Re: Chaos makes axioms unnecessary

2018-12-05 Thread Philip Thrift
On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 9:54:05 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 12/5/2018 11:00 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > "How many axioms would be needed [to model nature]?...if we look at the > universe in totality and not bracket any subset of phenomena, t*he > mathematics we would need

Re: Extended Wigner’s Friend

2018-12-05 Thread Mason Green
To go into further detail, creatures who perceived time that way would not be able to maintain a sense of personal continuity or selfhood for very long, since they have many future “selves” and past “selves”. So instead, they prefer to think of their future and past “selves” as other people

Re: Extended Wigner’s Friend

2018-12-05 Thread Mason Green
Ah, yes, multiple histories. Given only what we know now about the universe (and not what we “remember from before”, since our memories are actually just patterns encoded in our brain at the present moment), what’s to stop us from thinking that entropy was higher in the past and things just

Re: Chaos makes axioms unnecessary

2018-12-05 Thread Brent Meeker
On 12/5/2018 11:00 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: "How many axioms would be needed [to model nature]?...if we look at the universe in totality and not bracket any subset of phenomena, t*he mathematics we would need would have no axioms at all* It is only the way we look at the universe that

Re: Coherent states of a superposition

2018-12-05 Thread agrayson2000
On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 9:42:51 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 10:52 PM > wrote: > >> On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 11:42:06 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com >> wrote: >>> >>> On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 9:57:41 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at

Re: Measuring a system in a superposition of states vs in a mixed state

2018-12-05 Thread agrayson2000
On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 9:46:08 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 11:01 PM > wrote: > >> On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 5:39:43 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 3:53 PM Philip Thrift wrote: >>> On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 10:28:39 PM UTC-6,

Re: Measuring a system in a superposition of states vs in a mixed state

2018-12-05 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 11:01 PM wrote: > On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 5:39:43 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 3:53 PM Philip Thrift wrote: >> >>> On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 10:28:39 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 3:45:32 PM

Re: Coherent states of a superposition

2018-12-05 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 10:52 PM wrote: > On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 11:42:06 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com > wrote: >> >> On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 9:57:41 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 2:36 AM wrote: >>> *Thanks, but I'm looking for a solution within

Chaos makes axioms unnecessary

2018-12-05 Thread Philip Thrift
"How many axioms would be needed [to model nature]?...if we look at the universe in totality and not bracket any subset of phenomena, t*he mathematics we would need would have no axioms at all* It is only the way we look at the universe that gives us the illusion of structure." Chaos

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-05 Thread Philip Thrift
On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 5:29:44 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 4 Dec 2018, at 17:48, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > >> >> >> On the truth of computationalism, I mean to express emphatically that >> *computationalism >> is indeed false*, and it should be replaced by what I call

Re: Where Max Tegmark is really wrong

2018-12-05 Thread Philip Thrift
On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 10:05:44 AM UTC-6, Mark Buda wrote: > > Philip Thrift > writes: > > > On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 4:50:22 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 12/4/2018 11:50 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 1:46:44 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote:

Re: Where Max Tegmark is really wrong

2018-12-05 Thread agrayson2000
On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 4:19:12 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 3, 2018 at 3:37:13 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 2 Dec 2018, at 21:25, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 2:02:43 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>>

Re: Where Max Tegmark is really wrong

2018-12-05 Thread agrayson2000
On Monday, December 3, 2018 at 3:37:13 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 2 Dec 2018, at 21:25, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 2:02:43 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 12/2/2018 4:58 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 30 Nov 2018, at 19:22, Brent

Re: Where Max Tegmark is really wrong

2018-12-05 Thread Mark Buda
Philip Thrift writes: > On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 4:50:22 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > On 12/4/2018 11:50 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 1:46:44 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > On 12/4/2018 12:06 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > Can you give an example of "truth in

Re: Measuring a system in a superposition of states vs in a mixed state

2018-12-05 Thread agrayson2000
On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 5:39:43 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 3:53 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > >> On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 10:28:39 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 3:45:32 PM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: On Wed, Dec 5,

Re: Coherent states of a superposition

2018-12-05 Thread agrayson2000
On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 11:42:06 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 9:57:41 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 2:36 AM wrote: >> >>> >>> *Thanks, but I'm looking for a solution within the context of >>> interference and

Re: Coherent states of a superposition

2018-12-05 Thread agrayson2000
On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 9:57:41 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 2:36 AM > wrote: > >> >> *Thanks, but I'm looking for a solution within the context of >> interference and coherence, without introducing your theory of >> consciousness. Mainstream thinking today is that

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-05 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 4 Dec 2018, at 17:48, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 6:37:01 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 4 Dec 2018, at 11:39, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 4:25:37 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 3 Dec 2018,

Re: Measuring a system in a superposition of states vs in a mixed state

2018-12-05 Thread Philip Thrift
On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 1:55:22 AM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 6:08 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > >> >>> As has been pointed out, path integrals are a calculational tool, not an >>> interpretation. >>> >> >> >> Oh,* that* again. It's like Groundhog Day (the movie).