The fun thing about such folk is that they've missed the point that TM's
effects continue to accumulate, even 50+ years into the practice, so dabbling
in it for a few years or decades means that they've missed out on the
accumulated effects.
Of course, one could claim that they have stopped
You're assuming that you know enough about what goes on in and around teh
pandit compound to be able to comment.
By all the accounts I have read, the internal activity of the pandit compound
is very much internal and, at best, the Westerners involved are simply getting
second-hand rumors
Dear Egg, so you believe there is a strict exclusivity in your transcendence.
To just practicing the TM technique. That people would not be able to be in
transcending after learning TM if they did not practice TM strictly as in
coming back to the mantra as instructed in basic TM when noticing
According to wikipedia,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country#Countries
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country#Countries the
pandits are getting paid about 4-6x the minimum wage for someone living in
India: $689/year.
I figure that because
Hmmm...
So 20-40 year-olds are still indentured children in India, unable to break
free of the harsh debts incurred by their parents?
OK.
I can'te ven read my own replies half the time, just the apparently randomly
quoted text.
$200/30 = $6.66 per day.
They also get room and board.
Assuming that a minimum wage person spends about 50% of his income on room and
board, that $200 + room and board is about 3-6x the minimum wage for someone
living in India.
They're not business workers living in the USA. They
Current TM initiations are higher than they have been since the Merv Griffith
days. The pprice of TM instruction has been lowered 36% for adults, and down to
$360 for ages 10-18, and full-time college students, at least through May 31,
2014.
http://www.tm.org/fee http://www.tm.org/fee
Depending on which button or option I used to reply, there may or may not be a
show history button, or there may be an inline list of all text without a
button, or there may be no text at all.
John Haglein is now Raja John Hagelin, in charge of the TMO for North
America.
I was arguing with someone in reddit.com about TM finances and looked at the
IRS form 990 records for various TM-related organizations.
John is paid $37,000 as President of the DLF. He gets another $36,000 for
A few nits with that eview:
1) it only examined clinical populations, so the effect of meditation on
stress levels on normal people was not evaluated
2) it only looked at psychological test results, with one exception: weight
loss, which no meditation practice affected in clinical
Well, in order to be able to reliably notice more subtle aspects of perceptual,
emotional and thinking reality, you need to have some level of quietude in the
background.
Otherwise, how can you tell if what you are perceiving is subtle, or just
noise?
L
I said what I said.
The reviewers chose to only look at clinical populations and counted a study
that found significant effects on physical aspects of stress to be a no
effect study because the experimental group was already low anxiety and tested
low again after the subjects had been
Who says he was worth billions? A newspaper?
Since the TM organization (Maharishi Foundation USA) is a 501(c)(3)
organization, they have to file an IRS 990 form every year:
https://bulk.resource.org/irs.gov/eo/2014_01_EO/04-3196447_990_201212.pdf
https://bulk.resource.org/irs.gov/eo/2014_01_EO/04-3196447_990_201212.pdf
Summary:
Net revenue for 2012 was $805,586 not $205, 586
Thanks. probably more typos there, even though I double-checked. The 990 form
is an image of a pdf file, not selectable text.
For which you are very happy, am I correct?
There's a huge concerted effort (by the massive 26 members) to attempt to
sabatoge any and all QUiet Time Schools in San Francisco. Mjackson is
apparently a member.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/SF-Parents-Against-TM-in-Public-Schools/201123776750702
You have some more work to do, Michael, to achieve your most-laudible goal.
All the kids, parents and faculty who thought that they had gained something
of value from TM but were deceived will all wake up soon and thank you, as well.
The significance of a pujah is whatever the hell the person doing the pujah
says it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4b3hfoUUNQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4b3hfoUUNQ
Well, at least in Latin America, Quiet Time students often get to learn the
TM-Sidhis [apparently] for free, so its not too far off to say that teaching
low-income students TM is a gateway drug for the TM-Sidhis. Since they are
already in meditating in groups, such QT TM-Sidhas are already in
I'll say again, and make it more explicit (obviously you didn't bother watching
teh video):
it doesn't matter what the words say. All that matters is the reason given for
performing the stupid thing.
Maharishi gave a reason. TM teachers agreed to accept that reason.
End of story.
Maharishi acknowledged that his Seven states of consciousenss was merely a
convenient fiction.
On the there hand, there are plenty of Buddhists out there who believe in teh
jhanas as literal things that must be seen as exact steps with specific
techniques to attain each one, in order, and
Are we talking about the same reason [given] here?
As I understand it (paraphrasing), there are several issues addressed by the
TM teacher performing the TM pujja at the start of teachign TM, including:
1) it gives Maharishi a spiritual loophole where teh TM teacher dedicates teh
entire
Are you surprised that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who spent 13 years in a Hindu
monastary with a priminent Hindu spiritual leader, and who founded a spiritual
organization dedicated to the memory of his teacher, and dedicated to spreading
his teacher's interpretation of Hindu spirituality to the
How can you possibly say that?
The TM puja means what maharishi says it means. He said it was to be used to
keep the purity of the teaching so therefore, it is meant to keep the purity of
teh teaching.
Herbert Benson called The Relaxation Response prayer early in his career, and
expressed concerns that publishing positive research on its effects would get
him ostracized.
And yet, TM isn't really prayer in any normally accepted sense of the word I'm
familiar with.
Can you pray, not only
My interpretation of what he said is that the Ramayana can be seen as (among
other things) an extended metaphor for how the human nervous system operates,
with one-to-one correspondence between various literary/plot elements in the
book, and actual aspects of our physical nervous system and how
Mantra of personal god is an interesting phrase.
personal god is one way of translating the Yoga Sutra term, ishtadeva,
which can also be translated as preferred shining one, which goes back to
Maharishi's point about a mantra being an attractive object of attention (which
is also taken
fMRI is not used by the TMO for several reasons:
1) the equipment is darned expensive (a single state-of-the-art fMRI machine
would cost almost as much as MIU cost when it was bought, and the overhead for
running/maintaining it would be a substantial fraction of the entire MUM
operating
Speaking as a Unitarian-Universalist, the broadest interpretation of Hinduism
and Uni-Unism becomes pretty much identical. Unless you specifically believe
that a specific interpretation of a specific book/writing/tradition is valid,
and no other, or that the non-believer equivalent, hardcore
I would say that devas are labels given to fundamental behaviors and
connections that enlightened sages perceived as existing within themselves and
perceived as external to themselves as well.
Of course, most neuroscientists are pretty confident that the only way we can
interpret reality is
My favorite variations are the fight scene with Jackie Chan where he has run
nude from a Turkish bathhouse and gets into a fight with a bunch of guys in a
Turkish street occupied by a large number spice merchants. After he lost his
towel during the fight, the only way he had to maintain his
Actually, now I think on it, everyone had two balloons and it was a guy (or
two) offstage that were reaching out and popping the balloons as teh dancers
spun.
I guess I'm a young'n. I'm not yet 59.
L
except that different reply buttons give different options.
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :
I guess I'm a young'n. I'm not yet 59.
So young, and ostensibly a software engineer, and enhanced
https://www.hoopladigital.com/home
https://www.hoopladigital.com/home;jsessionid=8E9C0DE638D9C9C95B9931C8DC9A6DF0
first I've heard of it.
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :
Already did. They don't have it and didn't seem to know what it is.
On
I can only recall the words of my friend, Anoop Chandola, spoken by the
characters in his book In the Himalayan Nights (paraphrasing since the exact
quote isn't available):
it would have been better if Maharishi-ji had been made Shankaracharya rather
than those two court-loving idiots.
:
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :
I guess I'm a young'n. I'm not yet 59.
So young, and ostensibly a software engineer, and enhanced by decades of TM
improving your creative intelligence, and yet completely unable to figure out
how to find and click the Show message history link
@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :
I guess I'm a young'n. I'm not yet 59.
So young, and ostensibly a software engineer, and enhanced by decades of TM
improving your creative intelligence, and yet completely unable to figure out
how to find and click the Show message history link at the bottom
This leads all too easily to the idea that while someone is awake they must
always be conscious of something or other. And that leads along the slippery
path to the idea that if we knew what to look for we could peer inside
someone's brain and find out which processes were the conscious ones
As I said, she doesn't see any value in the TM Pure Consciousness research so
she doesn't take it into account and consider the implications of a state of
alertness in the brain without any content to be alert about.
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :
Who has
She's very Buddhist in her outlook. She's even developed intellectual
affirmations to reinforce teh Buddhist slant to her scientific perspective and
acknowledges quite frankly that it is the only slant worth having, all others
being illusion.
Since mindfulness and focused attention
Maybe teh fact is that I didn't see it at the bottom of some of the replies I
made, and never understood its use.
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :
Taking bets. I say we're not going to see Lawson hitting the Show History
Link anytime soon.
Not sure
Judy, just to be clear
Up until today, when I clicked reply at the top, I got a different text box
than if I clicked reply at teh bottom.
One had a show message history option and one did not.
I didn't realize that you needed to click on the show message history to
include the
Well, teh buddhist idea is that when you peer deeply into your own mind,
you'll see that sense of self is an illusion, and in fact, they are correct:
if you practice mindfulness and concentrative practices long enough, the
disconnect between self-centers and the rest of teh brain that
That should read:
...should become a trait outside of such practices...
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :
if you practice mindfulness and concentrative practices long enough, the
disconnect between self-centers and the rest of teh brain that occurs during
.
I'll post the responses to the Describe your self interview that Fred gave
teh enlightened TMers in another thread.
L.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :
Well, teh buddhist idea is that when you peer deeply into your own mind,
you'll see that sense of self
Recently, Fred Travis published a paper in The Annals of the New York Academy
of Sciences' special edition on meditation research:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10./nyas.12316/full
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10./nyas.12316/full
Transcendental experiences during
But see my comments. She doesn't take PC research seriously. I've seen her
mentino it in passing, but she doesn't even attempt to incorporate it into her
world view.
She's much like James Austin, who misreads/misquotes the PC research and then
fits the misread/misquote into his theories on
@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :
But see my comments. She doesn't take PC research seriously. I've seen her
mention it in passing, but she doesn't even attempt to incorporate it into her
world view.
Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. Are you sure she hasn't read it
thoroughly
Well, they kind of hint at it by saying that he's big on gun control...
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote :
What's missing, in any article I can find, is that they don't mention if
Leland Yee is a *republican* or a *democrat* state senator. Based on that, I
The difference between anesthesia and pure consciousness is that the brain is
still showing many of the accepted physiological correlates of being alert.
One thing I picked up from chatting with Fred and Alaric and reading their
research on PC and CC is that there are anecdotal reports of
The current physiological model used to explain PC explains why it is
impossible to have sensory perception OR mental perception during the pure
state of PC.
It is possible that the model is wrong. It is also possible taht you are an
exception to the rule.
It is also possible that what
:
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :
The current physiological model used to explain PC explains why it is
impossible to have sensory perception OR mental perception during the pure
state of PC.
It is possible that the model is wrong. It is also possible taht you
What is effort?
If I hear a sound and sit up from sleep, did I apply mental effort to sit up
or was it a spontaneous reaction?
If I close my eyes after sitting up and my mantra spontaneously flits through
my mind and I fail to open my eyes again for 10-60 minutes, even though I'm
sure
It is true that TM doesn't hurt some people, but to say that it is good for
most is a flat out lie.
Which statistics are you going by to assert the above?
The numbers have always been jimmied by the TMO and True Believers. Most
people who are initiated stop doing TM soon after.
That
Maharishi chose to use a subset of the mantras that are available,.presumably
because his intuition said it was a sufficiently large subset to be useful.
Upcoming research on TM using advanced EEG analysis should help make it more
clear what it means to be useful.
In the meantime, the
The thing is, living in Amsterdam really DOES make it easy to get laid whenever
you want. If nothing else, the red light district is a legal, well-policed
section of town...
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote :
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd_b-LS6SzQlist=PLtEqJ26h_QtSXazexpFjLPtcTH1oSD31z
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd_b-LS6SzQlist=PLtEqJ26h_QtSXazexpFjLPtcTH1oSD31z
For those who didn't want to watch all of the presentation by Alaric, here's
the most important bit all by itself: the EEG
Only a cult apologist would say that, Rick.
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rick@... wrote :
To say that “black and white thinking is EXACTLY what the TMO engages in and
exactly how they advertise TM” is itself an expression of black and white
thinking.
From:
Get killed, have someone pour water from it down your throat, wake up with all
wounds healed.
Didn't you watch the Indiana Jones movie?
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
But how can one prove it's the real one?
And yet, after he died, not a single one of the people who remained loyal
left. All the people who were going to leave, already had left.
That may not have been his intent, but that was the effect: the inevitable
schism took place before he died, rather than after.
L
---In
Teh statistic was skewed. For one week, the homicide rate was double the
average. THAT was what was picked up by the press and extrapolated for the
entire 8 week period.
True Believers want the research to be true Skeptics are often as desperate to
be sure that it is false. The reality is
noted 80% drop for instance, that'd be more convincing. I convert for
evidence.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :
Teh statistic was skewed. For one week, the homicide rate was double the
average. THAT was what was picked up by the press and extrapolated for the
entire 8
@yahoogroups.com,
LEnglish5@...
wrote :
Who says that the
Maharishi Effect converts anyone?
Not me,
what are you talking about? Oh, I see I convert for
evidence that means that you have to prove it before I
take it seriously. I haven't seen any worth chucking out
my perfectly good world view
I don't know if Barry ever suggested that (he never mentioned it to me that I
remember) but I've been suggestiing variations on that idea for decades. The
problem has been that Fred Travis' original research along that line (his PhD
thesis actually) used 40 seconds average EEG and that's too
Reasonably accurate, but the assumption is that MMY was wrong about wealthy
people.
Wealthy people who managed to make it on their own usually DO deserve what
they have gained (criminals and advanced debt investment instrument
proponents aside). It's the children of wealth who have often
of an attachment to such
a dumbfuck idea as to want to prove it.
From: LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@...
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime
Rates
I don't know if Barry ever
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness#Zen_criticism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness#Zen_criticism
Zen criticism[edit
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mindfulnessaction=editsection=8]
Some Zen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen teachers emphasize the potential
dangers
Hmm, I wasn't there for any inner circle sales pitches to TM teachers, but I
attended an introductory lecture on the TM-Sidhis by Rick Archer and friends
about 38 years ago (do you remember that one in Tucson, Rick?) and the Yogic
Flying part was presented as a way to gain enlightenment
That's silly. The Maharishi Effect name was coined rather late. I don't know
when he started pitching the idea that a small number of meditators could have
an effect on society, but its probably years prior tot he name being given to
the concept.
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
: LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@...
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime
Rates
I don't know if Barry ever suggested that (he never mentioned it to me that
I remember) but I've been
The devvas are fundamental vibrations of consciousness. The gut has a highly
complex nervous system all its own. While its not conscious in the same way our
brains our, using Tononi's phi, it almost certainly ranks high as a conscious
system.
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
95% of all serotonin is made in the Enteric System, the nervous system of the
gut. It might well be that most of the soma, that substance or substances
created by the nervous system to support enlightenment, is also made in the
Enteric System.
L
Did any of you guys even bother to watch the video on EEG done by Alaric
Arenander that I linked to. The entirity of the 4 higher states of
consciousness was shown in the EEG, I suspect.
I could draw parallels between each major higher stage of consciousness that
MMY talked about, and the
He was a brilliant manipulator, said Mrs Pearce. I just couldn't see that
he was a dirty old man. We made love regularly. At one stage I even thought I
was pregnant by him. And I don't think I was the only girl. There was a lot of
talk that he'd tried to rape
This seems a far cry from the
A puja means whatever the person doing it says it means, so the fact that there
is a puja involved means nothing more than a Hindu started the organization.
Unless, of course, you think the puja is doing something special for the sake
of the student, in which case, its, by definnition,
Probably a good portion of the Shankaracharya Order at that time had positive
feelings towards Hitler.
The student of Gurudev's who eventually became the court-appointed
Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath, had been a Hindu freedom figher, likely with a
price on his head as a terrorist against teh
They dont' know much about human anatomy.
The Enteric System has more neurons than the spinal column, or all the nerve
cells of teh peripheral nervous system. 500 million of 'em. The gut eats 95%
of all the serotonin produced by the human body.
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
The rape rumors were pooh-poohed by Mia Farrow herself in her book.
Linda Pierce was not underage.
Which rape are we talking about?
L
that yogic flying leads to peace in teh world has been standard yogic mystical
rhetoric for centuries.
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :
From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@...
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 7:18 PM
Subject: Re:
Share, the money to teach TM to disadvantaged people comes from donations.
Aside from a few pilot projects on TM and PTSD, almost all TM research dollars
these days are coming from the NIH and other grants-giving governmental bodies.
Any large donations are for pandits or Invincible America
PRudence Farrow is teaching TM in Florida I believe. She's teh longest
continuously active TM teacher in teh USA with 4.5 decades of teaching under
her belt.
She currently lives in Seagrove, Florida
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwojlNyHNGU
--In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote :
There is a lot of research on TM, but the quality of most of that research is
not particularly good, which is one of the reasons it is not taken seriously.
IN 2013, teh American Heart Asosication published a paper on alternate forms
Serotonin IS produced by teh human digestive system and IS consumed by that
same system.
It's been known for a very long time. Maharishi may have read something about
it in school, even.
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :
contact her and ask her if you want to
I would say that tehre's a lot LESS to it than that.
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :
Well, Barry, actually there is more to it than that. It's been a long time for
you, and as we all know, you have a lousy memory that is getting worse the
older you become.
The technique of TM is think a mantra but don't try.
There, now you can be sure that no-one will ever pay a cent to teh TM
organization again, because learning from a one-line webpage text is the same
as learning from a teacher trained to make a carefully choreographed
presentation.
L
What he doesn't mention about this idea of a Type IV Multiverse where any
mathematical construct can be teh basis for a universe, is that this really
means that any *story* about a world defines a real universe where that story
exists. No matter what kind of story it is, whether about elves and
They'd mostly sell based on the fact that he's a former President, but yeah,
far, FAR better than I can do (damning with seriously faint praise).
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :
I hate to admit it, but they're not bad, IMHO. He has a good eye, if not a
OBviously you didn't look at the video link I gave of Alaric Arenander's talk
on EEG and TM.
The last minute or so is a before/after of a guy who had been practicing TM
and teh TM-SIdhis for several years on the Invincible America Course.
Regardless of how trivial the techniques seem,
I was merely pointing out that MMY's description of soma being consumed in the
gut as part of the enlightenment process may not be invalid. WHAT is consuming
the soma is another matter.
Of course, a collection of 100 million nerve cells running along the 9 meter
long GI tract is a bizarre
, turquoiseb@... wrote :
You realize, do you not, that you just spent an entire post shooting the
messengers to protect the image of a dead man, right? And you wonder why
people consider you a cult apologist.
From: LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@...
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent
teacher, after all.
Continually attacking her sister's teacher would be a bad way to keep peace in
the family.
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :
1 Comment below
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :
He was a brilliant
.
On Sat, 4/5/14, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@...
mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, April 5, 2014, 7:00 AM
Well, my point was that the practice itself, like TM, is incredibly simple.
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :
Perhaps you're so highly evolved you didn't need it, Lawson, but my Center
Invincibility Course took six weekends, plus the two-week flying block at
The book is about the Beatles. Does it quote Mia Farrow or does it quote
someone quoting someone quoting Mia Farrow?
Mia Farrow's own book should be taken as a better source of what happened to
Mia Farrow than a book about the Beatles unless the guy is referring to direct
interviews with Mia
, LEnglish5@... wrote :
I havent been able to find an account by Mia Farrow where she says that MMY
attempted to get her to lie down, just that he started to give her a hug. At
least, that is what her autobiography says. She may have watered down her story
from the time of the incident. Her sister
the power of selective editing at work. The TMO
never mentions HL's devotion to Krishna and the Isckon book doesn't mention
TM. LOL, these cults and their obsession with one-upmanship.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :
I havent been able to find an account by Mia
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