Re: contention: theories are incompatible

2005-11-18 Thread Bruno Marchal


Le 18-nov.-05, à 05:26, Stephen Paul King a écrit :

   It seems logical. The Notion of Everything is 1st person in the 
sense that one, any one, can find itself within it. Nothing, on the 
other hand, only makes sense as seen from some external vantage point, 
hence it is 3rd person.




I can understand why there is no notion of first person nothingness 
(and this is the base of the non cul-de-sac appearing with the first 
person notion(*).


But for everything I think we can have some third person notions. 
Typical examples are the complete trace of the running of the UD, 
written UD*, or a model of PA, ZF, etc.
The first person notion of everything (the 1-plenitude) is, assuming 
comp, so big that it is unnamable by any machine (provably so if the 
person is some fixed not too complex Lobian machine, like a theorem 
prover for PA).


Bruno


(*) For those who remembers the modal introduction: a no-cul-de-sac 
multiverse (a multiverse where all observer-moment/world/state are 
transitory) verifies the formula []p - p (the so-called deontic 
formula d). Note that d is not a theorem of G, but is a theorem of G*.
d is the well known main axiom for the deontic logic of obligation 
/permission: indeed a world where d is false is a world where something 
is obligatory and not permitted. You can put anyone in jail-cul-de-sac 
there!


General question: what do you prefer, as notation (illustrated on the 
formula d) :


Box p - Diamond p
Bp - Dp
[]p - p?

Are there people who does not see that
1) whatever the truth value of p, Bp - Dp is true in all the worlds of 
a non-cul-de-sac multiverse.
2) if Bp - Dp is true in all world of multiverse, whatever the truth 
value of p is given in each world, then the multiverse is a 
non-cul-de-sac multiverse.


This is easy. If you don't see this, it means you don't remember the 
definition of Kripke semantics, or that you don't know classical logic.


Modal logic is really the general theory of Multiverses, and other 
multimultiverses, you know. I hardly doubt we will be able to proceed 
without getting more familiar with it.
I am actually teaching modal logic and students ask me summary notes. I 
am thinking making them in English and posting them to the list. The 
post by uv makes me think I should soon or later explain more about 
Solovay theorem, which makes the link betwwen the metamathematical 
results of Godel, Lob and the G and G* logics discovered by Solovay, 
and which are pillar of the interview of the universal machine.


Bruno


http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/




Re: Quantum Immortality and Information Flow

2005-11-18 Thread Stephen Paul King

Dear Bruno,

   Are you claiming that the communicable part is to the non-communicable 
part as the classical is to the quantum? The Non-cloning aspect of QM and 
the copyability of the classical seems to be implied. Is this intentional?


Onward!

Stephen

- Original Message - 
From: Bruno Marchal [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Everything-List List everything-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: Quantum Immortality and Information Flow


snip

Well, actually I hope it will gives the qubits.
I am not contesting the Everett-Hartle-... Deutsch-Zurek explanation of 
how bits come from qubits. Just saying comp gives a  path from bits to 
qubits too.  A double path.
It is the incompleteness phenomenon(*)  which makes that path double, i.e. 
separated into a communicable part and a non communicable part explaining 
simultaneously quanta and qualia (I would argue).