RE: computer pain

2006-12-24 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Brent Meeker writes: If your species doesn't define as unethical that which is contrary to continuation of the species, your species won't be around to long. Our problem is that cultural evolution has been so rapid compared to biological evolution that some of our hardwired values are

Re: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-24 Thread Tom Caylor
Bruno, I have been doing a lot of reading/thinking on your former posts on the Hypostases, other reading on Plotinus and the neo-Platonist hypostases, and the Christian interpretation of the hypostases. There is a lot to say, but I'll start by just giving some responses to your last post on

Re: computer pain

2006-12-24 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Brent Meeker writes: If your species doesn't define as unethical that which is contrary to continuation of the species, your species won't be around to long. Our problem is that cultural evolution has been so rapid compared to biological evolution that some

RE: computer pain

2006-12-24 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Brent Meeker writes: Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Brent Meeker writes: If your species doesn't define as unethical that which is contrary to continuation of the species, your species won't be around to long. Our problem is that cultural evolution has been so rapid compared to

RE: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-24 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Tom Caylor writes: Bruno, I have been doing a lot of reading/thinking on your former posts on the Hypostases, other reading on Plotinus and the neo-Platonist hypostases, and the Christian interpretation of the hypostases. There is a lot to say, but I'll start by just giving some responses

Re: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-24 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 23-déc.-06, à 15:01, Stathis Papaioannou a écrit : Bruno marchal writes: Even if it is presented as good for society, the child may accept that because of feelings of empathy for others. OK. Note that such an empathy is hard wired in our biological constitution. Many mammals seems

Re: computer pain

2006-12-24 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 24-déc.-06, à 09:17, Stathis Papaioannou a écrit : Brent Meeker writes: If your species doesn't define as unethical that which is contrary to continuation of the species, your species won't be around to long. Our problem is that cultural evolution has been so rapid compared to

Re: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-24 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 24-déc.-06, à 09:48, Tom Caylor a écrit : Bruno, I have been doing a lot of reading/thinking on your former posts on the Hypostases, other reading on Plotinus and the neo-Platonist hypostases, and the Christian interpretation of the hypostases. There is a lot to say, but I'll start by

Re: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-24 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 24-déc.-06, à 11:49, Stathis Papaioannou a écrit : I'm not sure that this is what you meant, but there is in a sense an objective basis to the personal or subjective, which is simply that when I say I feel or desire something, this is an empirical statement: either I do feel it or I am

RE: computer pain

2006-12-24 Thread Jef Allbright
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Oops, it was Jef Allbright, not Mark Peaty responsible for the first quote below. Brent Meeker writes: [Mark Peaty]Correction: [Jef Allbright] From the foregoing it can be seen that while there can be no objective morality, nor any absolute morality, it is

Re: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-24 Thread Tom Caylor
On Dec 24, 3:49 am, Stathis Papaioannou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom Caylor writes: Bruno, I have been doing a lot of reading/thinking on your former posts on the Hypostases, other reading on Plotinus and the neo-Platonist hypostases, and the Christian interpretation of the hypostases.

Re: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-24 Thread Tom Caylor
It looks like I might have timed out. Hopefully this doesn't appear two times. On Dec 24, 8:55 am, Bruno Marchal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Le 24-déc.-06, à 09:48, Tom Caylor a écrit : Bruno, ... I believe the answer to the question, What is Truth? which Pilate asked Jesus, was standing

RE: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-24 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Thanks for the explanations. I am astonished about all children being psychopathic: I guess you mean very young one? Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ To be fair that term isn't normally used for children due to its pejorative connotations, but I think it is close to the truth.

Re: Evil ? (was: Hypostases

2006-12-24 Thread Brent Meeker
Tom Caylor wrote: On Dec 24, 3:49 am, Stathis Papaioannou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom Caylor writes: Bruno, I have been doing a lot of reading/thinking on your former posts on the Hypostases, other reading on Plotinus and the neo-Platonist hypostases, and the Christian interpretation of

Re: computer pain

2006-12-24 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Jef Allbright writes: [Stathis Papaioannou] If slavery could be scientifically shown to promote the well-being of the species as a whole does that mean we should have slavery? Does it mean that slavery is good? Teaching that slavery is bad is similar to

Re: computer pain

2006-12-24 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Jef Allbright writes: [Stathis Papaioannou] If slavery could be scientifically shown to promote the well-being of the species as a whole does that mean we should have slavery? Does it mean that slavery is good? Teaching that slavery is bad is similar to

RE: computer pain

2006-12-24 Thread Jef Allbright
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Jef Allbright writes: [Stathis Papaioannou] If slavery could be scientifically shown to promote the well-being of the species as a whole does that mean we should have slavery? Does it mean that slavery is good? Teaching that slavery is bad is similar to

RE: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-24 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Tom Caylor writes: On Dec 24, 3:49 am, Stathis Papaioannou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom Caylor writes: Bruno, I have been doing a lot of reading/thinking on your former posts on the Hypostases, other reading on Plotinus and the neo-Platonist hypostases, and the Christian

RE: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-24 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Tom Caylor writes: It is the ultimate irony that Jesus was taken to be blaspheming when he said he was one with the Father and before Abraham was, I AM, for no one can say that they are God. the mistake is the missing phrase at the end: ...except God. Yes, but what if Jesus was not God?

Re: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-24 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Tom Caylor writes: On Dec 24, 3:49 am, Stathis Papaioannou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom Caylor writes: Bruno, I have been doing a lot of reading/thinking on your former posts on the Hypostases, other reading on Plotinus and the neo-Platonist

Re: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-24 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Tom Caylor writes: It is the ultimate irony that Jesus was taken to be blaspheming when he said he was one with the Father and before Abraham was, I AM, for no one can say that they are God. the mistake is the missing phrase at the end: ...except God. Yes,

RE: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-24 Thread Jef Allbright
Brent Meeker wrote: That raises a fundamental question - should we believe what's true? Of course in general we don't know what's true and we never know it with certainity. But we do know some things, in the scientific, provisional sense. And we also have certain values which, as Jef

RE: computer pain

2006-12-24 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Brent Meeker writes: In fact, if we could reprogram our own minds at will, it would be a very different world. Suppose you were upset because you lost your job. You might decide to stay upset to the degree that it remains a motivating factor to look for other work, but not affect your

Re: Evil ? (was: Hypostases

2006-12-24 Thread Brent Meeker
Jef Allbright wrote: Brent Meeker wrote: That raises a fundamental question - should we believe what's true? Of course in general we don't know what's true and we never know it with certainity. But we do know some things, in the scientific, provisional sense. And we also have certain

Re: computer pain

2006-12-24 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Brent Meeker writes: In fact, if we could reprogram our own minds at will, it would be a very different world. Suppose you were upset because you lost your job. You might decide to stay upset to the degree that it remains a motivating factor to look for

RE: Evil ? (was: Hypostases

2006-12-24 Thread Jef Allbright
Brent Meeker wrote: Jef Allbright wrote: Brent Meeker wrote: That raises a fundamental question - should we believe what's true? Of course in general we don't know what's true and we never know it with certainity. But we do know some things, in the scientific, provisional sense.