Hi Russell Standish 

I apologize for using two different concepts of
creation of structure from randomness. 

There are two types of creation of structure: 
by life, where there is an agent or self to create things,
and by a computer program, where creation is mechanical. 

Self-organization is purely mechanical and does not require 
nor does it have a self.  It just uses a computer program 
written elsewhere. But photosynthesis is by a living cell
entity. The organization of light into cell structure is
not self-organization, which is purely mechanical.


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
10/18/2012  
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 


----- Receiving the following content -----  
From: Russell Standish  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-10-17, 17:39:38 
Subject: Re: Why self-organization programs cannot be alive 


On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 06:54:31AM -0400, Roger Clough wrote: 
> Hi Russell Standish  
>  
> Creating structure out of a random environment 
> requires intelligence, the ability to make choices 
> on one's own. Self-organization does not have 
> that capacity, it merely follows a computer program. 
> So self-organization programs cannot be alive, 
> having no intelligence and no free will. In short, 
> they have no self. Instead, they are slaved to a computer 
> programmer. 
>  

This is confusing. How do you explain how self-organisation creates 
structure from initially disordered states? 

In the first sentence, you claim this requires intelligence. In the 
second sentence, you claim self-organisation is not.  

This is a contradiction. 

--  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) 
Principal, High Performance Coders 
Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au 
University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au 
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