Re: The Time Deniers

2005-07-11 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Mon, Jul 11, 2005 at 03:48:48PM +1000, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > (c) A random string of binary code is run on a computer. There exists a > programming language which, when a program is written in this language so > that it is the same program as in (a) and (b), then compiled, the binary >

RE: The Time Deniers

2005-07-11 Thread "Hal Finney"
Lee Corbin writes: > Hal Finney writes > > Can we imagine a universe like ours, which follows exactly the > > same natural laws, but where time doesn't really exist (in some > > sense), where there is no actual causality? > > You yourself have already provided the key example in imagining > a two d

RE: The Time Deniers

2005-07-11 Thread "Hal Finney"
Stathis Papaioannou writes: > (c) A random string of binary code is run on a computer. There exists a > programming language which, when a program is written in this language so > that it is the same program as in (a) and (b), then compiled, the binary > code so produced is the same as this rand

Re: where do copies come from?

2005-07-11 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Mon, Jul 11, 2005 at 10:31:56AM +1000, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > Perhaps, perhaps not. For one thing, in the brain's case we are relying on > the laws of chemistry and physics, which in the real world are invariable; > we don't know what would happen if these laws were slightly off in a

Re: UDA, Am I missing something?

2005-07-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 09-juil.-05, à 08:56, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : As such, I appreciate your willingness to have a discourse on the assumptions in the UDA. Thanks. And to "derive" conclusions is a way to discuss hypotheses. I have always been willing to discover that comp is contradictory. Until now I have o

Re: Rép : Thought Experiment #269-G (Duplicat es)

2005-07-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 10-juil.-05, à 04:11, Lee Corbin a écrit : Bruno writes You are asked to bet on your immediate and less immediate future feeling. Precisely: we ask you to choose among the following bets: Immediate: A. I will see 0 on the wall. B. I will see 1 on the wall. C. I will see 0 on the wall and

Re: where do copies come from?

2005-07-11 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Eugen Leitl writes: > likely that multiple error correction and negative feedback systems are in > place to ensure that small changes are not chaotically amplified to cause > gross mental changes after a few seconds, and all these systems would have > to be simulated as well. The end result m

Re: The Time Deniers and the idea of time as a "dimension"

2005-07-11 Thread chris peck
Hi Stephen; I suppose we can think of time as a dimension. However, there are provisos. Time is not like x, y, or z in so far as we have no ability to freely navigate the axis in any direction we choose. We are embedded in time and it moves onwards in a single direction without anyone’s consen

The Time Deniers and the idea of time as a "dimension"

2005-07-11 Thread James N Rose
chris peck wrote: > > Hi Stephen; > > I suppose we can think of time as a dimension. However, there are provisos. > Time is not like x, y, or z in so far as we have no ability to freely > navigate the axis in any direction we choose. We are embedded in time and it > moves onwards in a single dire

RE: The Time Deniers and the idea of time as a "dimension"

2005-07-11 Thread chris peck
Hi James; I suspected that this part of my argument to Stephen would raise objections from other members of this board. '>Actually, this is not correct; but a presumption of experiential pre-bias.' It may be. Nevertheless, without the experience to hand at all, I maintain that the asymetry

Re: UDA, Am I missing something?

2005-07-11 Thread daddycaylor
Tom>> Instead of "conscious brain" I should have said "consciousness".  The yes-doctor hypothesis in comp tells me that you are assuming the existence of consciousness.     Bruno> Yes. Under the form of a minimal amount of what is called (in philosophy of mind/cognitive science) "grandmother or

What if computation is unrepeatable?

2005-07-11 Thread Norman Samish
http://arxiv.org/abs/nlin.AO/0506030 shows the following abstract, suggesting that complex computations are not precisely repeatable. Doesn't Bruno's Computation Hypothesis imply that computations ARE precisely repeatable? "Modern computer microprocessors are composed of hundreds of millions o

RE: What if computation is unrepeatable?

2005-07-11 Thread Jesse Mazer
Norman Samish wrote: http://arxiv.org/abs/nlin.AO/0506030 shows the following abstract, suggesting that complex computations are not precisely repeatable. Doesn't Bruno's Computation Hypothesis imply that computations ARE precisely repeatable? "Modern computer microprocessors are composed of

Re: What if computation is unrepeatable?

2005-07-11 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Mon, Jul 11, 2005 at 04:45:21PM -0400, Jesse Mazer wrote: > I don't think that paper is talking about computations being > nonrepeatable--they say that they're not talking about "stochastic > variations" (which I think refers to genuine physical sources of > randomness), but instead about so

RE: where do copies come from?

2005-07-11 Thread Brent Meeker
>-Original Message- >From: Stathis Papaioannou [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 6:33 AM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Cc: everything-list@eskimo.com >Subject: RE: where do copies come from? > > >>Brent Meeker writes: > >>I find it hard to believe that something as stable a

Re: What if computation is unrepeatable?

2005-07-11 Thread Jesse Mazer
Eugen Leitl wrote: On Mon, Jul 11, 2005 at 04:45:21PM -0400, Jesse Mazer wrote: > I don't think that paper is talking about computations being > nonrepeatable--they say that they're not talking about "stochastic > variations" (which I think refers to genuine physical sources of > randomness), b

RE: What if computation is unrepeatable?

2005-07-11 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Norman Samish writes: http://arxiv.org/abs/nlin.AO/0506030 shows the following abstract, suggesting that complex computations are not precisely repeatable. Doesn't Bruno's Computation Hypothesis imply that computations ARE precisely repeatable? "Modern computer microprocessors are composed of

RE: Rép : Thought Experiment #269-G (Duplicates)

2005-07-11 Thread Lee Corbin
Bruno writes > I asked you to predict your immediate first person experience, not a > bird's view of the situation. This explain why if I'm in good move you > just win nothing, and if I'm in bad mood you and all the Lees own me > five dollars! Of course, I predict that I'll have one 1st person

RE: where do copies come from?

2005-07-11 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
>>Brent Meeker writes: > >>I find it hard to believe that something as stable as memories that last >>for >>decades is encoded in a way dependent on ionic gradients across cell >>membranes >>and the type, number, distribution and conformation of receptor and ion >>channel >>proteins. What evidenc

Re: where do copies come from?

2005-07-11 Thread George Levy
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: The ionic gradients across cell membranes determine the transmembrane potential and how close the neuron is to the voltage threshold which will trigger an action potential by opening transmembrane ion channels. Other factors influencing this include the exact geometry