Re: Satellites show sea level rise is accelerating

2018-02-16 Thread Brent Meeker 



On 2/16/2018 10:12 AM, John Clark wrote:

107 Nobel laureates sign
​ed a​
letter
​strongly criticizing
 Greenpeace over
​its mindless opposition to all forms of ​
GMOs
​:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/06/29/more-than-100-nobel-laureates-take-on-greenpeace-over-gmo-stance/?utm_term=.1979bc3b12cb

And its not just Greenpeace.


As far as I can tell it is just Greenpeace.  And how many of the 107 
Nobel laureates consider themselves environmentalists...I'd guess ALL.


Brent

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Re: Satellites show sea level rise is accelerating

2018-02-16 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List 

What energy systems would you reco? Exclusive even of GMO chat etc..


-Original Message-
From: John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Feb 16, 2018 1:12 pm
Subject: Re: Satellites show sea level rise is accelerating



On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 6:12 PM, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:





​> ​
you have casually exaggerated based on the imagined policies of strawman 
environmentalists.



​Environmentalists 
claim to occupy the moral high ground but they have one hell of a lot to answer 
for. They managed to get DDT banned in 1972, the most powerful ​weapon we had 
against malaria causing mosquitos. The following is a graph of malaria deaths 
over time, tell me if you can spot something unusual about it in the early 
1970s.



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iXynnlm8k18/ULg0ZsR1SlI/Dow/8mhm5gJm8dY/s1600/F5.large.jpg
 




At one time I
​ ​
called myself an
​ ​
environmentalists
​ ​
but no longer, the very word has become polluted and no longer means what it 
once did. Every large mainstream environmental organization opposes 
insecticides,
​ ​
herbicides and artificial fertilizer but they also oppose genetically modified 
plants even though they don't need insecticides,
​ ​
herbicides
​ ​
or
​ ​
artificial fertilizers
​.​ 
107 Nobel laureates sign
​ed a​
 letter 
​strongly criticizing
 Greenpeace over 
​its mindless opposition to all forms of ​
GMOs
​:







https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/06/29/more-than-100-nobel-laureates-take-on-greenpeace-over-gmo-stance/?utm_term=.1979bc3b12cb



And its not just Greenpeace. Normal rice has no vitamin A and hundreds of 
millions of people eat almost nothing but rice so they get sick from vitamin A 
deficiency, about 2 million people
​ ​
die from 
​it ​
each
​ ​
year and a half a million children go blind. Scientists used genetic 
engineering to make "golden rice"
​ ​
that does contain
​ ​
vitamin A, but
​ ​
every large
​ ​
mainstream
​ ​
environmental organization opposes the use of it with every fibre of their 
being. Why? Because its genetically modified and that means it must be the work 
of the devil.
​ ​
To environmentalists the shooting of one gorilla at a zoo is a great tragedy 
but 8 million people starving to death each year (which GMO's could help 
prevent) is just a statistic.  


And of course every large mainstream
​ ​
environmental organization opposes
​ ​
greenhouse gasses, but they also oppose nuclear power plants even though they 
produce no greenhouse gasses and h
​has​
 
​by far ​
the best safety record of any power source.  
​More​
 people have died fallen off ladders installing ​rooftop solar cells than have 
died building or operating nuclear power plants.



 John K Clark





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Re: Satellites show sea level rise is accelerating

2018-02-16 Thread John Clark 
On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 6:12 PM, Brent Meeker  wrote:

*​> ​you have casually exaggerated based on the imagined policies of
> strawman environmentalists.*


​Environmentalists
claim to occupy the moral high ground but they have one hell of a lot to
answer for. They managed to get DDT banned in 1972, the most powerful
​weapon we had against malaria causing mosquitos. The following is a graph
of malaria deaths over time, tell me if you can spot something unusual
about it in the early 1970s.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iXynnlm8k18/ULg0ZsR1SlI/Dow/8mhm5gJm8dY/s1600/F5.large.jpg



At one time I
​ ​
called myself an
​ ​
environmentalists
​ ​
but no longer, the very word has become polluted and no longer means what
it once did. Every large mainstream environmental organization opposes
insecticides,
​ ​
herbicides and artificial fertilizer but they also oppose genetically
modified plants even though they don't need insecticides,
​ ​
herbicides
​ ​
or
​ ​
artificial fertilizers
​.​
107 Nobel laureates sign
​ed a​
letter
​strongly criticizing
 Greenpeace over
​its mindless opposition to all forms of ​
GMOs
​:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/06/29/more-than-100-nobel-laureates-take-on-greenpeace-over-gmo-stance/?utm_term=.1979bc3b12cb

And its not just Greenpeace. Normal rice has no vitamin A and hundreds of
millions of people eat almost nothing but rice so they get sick from
vitamin A deficiency, about 2 million people
​ ​
die from
​it ​
each
​ ​
year and a half a million children go blind. Scientists used genetic
engineering to make "golden rice"
​ ​
that *does* contain
​ ​
vitamin A, but
​ ​
every large
​ ​
mainstream
​ ​
environmental organization opposes the use of it with every fibre of their
being. Why? Because its genetically modified and that means it must be the
work of the devil.
​ ​
To environmentalists the shooting of one gorilla at a zoo is a great
tragedy but 8 million people starving to death each year (which GMO's could
help prevent) is just a statistic.

And of course every large mainstream
​ ​
environmental organization opposes
​ ​
greenhouse gasses, but they also oppose nuclear power plants even though
they produce no greenhouse gasses and h
​has​

​by far ​
the best safety record of any power source.
​More​
 people have died fallen off ladders installing ​rooftop solar cells than
have died building or operating nuclear power plants.

 John K Clark

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Re: Satellites show sea level rise is accelerating

2018-02-15 Thread Brent Meeker 



On 2/15/2018 11:24 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:59 AM, Lawrence Crowell 
>wrote:


/
​> ​
It is not the same disaster as some sci-fi films have portrayed.
However, it would mean cities such as New York would need sea
walls much like Holland./


​
If so that wouldn't be the end of the world, the
​ ​
sea
​ ​
wall will be built and we'll have a century to do it,
​ ​
or we'll build a new city further inland, after all even without sea 
level rise New York rebuilds itself every decade or two. But doing 
what environmentalist say should be done


I don't think you speak for any environmentalists.


would
​ ​
indeed
​ ​
be the end of
​ ​
the
​world​
 for most of the 7.6 billion people who expect to to fed every day:
​ ​
Immediately
​ ​
stop using
​ ​
all
​ ​
fossil fuels.
​ ​
Don't use chemical fertilizers or pesticides or herbicides.
​ ​
Don't use genetic
​ ​
engineering to increase crop yield.
​ ​
D
​​
on't build solar cell installation if they need a lot of land, not even
​ ​
in the desert
​ ​
because it
​ ​
might
​ ​
interfere with
​ ​
the
​ ​
lifestyle of snakes and bugs.
​ ​
Don't build wind farms because they are ugly and stop natural wind 
currents and kill little birdies. Don't build geothermal installations 
because they

​cause​
 earthquakes. And above all don't even think about using any form on 
nuclear energy, not ever!


The environmentalists are right, if we follow their advice we won't 
have to build sea walls a century from now because long before then we 
would have frozen to death in the dark. Environmentalists never 
consider the costs their solution

​s​
would entail, and I'm not talking about monetary costs I'm talking 
about human costs.


Which you have casually exaggerated based on the imagined policies of 
strawman environmentalists.


Brent

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Re: Satellites show sea level rise is accelerating

2018-02-15 Thread agrayson2000 


On Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 12:24:31 PM UTC-7, John Clark wrote:
>
> On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:59 AM, Lawrence Crowell <
> goldenfield...@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> *​> ​It is not the same disaster as some sci-fi films have portrayed. 
>> However, it would mean cities such as New York would need sea walls much 
>> like Holland.*
>>
>
> ​
> If so that wouldn't be the end of the world, the
> ​ ​
> sea
> ​ ​
> wall will be built and we'll have a century to do it,
> ​ ​
> or we'll build a new city further inland, after all even without sea level 
> rise New York rebuilds itself every decade or two. But doing what 
> environmentalist say should be done would
> ​ ​
> indeed
> ​ ​
> be the end of
> ​ ​
> the 
> ​world​
>  for most of the 7.6 billion people who expect to to fed every day:
> ​ ​
> Immediately
> ​ ​
> stop using
> ​ ​
> all
> ​ ​
> fossil fuels.
> ​ ​
> Don't use chemical fertilizers or pesticides or herbicides.
> ​ ​
> Don't use genetic
> ​ ​
> engineering to increase crop yield.
> ​ ​
> D
> ​​
> on't build solar cell installation if they need a lot of land, not even
> ​ ​
> in the desert
> ​ ​
> because it
> ​ ​
> might
> ​ ​
> interfere with
> ​ ​
> the
> ​ ​
> lifestyle of snakes and bugs.
> ​ ​
> Don't build wind farms because they are ugly and stop natural wind 
> currents and kill little birdies. Don't build geothermal installations 
> because they 
> ​cause​
>  earthquakes. And above all don't even think about using any form on 
> nuclear energy, not ever!
>

*Cherry picking and no imagination. AG *

>
> The environmentalists are right, if we follow their advice we won't have 
> to build sea walls a century from now because long before then we would 
> have frozen to death in the dark. Environmentalists never consider the 
> costs their solution
> ​s​
> would entail, and I'm not talking about monetary costs I'm talking about 
> human costs.  
>
>  ​John K Clark ​
>
>   
>  
>
>

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Re: Satellites show sea level rise is accelerating

2018-02-15 Thread John Clark 
On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:59 AM, Lawrence Crowell <
goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote:

*​> ​It is not the same disaster as some sci-fi films have portrayed.
> However, it would mean cities such as New York would need sea walls much
> like Holland.*
>

​
If so that wouldn't be the end of the world, the
​ ​
sea
​ ​
wall will be built and we'll have a century to do it,
​ ​
or we'll build a new city further inland, after all even without sea level
rise New York rebuilds itself every decade or two. But doing what
environmentalist say should be done would
​ ​
indeed
​ ​
be the end of
​ ​
the
​world​
 for most of the 7.6 billion people who expect to to fed every day:
​ ​
Immediately
​ ​
stop using
​ ​
all
​ ​
fossil fuels.
​ ​
Don't use chemical fertilizers or pesticides or herbicides.
​ ​
Don't use genetic
​ ​
engineering to increase crop yield.
​ ​
D
​​
on't build solar cell installation if they need a lot of land, not even
​ ​
in the desert
​ ​
because it
​ ​
might
​ ​
interfere with
​ ​
the
​ ​
lifestyle of snakes and bugs.
​ ​
Don't build wind farms because they are ugly and stop natural wind currents
and kill little birdies. Don't build geothermal installations because they
​cause​
 earthquakes. And above all don't even think about using any form on
nuclear energy, not ever!

The environmentalists are right, if we follow their advice we won't have to
build sea walls a century from now because long before then we would have
frozen to death in the dark. Environmentalists never consider the costs
their solution
​s​
would entail, and I'm not talking about monetary costs I'm talking about
human costs.

 ​John K Clark ​

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Re: Satellites show sea level rise is accelerating

2018-02-14 Thread agrayson2000 


On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 8:59:05 AM UTC-7, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 3:54:32 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:36 AM, <agrays...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ​> ​
>>>
>>> https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/12/satellites-show-sea-level-rise-is-accelerating/
>>>  
>>> <https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/12/satellites-show-sea-level-rise-is-accelerating/>
>>>
>>> Compare with John Clark's claim of rise of one inch per decade. AG
>>>
>>
>> OK
>> ​ 
>> lets compare, it says what we now for sure is that has been "3 inches of 
>> sea level rise in the past quarter century". They made a guess that it 
>> would accelerate so sea level would be "2 feet higher by the end of the 
>> century", well maybe so, but that would still make for a pretty dull 
>> disaster movie. Sure 
>> ​it​
>>  might cause difficulties but on a list of world problems it wouldn't 
>> even make the top ten
>> ​.​
>> I mean its not as if this sort of thing was unprecedented, the sea has 
>> risen 400 *FEET* since the peak of the last ice age 20,000 years ago
>> ​ 
>> and during that time the human race not only survived it thrived.  
>>
>>   ​John K Clark​
>>
>
> It is not the same disaster as some sci-fi films have portrayed. However, 
> it would mean cities such as New York would need sea walls much like 
> Holland. Many major cities on the coast, with the exception of Los Angeles, 
> would require extensive sea walls much as seen with Holland. Remember that 
> while a few feet does not sound like much, given that coasts have small 
> slopes, say only a few degrees, a few feet of sea level rise can mean 
> hundreds or thousands of feet the ocean encroaches. Pleistocene humans did 
> not have sea ports.
>
> LC
>

*RIght, no sea ports in the Pleistocene era. Of course I knew that and my 
question to Clark was entirely rhetorical. Why didn't he know the obvious? 
And there are other, possibly dire effects of the **Greenland ice sheet 
melting, such as change in the thermohaline current, that is shift of the 
Gulf Stream making Britain and Northern Europe effectively an arctic zone. 
Ho-hum, nothing to worry about as Florida goes below sea level. AG*

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Re: Satellites show sea level rise is accelerating

2018-02-14 Thread Lawrence Crowell 
On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 3:54:32 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote:
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:36 AM, <agrays...@gmail.com > 
> wrote:
>
> ​> ​
>>
>> https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/12/satellites-show-sea-level-rise-is-accelerating/
>>  
>> <https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/12/satellites-show-sea-level-rise-is-accelerating/>
>>
>> Compare with John Clark's claim of rise of one inch per decade. AG
>>
>
> OK
> ​ 
> lets compare, it says what we now for sure is that has been "3 inches of 
> sea level rise in the past quarter century". They made a guess that it 
> would accelerate so sea level would be "2 feet higher by the end of the 
> century", well maybe so, but that would still make for a pretty dull 
> disaster movie. Sure 
> ​it​
>  might cause difficulties but on a list of world problems it wouldn't even 
> make the top ten
> ​.​
> I mean its not as if this sort of thing was unprecedented, the sea has 
> risen 400 *FEET* since the peak of the last ice age 20,000 years ago
> ​ 
> and during that time the human race not only survived it thrived.  
>
>   ​John K Clark​
>

It is not the same disaster as some sci-fi films have portrayed. However, 
it would mean cities such as New York would need sea walls much like 
Holland. Many major cities on the coast, with the exception of Los Angeles, 
would require extensive sea walls much as seen with Holland. Remember that 
while a few feet does not sound like much, given that coasts have small 
slopes, say only a few degrees, a few feet of sea level rise can mean 
hundreds or thousands of feet the ocean encroaches. Pleistocene humans did 
not have sea ports.

LC

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Re: Satellites show sea level rise is accelerating

2018-02-13 Thread agrayson2000 


On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 2:54:32 PM UTC-7, John Clark wrote:
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:36 AM, <agrays...@gmail.com > 
> wrote:
>
> ​> ​
>>
>> https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/12/satellites-show-sea-level-rise-is-accelerating/
>>  
>> <https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/12/satellites-show-sea-level-rise-is-accelerating/>
>>
>> Compare with John Clark's claim of rise of one inch per decade. AG
>>
>
> OK
> ​ 
> lets compare, it says what we now for sure is that has been "3 inches of 
> sea level rise in the past quarter century". They made a guess that it 
> would accelerate so sea level would be "2 feet higher by the end of the 
> century", well maybe so, but that would still make for a pretty dull 
> disaster movie. Sure 
> ​it​
>  might cause difficulties but on a list of world problems it wouldn't 
> even make the top ten
> ​.​
>

What are the top ten, excluding global nuclear war? AG
 

> I mean its not as if this sort of thing was unprecedented, the sa has 
> risen 400 *FEET* since the peak of the last ice age 20,000 years ago
> ​ 
> and during that time the human race not only survived it thrived.  
>
>   ​John K Clark​
>

Probably by 10,000 BC the ocean had achieved its present level, that is, 
after the ice had receded. How many coastal cities were flooded from 20,000 
BC to 10,000 BC? Can you name one? AG 

>
>

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Re: Satellites show sea level rise is accelerating

2018-02-13 Thread 'cdemorse...@yahoo.com' via Everything List 


   On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:36 AM, <agrayson2...@gmail.com> wrote:


​> ​https://www.mercurynews.com/ 2018/02/12/satellites-show- sea-level-rise-is- 
accelerating/

Compare with John Clark's claim of rise of one inch per decade. AG

OK​ lets compare, it says what we now for sure is that has been "3 inches of 
sea level rise in the past quarter century". They made a guess that it would 
accelerate so sea level would be "2 feet higher by the end of the century", 
well maybe so, but that would still make for a pretty dull disaster movie. Sure 
​it​ might cause difficulties but on a list of world problems it wouldn't even 
make the top ten​.​ I mean its not as if this sort of thing was unprecedented, 
the sea has risen 400 FEET since the peak of the last ice age 20,000 years ago​ 
and during that time the human race not only survived it thrived.  
      Ever wonder what a two foot rise in sea level would do to south Florida 
real estate values?
Would they go up... or go down. My guess is down, catastrophic flood damage 
tends to have that effect. What kind of dollar figure are we talking about. 
That would be astronomical! The value of just the Florida coastal real estate 
that would be impacted is off the charts.
But hey... don't worry, be happy.
-Chris

  ​John K Clark​
 
 


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Re: Satellites show sea level rise is accelerating

2018-02-13 Thread John Clark 
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:36 AM, <agrayson2...@gmail.com> wrote:

​> ​
> https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/12/satellites-show-sea-level-rise-is-
> accelerating/
> <https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/12/satellites-show-sea-level-rise-is-accelerating/>
>
> Compare with John Clark's claim of rise of one inch per decade. AG
>

OK
​
lets compare, it says what we now for sure is that has been "3 inches of
sea level rise in the past quarter century". They made a guess that it
would accelerate so sea level would be "2 feet higher by the end of the
century", well maybe so, but that would still make for a pretty dull
disaster movie. Sure
​it​
 might cause difficulties but on a list of world problems it wouldn't even
make the top ten
​.​
I mean its not as if this sort of thing was unprecedented, the sea has
risen 400 *FEET* since the peak of the last ice age 20,000 years ago
​
and during that time the human race not only survived it thrived.

  ​John K Clark​

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Re: Satellites show sea level rise is accelerating

2018-02-13 Thread Samiya Illias 
According to The Quran, the seas are expected to get warmer. Please see: When
the Seas Boil
<http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2014/10/when-seas-boil.html>

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:36 AM, <agrayson2...@gmail.com> wrote:

> https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/12/satellites-show-sea-level-rise-is-
> accelerating/
>
> Compare with John Clark's claim of rise of one inch per decade. AG
>
> --
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>

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Satellites show sea level rise is accelerating

2018-02-13 Thread agrayson2000 
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/12/satellites-show-sea-level-rise-is-accelerating/

Compare with John Clark's claim of rise of one inch per decade. AG

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