Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/11/2019 6:58 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: But that's not absurd, because it is possible to have a radioactive atom that is isolated from all environment and other degrees of freedom and so it might exist in a superposition. But if you amplify the micro superposition and throw

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 7:40:42 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/11/2019 6:25 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 7:20:43 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 6:05:23 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/11/2019

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/11/2019 6:25 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 7:20:43 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 6:05:23 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 10/11/2019 2:13 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 1:50:34 PM

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 7:20:43 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 6:05:23 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/11/2019 2:13 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 1:50:34 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 6:05:23 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/11/2019 2:13 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 1:50:34 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/11/2019 11:35 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 12:27:19 PM

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/11/2019 2:13 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 1:50:34 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 10/11/2019 11:35 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 12:27:19 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 12:10:27 PM

Re: The multiverse is dangerous to science

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 2:55:09 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 3:12 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > *> I'll bet you Adrian Kent's paper* (did you read it?) is netter than >> Shut Up And Read Sean Carroll's Book On Many Worlds.* > > > I won't even ask you if you

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 1:50:34 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/11/2019 11:35 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 12:27:19 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 12:10:27 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On

Re: The multiverse is dangerous to science

On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 3:12 PM Philip Thrift wrote: *> I'll bet you Adrian Kent's paper* (did you read it?) is netter than Shut > Up And Read Sean Carroll's Book On Many Worlds.* I won't even ask you if you read it because I know you didn't, I didn't either but at least I skimmed it and found

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/11/2019 11:35 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 12:27:19 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 12:10:27 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 10/11/2019 12:18 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > I am saying that SINCE there is no unique

Fwd: Octopuses

So the government of the UK agrees that consciousness is implied by intelligent behavior. Brent Forwarded Message From Daniel C. Dennett:  In the United Kingdom, the law regarding cruelty to animals draws an important moral line at whether the animal is a vertebrate: as

Re: The multiverse is dangerous to science

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 1:59:04 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 2:43 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > *> Path Integrals and Reality* >> Adrian Kent >> https://arxiv.org/pdf/1305.6565.pdf >>

Re: The multiverse is dangerous to science

On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 2:43 PM Philip Thrift wrote: *> Path Integrals and Reality* > Adrian Kent > https://arxiv.org/pdf/1305.6565.pdf > > *> We define the idea of real path quantum theory, a realist > generalization of quantum theory in which it is postulated that the > configuration space

Re: The multiverse is dangerous to science

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 1:14:20 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: Path integrals are a method of calculation not a quantum interpretation ... > *Path Integrals and Reality* Adrian Kent https://arxiv.org/pdf/1305.6565.pdf *We define the idea of real path quantum theory, a realist

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On 10/11/2019 5:48 AM, smitra wrote: Indeed. The opposition to the MWI is not really motivated by the technical details, people tend to oppose it because they don't like the idea of "many words". Technical details are invoked but these apply just as well to QM in general not just to MWI.

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 12:27:19 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 12:10:27 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/11/2019 12:18 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> > I am saying that SINCE there is no unique representation, it's a >> > fallacy to take, say

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 12:10:27 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/11/2019 12:18 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > I am saying that SINCE there is no unique representation, it's a > > fallacy to take, say one representation, and assert that the > > components in one representation,

Re: The multiverse is dangerous to science

On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 1:35 PM Philip Thrift wrote: > I did a search of his book [ > https://books.google.com/books?id=f16IDwAAQBAJ ] and though he does write > about *Feynman diagrams* I don't see anything about *path integrals*. > That would be a curious omission. > Huh? I don't see what

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/11/2019 12:18 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: I am saying that SINCE there is no unique representation, it's a fallacy to take, say one representation, and assert that the components in one representation, simultaneously represent the wf. But that's an invalid inference.  If there is no

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 12:41:53 PM UTC-5, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 9:40:10 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 1:51:12 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 10:53:29 PM

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 9:40:10 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 1:51:12 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 10:53:29 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/10/2019 6:55 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>>

Re: The multiverse is dangerous to science

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 9:32:04 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 2:49 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > >> https://aeon.co/essays/post-empirical-science-is-an-oxymoron-and-it-is-dangerous >> > > *> the so-called Many-Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, there >>

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 1:51:12 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 10:53:29 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/10/2019 6:55 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 3:37:13 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>>

Re: The multiverse is dangerous to science

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 2:49 PM Philip Thrift wrote: https://aeon.co/essays/post-empirical-science-is-an-oxymoron-and-it-is-dangerous > *> the so-called Many-Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, there are > universes containing our parallel selves, identical to us but for their >

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On 10-10-2019 23:42, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 5:16 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: And of course nobody but me has bothered to read his book, but everybody has an opinion about it. _You keep posting that, but I've already posted that I have read Carroll's

Re: The multiverse is dangerous to science

> On 8 Oct 2019, at 21:22, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 11:17:35 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 8:22:10 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 7 Oct 2019, at 20:49, Philip Thrift > wrote: >> >> >> >>

Re: The multiverse is dangerous to science

> On 8 Oct 2019, at 19:17, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 8:22:10 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 7 Oct 2019, at 20:49, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> https://aeon.co/essays/post-empirical-science-is-an-oxymoron-and-it-is-dangerous >> >>

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

> On 10 Oct 2019, at 23:43, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 2:16 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > After all the ducking and weaving below, Bruno, I must reluctantly come to > the conclusion that you are not actually interested in engaging with the >

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

> On 8 Oct 2019, at 20:19, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 10/8/2019 4:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 6 Oct 2019, at 19:33, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/6/2019 1:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: When Alice and Bob are

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

> On 8 Oct 2019, at 20:15, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 10/8/2019 4:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> We might interpret the wave differently. Of course, from what I have proven >> about “digital mechanism”, I expect physics describing only the physical >>

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

> On 10 Oct 2019, at 09:33, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 3:59:50 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 4:55 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > Other interpretations (but not MWI, as far as I can see) are used in > > writing programs for

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

> On 9 Oct 2019, at 22:55, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 2:41:19 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 4:54 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > I haven't seen yet where MWI serves any useful purpose. > > If you're only interested in making a

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

> On 9 Oct 2019, at 11:17, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 6:24:28 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > On 10/8/2019 2:59 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 2:40:33 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> That MWI entails other, unobservable

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 10:53:29 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/10/2019 6:55 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 3:37:13 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 3:27:58 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 9:53:29 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/10/2019 6:55 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 3:37:13 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 3:27:58 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On