[FairfieldLife] Re: More Shankara-dig-vijaya: "...as lightly as a bundle of cotton."
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > The real problem is the need to compete. It can take > > many forms, depending on the nature of the competing > > religions. > > > Well said. The need to compete keeps us attached to the birth and > death of ideas, the birth and death of desires, and the birth and > death of the body. Which is why transcending the discrimination of the > intellect is a vital component of Realization. > Without descrimination of the intellect, how are there components? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More Shankara-dig-vijaya: "...as lightly as a bundle of cotton."
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The real problem is the need to compete. It can take > > > > > > many forms, depending on the nature of the competing > > > > > > religions. > > > > > > > > > > > Well said. The need to compete keeps us attached to the > > > > > birth and death of ideas, the birth and death of desires, > > > > > and the birth and death of the body. > > > > > > > > Or the other way around, the need to compete is a > > > > function of attachment. > > > > > > Right. Kind of a snake chasing its tail type of thing. Either > > > way it is a circle. > > > > Plus the irony that if religion can be said to > > have a goal, it's to break that vicious circle. > > Yes. *Very* ironic! A close friend of mine remarked that they > thought the main goal of any religion is to prepare us for death. Oy gevalt. Well, death is transcendence of a sort. Or transcendence is a sort of death. So he wasn't far wrong, conceptually at least. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More Shankara-dig-vijaya: "...as lightly as a bundle of cotton."
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The real problem is the need to compete. It can take > > > > > many forms, depending on the nature of the competing > > > > > religions. > > > > > > > > > Well said. The need to compete keeps us attached to the birth > > > > and death of ideas, the birth and death of desires, and the > > > > birth and death of the body. > > > > > > Or the other way around, the need to compete is a > > > function of attachment. > > > > Right. Kind of a snake chasing its tail type of thing. Either way > > it is a circle. > > Plus the irony that if religion can be said to > have a goal, it's to break that vicious circle. Yes. *Very* ironic! A close friend of mine remarked that they thought the main goal of any religion is to prepare us for death. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More Shankara-dig-vijaya: "...as lightly as a bundle of cotton."
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > The real problem is the need to compete. It can take > > > > many forms, depending on the nature of the competing > > > > religions. > > > > > > > Well said. The need to compete keeps us attached to the birth > > > and death of ideas, the birth and death of desires, and the > > > birth and death of the body. > > > > Or the other way around, the need to compete is a > > function of attachment. > > Right. Kind of a snake chasing its tail type of thing. Either way > it is a circle. Plus the irony that if religion can be said to have a goal, it's to break that vicious circle. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More Shankara-dig-vijaya: "...as lightly as a bundle of cotton."
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > The real problem is the need to compete. It can take > > > many forms, depending on the nature of the competing > > > religions. > > > > > Well said. The need to compete keeps us attached to the birth and > > death of ideas, the birth and death of desires, and the birth and > > death of the body. > > Or the other way around, the need to compete is a > function of attachment. Right. Kind of a snake chasing its tail type of thing. Either way it is a circle. > > > Which is why transcending the discrimination of the > > intellect is a vital component of Realization. > > Either way... > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More Shankara-dig-vijaya: "...as lightly as a bundle of cotton."
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > The real problem is the need to compete. It can take > > many forms, depending on the nature of the competing > > religions. > > > Well said. The need to compete keeps us attached to the birth and > death of ideas, the birth and death of desires, and the birth and > death of the body. Or the other way around, the need to compete is a function of attachment. > Which is why transcending the discrimination of the > intellect is a vital component of Realization. Either way... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More Shankara-dig-vijaya: "...as lightly as a bundle of cotton."
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The real problem is the need to compete. It can take > many forms, depending on the nature of the competing > religions. > Well said. The need to compete keeps us attached to the birth and death of ideas, the birth and death of desires, and the birth and death of the body. Which is why transcending the discrimination of the intellect is a vital component of Realization. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More Shankara-dig-vijaya: "...as lightly as a bundle of cotton."
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "benjaminccollins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > In the world there are invisible ladders, leading step by step to > the summit of heaven. > There is a different ladder for every group, a different heaven for > every path. > Each one is ignorant of the other's condition in this wide kingdom > which has no end or beginning. > This one is amazed at that one and wonders why he is happy, while > that one is astonished at this one and asks why he is amazed. > God's earth is spacious*: every tree springs up from a certain soil. > The leaves and boughs sing thanks to God: > "What a fine, broad kingdom." > The nightingales hover around the fruiting blossom, calling, "Give > us some of what you drink." > This discourse has no end. Lovely!! "This one is amazed at that one and wonders why he is happy, while that one is astonished at this one and asks why he is amazed." Perfect. Good ol' Rumi. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More Shankara-dig-vijaya: "...as lightly as a bundle of cotton."
In the world there are invisible ladders, leading step by step to the summit of heaven. There is a different ladder for every group, a different heaven for every path. Each one is ignorant of the other's condition in this wide kingdom which has no end or beginning. This one is amazed at that one and wonders why he is happy, while that one is astonished at this one and asks why he is amazed. God's earth is spacious*: every tree springs up from a certain soil. The leaves and boughs sing thanks to God: "What a fine, broad kingdom." The nightingales hover around the fruiting blossom, calling, "Give us some of what you drink." This discourse has no end. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Nardobân-hâyist penhân dar jahân pâyeh pâyeh tâ `enân-e âsmân Har goroh-râ nardobâni digarast har ravesh-râ âsmâni digarast Har yeki azhâl-e digar bi khabar molk bâ pahnâ o bi pâyân o sar In dar ân hayrân keh u chist khvosh va ân darin khireh keh hayrat chistesh Sahn-e Ard Allâh wâsi`* âmadeh har derakhti az zamini sar zadeh Bar derakhtân shokr guyân barg o shâkh keh "Zehi molk o zehi `arseh-ye farâkh" Bolbolân gerd-e shekufeh par gereh keh "Az âncheh mi khvori mâ-râ be-deh" In sokhan pâyân na-dârad kon roju` su-ye ân rubâh o shir o soqm o ju` -- Mathnawi V: 2556-2563 Version by Camille and Kabir Helminski "Rumi: Jewels of Remembrance" Threshold Books, 1996 (Persian transliteration courtesy of Yahyá Monastra) ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > (72-77) Having thus humbled the pride of the Buddhists, > > > > > the Brahmana sage [Skanda as Kumarila Bhatta] now began > > > > > to expound the meanings of the Vedic Mantras in order > > > > > to enlighten [Indra as] king Sudhanvan. The king thereupon > > > > > said, "In wordy controversies, success and failure depend > > > > > only on the learning of the respective parties. It does > > > > > not really prove the truth of the thesis. I can accept > > > > > the religion of that party as true, who can jump down > > > > > unhurt from the top of yonder mountain." > > > > > At these words of the king, all the scholars merely stood > > > > > aghast looking at each other, unable to take up the > > > > > challenge of the ordeal. But the Brahmana sage, with his > > > > > mind concentrated on the Veda, ascended the mountain top, > > > > > and declared: "If the Veda is the true scripture, my body > > > > > shall not be hurt by this ordeal." With this mighty > > > > > declaration, > > > > > the sage jumped down from the mountain top, as the spectators > > > > > shouted in wonder of the sight: "Oh! Is it king Yayati > > > > > coming down from heaven on the expiry of the merits his > > > > > grandson had transferred to him!" That best of Brahmanas > > > > > now touched the earth as lightly as a bundle of cotton. > > > > > Is it any wonder that the Veda protects one with whole- > > > > > hearted faith in it? > > > > > > > > A wonderful teaching. I feel that the world > > > > would definitely be a better place if religious > > > > fanatics, those who are caught up in the "My way > > > > is the best" game, undertook a similar test and > > > > proved their "best" claim by leaping from the > > > > top of the nearest mountain. > > > > > > It was kinda surprise to me how "anti-buddhist" > > > Vidyaranya is. I myself have nothing against Buddhists. > > > FCS, I'm doing anapanasati in addition to TM nowadays. :) > > > And a combination ,sort of, of TM and anapana is very > > > "powerful". :0 > > > > I understood that. I was just commenting on the > > attitude expressed in the teaching, and in similar > > quotes you've posted lately. I, too, am somewhat > > shocked by the vehemence with which early leaders > > of the Shankaracharya tradition tried to put down > > their Buddhist "competition." > > > > Because that's really the issue. Buddhism was to > > the Hindu establishment very much what Catharism > > was to the established Roman Catholic Church -- a > > competitor that ate into profits. Buddhism rejected > > most of the rites and rituals (yagyas, etc.) for > > which the priests received money. The very *idea* > > of an approach to liberation that could be done on > > one's own, without the intervention of clergy (*paid* > > clergy) was probably viewed as a real danger, because > > it challenged the status quo and economic solvency > > of the Hindu tradition. The religious fanatic "We > > know the truth and no one else does" stuff is almost > > seconda
[FairfieldLife] Re: More Shankara-dig-vijaya: "...as lightly as a bundle of cotton."
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > (72-77) Having thus humbled the pride of the Buddhists, > > > > the Brahmana sage [Skanda as Kumarila Bhatta] now began > > > > to expound the meanings of the Vedic Mantras in order > > > > to enlighten [Indra as] king Sudhanvan. The king thereupon > > > > said, "In wordy controversies, success and failure depend > > > > only on the learning of the respective parties. It does > > > > not really prove the truth of the thesis. I can accept > > > > the religion of that party as true, who can jump down > > > > unhurt from the top of yonder mountain." > > > > At these words of the king, all the scholars merely stood > > > > aghast looking at each other, unable to take up the > > > > challenge of the ordeal. But the Brahmana sage, with his > > > > mind concentrated on the Veda, ascended the mountain top, > > > > and declared: "If the Veda is the true scripture, my body > > > > shall not be hurt by this ordeal." With this mighty > > > > declaration, > > > > the sage jumped down from the mountain top, as the spectators > > > > shouted in wonder of the sight: "Oh! Is it king Yayati > > > > coming down from heaven on the expiry of the merits his > > > > grandson had transferred to him!" That best of Brahmanas > > > > now touched the earth as lightly as a bundle of cotton. > > > > Is it any wonder that the Veda protects one with whole- > > > > hearted faith in it? > > > > > > A wonderful teaching. I feel that the world > > > would definitely be a better place if religious > > > fanatics, those who are caught up in the "My way > > > is the best" game, undertook a similar test and > > > proved their "best" claim by leaping from the > > > top of the nearest mountain. > > > > It was kinda surprise to me how "anti-buddhist" > > Vidyaranya is. I myself have nothing against Buddhists. > > FCS, I'm doing anapanasati in addition to TM nowadays. :) > > And a combination ,sort of, of TM and anapana is very > > "powerful". :0 > > I understood that. I was just commenting on the > attitude expressed in the teaching, and in similar > quotes you've posted lately. I, too, am somewhat > shocked by the vehemence with which early leaders > of the Shankaracharya tradition tried to put down > their Buddhist "competition." > > Because that's really the issue. Buddhism was to > the Hindu establishment very much what Catharism > was to the established Roman Catholic Church -- a > competitor that ate into profits. Buddhism rejected > most of the rites and rituals (yagyas, etc.) for > which the priests received money. The very *idea* > of an approach to liberation that could be done on > one's own, without the intervention of clergy (*paid* > clergy) was probably viewed as a real danger, because > it challenged the status quo and economic solvency > of the Hindu tradition. The religious fanatic "We > know the truth and no one else does" stuff is almost > secondary; the primary motivation in all of this > seems to have been financial. > > What's striking me in these quotes is how far *back* > the attitude that many of us find challenging in > the TM movement goes. The tendency to boast about > one's tradition and one's teachings being "the best" > is *clearly* expressed here. The tendency to put > down other traditions is also clearly present. The > reliance on "tests" to "prove" the superiority of > their tradition to all others. The reliance on > flashy siddhis to impress those who are easily > impressed by flashy siddhis and lure them into > making a false connection between flashy powers > and enlightenment or self knowledge. > > The more I read of this stuff, the more I'm inter- > ested in Lama Ole's theory of "jealous gods" being > one of the main problems in spirituality. If there > *are* gods, goddesses, devas, etc., why would anyone > sane want to follow or revere a set of them who are > so lost in their egos that they spend much of their > teaching time putting down "competitor" gods, > goddesses, and devas? But as you pointed out earlier: > > NO ONE could have been clearer > > in life about rejecting the Hindu system than the > > original Buddha. He also rejected to some extent > > the notion of avatars. So it's not exactly surprising that the Hindu system would retaliate. In any case, competition between "jealous gods" doesn't seem to apply here, given that Buddhism doesn't have any gods in the first place, and that what the Brahmana sage was defending wasn't gods per se but rather the Veda, so the competing elements are a bit more abstract. Interestingly, Jesus is said to have been challenged to perform a miraculous feat--to enlist his God to save h
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More Shankara-dig-vijaya: "...as lightly as a bundle of cotton."
On 10/7/05 2:50 AM, "TurquoiseB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A wonderful teaching. I feel that the world > would definitely be a better place if religious > fanatics, those who are caught up in the "My way > is the best" game, undertook a similar test and > proved their "best" claim by leaping from the > top of the nearest mountain. That's a great idea. We could call it the "Cliff jump for World Peace." Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More Shankara-dig-vijaya: "...as lightly as a bundle of cotton."
On 10/7/05 3:27 AM, "cardemaister" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It was kinda surprise to me how "anti-buddhist" > Vidyaranya is. I myself have nothing against Buddhists. > FCS, I'm doing anapanasati in addition to TM nowadays. :) > And a combination ,sort of, of TM and anapana is very > "powerful". :0 As the leading representative of that tradition, presumably since Shankara, I don't find it surprising at all that Vidyaranya keeps the same tradition and view as Shankara himself. Shankara's comment on the Badarayana sutras does the same thing. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More Shankara-dig-vijaya: "...as lightly as a bundle of cotton."
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > (72-77) Having thus humbled the pride of the Buddhists, > > > the Brahmana sage [Skanda as Kumarila Bhatta] now began > > > to expound the meanings of the Vedic Mantras in order > > > to enlighten [Indra as] king Sudhanvan. The king thereupon > > > said, "In wordy controversies, success and failure depend > > > only on the learning of the respective parties. It does > > > not really prove the truth of the thesis. I can accept > > > the religion of that party as true, who can jump down > > > unhurt from the top of yonder mountain." > > > At these words of the king, all the scholars merely stood > > > aghast looking at each other, unable to take up the > > > challenge of the ordeal. But the Brahmana sage, with his > > > mind concentrated on the Veda, ascended the mountain top, > > > and declared: "If the Veda is the true scripture, my body > > > shall not be hurt by this ordeal." With this mighty > > > declaration, > > > the sage jumped down from the mountain top, as the spectators > > > shouted in wonder of the sight: "Oh! Is it king Yayati > > > coming down from heaven on the expiry of the merits his > > > grandson had transferred to him!" That best of Brahmanas > > > now touched the earth as lightly as a bundle of cotton. > > > Is it any wonder that the Veda protects one with whole- > > > hearted faith in it? > > > > A wonderful teaching. I feel that the world > > would definitely be a better place if religious > > fanatics, those who are caught up in the "My way > > is the best" game, undertook a similar test and > > proved their "best" claim by leaping from the > > top of the nearest mountain. > > It was kinda surprise to me how "anti-buddhist" > Vidyaranya is. I myself have nothing against Buddhists. > FCS, I'm doing anapanasati in addition to TM nowadays. :) > And a combination ,sort of, of TM and anapana is very > "powerful". :0 I understood that. I was just commenting on the attitude expressed in the teaching, and in similar quotes you've posted lately. I, too, am somewhat shocked by the vehemence with which early leaders of the Shankaracharya tradition tried to put down their Buddhist "competition." Because that's really the issue. Buddhism was to the Hindu establishment very much what Catharism was to the established Roman Catholic Church -- a competitor that ate into profits. Buddhism rejected most of the rites and rituals (yagyas, etc.) for which the priests received money. The very *idea* of an approach to liberation that could be done on one's own, without the intervention of clergy (*paid* clergy) was probably viewed as a real danger, because it challenged the status quo and economic solvency of the Hindu tradition. The religious fanatic "We know the truth and no one else does" stuff is almost secondary; the primary motivation in all of this seems to have been financial. What's striking me in these quotes is how far *back* the attitude that many of us find challenging in the TM movement goes. The tendency to boast about one's tradition and one's teachings being "the best" is *clearly* expressed here. The tendency to put down other traditions is also clearly present. The reliance on "tests" to "prove" the superiority of their tradition to all others. The reliance on flashy siddhis to impress those who are easily impressed by flashy siddhis and lure them into making a false connection between flashy powers and enlightenment or self knowledge. The more I read of this stuff, the more I'm inter- ested in Lama Ole's theory of "jealous gods" being one of the main problems in spirituality. If there *are* gods, goddesses, devas, etc., why would anyone sane want to follow or revere a set of them who are so lost in their egos that they spend much of their teaching time putting down "competitor" gods, goddesses, and devas? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More Shankara-dig-vijaya: "...as lightly as a bundle of cotton."
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > (72-77) Having thus humbled the pride of the Buddhists, > > the Brahmana sage [Skanda as Kumarila Bhatta] now began > > to expound the meanings of the Vedic Mantras in order > > to enlighten [Indra as] king Sudhanvan. The king thereupon > > said, "In wordy controversies, success and failure depend > > only on the learning of the respective parties. It does > > not really prove the truth of the thesis. I can accept > > the religion of that party as true, who can jump down > > unhurt from the top of yonder mountain." > > At these words of the king, all the scholars merely stood > > aghast looking at each other, unable to take up the > > challenge of the ordeal. But the Brahmana sage, with his > > mind concentrated on the Veda, ascended the mountain top, > > and declared: "If the Veda is the true scripture, my body > > shall not be hurt by this ordeal." With this mighty declaration, > > the sage jumped down from the mountain top, as the spectators > > shouted in wonder of the sight: "Oh! Is it king Yayati > > coming down from heaven on the expiry of the merits his > > grandson had transferred to him!" That best of Brahmanas > > now touched the earth as lightly as a bundle of cotton. > > Is it any wonder that the Veda protects one with whole- > > hearted faith in it? > > A wonderful teaching. I feel that the world > would definitely be a better place if religious > fanatics, those who are caught up in the "My way > is the best" game, undertook a similar test and > proved their "best" claim by leaping from the > top of the nearest mountain. > It was kinda surprise to me how "anti-buddhist" Vidyaranya is. I myself have nothing against Buddhists. FCS, I'm doing anapanasati in addition to TM nowadays. :) And a combination ,sort of, of TM and anapana is very "powerful". :0 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More Shankara-dig-vijaya: "...as lightly as a bundle of cotton."
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > (72-77) Having thus humbled the pride of the Buddhists, > the Brahmana sage [Skanda as Kumarila Bhatta] now began > to expound the meanings of the Vedic Mantras in order > to enlighten [Indra as] king Sudhanvan. The king thereupon > said, "In wordy controversies, success and failure depend > only on the learning of the respective parties. It does > not really prove the truth of the thesis. I can accept > the religion of that party as true, who can jump down > unhurt from the top of yonder mountain." > At these words of the king, all the scholars merely stood > aghast looking at each other, unable to take up the > challenge of the ordeal. But the Brahmana sage, with his > mind concentrated on the Veda, ascended the mountain top, > and declared: "If the Veda is the true scripture, my body > shall not be hurt by this ordeal." With this mighty declaration, > the sage jumped down from the mountain top, as the spectators > shouted in wonder of the sight: "Oh! Is it king Yayati > coming down from heaven on the expiry of the merits his > grandson had transferred to him!" That best of Brahmanas > now touched the earth as lightly as a bundle of cotton. > Is it any wonder that the Veda protects one with whole- > hearted faith in it? A wonderful teaching. I feel that the world would definitely be a better place if religious fanatics, those who are caught up in the "My way is the best" game, undertook a similar test and proved their "best" claim by leaping from the top of the nearest mountain. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
