[FairfieldLife] Re: Derren Brown: awesome display
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Orson Welles discusses the nature of 'cold reading', a type of analysis used by many phony psychics and fortune tellers to trick their customers into thinking they indeed do have special powers, and how some can become so skilled at it that they actually trick themselves into believing they are truly psychic. http://youtu.be/IjPsnfysrp8 http://youtu.be/IjPsnfysrp8 http://youtu.be/IjPsnfysrp8 http://youtu.be/IjPsnfysrp8 http://youtu.be/IjPsnfysrp8 http://youtu.be/IjPsnfysrp8 Excellent. His point at the end about becoming a shut-eye is exactly the point I was making earlier. If one is born with a talent for the tricks of the trade such as cold reading, an eye for facial expression and body language, and an ability to prompt people in a certain direction via verbal and eye-movement cues, in time one can actually start to believe the I'm psychic stuff. That's when it gets dangerous. How do you tell a fake psychic from a real one? Easy. If they're making money from their abilities, they're fake. :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Re Derren definitely possesses unusual abilities: Yes, but not *psychic* abilities. He uses NLP trickery (eye-movement cues); lip-reading expertise; amazing memory recall; covert hypnosis; muscle reading; old-fashioned conjuring ; . . . ; but nothing that can't be understood by a hard-nosed scientist. So do the psychics. That's his point. Funny how some miss it. For the record, my point is that it strikes me as much more likely that psychics are using the skills above to do what they do subconsciously than that they are able to do what they do because some supernatural entity is helping them to, also subconsciously. The psychics using these techniques don't have to know that they're doing it, or have been trained in how to use them. Any competitive poker player uses all of these techniques in every game, but they aren't necessarily *aware* that they're using them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Derren Brown: awesome display
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: I sometimes see this as it is after another show I watch when I can. I would give it a grade of B (using my subjective scale for network TV here in the States). B sounds about right. It wasn't great, but it was often well done and thought-provoking, especially the episodes that centered not on *whether* someone was lying, but *why*. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@ wrote: Speaking of such things, did you ever get a US TV series called Lie To Me there in the UK? ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Re Derren definitely possesses unusual abilities: Yes, but not *psychic* abilities. He uses NLP trickery (eye-movement cues); lip-reading expertise; amazing memory recall; covert hypnosis; muscle reading; old-fashioned conjuring ; . . . ; but nothing that can't be understood by a hard-nosed scientist. So do the psychics. That's his point. Funny how some miss it. Speaking of such things, did you ever get a US TV series called Lie To Me there in the UK? It's definitely worth a watch, if you did and it comes up on reruns. Tim Roth (always great) plays a character based on the real work of Dr. Paul Ekman and the Ekman Group on facial recognition and body language. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@ wrote: I watched the whole thing and found it utterly fascinating. The interesting thing is, Derren definitely possesses unusual abilities and he knows this so the 'joke' is on us, the viewers, who are supposedly 'in the know' about what he is doing to the 'unsuspecting' 5 experts. The whole concept and execution was very watchable and I would like to see more from this guy. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@ wrote: On the thread Judy referenced there's a cynical message by one curtisdeltablues It makes more sense that his NLP skills are instantly effective and magical on strangers. Yeah that makes much more sense. How could anyone actually give money to another person for the purposes of making it look like they had done something magical?: The clip he's talking about - where Derren gets strangers to hand over their wallets and keys - is a common criminal scam. It relies on a pattern interrupt, as they say in NLP jargon, and body mirror imaging and is clearly effective. (Apologies if link is blocked for US viewers.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@ wrote: Re As a confirmed skeptic, would he even recognize it if he were getting genuine little nudges from the Beyond?: Yes, that's an intriguing suggestion. However, having taken a look at the previous thread you referenced, I'm sure you've all got it wrong. Yes, he does use NLP ideas in some tricks but this is essentially a (covert) hypnosis session. At the point where he asks them if they now believe in God - and they all say Yes - he could have got them to go down on all fours and bark like a dog - the typical stage hypnosis entertainment. He carries it off with panache though. Re In any case, I do still think (as I said in the earlier discussion) that he's crpy.: That's his act! He plays up to the Svengali archetype. That's the fun of his show (and I've seen him live). The segment where he copied by remote-viewing what a psychic was drawing was probably pulled off by him suggesting subliminally key images as he talks to her. (What we see is edited, of course.) The segment where he knows what the woman had dreamed of over the previous nights was another knock-out. Pure effect as Derren Brown calls it. Still trying to figure that one out. He's a divisive figure in the UK. Some people (rationalists) really loathe him as he's such a consummate professional he inevitably makes viewers think, Hey, maybe there's something genuinely psychic going on. Most people, like me, recognise him as an outstanding magician and just enjoy being baffled. Some of his stunts it has literally taken me years of head-scratching to work out how he did them. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@ wrote: Yes, thank you. I've actually seen this segment before--someone posted it here a few years ago and we had a bit of discussion about it (the thread begins with #161279 if you want to have a look). Seeing it again, I find I've changed my mind somewhat about what's going on. I think he may, in fact, have a gift, but he doesn't know it; and it
[FairfieldLife] RE: Derren Brown: awesome display
NBD, but never occurred to me Derren could be gay, as he is... ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: I sometimes see this as it is after another show I watch when I can. I would give it a grade of B (using my subjective scale for network TV here in the States). B sounds about right. It wasn't great, but it was often well done and thought-provoking, especially the episodes that centered not on *whether* someone was lying, but *why*. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@ wrote: Speaking of such things, did you ever get a US TV series called Lie To Me there in the UK? ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Re Derren definitely possesses unusual abilities: Yes, but not *psychic* abilities. He uses NLP trickery (eye-movement cues); lip-reading expertise; amazing memory recall; covert hypnosis; muscle reading; old-fashioned conjuring ; . . . ; but nothing that can't be understood by a hard-nosed scientist. So do the psychics. That's his point. Funny how some miss it. Speaking of such things, did you ever get a US TV series called Lie To Me there in the UK? It's definitely worth a watch, if you did and it comes up on reruns. Tim Roth (always great) plays a character based on the real work of Dr. Paul Ekman and the Ekman Group on facial recognition and body language. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@ wrote: I watched the whole thing and found it utterly fascinating. The interesting thing is, Derren definitely possesses unusual abilities and he knows this so the 'joke' is on us, the viewers, who are supposedly 'in the know' about what he is doing to the 'unsuspecting' 5 experts. The whole concept and execution was very watchable and I would like to see more from this guy. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@ wrote: On the thread Judy referenced there's a cynical message by one curtisdeltablues It makes more sense that his NLP skills are instantly effective and magical on strangers. Yeah that makes much more sense. How could anyone actually give money to another person for the purposes of making it look like they had done something magical?: The clip he's talking about - where Derren gets strangers to hand over their wallets and keys - is a common criminal scam. It relies on a pattern interrupt, as they say in NLP jargon, and body mirror imaging and is clearly effective. (Apologies if link is blocked for US viewers.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@ wrote: Re As a confirmed skeptic, would he even recognize it if he were getting genuine little nudges from the Beyond?: Yes, that's an intriguing suggestion. However, having taken a look at the previous thread you referenced, I'm sure you've all got it wrong. Yes, he does use NLP ideas in some tricks but this is essentially a (covert) hypnosis session. At the point where he asks them if they now believe in God - and they all say Yes - he could have got them to go down on all fours and bark like a dog - the typical stage hypnosis entertainment. He carries it off with panache though. Re In any case, I do still think (as I said in the earlier discussion) that he's crpy.: That's his act! He plays up to the Svengali archetype. That's the fun of his show (and I've seen him live). The segment where he copied by remote-viewing what a psychic was drawing was probably pulled off by him suggesting subliminally key images as he talks to her. (What we see is edited, of course.) The segment where he knows what the woman had dreamed of over the previous nights was another knock-out. Pure effect as Derren Brown calls it. Still trying to figure that one out. He's a divisive figure in the UK. Some people (rationalists) really loathe him as he's such a consummate
[FairfieldLife] RE: Derren Brown: awesome display
FWIW, Derren Brown portraits: https://www.google.fi/search?q=derren+brown+portraitstbm=ischtbo=usource=univsa=Xei=XJOMUuFchMTiBM3KgLgEved=0CCwQsAQbiw=1280bih=630 https://www.google.fi/search?q=derren+brown+portraitstbm=ischtbo=usource=univsa=Xei=XJOMUuFchMTiBM3KgLgEved=0CCwQsAQbiw=1280bih=630 ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister@... wrote: NBD, but never occurred to me Derren could be gay, as he is... ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: I sometimes see this as it is after another show I watch when I can. I would give it a grade of B (using my subjective scale for network TV here in the States). B sounds about right. It wasn't great, but it was often well done and thought-provoking, especially the episodes that centered not on *whether* someone was lying, but *why*. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@ wrote: Speaking of such things, did you ever get a US TV series called Lie To Me there in the UK? ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Re Derren definitely possesses unusual abilities: Yes, but not *psychic* abilities. He uses NLP trickery (eye-movement cues); lip-reading expertise; amazing memory recall; covert hypnosis; muscle reading; old-fashioned conjuring ; . . . ; but nothing that can't be understood by a hard-nosed scientist. So do the psychics. That's his point. Funny how some miss it. Speaking of such things, did you ever get a US TV series called Lie To Me there in the UK? It's definitely worth a watch, if you did and it comes up on reruns. Tim Roth (always great) plays a character based on the real work of Dr. Paul Ekman and the Ekman Group on facial recognition and body language. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@ wrote: I watched the whole thing and found it utterly fascinating. The interesting thing is, Derren definitely possesses unusual abilities and he knows this so the 'joke' is on us, the viewers, who are supposedly 'in the know' about what he is doing to the 'unsuspecting' 5 experts. The whole concept and execution was very watchable and I would like to see more from this guy. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@ wrote: On the thread Judy referenced there's a cynical message by one curtisdeltablues It makes more sense that his NLP skills are instantly effective and magical on strangers. Yeah that makes much more sense. How could anyone actually give money to another person for the purposes of making it look like they had done something magical?: The clip he's talking about - where Derren gets strangers to hand over their wallets and keys - is a common criminal scam. It relies on a pattern interrupt, as they say in NLP jargon, and body mirror imaging and is clearly effective. (Apologies if link is blocked for US viewers.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@ wrote: Re As a confirmed skeptic, would he even recognize it if he were getting genuine little nudges from the Beyond?: Yes, that's an intriguing suggestion. However, having taken a look at the previous thread you referenced, I'm sure you've all got it wrong. Yes, he does use NLP ideas in some tricks but this is essentially a (covert) hypnosis session. At the point where he asks them if they now believe in God - and they all say Yes - he could have got them to go down on all fours and bark like a dog - the typical stage hypnosis entertainment. He carries it off with panache though. Re In any case, I do still think (as I said in the earlier discussion) that he's crpy.: That's his act! He plays up to the Svengali archetype. That's the fun of his show (and I've seen him live). The segment where he copied by remote-viewing what a psychic was drawing was probably pulled off by him suggesting subliminally
[FairfieldLife] RE: Derren Brown: awesome display
I watched the whole thing and found it utterly fascinating. The interesting thing is, Derren definitely possesses unusual abilities and he knows this so the 'joke' is on us, the viewers, who are supposedly 'in the know' about what he is doing to the 'unsuspecting' 5 experts. The whole concept and execution was very watchable and I would like to see more from this guy. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: On the thread Judy referenced there's a cynical message by one curtisdeltablues It makes more sense that his NLP skills are instantly effective and magical on strangers. Yeah that makes much more sense. How could anyone actually give money to another person for the purposes of making it look like they had done something magical?: The clip he's talking about - where Derren gets strangers to hand over their wallets and keys - is a common criminal scam. It relies on a pattern interrupt, as they say in NLP jargon, and body mirror imaging and is clearly effective. (Apologies if link is blocked for US viewers.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Re As a confirmed skeptic, would he even recognize it if he were getting genuine little nudges from the Beyond?: Yes, that's an intriguing suggestion. However, having taken a look at the previous thread you referenced, I'm sure you've all got it wrong. Yes, he does use NLP ideas in some tricks but this is essentially a (covert) hypnosis session. At the point where he asks them if they now believe in God - and they all say Yes - he could have got them to go down on all fours and bark like a dog - the typical stage hypnosis entertainment. He carries it off with panache though. Re In any case, I do still think (as I said in the earlier discussion) that he's crpy.: That's his act! He plays up to the Svengali archetype. That's the fun of his show (and I've seen him live). The segment where he copied by remote-viewing what a psychic was drawing was probably pulled off by him suggesting subliminally key images as he talks to her. (What we see is edited, of course.) The segment where he knows what the woman had dreamed of over the previous nights was another knock-out. Pure effect as Derren Brown calls it. Still trying to figure that one out. He's a divisive figure in the UK. Some people (rationalists) really loathe him as he's such a consummate professional he inevitably makes viewers think, Hey, maybe there's something genuinely psychic going on. Most people, like me, recognise him as an outstanding magician and just enjoy being baffled. Some of his stunts it has literally taken me years of head-scratching to work out how he did them. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Yes, thank you. I've actually seen this segment before--someone posted it here a few years ago and we had a bit of discussion about it (the thread begins with #161279 if you want to have a look). Seeing it again, I find I've changed my mind somewhat about what's going on. I think he may, in fact, have a gift, but he doesn't know it; and it may not be a benign gift. He may--sometimes, not necessarily always--be getting some help from sources that he's not aware of because he's so focused on, and has such confidence in, his various tricks and techniques. As a confirmed skeptic, would he even recognize it if he were getting genuine little nudges from the Beyond? In any case, I do still think (as I said in the earlier discussion) that he's crpy. What I'd like to see would be what would happen if one of his subjects just flatly resisted him (even if he was telling them stuff about themselves that was true). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Does this site work for you? http://vimeo.com/46045821 http://vimeo.com/46045821 ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: The video ain't available in the U.S., sadly. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Mind-control magician and skeptic Derren Brown takes his debunking mission to America to show just how easy it is to dupe people into believing impossible things before breakfast. He tried to convince five leading figures that he had powers in their particular field of expertise: Christian evangelism, alien abduction, psychic powers, New Age theories and contacting the dead. The whole 50 minutes is a hoot but if you only take a peek check out the segment from 13:11 where he demonstrates his power to convert atheists with a touch. Derren is a friend and admirer of Richard Dawkins - I'd love to see him do this to the Great Atheist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLbesxxKzcM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLbesxxKzcM
[FairfieldLife] RE: Derren Brown: awesome display
Re Derren definitely possesses unusual abilities: Yes, but not *psychic* abilities. He uses NLP trickery (eye-movement cues); lip-reading expertise; amazing memory recall; covert hypnosis; muscle reading; old-fashioned conjuring ; . . . ; but nothing that can't be understood by a hard-nosed scientist. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote: I watched the whole thing and found it utterly fascinating. The interesting thing is, Derren definitely possesses unusual abilities and he knows this so the 'joke' is on us, the viewers, who are supposedly 'in the know' about what he is doing to the 'unsuspecting' 5 experts. The whole concept and execution was very watchable and I would like to see more from this guy. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: On the thread Judy referenced there's a cynical message by one curtisdeltablues It makes more sense that his NLP skills are instantly effective and magical on strangers. Yeah that makes much more sense. How could anyone actually give money to another person for the purposes of making it look like they had done something magical?: The clip he's talking about - where Derren gets strangers to hand over their wallets and keys - is a common criminal scam. It relies on a pattern interrupt, as they say in NLP jargon, and body mirror imaging and is clearly effective. (Apologies if link is blocked for US viewers.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Re As a confirmed skeptic, would he even recognize it if he were getting genuine little nudges from the Beyond?: Yes, that's an intriguing suggestion. However, having taken a look at the previous thread you referenced, I'm sure you've all got it wrong. Yes, he does use NLP ideas in some tricks but this is essentially a (covert) hypnosis session. At the point where he asks them if they now believe in God - and they all say Yes - he could have got them to go down on all fours and bark like a dog - the typical stage hypnosis entertainment. He carries it off with panache though. Re In any case, I do still think (as I said in the earlier discussion) that he's crpy.: That's his act! He plays up to the Svengali archetype. That's the fun of his show (and I've seen him live). The segment where he copied by remote-viewing what a psychic was drawing was probably pulled off by him suggesting subliminally key images as he talks to her. (What we see is edited, of course.) The segment where he knows what the woman had dreamed of over the previous nights was another knock-out. Pure effect as Derren Brown calls it. Still trying to figure that one out. He's a divisive figure in the UK. Some people (rationalists) really loathe him as he's such a consummate professional he inevitably makes viewers think, Hey, maybe there's something genuinely psychic going on. Most people, like me, recognise him as an outstanding magician and just enjoy being baffled. Some of his stunts it has literally taken me years of head-scratching to work out how he did them. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Yes, thank you. I've actually seen this segment before--someone posted it here a few years ago and we had a bit of discussion about it (the thread begins with #161279 if you want to have a look). Seeing it again, I find I've changed my mind somewhat about what's going on. I think he may, in fact, have a gift, but he doesn't know it; and it may not be a benign gift. He may--sometimes, not necessarily always--be getting some help from sources that he's not aware of because he's so focused on, and has such confidence in, his various tricks and techniques. As a confirmed skeptic, would he even recognize it if he were getting genuine little nudges from the Beyond? In any case, I do still think (as I said in the earlier discussion) that he's crpy. What I'd like to see would be what would happen if one of his subjects just flatly resisted him (even if he was telling them stuff about themselves that was true). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Does this site work for you? http://vimeo.com/46045821 http://vimeo.com/46045821 ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: The video ain't available in the U.S., sadly. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Mind-control magician and skeptic Derren Brown takes his debunking mission to America to show just how easy it is to dupe people into believing impossible things before breakfast. He tried to convince five leading figures that he had powers in their particular field of expertise: Christian evangelism, alien abduction, psychic powers, New Age theories and contacting the dead. The whole 50 minutes is a hoot but if you only take a peek check
[FairfieldLife] Re: Derren Brown: awesome display
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Re Derren definitely possesses unusual abilities: Yes, but not *psychic* abilities. He uses NLP trickery (eye-movement cues); lip-reading expertise; amazing memory recall; covert hypnosis; muscle reading; old-fashioned conjuring ; . . . ; but nothing that can't be understood by a hard-nosed scientist. So do the psychics. That's his point. Funny how some miss it. Speaking of such things, did you ever get a US TV series called Lie To Me there in the UK? It's definitely worth a watch, if you did and it comes up on reruns. Tim Roth (always great) plays a character based on the real work of Dr. Paul Ekman and the Ekman Group on facial recognition and body language. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@ wrote: I watched the whole thing and found it utterly fascinating. The interesting thing is, Derren definitely possesses unusual abilities and he knows this so the 'joke' is on us, the viewers, who are supposedly 'in the know' about what he is doing to the 'unsuspecting' 5 experts. The whole concept and execution was very watchable and I would like to see more from this guy. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@ wrote: On the thread Judy referenced there's a cynical message by one curtisdeltablues It makes more sense that his NLP skills are instantly effective and magical on strangers. Yeah that makes much more sense. How could anyone actually give money to another person for the purposes of making it look like they had done something magical?: The clip he's talking about - where Derren gets strangers to hand over their wallets and keys - is a common criminal scam. It relies on a pattern interrupt, as they say in NLP jargon, and body mirror imaging and is clearly effective. (Apologies if link is blocked for US viewers.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@ wrote: Re As a confirmed skeptic, would he even recognize it if he were getting genuine little nudges from the Beyond?: Yes, that's an intriguing suggestion. However, having taken a look at the previous thread you referenced, I'm sure you've all got it wrong. Yes, he does use NLP ideas in some tricks but this is essentially a (covert) hypnosis session. At the point where he asks them if they now believe in God - and they all say Yes - he could have got them to go down on all fours and bark like a dog - the typical stage hypnosis entertainment. He carries it off with panache though. Re In any case, I do still think (as I said in the earlier discussion) that he's crpy.: That's his act! He plays up to the Svengali archetype. That's the fun of his show (and I've seen him live). The segment where he copied by remote-viewing what a psychic was drawing was probably pulled off by him suggesting subliminally key images as he talks to her. (What we see is edited, of course.) The segment where he knows what the woman had dreamed of over the previous nights was another knock-out. Pure effect as Derren Brown calls it. Still trying to figure that one out. He's a divisive figure in the UK. Some people (rationalists) really loathe him as he's such a consummate professional he inevitably makes viewers think, Hey, maybe there's something genuinely psychic going on. Most people, like me, recognise him as an outstanding magician and just enjoy being baffled. Some of his stunts it has literally taken me years of head-scratching to work out how he did them. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@ wrote: Yes, thank you. I've actually seen this segment before--someone posted it here a few years ago and we had a bit of discussion about it (the thread begins with #161279 if you want to have a look). Seeing it again, I find I've changed my mind somewhat about what's going on. I think he may, in fact, have a gift, but he doesn't know it; and it may not be a benign gift. He may--sometimes, not necessarily always--be getting some help from sources that he's not aware of because he's so focused on, and has such confidence in, his various tricks and techniques. As a confirmed skeptic, would he even recognize it if he were getting genuine little nudges from the Beyond? In any case, I do still think (as I said in the earlier discussion) that he's crpy. What I'd like to see would be what would happen if one of his subjects just flatly resisted him (even if he was telling them stuff about themselves that was true). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@ wrote: Does this site work for you? http://vimeo.com/46045821 http://vimeo.com/46045821 ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@ wrote: The video ain't available in the U.S., sadly. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@ wrote: Mind-control magician and skeptic Derren Brown takes his debunking mission to America to show just how easy it is to dupe
[FairfieldLife] Re: Derren Brown: awesome display
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Re Derren definitely possesses unusual abilities: Yes, but not *psychic* abilities. He uses NLP trickery (eye-movement cues); lip-reading expertise; amazing memory recall; covert hypnosis; muscle reading; old-fashioned conjuring ; . . . ; but nothing that can't be understood by a hard-nosed scientist. So do the psychics. That's his point. Funny how some miss it. For the record, my point is that it strikes me as much more likely that psychics are using the skills above to do what they do subconsciously than that they are able to do what they do because some supernatural entity is helping them to, also subconsciously. The psychics using these techniques don't have to know that they're doing it, or have been trained in how to use them. Any competitive poker player uses all of these techniques in every game, but they aren't necessarily *aware* that they're using them.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Derren Brown: awesome display
Here's the problem: some people DO actually have psychic abilities. They may not know they even have them. They can be somewhat incomplete because they sometimes work and sometimes don't. They may also only work with certain things. If one doesn't have any of these abilities then it is hard to fathom that they exist and some people have them. One can develop these by using your intuition more. Since we are basically machines running on energy it isn't that implausible we radiate energy and broadcast thoughts. That technology might even be far beyond the present understanding of physics and radio broadcast. We are most likely STILL very primitive beings overly impressed with our primitive technology. On 11/19/2013 10:11 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Re Derren definitely possesses unusual abilities: Yes, but not *psychic* abilities. He uses NLP trickery (eye-movement cues); lip-reading expertise; amazing memory recall; covert hypnosis; muscle reading; old-fashioned conjuring ; . . . ; but nothing that can't be understood by a hard-nosed scientist. So do the psychics. That's his point. Funny how some miss it. For the record, my point is that it strikes me as much more likely that psychics are using the skills above to do what they do subconsciously than that they are able to do what they do because some supernatural entity is helping them to, also subconsciously. The psychics using these techniques don't have to know that they're doing it, or have been trained in how to use them. Any competitive poker player uses all of these techniques in every game, but they aren't necessarily *aware* that they're using them.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Derren Brown: awesome display
Re Here's the problem: some people DO actually have psychic abilities.: You may be right. I think the value of Derren Brown's work is that he gets you to see what's possible just by using mentalism-style magic so you learn to be more cautious and less credulous. I suspect that the genuine psychic stuff (if it exists) isn't amenable to scientific experimentation precisely because it's using levels of the mind that are outside our voluntary control (and so can't be reproduced to order). ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: Here's the problem: some people DO actually have psychic abilities. They may not know they even have them. They can be somewhat incomplete because they sometimes work and sometimes don't. They may also only work with certain things. If one doesn't have any of these abilities then it is hard to fathom that they exist and some people have them. One can develop these by using your intuition more. Since we are basically machines running on energy it isn't that implausible we radiate energy and broadcast thoughts. That technology might even be far beyond the present understanding of physics and radio broadcast. We are most likely STILL very primitive beings overly impressed with our primitive technology. On 11/19/2013 10:11 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Re Derren definitely possesses unusual abilities: Yes, but not *psychic* abilities. He uses NLP trickery (eye-movement cues); lip-reading expertise; amazing memory recall; covert hypnosis; muscle reading; old-fashioned conjuring ; . . . ; but nothing that can't be understood by a hard-nosed scientist. So do the psychics. That's his point. Funny how some miss it. For the record, my point is that it strikes me as much more likely that psychics are using the skills above to do what they do subconsciously than that they are able to do what they do because some supernatural entity is helping them to, also subconsciously. The psychics using these techniques don't have to know that they're doing it, or have been trained in how to use them. Any competitive poker player uses all of these techniques in every game, but they aren't necessarily *aware* that they're using them.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Derren Brown: awesome display
Speaking of such things, did you ever get a US TV series called Lie To Me there in the UK? ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Re Derren definitely possesses unusual abilities: Yes, but not *psychic* abilities. He uses NLP trickery (eye-movement cues); lip-reading expertise; amazing memory recall; covert hypnosis; muscle reading; old-fashioned conjuring ; . . . ; but nothing that can't be understood by a hard-nosed scientist. So do the psychics. That's his point. Funny how some miss it. Speaking of such things, did you ever get a US TV series called Lie To Me there in the UK? It's definitely worth a watch, if you did and it comes up on reruns. Tim Roth (always great) plays a character based on the real work of Dr. Paul Ekman and the Ekman Group on facial recognition and body language. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@ wrote: I watched the whole thing and found it utterly fascinating. The interesting thing is, Derren definitely possesses unusual abilities and he knows this so the 'joke' is on us, the viewers, who are supposedly 'in the know' about what he is doing to the 'unsuspecting' 5 experts. The whole concept and execution was very watchable and I would like to see more from this guy. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@ wrote: On the thread Judy referenced there's a cynical message by one curtisdeltablues It makes more sense that his NLP skills are instantly effective and magical on strangers. Yeah that makes much more sense. How could anyone actually give money to another person for the purposes of making it look like they had done something magical?: The clip he's talking about - where Derren gets strangers to hand over their wallets and keys - is a common criminal scam. It relies on a pattern interrupt, as they say in NLP jargon, and body mirror imaging and is clearly effective. (Apologies if link is blocked for US viewers.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@ wrote: Re As a confirmed skeptic, would he even recognize it if he were getting genuine little nudges from the Beyond?: Yes, that's an intriguing suggestion. However, having taken a look at the previous thread you referenced, I'm sure you've all got it wrong. Yes, he does use NLP ideas in some tricks but this is essentially a (covert) hypnosis session. At the point where he asks them if they now believe in God - and they all say Yes - he could have got them to go down on all fours and bark like a dog - the typical stage hypnosis entertainment. He carries it off with panache though. Re In any case, I do still think (as I said in the earlier discussion) that he's crpy.: That's his act! He plays up to the Svengali archetype. That's the fun of his show (and I've seen him live). The segment where he copied by remote-viewing what a psychic was drawing was probably pulled off by him suggesting subliminally key images as he talks to her. (What we see is edited, of course.) The segment where he knows what the woman had dreamed of over the previous nights was another knock-out. Pure effect as Derren Brown calls it. Still trying to figure that one out. He's a divisive figure in the UK. Some people (rationalists) really loathe him as he's such a consummate professional he inevitably makes viewers think, Hey, maybe there's something genuinely psychic going on. Most people, like me, recognise him as an outstanding magician and just enjoy being baffled. Some of his stunts it has literally taken me years of head-scratching to work out how he did them. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@ wrote: Yes, thank you. I've actually seen this segment before--someone posted it here a few years ago and we had a bit of discussion about it (the thread begins with #161279 if you want to have a look). Seeing it again, I find I've changed my mind somewhat about what's going on. I think he may, in fact, have a gift, but he doesn't know it; and it may not be a benign gift. He may--sometimes, not necessarily always--be getting some help from sources that he's not aware of because he's so focused on, and has such confidence in, his various tricks and techniques. As a confirmed skeptic, would he even recognize it if he were getting genuine little nudges from the Beyond? In any case, I do still think (as I said in the earlier discussion) that he's crpy. What I'd like to see would be what would happen if one of his subjects just
[FairfieldLife] RE: Derren Brown: awesome display
Staring contest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6gzuKti1-I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6gzuKti1-I ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Mind-control magician and skeptic Derren Brown takes his debunking mission to America to show just how easy it is to dupe people into believing impossible things before breakfast. He tried to convince five leading figures that he had powers in their particular field of expertise: Christian evangelism, alien abduction, psychic powers, New Age theories and contacting the dead. The whole 50 minutes is a hoot but if you only take a peek check out the segment from 13:11 where he demonstrates his power to convert atheists with a touch. Derren is a friend and admirer of Richard Dawkins - I'd love to see him do this to the Great Atheist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLbesxxKzcM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLbesxxKzcM
[FairfieldLife] RE: Derren Brown: awesome display
The video ain't available in the U.S., sadly. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Mind-control magician and skeptic Derren Brown takes his debunking mission to America to show just how easy it is to dupe people into believing impossible things before breakfast. He tried to convince five leading figures that he had powers in their particular field of expertise: Christian evangelism, alien abduction, psychic powers, New Age theories and contacting the dead. The whole 50 minutes is a hoot but if you only take a peek check out the segment from 13:11 where he demonstrates his power to convert atheists with a touch. Derren is a friend and admirer of Richard Dawkins - I'd love to see him do this to the Great Atheist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLbesxxKzcM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLbesxxKzcM
[FairfieldLife] RE: Derren Brown: awesome display
Does this site work for you? http://vimeo.com/46045821 http://vimeo.com/46045821 ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: The video ain't available in the U.S., sadly. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Mind-control magician and skeptic Derren Brown takes his debunking mission to America to show just how easy it is to dupe people into believing impossible things before breakfast. He tried to convince five leading figures that he had powers in their particular field of expertise: Christian evangelism, alien abduction, psychic powers, New Age theories and contacting the dead. The whole 50 minutes is a hoot but if you only take a peek check out the segment from 13:11 where he demonstrates his power to convert atheists with a touch. Derren is a friend and admirer of Richard Dawkins - I'd love to see him do this to the Great Atheist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLbesxxKzcM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLbesxxKzcM
[FairfieldLife] RE: Derren Brown: awesome display
Re As a confirmed skeptic, would he even recognize it if he were getting genuine little nudges from the Beyond?: Yes, that's an intriguing suggestion. However, having taken a look at the previous thread you referenced, I'm sure you've all got it wrong. Yes, he does use NLP ideas in some tricks but this is essentially a (covert) hypnosis session. At the point where he asks them if they now believe in God - and they all say Yes - he could have got them to go down on all fours and bark like a dog - the typical stage hypnosis entertainment. He carries it off with panache though. Re In any case, I do still think (as I said in the earlier discussion) that he's crpy.: That's his act! He plays up to the Svengali archetype. That's the fun of his show (and I've seen him live). The segment where he copied by remote-viewing what a psychic was drawing was probably pulled off by him suggesting subliminally key images as he talks to her. (What we see is edited, of course.) The segment where he knows what the woman had dreamed of over the previous nights was another knock-out. Pure effect as Derren Brown calls it. Still trying to figure that one out. He's a divisive figure in the UK. Some people (rationalists) really loathe him as he's such a consummate professional he inevitably makes viewers think, Hey, maybe there's something genuinely psychic going on. Most people, like me, recognise him as an outstanding magician and just enjoy being baffled. Some of his stunts it has literally taken me years of head-scratching to work out how he did them. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Yes, thank you. I've actually seen this segment before--someone posted it here a few years ago and we had a bit of discussion about it (the thread begins with #161279 if you want to have a look). Seeing it again, I find I've changed my mind somewhat about what's going on. I think he may, in fact, have a gift, but he doesn't know it; and it may not be a benign gift. He may--sometimes, not necessarily always--be getting some help from sources that he's not aware of because he's so focused on, and has such confidence in, his various tricks and techniques. As a confirmed skeptic, would he even recognize it if he were getting genuine little nudges from the Beyond? In any case, I do still think (as I said in the earlier discussion) that he's crpy. What I'd like to see would be what would happen if one of his subjects just flatly resisted him (even if he was telling them stuff about themselves that was true). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Does this site work for you? http://vimeo.com/46045821 http://vimeo.com/46045821 ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: The video ain't available in the U.S., sadly. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Mind-control magician and skeptic Derren Brown takes his debunking mission to America to show just how easy it is to dupe people into believing impossible things before breakfast. He tried to convince five leading figures that he had powers in their particular field of expertise: Christian evangelism, alien abduction, psychic powers, New Age theories and contacting the dead. The whole 50 minutes is a hoot but if you only take a peek check out the segment from 13:11 where he demonstrates his power to convert atheists with a touch. Derren is a friend and admirer of Richard Dawkins - I'd love to see him do this to the Great Atheist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLbesxxKzcM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLbesxxKzcM
[FairfieldLife] RE: Derren Brown: awesome display
On the thread Judy referenced there's a cynical message by one curtisdeltablues It makes more sense that his NLP skills are instantly effective and magical on strangers. Yeah that makes much more sense. How could anyone actually give money to another person for the purposes of making it look like they had done something magical?: The clip he's talking about - where Derren gets strangers to hand over their wallets and keys - is a common criminal scam. It relies on a pattern interrupt, as they say in NLP jargon, and body mirror imaging and is clearly effective. (Apologies if link is blocked for US viewers.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Re As a confirmed skeptic, would he even recognize it if he were getting genuine little nudges from the Beyond?: Yes, that's an intriguing suggestion. However, having taken a look at the previous thread you referenced, I'm sure you've all got it wrong. Yes, he does use NLP ideas in some tricks but this is essentially a (covert) hypnosis session. At the point where he asks them if they now believe in God - and they all say Yes - he could have got them to go down on all fours and bark like a dog - the typical stage hypnosis entertainment. He carries it off with panache though. Re In any case, I do still think (as I said in the earlier discussion) that he's crpy.: That's his act! He plays up to the Svengali archetype. That's the fun of his show (and I've seen him live). The segment where he copied by remote-viewing what a psychic was drawing was probably pulled off by him suggesting subliminally key images as he talks to her. (What we see is edited, of course.) The segment where he knows what the woman had dreamed of over the previous nights was another knock-out. Pure effect as Derren Brown calls it. Still trying to figure that one out. He's a divisive figure in the UK. Some people (rationalists) really loathe him as he's such a consummate professional he inevitably makes viewers think, Hey, maybe there's something genuinely psychic going on. Most people, like me, recognise him as an outstanding magician and just enjoy being baffled. Some of his stunts it has literally taken me years of head-scratching to work out how he did them. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Yes, thank you. I've actually seen this segment before--someone posted it here a few years ago and we had a bit of discussion about it (the thread begins with #161279 if you want to have a look). Seeing it again, I find I've changed my mind somewhat about what's going on. I think he may, in fact, have a gift, but he doesn't know it; and it may not be a benign gift. He may--sometimes, not necessarily always--be getting some help from sources that he's not aware of because he's so focused on, and has such confidence in, his various tricks and techniques. As a confirmed skeptic, would he even recognize it if he were getting genuine little nudges from the Beyond? In any case, I do still think (as I said in the earlier discussion) that he's crpy. What I'd like to see would be what would happen if one of his subjects just flatly resisted him (even if he was telling them stuff about themselves that was true). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Does this site work for you? http://vimeo.com/46045821 http://vimeo.com/46045821 ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: The video ain't available in the U.S., sadly. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Mind-control magician and skeptic Derren Brown takes his debunking mission to America to show just how easy it is to dupe people into believing impossible things before breakfast. He tried to convince five leading figures that he had powers in their particular field of expertise: Christian evangelism, alien abduction, psychic powers, New Age theories and contacting the dead. The whole 50 minutes is a hoot but if you only take a peek check out the segment from 13:11 where he demonstrates his power to convert atheists with a touch. Derren is a friend and admirer of Richard Dawkins - I'd love to see him do this to the Great Atheist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLbesxxKzcM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLbesxxKzcM
