Re: Re: What are monads ? A difficulty
Hi Stephen P. King I have heard similar ideas that quanta can be subjective, but there is also an explanation for wave collapse which does not involve consciousness, namely, that intevention by a probe to examine the wave function wlll most assuredly cause the delicate multiple solutions to the wave function to lose coherence. And on the other hand we have the theory by Penrose (I hope I'm not getting this wrong) that massive collapse of a coherent brain wave function in fact does the opposite-- it causes consciousness. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/24/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-23, 13:50:13 Subject: Re: What are monads ? A difficulty On 8/23/2012 1:28 PM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King hmmm. Quanta and monads are singular entities. QM has the dualism particle/wave Monadology has extended/inextended. These might be construed as similar. But QM doesn't to my knowledge have the dualism objective/subjective unless the waveform is subjective. Hi Roger, A QM system is not just a wavefunction; the wavefunction is just one of its canonical descriptions. The unitary evolution of a QM system is a computation (minus the input and output). Thus by Bruno's reasoning it has a 1p and is, as you say, subjective. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/23/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-23, 13:03:04 Subject: Re: What are monads ? A difficulty Hi Roger, I like the idea that pure QM systems are the best example of a monad. -- Onward! Stephen Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed. ~ Francis Bacon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Re: What are monads ? A difficulty
Hi Richard Ruquist I am in very deep water here, but IMHO subjectivity is not a separate entity -- it is a dualistic activity requiring two parts: subjectivity = subject + object Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/24/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-23, 13:35:20 Subject: Re: Re: What are monads ? A difficulty The waveform is subjective as it represents a particular quantum state. In COMP terms it is 3p. But comp people may not think of it as subjective since every quantum state is realized and therefore all quanta are objective. On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Stephen P. King hmmm. Quanta and monads are singular entities. QM has the dualism particle/wave Monadology has extended/inextended. These might be construed as similar. But QM doesn't to my knowledge have the dualism objective/subjective unless the waveform is subjective. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/23/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-23, 13:03:04 Subject: Re: What are monads ? A difficulty Hi Roger, I like the idea that pure QM systems are the best example of a monad. On 8/23/2012 11:14 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King Right. The world is filled with monadswas just a way of saying things, just a rhetorical phrase. All physical things in the world are substances rather than monads. If you can measure it, it's not a monad. If you can think of it, in some cases (see below) it is a monad. Monads are simply mental points in ideal space, which have a potential driving force, such as the driving force of life (called entelechy). A desire to realize its own potential. So monads can be said to be alive. Monads have to be uniform substances that one could use as the subject of a sentence. As as thought of, as intended, with no parts. Personally I would correct that to say no parts at the level of image magnification intended. This is one of the main difficulties in understanding Leibniz. If you think of Socrates as a whole, not separately of organs, etc., that Socrates would be a monad. A monad has to be, as they say, the whole enchilada. I would say thus that I am a monad, as are you. Monads and snd the substances they refer to are infinite in variety. Space and time are excluded from this as space and time separately are not in spacetime. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/23/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-23, 08:28:33 Subject: Re: Leibniz's theodicy: a nonlocal and hopefully best mereology Hi Roger, I agree in spirit with you but cringe at the use of the word filled. Do you have any ideas as to the mereological relation between monads? On 8/23/2012 8:08 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Richard, There are an infinite number of different monads, since the world is filled with them and each is a different perspective on the whole of the rest. Not only that, but they keep changing, as all life does. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/23/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. -- Onward! Stephen Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed. ~ Francis Bacon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: What are monads ? A difficulty
Hi Richard Ruquist Yes, I try to preach Leibniz chapter and verse. I'm still waiting for critical thinking from you. Whatever is in spacetime, such as a string, is extended. Monads aree inextended. I try not to dabble with string theory, at least at this stage. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/23/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-23, 11:24:35 Subject: Re: What are monads ? A difficulty Roger, It seems to me that you are preaching the religion of monads based on Leibniz. Thus as in most religions, there is no opportunity for critical thinking and research. Almost all of what you say of monads below disagrees with string theory. BTW I do not have any questions you are tired of answering, I only have answers for you. Richard On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Stephen P. King Right. The world is filled with monadswas just a way of saying things, just a rhetorical phrase. All physical things in the world are substances rather than monads. If you can measure it, it's not a monad. If you can think of it, in some cases (see below) it is a monad. Monads are simply mental points in ideal space, which have a potential driving force, such as the driving force of life (called entelechy). A desire to realize its own potential. So monads can be said to be alive. Monads have to be uniform substances that one could use as the subject of a sentence. As as thought of, as intended, with no parts. Personally I would correct that to say no parts at the level of image magnification intended. This is one of the main difficulties in understanding Leibniz. If you think of Socrates as a whole, not separately of organs, etc., that Socrates would be a monad. A monad has to be, as they say, the whole enchilada. I would say thus that I am a monad, as are you. Monads and snd the substances they refer to are infinite in variety. Space and time are excluded from this as space and time separately are not in spacetime. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/23/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-23, 08:28:33 Subject: Re: Leibniz's theodicy: a nonlocal and hopefully best mereology Hi Roger, I agree in spirit with you but cringe at the use of the word filled. Do you have any ideas as to the mereological relation between monads? On 8/23/2012 8:08 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Richard, There are an infinite number of different monads, since the world is filled with them and each is a different perspective on the whole of the rest. Not only that, but they keep changing, as all life does. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/23/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-22, 11:24:16 Subject: Re: Leibniz's theodicy: a nonlocal and hopefully best mereology What exactly determines the 10^500 number? On 8/22/2012 9:19 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote: That there are 10^500 possible configurations of the monads. Scientist believe that each possible universe contains but one kind of monad.. On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Richard Ruquist What is the landscape problem ? Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/22/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-21, 21:26:58 Subject: Re: Leibniz's theodicy: a nonlocal and hopefully best mereology Stephan, I solved the landscape problem by assuming that each monad was distinct consistent with the astronomical observations that the hyperfine constant varied monotonically across the universe. Richard On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote: On 8/21/2012 3:58 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: ?teinberg P. Soft Physics from RHIC to the LHC. ?rXiv:nucl-ex/09031471, 2009. ?ovtum PK, Son DT Starinets AO. Viscosity in Strongly Interacting Quantum Field Theories from Black Hole Physics. arXiv:hep-th/0405231. ? Good! Now to see if there any any other possible explanations that do not have the landscape problem... On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote: On 8/21/2012 3:39 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: String theory predicts the viscosity of the quark-gluon plasma already found at the LHC and several other sites. Hi Richard, ? Could you link some sources on this? On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Stephen P
Re: Re: What are monads ? A difficulty
Roger, All I have ever given you is critical thinking based on string theory. but you seem uninterested. How does parroting what Leibniz amount to critical thinking. It's really religion. Your limiting yourself by not learning string theory which is all about monads.. Richard On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Richard Ruquist Yes, I try to preach Leibniz chapter and verse. I'm still waiting for critical thinking from you. Whatever is in spacetime, such as a string, is extended. Monads aree inextended. I try not to dabble with string theory, at least at this stage. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/23/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. - Receiving the following content - *From:* Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com *Receiver:* everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com *Time:* 2012-08-23, 11:24:35 *Subject:* Re: What are monads ? A difficulty Roger, It seems to me that you are preaching the religion of monads based on Leibniz. Thus as in most religions, there is no opportunity for critical thinking and research. Almost all of what you say of monads below disagrees with string theory. BTW I do not have any questions you are tired of answering, I only have answers for you. Richard On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.netwrote: Hi Stephen P. King Right. The world is filled with monadswas just a way of saying things, just a rhetorical phrase. All physical things in the world are substances rather than monads. If you can measure it, it's not a monad. If you can think of it, in some cases (see below) it is a monad. Monads are simply mental points in ideal space, which have a potential driving force, such as the driving force of life (called entelechy). A desire to realize its own potential. So monads can be said to be alive. Monads have to be uniform substances that one could use as the subject of a sentence. As as thought of, as intended, with no parts. Personally I would correct that to say no parts at the level of image magnification intended. This is one of the main difficulties in understanding Leibniz. If you think of Socrates as a whole, not separately of organs, etc., that Socrates would be a monad. A monad has to be, as they say, the whole enchilada. I would say thus that I am a monad, as are you. Monads and snd the substances they refer to are infinite in variety. Space and time are excluded from this as space and time separately are not in spacetime. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/23/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. - Receiving the following content - *From:* Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net *Receiver:* everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com *Time:* 2012-08-23, 08:28:33 *Subject:* Re: Leibniz's theodicy: a nonlocal and hopefully best mereology Hi Roger, I agree in spirit with you but cringe at the use of the word filled. Do you have any ideas as to the mereological relation between monads? On 8/23/2012 8:08 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Richard, There are an infinite number of different monads, since the world is filled with them and each is a different perspective on the whole of the rest. Not only that, but they keep changing, as all life does. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/23/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. - Receiving the following content - *From:* Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net *Receiver:* everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com *Time:* 2012-08-22, 11:24:16 *Subject:* Re: Leibniz's theodicy: a nonlocal and hopefully best mereology What exactly determines the 10^500 number? On 8/22/2012 9:19 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote: That there are 10^500 possible configurations of the monads. Scientist believe that each possible universe contains but one kind of monad.. On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.netwrote: Hi Richard Ruquist What is the landscape problem ? Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/22/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. - Receiving the following content - *From:* Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com *Receiver:* everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com *Time:* 2012-08-21, 21:26:58 *Subject:* Re: Leibniz's theodicy: a nonlocal and hopefully best mereology Stephan, I solved the landscape problem by assuming that each monad was distinct consistent with the astronomical observations that the hyperfine constant varied monotonically across the universe. Richard On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote: On 8/21/2012 3:58 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: 燬teinberg P. Soft Physics from
Re: Re: What are monads ? A difficulty
Hi Stephen P. King hmmm. Quanta and monads are singular entities. QM has the dualism particle/wave Monadology has extended/inextended. These might be construed as similar. But QM doesn't to my knowledge have the dualism objective/subjective unless the waveform is subjective. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/23/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-23, 13:03:04 Subject: Re: What are monads ? A difficulty Hi Roger, I like the idea that pure QM systems are the best example of a monad. On 8/23/2012 11:14 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King Right. The world is filled with monadswas just a way of saying things, just a rhetorical phrase. All physical things in the world are substances rather than monads. If you can measure it, it's not a monad. If you can think of it, in some cases (see below) it is a monad. Monads are simply mental points in ideal space, which have a potential driving force, such as the driving force of life (called entelechy). A desire to realize its own potential. So monads can be said to be alive. Monads have to be uniform substances that one could use as the subject of a sentence. As as thought of, as intended, with no parts. Personally I would correct that to say no parts at the level of image magnification intended. This is one of the main difficulties in understanding Leibniz. If you think of Socrates as a whole, not separately of organs, etc., that Socrates would be a monad. A monad has to be, as they say, the whole enchilada. I would say thus that I am a monad, as are you. Monads and snd the substances they refer to are infinite in variety. Space and time are excluded from this as space and time separately are not in spacetime. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/23/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-23, 08:28:33 Subject: Re: Leibniz's theodicy: a nonlocal and hopefully best mereology Hi Roger, I agree in spirit with you but cringe at the use of the word filled. Do you have any ideas as to the mereological relation between monads? On 8/23/2012 8:08 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Richard, There are an infinite number of different monads, since the world is filled with them and each is a different perspective on the whole of the rest. Not only that, but they keep changing, as all life does. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/23/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. -- Onward! Stephen Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed. ~ Francis Bacon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: What are monads ? A difficulty
The waveform is subjective as it represents a particular quantum state. In COMP terms it is 3p. But comp people may not think of it as subjective since every quantum state is realized and therefore all quanta are objective. On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Stephen P. King hmmm. Quanta and monads are singular entities. QM has the dualism particle/wave Monadology has extended/inextended. These might be construed as similar. But QM doesn't to my knowledge have the dualism objective/subjective unless the waveform is subjective. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/23/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. - Receiving the following content - *From:* Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net *Receiver:* everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com *Time:* 2012-08-23, 13:03:04 *Subject:* Re: What are monads ? A difficulty Hi Roger, I like the idea that pure QM systems are the best example of a monad. On 8/23/2012 11:14 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King Right. The world is filled with monadswas just a way of saying things, just a rhetorical phrase. All physical things in the world are substances rather than monads. If you can measure it, it's not a monad. If you can think of it, in some cases (see below) it is a monad. Monads are simply mental points in ideal space, which have a potential driving force, such as the driving force of life (called entelechy). A desire to realize its own potential. So monads can be said to be alive. Monads have to be uniform substances that one could use as the subject of a sentence. As as thought of, as intended, with no parts. Personally I would correct that to say no parts at the level of image magnification intended. This is one of the main difficulties in understanding Leibniz. If you think of Socrates as a whole, not separately of organs, etc., that Socrates would be a monad. A monad has to be, as they say, the whole enchilada. I would say thus that I am a monad, as are you. Monads and snd the substances they refer to are infinite in variety. Space and time are excluded from this as space and time separately are not in spacetime. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/23/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. - Receiving the following content - *From:* Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net *Receiver:* everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com *Time:* 2012-08-23, 08:28:33 *Subject:* Re: Leibniz's theodicy: a nonlocal and hopefully best mereology Hi Roger, I agree in spirit with you but cringe at the use of the word filled. Do you have any ideas as to the mereological relation between monads? On 8/23/2012 8:08 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Richard, There are an infinite number of different monads, since the world is filled with them and each is a different perspective on the whole of the rest. Not only that, but they keep changing, as all life does. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 8/23/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. -- Onward! Stephen Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed. ~ Francis Bacon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
