Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf
If you are using the Nissan Leaf Battery Blocks in a vehicle that is large enough to hold the larger 24 module pack, you do not have to disassembled them. I bought three of the larger Nissan Leaf Battery Blocks and just bolted them down on to a chassis plate in the bottom of the battery box. I also bought a extra Nissan Leaf Battery to add more modules to the end of the 24 module battery battery pack. Just attach a threaded rod to the end of threaded rods with rod couplers to using a steel or aluminum spacer. The advantage to buying complete battery blocks, is that you get the end plates and the separating steel spacers that go between each module instead of making them. Just bolt the buss bars and BMS wire spade connectors to the terminals. If you need to parallel two modules together, you then will have to unbolt the long thread rods and placed two modules with the two positives on one side and th two negatives on the other end. The buss bars that come with the Battery Blocks are only long enough to connect two modules terminals that go from neg to pos. You either need a buss bar to branch across four positive at one end and four negative terminals at the other end, or you can reuse the short terminal buss bars to attach two modules together and then connect those two modules with another copper buss bar or use 1/2 A/C copper tubing flatten down which gets to to about 9/16 inch wide and the same thickness. Took me only a day to make up the extra modules and two days to install the battery pack. Another day to attach all the buss bars and attach the BMS wires terminals. You can purchase them NEW instead of use. Roland - Original Message - From: Jay Summet via EVmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion Listmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I was searching YouTube and found a new video where a guy disassembled a leaf pack. (He posted it only a week ago, which is why I hadn't found it before.). Good info for anybody looking to do the same: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0dDHJKzX78https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0dDHJKzX78 Jay -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlUZ/5gACgkQSWJjSgPNbM89GgCfR7Mv7JYWPJb2VFLg1R/42aKT oDoAnj35p4vM1J2CC1skKuxUAyvZjNft =LbMY -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usubhttp://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.orghttp://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRAhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150331/a193b42d/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf
You can purchase them NEW instead of use. Roland I am aware that I can purchase blocks of cells (from Hybrid Auto Center, and others) which may be new, or old/unused stock, or pulled from salvage depending upon source. I chose to buy a Salvage pack for cost savings purposes. 48 modules at $130 per cell (I'm including shipping costs in that $130 price...seems to be a reasonable way to account of volume discounts of larger packs...) is $6240 My cost for the complete 2013 leaf was $4100 (or $4407 including all of the tools I had to purchase to move/jack the car and drop the pack) plus a lot of my own labor. If you have the money, buying just the modules or 1/2 packs already ready to go is a good time saving measure, but if your labor is free, you can get a lot more value with a (good) Salvage pack/car. Because I got the whole car, I was able to connect to the OBDII port and verify that the pack health was excellent, and I know for a fact that it's an upgraded chemistry 2013 pack with 64 Ah capacity. I'm currently saving about $1,800 over buying the modules alone, plus any extra money I can recoup by selling parts from the rest of the car. (such as the wheels/tires, entire motor/charger/inverter unit, HVAC, J1722 port, HV contractor, 250A fuse block, BMS, airbags, headlights, etc..) Another person I know of purchased just a used pack from a junk yard (without the car surrounding it) for $2600-2700, which is an even better cost savings, and gives him less stuff to have to get rid of after the fact... Of course, they may stand behind their product better than CoPart's Where is / As-is policy for salvage autos : Jay ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf
Anyone know what the maximum discharge rate is for the Nissan Leaf batteries? How about for the Chevy Volt batteries? Thanks, Dave Delman eLectricDeLorean.com http://www.evalbum.com/1482 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150331/415cb63e/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf
On 03/31/2015 09:12 AM, via EV wrote: Anyone know what the maximum discharge rate is for the Nissan Leaf batteries? No hard facts, but here are my estimates: The Nissan leaf battery is made up of 48 modules, each providing 7-8.2 volts at 60Ah, for a total of 390-400 volt max @ 60Ah or ~24 kWh. The leaf motor is rated at 80 kW, and the battery pack is supposed to be able to provide up to 90 kW (motor + all accessories), which at maximum voltage would be 228 amps. This is around 3.8 times C (60Ah) which seems to be easily in the realm of possibility, and matches up with the fact that the fuse in the leaf battery pack is a 250 amp fuse. Individual modules MAY be able to provide 10C (600amps!) for a short period of time, but may also burst into flame or just die quickly if asked to do soI wouldn't recommend it! I expect that they can provide a solid 3C rate for a relatively decent amount of time (30 seconds anyways) without any serious ill effects in the long term, which is very much in line with other lithium batteries. For my application (S-10 pickup at 120 volts) I'll rarely need to go over a 300 amp draw (typically 50-100 amps continuous) and am planning on arranging them in sixteen series packs of 3 parallel modules, giving a 180-190 Ah battery at close to 120 volts. So my max discharge will probably be closer to the 1.7-2 C rate which feels relatively conservative to me. Jay ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf
Hello Jay, Parallel three modules is like paralleling six cells. This is what I did. Unlike all the cells being in series the full battery ampere is felt by all the cells. Lets say you ever get the battery ampere up to 600 amps if you are going to drag race, the maximum cell ampere will be 600/6 = 100 amps. I did a long drive yesterday going up a 5 mile slope at 40 to 50 mph. On acceleration the battery amp never went over 100 amps and the motor ampere is about 300 amps. At a constant speed, the motor ampere is held at 180 amps, the battery ampere at 60 ampere and the six cells in parallel are 60/6 = 10 amps per cell. So there will be no problem with three modules connected in parallel. After the run of 10.4 miles, it took 29.2 ampere hour. Charge the battery pack with a PFC-50 charger set at 30 amperes and it took 65 minutes to charge. The battery temperature before the run was 70 F. Turn on the battery box exhaust fans which brought in cool 55 F. morning ambient air. Let the EV set for two hours and the battery temperature was at 68 F. The ambient air was above 80 F between the space of the glass hatch back and the double layer battery box. Turn on the hatch fans to exhaust this air back to 72 degrees. Did not turn on the battery exhaust fans which may bring in a higher temperature than the battery temperature. On the return trip it was a down hill run with some level driving. The battery and motor ampere is 0 to about 30 amperes which is about 0 to 5 amperes per cell. The battery temperature at home was still 68 F!!! and was still about that temperature after charging. It is best not to remove the cells from the aluminum cases, because the aluminum cases act like a heat sink and the cells are space from the ends of the modules for air ventilation through vent holes. The modules are assemble together with about 1/8 to 3/16 inch space for air circulation. Each battery pack block should be space apart for air circulation and exhaust venting. The modules should not be touch the sides of the battery box container. I leave about 2 inch space between the modules and about 5 inches between the modules. Roland - Original Message - From: Jay Summet via EVmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.orgmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 8:01 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf On 03/31/2015 09:12 AM, via EV wrote: Anyone know what the maximum discharge rate is for the Nissan Leaf batteries? No hard facts, but here are my estimates: The Nissan leaf battery is made up of 48 modules, each providing 7-8.2 volts at 60Ah, for a total of 390-400 volt max @ 60Ah or ~24 kWh. The leaf motor is rated at 80 kW, and the battery pack is supposed to be able to provide up to 90 kW (motor + all accessories), which at maximum voltage would be 228 amps. This is around 3.8 times C (60Ah) which seems to be easily in the realm of possibility, and matches up with the fact that the fuse in the leaf battery pack is a 250 amp fuse. Individual modules MAY be able to provide 10C (600amps!) for a short period of time, but may also burst into flame or just die quickly if asked to do soI wouldn't recommend it! I expect that they can provide a solid 3C rate for a relatively decent amount of time (30 seconds anyways) without any serious ill effects in the long term, which is very much in line with other lithium batteries. For my application (S-10 pickup at 120 volts) I'll rarely need to go over a 300 amp draw (typically 50-100 amps continuous) and am planning on arranging them in sixteen series packs of 3 parallel modules, giving a 180-190 Ah battery at close to 120 volts. So my max discharge will probably be closer to the 1.7-2 C rate which feels relatively conservative to me. Jay ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usubhttp://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.orghttp://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRAhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150331/92d4350e/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I was searching YouTube and found a new video where a guy disassembled a leaf pack. (He posted it only a week ago, which is why I hadn't found it before.). Good info for anybody looking to do the same: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0dDHJKzX78 Jay -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlUZ/5gACgkQSWJjSgPNbM89GgCfR7Mv7JYWPJb2VFLg1R/42aKT oDoAnj35p4vM1J2CC1skKuxUAyvZjNft =LbMY -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf
Quite a lot of use of these on VisforVoltage forum - mostly in Vectrixs (electric scooter). MW On 24 Mar 2015, at 17:10, Jay Summet via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I am now the new owner of a totaled Nissan leaf purchased at a salvage yard. I'd like to hear any first hand accounts or links to tutorials/howto's/photos of anybody who has done this before. The plan is to drop and disassemble the battery pack, and re-package the modules into sixteen set of 3 modules in parallel. (16S3P) This will replace my 20 X 6v golf cart batteries (120 volt) lead acid battery pack in a few months. I am seeing advice on: 1) How to drop the battery pack safely. I don't have a lift, but do have a large concrete pad. My current plan involves multiple floor jacks under the battery pack. I know about the battery disconnect on the back passenger floor, but was wondering if there was a suggested side of the pack to drop first, how it disconnects, anything special to watch out for, etc.. 2) Specialized tools needed. Any tricky bolts/screws I'll need to purchase special tools for? 3) Advice on pack disassembly. 4) Does anybody sell bus-bars that would be appropriate for a 3-5 cell parallel pack? If I make them myself, any suggestions for material type, size/width? The plan is to connect each pack of 3 cells in series using my existing lead acid connection cables. (basically, replacing 20 6 volt batteries with 16 7-8 volt batteries...) As one Leaf has 48 cells, I'm using 3 cell packs for now, but am considering leaving room to expand each pack into 4 or 5 cells later...(extra holes on one/both ends of the bus-bars that stick out a bit...) 5) I'm leaning strongly towards the MiniBMS boards for leaf cells, one per parallel pack of 3 cells, comments one way or the other? 6) I'm willing to pay $200-$300 for some type of automated battery charger/discharger with logging suitable for using on an individual 2S Nissan leaf module. (To test and possibly bin the modules). Anybody know of an RC type charger/tester that supports the 4.2v cells and can handle 60+Ah discharge? (speed isn't terribly important...) Thanks, Jay ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf
I don't know how you would determine ahead of time if a Leaf pack has much capacity remaining. There is a lawsuit out because Nissan did a poor job of pack design where high temperatures are seen. Some packs in hot climates have lost half their capacity in less than 2 years. They needed to have a cooling system. Something to consider when repurposing them yourself. You never want tot charge them fully, or you need to keep them cool when they are charged fully. This the damaging condition - fully charged, too hot. It has nothing to do with charge or discharge rate. You may want to only buy the packs for not much $, or get some sort of warranty - unlikely for DIY applications. Maybe if you knew the donor car was never operated in the deep south...still is is more dicey than woith other packs. I am not sure if Nissan has fixed all this on later models. I would love hear if anyone knows. They might simply have limited the final charge, or they could have added cooling. Or they could have picked a better chemistry. On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 1:10 PM, Jay Summet via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I am now the new owner of a totaled Nissan leaf purchased at a salvage yard. I'd like to hear any first hand accounts or links to tutorials/howto's/photos of anybody who has done this before. The plan is to drop and disassemble the battery pack, and re-package the modules into sixteen set of 3 modules in parallel. (16S3P) This will replace my 20 X 6v golf cart batteries (120 volt) lead acid battery pack in a few months. I am seeing advice on: 1) How to drop the battery pack safely. I don't have a lift, but do have a large concrete pad. My current plan involves multiple floor jacks under the battery pack. I know about the battery disconnect on the back passenger floor, but was wondering if there was a suggested side of the pack to drop first, how it disconnects, anything special to watch out for, etc.. 2) Specialized tools needed. Any tricky bolts/screws I'll need to purchase special tools for? 3) Advice on pack disassembly. 4) Does anybody sell bus-bars that would be appropriate for a 3-5 cell parallel pack? If I make them myself, any suggestions for material type, size/width? The plan is to connect each pack of 3 cells in series using my existing lead acid connection cables. (basically, replacing 20 6 volt batteries with 16 7-8 volt batteries...) As one Leaf has 48 cells, I'm using 3 cell packs for now, but am considering leaving room to expand each pack into 4 or 5 cells later...(extra holes on one/both ends of the bus-bars that stick out a bit...) 5) I'm leaning strongly towards the MiniBMS boards for leaf cells, one per parallel pack of 3 cells, comments one way or the other? 6) I'm willing to pay $200-$300 for some type of automated battery charger/discharger with logging suitable for using on an individual 2S Nissan leaf module. (To test and possibly bin the modules). Anybody know of an RC type charger/tester that supports the 4.2v cells and can handle 60+Ah discharge? (speed isn't terribly important...) Thanks, Jay ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/e3dc3de6/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf
I'm planning on doing something similar, but haven't gone beyond buying 3 cells on ebay, for a practice run on a lawnmower. Please post details as you work them out. Did you buy the car through one of Copart's auctions, or just walk into a salvage yard and ask for a LEAF? Bill -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/d766642c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf
On 03/24/2015 01:50 PM, Michael Ross wrote: I don't know how you would determine ahead of time if a Leaf pack has much capacity remaining. There is a lawsuit out because Nissan did a poor job of pack design where high temperatures are seen. Some packs in hot climates have lost half their capacity in less than 2 years. They needed to have a cooling system. Something to consider when repurposing them yourself. You never want tot charge them fully, or you need to keep them cool when they are charged fully. This the damaging condition - fully charged, too hot. It has nothing to do with charge or discharge rate. You may want to only buy the packs for not much $, or get some sort of warranty - unlikely for DIY applications. Maybe if you knew the donor car was never operated in the deep south...still is is more dicey than woith other packs. The Leaf I bought has 18K miles on it, so I expect the pack has some (hopefully minor) capacity loss. It is a 2013 model, so I believe that has a slightly upgraded battery chemistry that deals with the heat better. I (and the leaf) is in/from Atlanta, so that's probably the deep south ; However, the price was right for a used pack, as I'm getting a 24kWh pack for significantly less than the equivalent new price of lithium cells. (I'll probably post some info about buying a salvage Leaf later on..) I also hope to be able to sell some of the other parts of the car that I don't plan on using to offset the expense. Jay ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
