Re: Determinism in the case of bifurcations and symmetry breaking

2012-03-25 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
Let us take Benard cells for example. It is a good idea. I guess that in this case the incompressible Navier-Stokes equations with the Boussinesq approximation for free convection should suffer. If I understand correctly, bifurcation in this case arises when we increase the temperature differe

Re: Determinism in the case of bifurcations and symmetry breaking

2012-03-25 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
I have found Logistic Map http://mathworld.wolfram.com/LogisticMap.html Here the system has very different outcomes depending from initial conditions (now I understand your use of statistics). Yet, each trajectory is deterministic. Hence, this was not my question. Sorry for being unclear. Bi

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-25 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 14.03.2012 19:58 meekerdb said the following: On 3/14/2012 11:51 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... Then the thermodynamic entropy is subjective. Try to convince in this engineers who develop engines, or chemists who compute equilibria, and see what happens. It is relative not just to the inf

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-25 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 15.03.2012 22:58 Russell Standish said the following: On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 07:25:01PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.03.2012 23:34 Russell Standish said the following: On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 07:51:13PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Then the thermodynamic entropy is subjective. Try t

Re: Determinism in the case of bifurcations and symmetry breaking

2012-03-25 Thread meekerdb
On 3/25/2012 2:43 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Let us take Benard cells for example. It is a good idea. I guess that in this case the incompressible Navier-Stokes equations with the Boussinesq approximation for free convection should suffer. If I understand correctly, bifurcation in this case ari

Re: Theology or not theology (Re: COMP theology)

2012-03-25 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Mar 24, 3:58 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > OK, nice. Many confuse comp (I am a machine) and digital physics > (reality is a machine), but comp makes reality, whatever it can be, > being NOT a machine, nor the output of a machine. It is more a > perspective effect on infinities of computations.

Re: Determinism in the case of bifurcations and symmetry breaking

2012-03-25 Thread Stephen P. King
On 3/25/2012 2:46 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 3/25/2012 2:43 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Let us take Benard cells for example. It is a good idea. I guess that in this case the incompressible Navier-Stokes equations with the Boussinesq approximation for free convection should suffer. If I understand

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-25 Thread Russell Standish
On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 03:49:17PM +0200, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: > > Do you mean that the Laplace deamon would not agree with the Second Law? > > Evgenii > Yes - there is no second law for the Laplace daemon. Each microstate is distinct and equiprobable. Cheers -- ---

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-25 Thread meekerdb
On 3/25/2012 6:44 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.03.2012 19:58 meekerdb said the following: On 3/14/2012 11:51 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... Then the thermodynamic entropy is subjective. Try to convince in this engineers who develop engines, or chemists who compute equilibria, and see what