Re: Turing vs math

1999-11-04 Thread Marchal
Jacques M. Mallah wrote: On 2 Mar -1, Marchal wrote: Take the self-duplication experiment as a simple illustration, where after having been read I am reconstitued at two different places. Nobody (not even God) can compute where I will find myself after the duplication. That has

Re: Turing vs math

1999-11-04 Thread hal
Juergen Schmidhuber writes: Hal: Approximate probabilities based on approximations to the K. complexity of a string are no more computable than precise ones. There is no fixed bound B which allows you to compute the K. complexity of an arbitrary string within accuracy B. You should

Re: Turing vs math

1999-11-04 Thread Juergen Schmidhuber
Step n owns 2^(n-1) initial segments. Bruno, why are we discussing this? Sure, in finite time you can compute all initial segments of size n. In countable time you can compute one real, or a countable number of reals. But each of your steps needs more than twice the time required by the

FW: Turing vs math

1999-11-02 Thread Bostrom,N (pg)
Bruno wrote: Juergen Schmidhuber: Even the set of all real #'s is not formally describable. You cannot write a program that lists all reals. In infinite but countable time you can write down a particular computable real, but

RE: Turing vs math

1999-11-02 Thread Bostrom,N (pg)
Bruno wrote: Juergen Schmidhuber: Even the set of all real #'s is not formally describable. You cannot write a program that lists all reals. In infinite but countable time you can write down a particular

Re: Turing vs math

1999-10-27 Thread Gilles HENRI
Why assume non-computable stuff without compelling reason? Shaved by Occam's razor. Jacques: On the contrary. Why assume the lack of *any* given type of mathematical stucture? A true everything-hypothesis surely would not. Occam's razor says: don't add extra distinctions such as a

Re: Turing vs math

1999-10-27 Thread Juergen Schmidhuber
Why assume non-computable stuff without compelling reason? Shaved by Occam's razor. Jacques: On the contrary. Why assume the lack of *any* given type of mathematical stucture? A true everything-hypothesis surely would not. Occam's razor says: don't add extra distinctions such as a

Re: Turing vs math

1999-10-26 Thread Juergen Schmidhuber
Jacques Mallah wrote: I agree with Alistair Malcolm that Turing machines are not enough A continuous structure is a perfectly good mathematical structure, but no Turing based scheme can include it. Why assume non-computable stuff without compelling reason? Shaved by Occam's

Re: Turing vs math

1999-10-25 Thread Marchal
Juergen Schmidhuber wrote: In absence of evidence to the contrary we assume that the presence of your consciousness (whatever that may be) is detectable by a computable process, namely, the one employed by you, the observer, who decides that he exists, via some sort of computation taking

Re: Turing vs math

1999-10-22 Thread Juergen Schmidhuber
Bruno: Honestly it is still not clear. How could ever S(U)=TRUE be computable ? As a computer scientist I guess you know that even the apparently simple question does that piece of code computes the factorial function is not computable. Sure, it's not even decidable in general whether a

RE: Turing vs math

1999-10-21 Thread hal
[I sent this privately by accident] James Higgo writes: What that postulates is that everything exists, and that means you exist and I exist in an infinity of all possible variations. I'm perfectly comfortable with this, as I am an MWI-er. In this view, the only reason you ever get a

RE: Turing vs math

1999-10-21 Thread hal
Why can't the simplest possible program be taken as computing a universe which includes us? We tend to say it computes all universes as though it computes more than one. Then it is fair to object that the program is too simple, because it computes more than one universe. But this is a semantic

Re: Turing vs math

1999-10-21 Thread GSLevy
In a message dated 99-10-21 11:53:14 EDT, James Higgo writes: Yes but the everything universe has the shortest algorithm, containing just one bit of information. The sub-universes do not need algorithms, just the WAP. and Juergen Scmidhuber replies Ah! The point is: the information

Re: Turing vs math

1999-10-21 Thread Juergen Schmidhuber
Bruno wrote: I don't take the notion of observer for granted. Neither do I, of course. The observer O is something computable that evolves in some universe U. The problem is that to be in a universe has no clear meaning But it does. There is a computable predicate S such that S(U)=TRUE if