John, I would posit that the hippie movement was a spiritual one in some ways,
which included looking for inspiration but not from traditional religions.
On Tuesday, May 13, 2014 11:49 AM, jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Share,
I love that song too.
Share,
The hippie movement was a cultural transformation for the American people,
which included the assimilation of spiritual ideas from other cultures,
particularly those from India. It was at this time that MMY and Srila
Prabhupada became popular here.
But it also included the
John, that's very interesting about the Ketu period of the US. BTW, I go into
my Rahu a period a week after the US does.
On Wednesday, May 14, 2014 2:17 PM, jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Share,
The hippie movement was a cultural transformation for
hey, John, have there been any more of them Ketu periods for the US, since then
('65 to '72), or scheduled for the future?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
Share,
The hippie movement was a cultural transformation for the American people,
which included the
Fleetwood,
Yes, the last Ketu period for the US chart was in 1845 to 1852. This was at
the time of the Mexican-American War. Please, see this history timeline:
http://www.animatedatlas.com/timeline.html
http://www.animatedatlas.com/timeline.html
The next Ketu period will
interesting point and observation
see more below
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :
Even someone like me with genuine, diagnosed-by-a-doctor OCD, can transcend
just fine. Obsessing about TM is Just Another Obsession and doesn't interfere
with the practice any more
On 5/13/2014 7:31 AM, merudanda wrote:
it's all just thinking, afterall, and if you can obsess, er, think,
you can meditate.
That's what I'm saying!
If TM is just thinking tings over, how could it harm your brain? Doesn't
everyone think at least once a twice a day? Is anyone out there still
John, me and The Byrds agree with you (-:
The Byrds - Turn! Turn! Turn!
The Byrds - Turn! Turn! Turn!
View on www.youtube.com Preview by Yahoo
On Monday, May 12, 2014 2:52 PM, jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Share,
To everything there is a
Share,
I love that song too. I'm still wondering about the details as to why they
used the words from Ecclesiastes. And, that song was made when the hippie
movement was fairly strong.
This quote can also apply to jyotish. So, it covers all the affairs of people
on this earth.
'The kingdom of go is within you'
English is kind of ambiguous in this phrase. A more literal translation would
be 'the kingdom of god is in of you' and the word 'you' is second person plural
in Greek but English does not make that distinction except by context, and the
context does not make
'The kingdom of god is within you'
English is kind of ambiguous in this phrase. A more literal translation would
be 'the kingdom of god is in of you' and the word 'you' is second person plural
in Greek but English does not make that distinction except by context, and the
context does not
A fave of mine, too. Written by Pete Seeger, and made famous by the Byrds.
Here's Pete, on God, from wikipedia:
When asked about his religious or spiritual views, Seeger replied: I feel
most spiritual when I’m out in the woods. I feel part of nature
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism.
Fleetwood,
Thanks for that info. Now everybody knows a little bit more about this Byrd
song.
From what remember, Qoheleth was the author of Ecclesiastes from which this
passage came from. At first glance, this passage sounds more of a lament of
life in general. But, since it got
Lawson,
I find your comments to be generally similar to what I'm trying to say. My
comments are in red letters below:
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :
You're assuming that transcending means letting go of a specific kind of
thought, rather than thoughts i
Transcendence happens when you stop worryinjg about it, period.
Atheists and agnostics who don't worry about spiritual things in general, may
well be more likely to transcend than believers who DO worry about spiritual
things.
It is possible that some atheist is obsessing about things
, 2014 9:32 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
Lawson,
I find your comments to be generally similar to what I'm trying to say. My
comments are in red letters below:
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :
You're assuming that transcending means
A checking will take care of it, agnostic or not.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :
Transcendence happens when you stop worryinjg about it, period.
Atheists and agnostics who don't worry about spiritual things in general, may
well be more likely to transcend than
From: lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Transcendence happens when you stop worryinjg about it, period.
Atheists and agnostics who don't worry about spiritual things in general, may
well be more likely to transcend than believers who DO worry about spiritual
Hmm, I always did wonder where Jesus learned English.
Oh, Barry, you tiddlywink. I just want to hang you up by the collar of your
little sailor suit and pinch those chubby pink cheeks.
(No kidding, folks, Barry's said a lot of unbelievably stupid things here,
especially recently. But this
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :
John, since you persist in this somewhat presumptuous folly, I'd like you to
*document* why you believe it, and believe that *your* version of who can
transcend and who cannot seems to differ from Maharishi's. Please find and post
thanks, Lawson, for all your great info about the TM research, etc. I agree
with your ideas about obsession and worry. I also think it's a funny but
wonderful paradox that as more transcendence is established in awareness, one
thinks about all this so called spiritual stuff way less! Unless to
Even someone like me with genuine, diagnosed-by-a-doctor OCD, can transcend
just fine. Obsessing about TM is Just Another Obsession and doesn't interfere
with the practice any more than any other obsession -it's all just thinking,
afterall, and if you can obsess, er, think, you can meditate.
John, the older I get, the more I realize that it's such a huge universe, big
enough for all possibilities, for throwing out all the old rules (-:
On Monday, May 12, 2014 2:32 AM, jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Lawson,
I find your comments to be
You know, I missed this part:
If you cannot, please explain to us why we shouldn't consider them mere
examples of spiritual bigotry and hatred, spouted by someone anxious to impose
his notions of an Old Testament God onto Maharishi's notions of Being and
overwrite them...replace them with a
(-:
Actually I wonder if more thinking is just an indication of more transcending
in activity...
On Monday, May 12, 2014 10:20 AM, lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Even someone like me with genuine, diagnosed-by-a-doctor OCD, can transcend
just
Steve S.,
If you have not already done so, please read MMY's commentary to the Bhagavad
Gita. He talks about the transcending process and the difference between the
individual self and the cosmic Self.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :
Okay, how bout,
Nabs,
MMY stated that meditation is a form of yagya performed in the context of
vedic rituals. Yagyas are really offerings of food to the vedic gods. The
ritual is done by burning ghee, mustard seed, coconut and other items within
the fire, or Agni, one of the many deities in the Hindu
Michael J.,
What's the point?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :
Man shoots, kills woman he mistakes for groundhog
SUGAR CREEK TWP., Ohio — A 22-year-old woman is dead after a farmer mistakenly
shot her thinking she was a groundhog in tall grass.
Stark
Ann,
Well said. You're a very intelligent woman.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote :
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :
John, since you persist in this somewhat presumptuous folly, I'd like you to
*document* why you believe it,
Ann has had Barry's number virtually from the beginning of her time here.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
Ann,
Well said. You're a very intelligent woman.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote :
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
Share,
To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
Ecclesiastes 3:1
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :
John, the older I get, the more I realize that it's such a huge universe, big
enough for all possibilities, for throwing out
Judy,
Jesus said many mysterious ideas in his teachings. IMO, he was conveying the
idea of consciousness as the basis of everything to ignorant people, including
the apostles, at that time. For this reason, the Jews conspired to have the
Romans kill him by crucifixion on a wooden cross.
Comments below...
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
Judy,
Jesus said many mysterious ideas in his teachings. IMO, he was conveying the
idea of consciousness as the basis of everything to ignorant people, including
the apostles, at that time.
I'm not contesting
That's a beautiful and valid point of view.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
Nabs,
MMY stated that meditation is a form of yagya performed in the context of
vedic rituals. Yagyas are really offerings of food to the vedic gods. The
ritual is done by burning ghee,
What is your source material for saying Marshy said this, please?
On Mon, 5/12/14, jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date
, 5/12/14, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, May 12, 2014, 7:20 PM
I think his point was probably that the farmer was just like the TMO -- always
getting things wrong and harming people.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
Michael J.,
What's the point?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :
Man shoots, kills
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
Ann,
Well said. You're a very intelligent woman.
Well honestly John, the guy has the manners of a constipated hippo, the grace
of a one-legged stork, the sophistication of a porcupine on steroids and the
depth measured by a
] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 13, 2014, 12:50 AM
I think his point was probably that the farmer was
just like the TMO -- always getting things wrong and harming
people.
---In FairfieldLife
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :
No it was just a post that might be of interest to those who had been talking
about guns. One may interpret the story of death by mistaken identity as one
sees fit.
It is as interesting as it is relevant. Not only do we have
From: curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
Curtis,
It sounds like you have not transcended thoughts at all.
C: And what could you possibly basing that on? Just because I have not come to
the
You're assuming that transcending means letting go of a specific kind of
thought, rather than thoughts i general.
Thoughts are transcended during TM not because we hold onto specific
thoughts during TM, but because we have been taught that it isn't necessary to
attempt to control the mind
Barry,
My comments are shown in red letters below:
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :
From: curtisdeltablues@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
Curtis,
It sounds like you have not
] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2014 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
Barry,
My comments are shown in red letters below:
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :
From
Agreed, the ability to transcend has nothing whatsoever to do with ones
beliefs in the waking state but on the mechanical abilities of the
nervous-system. But if you are doing TM correctly it is doubtful one can remain
an atheist forever.
Organized religions don't talk much about
I don't think that antiests or agnostics are unable to remain atheists or
agnostics once they start having God Consciousness or Unity consciousness.
The fact that most of our spiritual practices are bound up with religious
traditions means that you have few agnostics who are also long-term
That's where Buddhism as understood today fails utterly as their models stop
with nirvana, they simply don't have any idea or experience of what develops
after the initial stages of transcending. To hear them even discuss these
topics here on FFL simply brings a smile to your face. And it
On the other hand, was a meditation that actually worked, like TM, available
for the Buddhist's many of their stale and outdated concepts would naturally
fall away and a new light would dawn to millions of souls. This is what is
happening in South East Asia today and it will not stop there.
Comments below...
I should also point out that you seem intent to portray anyone who *doesn't*
believe in a God as lesser and on some lower plane of existence.
Sorta like you portray anyone who DOES believe in a God.
snips
My continuing experiences of what he called
Actually, there's major scholarly disagreement with the translation within.
Jesus was directly addressing the Pharisees, after all, not making a general
statement; and he'd made it crystal clear that he thought they were corrupt
inside and out. Just contextually, it's extremely unlikely he was
It is interesting that many atheists, or non-theists, have a very clear idea of
the God that they say doesn't exist. They can describe this Being, who is a
complete fiction to them, better than many who actually believe in God. How
funny is that?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
P.S.: The complete sentence is, The Kingdom of God is within/among/in the
midst of you--you meaning the Pharisees. You can't leave off the you
without seriously misrepresenting what Jesus was saying.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :
Actually, there's major
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :
From: curtisdeltablues@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
Curtis,
It sounds like you have not transcended thoughts at all.
C: And what could you
On 5/11/2014 5:27 AM, nablusoss1008 wrote:
That's where Buddhism as understood today fails utterly as their
models stop with nirvana, they simply don't have any idea or
experience of what develops after the initial stages of transcending.
To hear them even discuss these topics here on FFL
Isn't it in Lukas somewhere it says Seek yea first the kingdom of heaven
within.. ?
Among turned up in newer translations probably because the within was
confusing since they have no idea what that is supposed to be. Also, someone
who sought within would be a threat to the Church knowing
I think it could be a great title for a book, Atheists Can't Transcend
Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen a book in the series along the
lines of Transcending for Dummies
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :
Isn't it in Lukas somewhere it says
Nope. But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be
added unto you (Luke 12:31). Matthew has Seek ye first the kingdom of God and
his righteousness... (6:33).
Again, Nabby, Jesus was talking to the Pharisees, who he thought were
spiritually corrupt and incapable of
But believe it or not, there is an Atheism for Dummies book.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :
I think it could be a great title for a book, Atheists Can't Transcend
Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen a book in the series along the
lines of
Okay, how bout,
Atheists Can't Transcend.
How Being Bounced Me Right Out of The Transcendent.
One Man's Personal Journey
(okay, okay, I know it's got some problems technically with transcending
...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2014 5:23 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
Okay, how bout,
Atheists Can't Transcend.
How Being
Happy to hear that you were present and knew exactly what Jesus was talking
about.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :
Nope. But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be
added unto you (Luke 12:31). Matthew has Seek ye first the kingdom of God
I've seen research on ch'an meditators that suggests that, at least for that
group, ch'an meditation had some of the same effects as TM.
John Hagelin, in a recent lecture he gave in Tucson, mentioned that a
researcher on Zen was proudly touting the impressive (John's word) coherent
alpha EEG
More esoteric/gnostic early Christian writings such as the Gospel of Thomas are
far more clear in their mystical phrasing concerning the Kingdom of Heaven,
though, of course, they aren't considered canon by any modern form of
Christianity.
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
26 years of struggling to achieve what a TM meditator gets in 1 year, quite an
impressive achievement :-)
No wonder why Buddhists everywhere now start to embrace real meditation.
Wesak will prepare them further for the future:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLuDcFOA8O0
Sure. And for all we know, similar sayings of Jesus to those in the Gospel of
Thomas may have been redacted from the canonical Gospels. But in this case, he
had a very specific point to make to the Pharisees about his identity and their
inability to see him for who he was. He wasn't saying Look
On 5/11/2014 10:39 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
wrote:
To believe the statement in the Subject line, you'd have to be able to
believe that Being is so petty that it would bar admittance to those
who didn't believe in it.
The word Being implies /a being of some kind/,
On 5/11/2014 10:39 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
wrote:
It does have some problems, but it cuts to the heart of the matter.
Energy is the heart of the matter. Energy works according to /causation/
- that being so, there must be a /cause for everything/ - you can't get
Chan and Zen are not the same - as Willy should know but does not.
Chan is Chinese, Zen is Japanese and they each reflect the assumptions of
their own cultures. However, Chan is not only Chinese but is the distillation
of millennia of syntheses with other Buddhist traditions. Zen, on the other
If you go for this, it's pretty important, that the cover art for the book,
contains, at a minimum, a shining sun, blue sky, and a multi-ethnic group of
people, some in native garb, mostly smiling a bit too much, with a few, 'deep
in thought'.
Splash quotes on the cover, by Ram Dass, and
dhyan buddhism entered CHina and became Ch'an Buddhism. Ch'an Buddhism entered
Japan and became Zen Buddhism.
The drift in pronunciation mirrors the drift in practices, or so I have read.
That each picked up cultural baggage during the migration isn't the point.
and as I said:
I've
The so called parallel between the results of practice means little because it
lacks specifics. That is the usual TMO mode of generalization, based as it is
upon proselytizing, but in this forum we are not the usual wide-eyed
suchophants. We would think that you could do better but as a
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote :
If you go for this, it's pretty important, that the cover art for the book,
contains, at a minimum, a shining sun, blue sky, and a multi-ethnic group of
people, some in native garb, mostly smiling a bit too much, with a
but...but...she's so forgettable...I'll consider Jane Fonda??
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote :
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote :
If you go for this, it's pretty important, that the cover art for the book,
contains, at a
How 'bout, Betty White? Everybody loves Betty White...and I wouldn't be
surprised, if, over her long acting career, she didn't plug at least a couple
of Kraft products - perhaps mini-marshmallows, and A1 Steak Sauce...
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote :
Xeno,
My comments are in red letters below:
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote :
If everything is being, 'transcending' is then just a myth, a story. The
question here is, under what circumstances is the concept of transcending
useful? All of us who learned
I assume that response was to me?
I dont' know enough about the presentation John was referring to. He just said
26-year zen practitioner and of course, this reference to a zen practitioner
was presented at a conference that ended a couple of weeks ago, so I don't know
any more details.
This is Maharishi's response to criticisms of his call for scientific research
on TM. I found it in an old Creative Intelligence Journal, and have no reason
to doubt it's veracity, though I can't give you a timeframe for when he said
it:
Every experience has its level of physiology, and so
Who says they have to?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
Why? Because they can't let go of the idea that God doesn't exist. What do
you think?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
Why? Because they can't let go of the idea that God doesn't exist. What do
you think?
C: I transcend just fine in the Maharishi technique sense, no differently
than when I was a believer.
I don't even have to have any idea
Curtis,
If you say that you've transcended while meditating, then that means you've
experienced Being. So if that is so, how can you say that there is no God,
which is Being Itself?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote :
---In
Judy,
Nobody says they have to. And that's precisely why they can't transcend.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :
Who says they have to?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
Why? Because they can't let go of the idea that God doesn't exist.
Let me try that again. Who says they have to let go of the idea that there is
no God in order to transcend?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
Judy,
Nobody says they have to. And that's precisely why they can't transcend.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
I think you're in the wrong meditation discussion forum or that you need to go
get checked.
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
Why? Because they can't let go of the idea that God doesn't exist. What do
you think?
Atheists Can't Transcend
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
Why? Because they can't let go of the idea that God doesn't exist.
You can't prove a negative.
What do you think?
We are all transcending all the time to a certain degree, if by being
transcending
Lawson,
What is wrong with the statement that I made? Please, explain.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :
I think you're in the wrong meditation discussion forum or that you need to go
get checked.
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@...
Judy,
Nobody says they have to let go of the idea that there is no God. They have
the personal freedom to believe whatever ideas they can think of. But by
definition, transcending means going beyond the subtlest thought--even the idea
that there is a God. As such, the meditator can
S. Richard,
My responses are in red letters below:
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :
Atheists Can't Transcend
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
Why? Because they can't let go of the idea that God doesn't exist.
You can't prove a
--In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
Curtis,
If you say that you've transcended while meditating, then that means you've
experienced Being. So if that is so, how can you say that there is no God,
which is Being Itself?
C: It is all in how you attach meaning to the
If everything is being, 'transcending' is then just a myth, a story. The
question here is, under what circumstances is the concept of transcending
useful? All of us who learned TM obviously must have encountered the term. All
the word means is 'to go beyond the range or limits of', and if
Funny, I never really associated transcending with religious concepts or with
God. I just transcended to a quieter area of my mind. My religious beliefs
always remained separate. Sometimes, when meditating, I had what felt like
restful alertness, which then translated into what I felt was a
Curtis,
It sounds like you have not transcended thoughts at all. As such, you have
not experienced Being. It appears that you still have a doubt in your mind,
which is a thought in itself. Or, if it isn't doubt, it's the idea of denial
of experiencing Being, which is a thought in itself.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
Curtis,
It sounds like you have not transcended thoughts at all.
C: And what could you possibly basing that on? Just because I have not come to
the conclusions you have about the experience? Do you really think that in my
15 years
Curtis,
My responses are shown in red letters below:
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote :
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
Curtis,
It sounds like you have not transcended thoughts at all.
C: And what could you possibly basing
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