=comuta-cars
>
> A search
> https://www.google.com/search?q=1980+comuta-car+charger+schematics=isch
> gives
>
> http://www.evdl.org/docs/c_car_charger.jpg
> evdl's charger schematic
>
> http://www.geocities.ws/commutacar/
> Mike Chancey's commutacar site
>
> http://www.geocities.ws/commutacar/cir24.gif
>
> http://www.geocities.ws/commutacar/cir26.gif
>
> http://www.didik.com/cit_part.htm
> parts list shows 48v charger
>
> http://www.evperformance.com/index.php?route=news/article_id=5
> osciloscope captures of charger circuit
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=comuta+car+parts
>
> I'll assume Lambert wants to keep the citicar original (old-school) and
> will
> deleve into the charger's anchient design drawn from the 1970's club-car
> golf-carts.
>
> When I look at its schematic, it reminds me of what I cut my teeth on,
> way-way back in grade school talking electronics with my Lockheed Engineer
> Dad.
> A center tapped secondary winding with 2 diode feeding 2 scrs, a zenor
> diode
> and a thermistor to help with current regulation ...
> ( : old : ).
>
> But purists forgive me, this is achiest technology, long before the
> switching circuitry designs of today. Its old saturated transformer
> windings, and chopped/spiky current output design can't be more than 50%
> efficient. That means a lot of the power pulled from the AC (L1) outlet is
> wasted and does not go into the pack.
>
> An L1 outlet can supply (120VAC*12A= ) 1.4kW, which means only 700W goes
> into the 48VDC PbSO4 pack (700/48= ) an average of 14ADC charging current.
> The fuses are rated higher to handle the spiky currents.
>
> I am coming from a different camp of thought than purists and would not
> want
> to try to repair this ancient technology. I would yank out the old-tech and
> install today's-tech.
>
> David's Delta-Q idea is a good one as an upgrade path.
>
>
> At the 2015 Silicon Valley NDEW EVent
> https://brucedp15.neocities.org/eaasvr15/
> 30% down the page, shows a Citicar owner who had done several upgrades
> https://brucedp15.neocities.org/eaasvr15/eaasvr15-20150919-brucedp-12l.jpg
> 'The Citi-car had been upgraded to a 60V Li-ion pack using a 500A
> controller and motor r:35+mi ts:40+mph'
>
> As a boy, I would respectfully listen to my Dad's (depression era, no
> jobs=no-money) childhood achievements of brings an old used bicycle back to
> life by sanding the wooden rims/wheels ...
> https://www.wheelsofthepast.org/upload/IMG_1296.jpg
> (all the while I'm thinking: Wow how old-tech those days were ...
> when a 5-speed stingray/rat-bike with banana seats were all the rage
>
> http://www.ratrodbikes.com/forum/index.php?threads/stingrays-that-i-fixed-up-over-the-years.26088/
> when I was young, but I was already too tall for them)
>
> There comes a time when cars with wooden wheels
>
> https://forums.aaca.org/topic/162125-how-late-was-wood-spoke-wheels-a-option/
> are just too old to support or safe.
>
>
> A search
>
> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=48v+15a+Battery+Charger&_sacat=48618_BIN=1&_sop=15
> gives
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Automatic-48V-10A-15A-20A-Battery-Charger-Current-Switchable-MCU-Controlled-new/273693743819
> Which also has the advantage of running off 120 or 220VAC (like a
> Delta-Q).
> That means it could be made to run of today's j1772 EVSE (public or home).
> Here are other links to explore:
>
> https://www.ebay.com/i/173497752010?chn=ps
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=48v+charger&_sacat=0_TitleDesc=0&_sop=15_BIN=1&_pgn=3
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=48+Volt+Battery+Charger+Golf+Cart
>
> If only wanted to keep his pack healthy with a low maintenance charger,
> while you work on repairing the old charger, consider:
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-Volt-2-5A-Battery-Charger-for-Electric-Car-E-bike-Smart-Scooter-Adapter-USA/282979879433?epid=602991451
>
> Good Luck :-)
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
> http://evdl.org/archive/
>
>
> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>
> --
> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
>
Re: [EVDL] 48V charger repair: 1980 Comuta-Car
Hi Bruce (and all), Bruce, thanks for digging up the links. A nice trip in the Wayback machine. :-) brucedp5 via EV wrote: When I look at its schematic, it reminds me of what I cut my teeth on, way-way back in grade school talking electronics with my Lockheed Engineer Dad... ( : old : ). But purists forgive me, this is achiest technology, long before the switching circuitry designs of today. Its old saturated transformer windings, and chopped/spiky current output design can't be more than 50% efficient. That means a lot of the power pulled from the AC (L1) outlet is wasted and does not go into the pack. It's actually a pretty efficient design; around 85%. Nothing gets hot (notice there's no fan). SCRs *are* a solid-state switching device. An L1 outlet can supply (120VAC*12A= ) 1.4kW, which means only 700W goes into the 48VDC PbSO4 pack (700/48= ) an average of 14ADC charging current. The fuses are rated higher to handle the spiky currents. The issue you are alluding to is Power Factor (not efficiency). This design has a low PF of about 0.6. This means you get about 60% of the power out that a perfect device could have supplied from a 120vac 120v L1 outlet. The "missing" power isn't lost to heat, and you're not paying for it in your electric bill; it simply is not drawn from the AC outlet. A power meter would show that the input voltage may be 120vac at 12a; but the power input is only about 60% of 1440w = 864 watts. Then, the charger's 85% efficiency means it turns that 864w input power into 864w x 0.85 = 734 watts out. That's 52.5v at 14 amps. Sure enough, a 6v battery on charge will be about 6.7v. 6.7v x 8 batteries = 53.6v. :-) David's Delta-Q idea is a good one as an upgrade path. Yes indeed; Delta-Q chargers are a good option. They are not only efficient (about 85%), but also have a high power factor (about 0.95). to maximize the amount of charging power you can get from an L1 outlet. That's about 22 amps of charging current at the same voltage. A search https://www.ebay.com... Watch out for cheap chargers from no-name sources. There are some really terrible ones on the market! Most people just buy on price and flashy advertising... and get junk. One advantage of the olde-skool designs like the ComutaCar is that they are very reliable, and easy to fix. Many of the new ones will be dead and unrepairable in a few years. -- In software development, there are two kinds of error: Conceptual errors, implementation errors, and off-by-one errors. (anonymous) -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] 48V charger repair: 1980 Comuta-Car
[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/1980-Commuta-Car-tp4693753.html
>charger doesn't work; when I plug the car in, the on-dash charging ammeter
bumps, then zeroes<
]
% Lee is one of several on the evdl that know comuta-cars
https://www.google.com/search?q=comuta-cars
A search
https://www.google.com/search?q=1980+comuta-car+charger+schematics=isch
gives
http://www.evdl.org/docs/c_car_charger.jpg
evdl's charger schematic
http://www.geocities.ws/commutacar/
Mike Chancey's commutacar site
http://www.geocities.ws/commutacar/cir24.gif
http://www.geocities.ws/commutacar/cir26.gif
http://www.didik.com/cit_part.htm
parts list shows 48v charger
http://www.evperformance.com/index.php?route=news/article_id=5
osciloscope captures of charger circuit
https://www.google.com/search?q=comuta+car+parts
I'll assume Lambert wants to keep the citicar original (old-school) and will
deleve into the charger's anchient design drawn from the 1970's club-car
golf-carts.
When I look at its schematic, it reminds me of what I cut my teeth on,
way-way back in grade school talking electronics with my Lockheed Engineer
Dad.
A center tapped secondary winding with 2 diode feeding 2 scrs, a zenor diode
and a thermistor to help with current regulation ...
( : old : ).
But purists forgive me, this is achiest technology, long before the
switching circuitry designs of today. Its old saturated transformer
windings, and chopped/spiky current output design can't be more than 50%
efficient. That means a lot of the power pulled from the AC (L1) outlet is
wasted and does not go into the pack.
An L1 outlet can supply (120VAC*12A= ) 1.4kW, which means only 700W goes
into the 48VDC PbSO4 pack (700/48= ) an average of 14ADC charging current.
The fuses are rated higher to handle the spiky currents.
I am coming from a different camp of thought than purists and would not want
to try to repair this ancient technology. I would yank out the old-tech and
install today's-tech.
David's Delta-Q idea is a good one as an upgrade path.
At the 2015 Silicon Valley NDEW EVent
https://brucedp15.neocities.org/eaasvr15/
30% down the page, shows a Citicar owner who had done several upgrades
https://brucedp15.neocities.org/eaasvr15/eaasvr15-20150919-brucedp-12l.jpg
'The Citi-car had been upgraded to a 60V Li-ion pack using a 500A
controller and motor r:35+mi ts:40+mph'
As a boy, I would respectfully listen to my Dad's (depression era, no
jobs=no-money) childhood achievements of brings an old used bicycle back to
life by sanding the wooden rims/wheels ...
https://www.wheelsofthepast.org/upload/IMG_1296.jpg
(all the while I'm thinking: Wow how old-tech those days were ...
when a 5-speed stingray/rat-bike with banana seats were all the rage
http://www.ratrodbikes.com/forum/index.php?threads/stingrays-that-i-fixed-up-over-the-years.26088/
when I was young, but I was already too tall for them)
There comes a time when cars with wooden wheels
https://forums.aaca.org/topic/162125-how-late-was-wood-spoke-wheels-a-option/
are just too old to support or safe.
A search
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=48v+15a+Battery+Charger&_sacat=48618_BIN=1&_sop=15
gives
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Automatic-48V-10A-15A-20A-Battery-Charger-Current-Switchable-MCU-Controlled-new/273693743819
Which also has the advantage of running off 120 or 220VAC (like a Delta-Q).
That means it could be made to run of today's j1772 EVSE (public or home).
Here are other links to explore:
https://www.ebay.com/i/173497752010?chn=ps
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=48v+charger&_sacat=0_TitleDesc=0&_sop=15_BIN=1&_pgn=3
https://www.google.com/search?q=48+Volt+Battery+Charger+Golf+Cart
If only wanted to keep his pack healthy with a low maintenance charger,
while you work on repairing the old charger, consider:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-Volt-2-5A-Battery-Charger-for-Electric-Car-E-bike-Smart-Scooter-Adapter-USA/282979879433?epid=602991451
Good Luck :-)
For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
http://evdl.org/archive/
{brucedp.neocities.org}
--
Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
