Re: Re: Re: Re: Why self-organization programs cannot be alive

2012-10-20 Thread Roger Clough
). Roger Clough Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-19, 19:26:04 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Why self-organization programs cannot be alive On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 05:39:58AM -0400, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Russell Standish Bernard cells are mechanical, not caused by a self as agent but by laws

Re: Why self-organization programs cannot be alive

2012-10-20 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Creating structure out of a random environment requires intelligence, the ability to make choices on one's own. Thus we can conclude that when the sun evaporates salty water salt crystals do not form because a liquid is a

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why self-organization programs cannot be alive

2012-10-20 Thread Russell Standish
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 08:18:16AM -0400, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Russell Standish But the robot plants could not grow more robot structure for free nor produce seeds. Or produce beautiful sweet-smelling flowers. If they could produce more robot structure, we ought to use them to produce

Re: Re: Re: Why self-organization programs cannot be alive

2012-10-19 Thread Roger Clough
- From: Russell Standish Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-17, 17:39:38 Subject: Re: Why self-organization programs cannot be alive On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 06:54:31AM -0400, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Russell Standish Creating structure out of a random environment requires

Re: Re: Re: Why self-organization programs cannot be alive

2012-10-19 Thread Russell Standish
On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 05:39:58AM -0400, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Russell Standish Bernard cells are mechanical, not caused by a self as agent but by laws of physics. They may be self-organizing, but there's no self to organize things. Photosynthesis is a life process, not mechanical

Re: Re: Why self-organization programs cannot be alive

2012-10-18 Thread Roger Clough
10/18/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Russell Standish Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-17, 17:39:38 Subject: Re: Why self-organization programs cannot be alive On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 06:54

Re: Re: Why self-organization programs cannot be alive

2012-10-18 Thread Russell Standish
: everything-list Time: 2012-10-17, 17:39:38 Subject: Re: Why self-organization programs cannot be alive On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 06:54:31AM -0400, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Russell Standish Creating structure out of a random environment requires intelligence, the ability to make

Re: Why self-organization programs cannot be alive

2012-10-17 Thread Russell Standish
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 06:54:31AM -0400, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Russell Standish Creating structure out of a random environment requires intelligence, the ability to make choices on one's own. Self-organization does not have that capacity, it merely follows a computer program. So