[FairfieldLife] Mool Mantra
Spoken by Guru Nanak when he became Enlightened. Note: the word "he" in that language of that place and time is not to be construed as the same type of "he" as in Judaeo-Christianity. In the Mool Mantra, "he" refers to the Impersonal Absolute that is (in a way, personal also); but not to be taken literally as a Personality such as Yahweh. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFAXdNoQa2Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFAXdNoQa2Q
[FairfieldLife] Mars Mantra
To strengthen Mars during the current conjunction of Saturn and Mars in Scorpio. The mantra should provide stability and self-control. It should also relieve any muscle aches, pains and stiffness. MANGAL/MARS MANTRA : VERY POWERFUL MANTRA FOR STABILITY AND SELF-CONTROL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdeZEWsxvhI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdeZEWsxvhI MANGAL/MARS MANTRA : VERY POWERFUL MANT... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdeZEWsxvhI ARE YOU READY FOR TRANSFORMATION OF YOUR LIFE ? LOOK NO FURTHER ! FOLLOW THE LINKS BELOW TO CONNECT WITH... View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdeZEWsxvhI Preview by Yahoo
[FairfieldLife] Surya mantra for good luck
Powerful Surya Beej Mantra For Great Luck सूर्य बीज़ मंत्र http://www.tinyurl.com/oqp588u http://www.tinyurl.com/oqp588u Powerful Surya Beej Mantra For Great Luck सूर्य बीज़ मंत... http://www.tinyurl.com/oqp588u Powerful Beej Mantra of Lord Surya has the magnificent power to create a life of abundance fame with prosperity austerity. Use Surya Beej mantra to get... View on www.tinyurl.com http://www.tinyurl.com/oqp588u Preview by Yahoo
Re: [FairfieldLife] Surya mantra for good luck
Very important while reciting this mantra is proper mudra. Both hands, cross
middle finger over index finger while pointing up.
From: yifux...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 3:12 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Surya mantra for good luck
Powerful Surya Beej Mantra For Great Luck सूर्य बीज़ मंत्र
||
|||| Powerful Surya Beej Mantra For Great Luck सूर्य बीज़
मंत... Powerful Beej Mantra of Lord Surya has the magnificent power to create
a life of abundance fame with prosperity austerity. Use Surya Beej mantra
to get...||
| View on www.tinyurl.com |Preview by Yahoo|
||
#yiv3236892267 #yiv3236892267 -- #yiv3236892267ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid
#d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv3236892267
#yiv3236892267ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv3236892267
#yiv3236892267ygrp-mkp #yiv3236892267hd
{color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px
0;}#yiv3236892267 #yiv3236892267ygrp-mkp #yiv3236892267ads
{margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv3236892267 #yiv3236892267ygrp-mkp .yiv3236892267ad
{padding:0 0;}#yiv3236892267 #yiv3236892267ygrp-mkp .yiv3236892267ad p
{margin:0;}#yiv3236892267 #yiv3236892267ygrp-mkp .yiv3236892267ad a
{color:#ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv3236892267 #yiv3236892267ygrp-sponsor
#yiv3236892267ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv3236892267
#yiv3236892267ygrp-sponsor #yiv3236892267ygrp-lc #yiv3236892267hd {margin:10px
0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv3236892267
#yiv3236892267ygrp-sponsor #yiv3236892267ygrp-lc .yiv3236892267ad
{margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv3236892267 #yiv3236892267actions
{font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv3236892267
#yiv3236892267activity
{background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv3236892267
#yiv3236892267activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv3236892267
#yiv3236892267activity span:first-child
{text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv3236892267 #yiv3236892267activity span a
{color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv3236892267 #yiv3236892267activity span
span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv3236892267 #yiv3236892267activity span
.yiv3236892267underline {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3236892267
.yiv3236892267attach
{clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px
0;width:400px;}#yiv3236892267 .yiv3236892267attach div a
{text-decoration:none;}#yiv3236892267 .yiv3236892267attach img
{border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv3236892267 .yiv3236892267attach label
{display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv3236892267 .yiv3236892267attach label a
{text-decoration:none;}#yiv3236892267 blockquote {margin:0 0 0
4px;}#yiv3236892267 .yiv3236892267bold
{font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv3236892267
.yiv3236892267bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv3236892267 dd.yiv3236892267last
p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv3236892267 dd.yiv3236892267last p
span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv3236892267
dd.yiv3236892267last p span.yiv3236892267yshortcuts
{margin-right:0;}#yiv3236892267 div.yiv3236892267attach-table div div a
{text-decoration:none;}#yiv3236892267 div.yiv3236892267attach-table
{width:400px;}#yiv3236892267 div.yiv3236892267file-title a, #yiv3236892267
div.yiv3236892267file-title a:active, #yiv3236892267
div.yiv3236892267file-title a:hover, #yiv3236892267 div.yiv3236892267file-title
a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv3236892267 div.yiv3236892267photo-title a,
#yiv3236892267 div.yiv3236892267photo-title a:active, #yiv3236892267
div.yiv3236892267photo-title a:hover, #yiv3236892267
div.yiv3236892267photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv3236892267
div#yiv3236892267ygrp-mlmsg #yiv3236892267ygrp-msg p a
span.yiv3236892267yshortcuts
{font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv3236892267
.yiv3236892267green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv3236892267 .yiv3236892267MsoNormal
{margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv3236892267 o {font-size:0;}#yiv3236892267
#yiv3236892267photos div {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv3236892267
#yiv3236892267photos div div {border:1px solid
#66;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv3236892267
#yiv3236892267photos div label
{color:#66;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv3236892267
#yiv3236892267reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv3236892267
#yiv3236892267reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv3236892267 .yiv3236892267replbq
{margin:4px;}#yiv3236892267 #yiv3236892267ygrp-actbar div a:first-child
{margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv3236892267 #yiv3236892267ygrp-mlmsg
{font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv3236892267
#yiv3236892267ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv3236892267
#yiv3236892267ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv3236892267 input, #yiv3236892267 textarea
{font:99% Arial
[FairfieldLife] Mahamritunjaya mantra, by Hein Braat
Enchanting; Mahamrityunjaya Mantra (Hinduism) Mantra singer Hein Braat Medicine Buddha's Mantra (Buddhism) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N10A8wKlGAs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N10A8wKlGAs Mahamrityunjaya Mantra (Hinduism) Mantra singer He... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N10A8wKlGAs Mahamrityunjaya Mantra (Hinduism) Medicine Buddha's Mantra (Buddhism) Mantra singer: Hein Braat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahamrityu... View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N10A8wKlGAs Preview by Yahoo On another topic, you may have heard that the Pope elevated 20 more people to Cardinal status. Question: Are any of these new Cardinals FFL members? . Also - very important: How many pants suits does Hillary have and where does she keep them? Which is her favorite color?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shiva mantra to crush bad karma
Translate the mantra for us, please. On 06/04/2014 06:28 PM, yifux...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0_z7umKiQA
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shiva mantra to crush bad karma
Fuck that! :-) From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2014 8:58 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Shiva mantra to crush bad karma Translate the mantra for us, please. On 06/04/2014 06:28 PM, yifux...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0_z7umKiQA
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shiva mantra to crush bad karma
*Holy Mackerel, Batman! **:-D * On 06/05/2014 12:29 PM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Fuck that! :-) *From:* Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Thursday, June 5, 2014 8:58 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Shiva mantra to crush bad karma Translate the mantra for us, please. On 06/04/2014 06:28 PM, yifux...@yahoo.com mailto:yifux...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0_z7umKiQA
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shiva mantra to crush bad karma
All your base are belong to us ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : Holy Mackerel, Batman! :-D On 06/05/2014 12:29 PM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Fuck that! :-) From: Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2014 8:58 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Shiva mantra to crush bad karma Translate the mantra for us, please. On 06/04/2014 06:28 PM, yifuxero@... mailto:yifuxero@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0_z7umKiQA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0_z7umKiQA
[FairfieldLife] Shiva mantra to crush bad karma
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0_z7umKiQA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0_z7umKiQA
[FairfieldLife] Mahamritunjaya mantra
To Shiva
[FairfieldLife] Mahamrityunjaya Mantra ~ Sri Anandamayi Ma
Photos of Sri Anandamayi Ma with a powerful healing mantra in ancient Sanskrit, the Mahamrityunjaya Mantra sung by the Sacred Sound Choir. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkVFNyHv60o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkVFNyHv60o
Re: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity
Herbert Benson called The Relaxation Response prayer early in his career, and expressed concerns that publishing positive research on its effects would get him ostracized. And yet, TM isn't really prayer in any normally accepted sense of the word I'm familiar with. Can you pray, not only to an unknown deity, but without being conscious of the fact that you are praying? L
Re: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity
Mantra of personal god is an interesting phrase. personal god is one way of translating the Yoga Sutra term, ishtadeva, which can also be translated as preferred shining one, which goes back to Maharishi's point about a mantra being an attractive object of attention (which is also taken straight out of the Yoga Sutras).
Re: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity
I would say that devas are labels given to fundamental behaviors and connections that enlightened sages perceived as existing within themselves and perceived as external to themselves as well. Of course, most neuroscientists are pretty confident that the only way we can interpret reality is based on how our brain works, so the fact that devas are internal and external at teh same time is an inescapable consequence of having a nervous system connected to physical sense-organs. The world is as we are simply because we can't even conceive of it being differently, and if an alien species with a sufficiently radically different nervous system and sense organs showed up, there wold literally be no ways to communicate about certain things. Just as kittens who have lost the ability to perceive horizontal bars will bump into horizontal bars no matter what, we (and the aliens) would find certain concepts common to the other species, completely incomprehensible. So devas aren't just about physical laws, but social interactions, intuitions, and any/all other aspects of human existence and human perception. My belief is that they are shining ones because they are so fundamental to how enlightened sages perceive things that their existence as the commonality behind various related things like love, or destruction or creation or whatever leaps out at the sage even before the sage can label the thing that they are looking at/thinking about. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity
Lawson, thanks for the really thorough explanation. I especially like the example of the kittens raised in a unidirectional striped environment then not being able to see the missing direction. Along with that, I'd say that shining ones is simply another reference to how essential to human development is both light and the sense of sight. I also liked your explanation about Dr. Nader's insight about the Ramayana in human physiology. I'll try to find what Ganesh stand for. I think someone asked about that. Maybe just joking but anyway... On Wednesday, March 26, 2014 9:21 AM, lengli...@cox.net lengli...@cox.net wrote: I would say that devas are labels given to fundamental behaviors and connections that enlightened sages perceived as existing within themselves and perceived as external to themselves as well. Of course, most neuroscientists are pretty confident that the only way we can interpret reality is based on how our brain works, so the fact that devas are internal and external at teh same time is an inescapable consequence of having a nervous system connected to physical sense-organs. The world is as we are simply because we can't even conceive of it being differently, and if an alien species with a sufficiently radically different nervous system and sense organs showed up, there wold literally be no ways to communicate about certain things. Just as kittens who have lost the ability to perceive horizontal bars will bump into horizontal bars no matter what, we (and the aliens) would find certain concepts common to the other species, completely incomprehensible. So devas aren't just about physical laws, but social interactions, intuitions, and any/all other aspects of human existence and human perception. My belief is that they are shining ones because they are so fundamental to how enlightened sages perceive things that their existence as the commonality behind various related things like love, or destruction or creation or whatever leaps out at the sage even before the sage can label the thing that they are looking at/thinking about. L
[FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity
Recently I have read here on FFL an argument professed by former TM’ers who stopped practicing because they claimed they were deceived about the meaning of mantras. Their fundamental claim is that a mantra is the name of a Hindu god. The claim is that a mantra, by definition, encapsulates a method for worshiping a Hindu god but that this fact is withheld from practitioners. Within the domain of this argument, these claimants will often quote some text from a Hindu Tantra. These quotes are passages usually assigning a particular deity to a particular mantra and sometimes even assigning a set of deities to each of the Sanskrit letters composing the written forms of the mantra’s sound. This textual assignment is often done quite haphazardly but occasionally is done in the Vedic format of rishi-deva-chhanda. Along with the quoted Tantric text is sometimes a quoted statement by MMY, declaring that a mantra is a sound whose effect is known. This argument quotes the TMO claim that a mantra is used in TM for the beneficial effects it produces in causing the spontaneous refinement of perception. This explanation is then paraded as an example of shameful exploitation of Western ignorance of the Hindu foundation of TM and of any other Indian meditation that does not confess itself as a form of Hindu devotionalism. This devotionalist criticism is further paraded around by pointing to various Indian swamis and cross-eyed yogis who make these claims and arguments themselves. Here are some considerations about these claims: SBS taught in India. MMY began teaching in India before coming to the West. They both taught within the context of the Indian Hindu cultural model. Although they taught in India, where there are many Muslims, they did not present their teaching within a Muslim cultural model. Although Buddhism is from India and many Indians consider Buddha as one of their own, neither SBS nor MMY taught within a Buddhist cultural model. Rather, they taught within the cultural context of their listeners. After coming to the West, MMY continued speaking and teaching within the Indian cultural model - for a while. It was the teaching model established by Vivekananda and Paramahansa Yogananda – partly religious, partly philosophical and partly yogic. However, the cultural context of this form of teachings was the 19th and 20th century paradigm of Western Modernity. When MMY realized the limitations brought by this model and the limitations of religious language here in the West he took a left turn. That divergence left some of his teachers behind - Charlie Lutts being an example. This is one reason that pointing to early religious language by MMY or SBS is an inaccurate over-simplification. As far as the “it is all a deceit” claimants, the two groups that are the most antagonist and strident are the materialists and the religionists. Materialists claim mantras are the mumbo formulas of hindoo gods and that the concept of gods/god is a false idea propounded by power brokers to enslave the masses. This is a truncated Marxist view popular among the half-educated. Contrary to this, the fundamentalist religions claim that mantras are secret demonic traps devised to enslave us to hindoo devils. This is the view of true-believing adherents of the Abrahamic religions – Jews, Christians and Muslims. This is not some fundamentalist diatribe from TV evangelicals. This was the original view of Christians from the second century C.E. forward and was used as an ideological propellant for killing polytheists after Constantine’s ascent to Roman power. What is obvious is that both groups are unable to rationally consider the facts because they are ideologues entrenched in a priori conclusions. One example of this is a clear demarcation about the difference between yoga and religion. Materialists dismiss such an idea because yoga historically emerged within in a Hindu cultural context. Semitic monotheists condemn this idea for the same reason. If we consider the role of yoga, it is apparent that most meditating Westerners are functionally ignorant about the nature, range, depth and complexity of yoga lineages - whether Vedic, Hindu, Buddhist or Jain. Most of them do not know the difference between Vedic, Puranic and Tantric lineages of practice. They also do not understand how these three streams developed and then intertwined into Hindu temple rites. They don't know vidhi from vedi.* (*vidhi is a specific method of puja. Vedi is the altar used in yajña. ) Even more surprising, most swamis and imported yogis are not Pandits, Indologists, or Sanskritists. Very few are formally educated in the yoga traditions of the Indian subcontinent. Most are only trained in asana, pranayam and japa. A little bhakti here, a few Upanishad citations there and om tat sat - I’m a guru. Faced with this, most of us Westerners who meditate are at a disadvantage when presented with
Re: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity
As Mark Landau told me, TM is actually a Hindu devotional practice, so I guess it qualifies as japa. Marshy himself is quoted in the old Hermit inthe House book as saying the mantras are the names of gods. He also equates TM with prayer in the book Meditations of Maharish Mahesh Yogi and given the fact that Marshy told hundreds of lies over decades of time, it ain't much of a stretch to know that he lied about the mantras in many ways including in the early days his claiming that each individual received a carefully chosen mantra when in fact he was giving raam to everyone who came to him. On Tue, 3/25/14, emptyb...@yahoo.com emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 25, 2014, 12:02 PM Recently I have read here on FFL an argument professed by former TM’ers who stopped practicing because they claimed they were deceived about the meaning of mantras. Their fundamental claim is that a mantra is the name of a Hindu god. The claim is that a mantra, by definition, encapsulates a method for worshiping a Hindu god but that this fact is withheld from practitioners. Within the domain of this argument, these claimants will often quote some text from a Hindu Tantra. These quotes are passages usually assigning a particular deity to a particular mantra and sometimes even assigning a set of deities to each of the Sanskrit letters composing the written forms of the mantra’s sound. This textual assignment is often done quite haphazardly but occasionally is done in the Vedic format of rishi-deva-chhanda. Along with the quoted Tantric text is sometimes a quoted statement by MMY, declaring that a mantra is a sound whose effect is known. This argument quotes the TMO claim that a mantra is used in TM for the beneficial effects it produces in causing the spontaneous refinement of perception. This explanation is then paraded as an example of shameful exploitation of Western ignorance of the Hindu foundation of TM and of any other Indian meditation that does not confess itself as a form of Hindu devotionalism. This devotionalist criticism is further paraded around by pointing to various Indian swamis and cross-eyed yogis who make these claims and arguments themselves. Here are some considerations about these claims: SBS taught in India. MMY began teaching in India before coming to the West. They both taught within the context of the Indian Hindu cultural model. Although they taught in India, where there are many Muslims, they did not present their teaching within a Muslim cultural model. Although Buddhism is from India and many Indians consider Buddha as one of their own, neither SBS nor MMY taught within a Buddhist cultural model. Rather, they taught within the cultural context of their listeners. After coming to the West, MMY continued speaking and teaching within the Indian cultural model - for a while. It was the teaching model established by Vivekananda and Paramahansa Yogananda – partly religious, partly philosophical and partly yogic. However, the cultural context of this form of teachings was the 19th and 20th century paradigm of Western Modernity. When MMY realized the limitations brought by this model and the limitations of religious language here in the West he took a left turn. That divergence left some of his teachers behind - Charlie Lutts being an example. This is one reason that pointing to early religious language by MMY or SBS is an inaccurate over-simplification. As far as the “it is all a deceit” claimants, the two groups that are the most antagonist and strident are the materialists and the religionists. Materialists claim mantras are the mumbo formulas of hindoo gods and that the concept of gods/god is a false idea propounded by power brokers to enslave the masses. This is a truncated Marxist view popular among the half-educated. Contrary to this, the fundamentalist religions claim that mantras are secret demonic traps devised to enslave us to hindoo devils. This is the view of true-believing adherents of the Abrahamic religions – Jews, Christians and Muslims. This is not some fundamentalist diatribe from TV evangelicals. This was the original view of Christians from the second century C.E. forward and was used as an ideological propellant for killing polytheists after Constantine’s ascent to Roman power. What is obvious is that both groups are unable to rationally consider the facts because they are ideologues entrenched in a priori conclusions. One example of this is a clear demarcation about the difference between yoga and religion. Materialists dismiss such an idea because yoga historically emerged within in a Hindu
Re: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity
Are you sure Mark is correct, Michael? Because TM is definitely not japa. I would give far more credence to emptybill (who is by no means a TM TB blissninny) than I would to Mark when it comes to technical knowledge about meditation and mantras. What exactly is Maharishi quoted as saying in Hermit in the House? I ask because in Beacon Light of the Himalayas, he says the bija mantras are the mantras of personal gods, not the names of personal gods. But TM critics tend to overlook that distinction. As Mark Landau told me, TM is actually a Hindu devotional practice, so I guess it qualifies as japa. Marshy himself is quoted in the old Hermit inthe House book as saying the mantras are the names of gods. He also equates TM with prayer in the book Meditations of Maharish Mahesh Yogi and given the fact that Marshy told hundreds of lies over decades of time, it ain't much of a stretch to know that he lied about the mantras in many ways including in the early days his claiming that each individual received a carefully chosen mantra when in fact he was giving raam to everyone who came to him. On Tue, 3/25/14, emptybill@... mailto:emptybill@... emptybill@... mailto:emptybill@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 25, 2014, 12:02 PM Recently I have read here on FFL an argument professed by former TM’ers who stopped practicing because they claimed they were deceived about the meaning of mantras. Their fundamental claim is that a mantra is the name of a Hindu god. The claim is that a mantra, by definition, encapsulates a method for worshiping a Hindu god but that this fact is withheld from practitioners. Within the domain of this argument, these claimants will often quote some text from a Hindu Tantra. These quotes are passages usually assigning a particular deity to a particular mantra and sometimes even assigning a set of deities to each of the Sanskrit letters composing the written forms of the mantra’s sound. This textual assignment is often done quite haphazardly but occasionally is done in the Vedic format of rishi-deva-chhanda. Along with the quoted Tantric text is sometimes a quoted statement by MMY, declaring that a mantra is a sound whose effect is known. This argument quotes the TMO claim that a mantra is used in TM for the beneficial effects it produces in causing the spontaneous refinement of perception. This explanation is then paraded as an example of shameful exploitation of Western ignorance of the Hindu foundation of TM and of any other Indian meditation that does not confess itself as a form of Hindu devotionalism. This devotionalist criticism is further paraded around by pointing to various Indian swamis and cross-eyed yogis who make these claims and arguments themselves. Here are some considerations about these claims: SBS taught in India. MMY began teaching in India before coming to the West. They both taught within the context of the Indian Hindu cultural model. Although they taught in India, where there are many Muslims, they did not present their teaching within a Muslim cultural model. Although Buddhism is from India and many Indians consider Buddha as one of their own, neither SBS nor MMY taught within a Buddhist cultural model. Rather, they taught within the cultural context of their listeners. After coming to the West, MMY continued speaking and teaching within the Indian cultural model - for a while. It was the teaching model established by Vivekananda and Paramahansa Yogananda – partly religious, partly philosophical and partly yogic. However, the cultural context of this form of teachings was the 19th and 20th century paradigm of Western Modernity. When MMY realized the limitations brought by this model and the limitations of religious language here in the West he took a left turn. That divergence left some of his teachers behind - Charlie Lutts being an example. This is one reason that pointing to early religious language by MMY or SBS is an inaccurate over-simplification. As far as the “it is all a deceit” claimants, the two groups that are the most antagonist and strident are the materialists and the religionists. Materialists claim mantras are the mumbo formulas of hindoo gods and that the concept of gods/god is a false idea propounded by power brokers to enslave the masses. This is a truncated Marxist view popular among the half-educated. Contrary to this, the fundamentalist religions claim that mantras are secret demonic traps devised to enslave us to hindoo devils. This is the view of true-believing adherents of the Abrahamic religions – Jews, Christians and Muslims. This is not some fundamentalist diatribe from TV evangelicals. This was the original
Re: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity
its a Hindu devotional practice designed to pull the favor of particular goddesses to the practitioner - call it what you like - the TMO does, so you can call it anything that it is not, as is the TMO's tradition. On Tue, 3/25/14, authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 25, 2014, 1:37 PM Are you sure Mark is correct, Michael? Because TM is definitely not japa. I would give far more credence to emptybill (who is by no means a TM TB blissninny) than I would to Mark when it comes to technical knowledge about meditation and mantras. What exactly is Maharishi quoted as saying in Hermit in the House? I ask because in Beacon Light of the Himalayas, he says the bija mantras are the mantras of personal gods, not the names of personal gods. But TM critics tend to overlook that distinction. As Mark Landau told me, TM is actually a Hindu devotional practice, so I guess it qualifies as japa. Marshy himself is quoted in the old Hermit inthe House book as saying the mantras are the names of gods. He also equates TM with prayer in the book Meditations of Maharish Mahesh Yogi and given the fact that Marshy told hundreds of lies over decades of time, it ain't much of a stretch to know that he lied about the mantras in many ways including in the early days his claiming that each individual received a carefully chosen mantra when in fact he was giving raam to everyone who came to him. On Tue, 3/25/14, emptybill@... emptybill@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 25, 2014, 12:02 PM Recently I have read here on FFL an argument professed by former TM’ers who stopped practicing because they claimed they were deceived about the meaning of mantras. Their fundamental claim is that a mantra is the name of a Hindu god. The claim is that a mantra, by definition, encapsulates a method for worshiping a Hindu god but that this fact is withheld from practitioners. Within the domain of this argument, these claimants will often quote some text from a Hindu Tantra. These quotes are passages usually assigning a particular deity to a particular mantra and sometimes even assigning a set of deities to each of the Sanskrit letters composing the written forms of the mantra’s sound. This textual assignment is often done quite haphazardly but occasionally is done in the Vedic format of rishi-deva-chhanda. Along with the quoted Tantric text is sometimes a quoted statement by MMY, declaring that a mantra is a sound whose effect is known. This argument quotes the TMO claim that a mantra is used in TM for the beneficial effects it produces in causing the spontaneous refinement of perception. This explanation is then paraded as an example of shameful exploitation of Western ignorance of the Hindu foundation of TM and of any other Indian meditation that does not confess itself as a form of Hindu devotionalism. This devotionalist criticism is further paraded around by pointing to various Indian swamis and cross-eyed yogis who make these claims and arguments themselves. Here are some considerations about these claims: SBS taught in India. MMY began teaching in India before coming to the West. They both taught within the context of the Indian Hindu cultural model. Although they taught in India, where there are many Muslims, they did not present their teaching within a Muslim cultural model. Although Buddhism is from India and many Indians consider Buddha as one of their own, neither SBS nor MMY taught within a Buddhist cultural model. Rather, they taught within the cultural context of their listeners. After coming to the West, MMY continued speaking and teaching within the Indian cultural model - for a while. It was the teaching model established by Vivekananda and Paramahansa Yogananda – partly religious, partly philosophical and partly yogic. However, the cultural context of this form of teachings was the 19th and 20th century paradigm of Western Modernity. When MMY realized the limitations brought by this model and the limitations of religious language here in the West he took a left turn. That divergence left some of his teachers behind - Charlie Lutts being an example. This is one reason that pointing to early religious language by MMY or SBS is an inaccurate over-simplification. As far as the “it is all a deceit
Re: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity
Of course there are no such things as Hindu gods. They are metaphors for laws of physics. As I have mentioned many times on FFL, this was so beautifully put at a talk given at a performance at a Katakali dance theater in Cochin. I like to call mantras resonance patterns because they resonate with certain areas of the body and cause changes not only in consciousness but also in metabolic functioning. They are indeed as said by the yogi you quote useful tools. I have also provided an example in the terms of the simple beej mantras that are used in ayurveda. The next time folks folks feel a little mentally foggy they should try repeating the mantra hoom or hoong. It's vibration is centered in the area of the brain and will help clear the mind as it is a kapha reducing mantra. On 03/25/2014 05:02 AM, emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: Recently I have read here on FFL an argument professed by former TM’ers who stopped practicing because they claimed they were deceived about the meaning of mantras. Their fundamental claim is that a mantra is the name of a Hindu god. The claim is that a mantra, by definition, encapsulates a method for worshiping a Hindu god but that this fact is withheld from practitioners. Within the domain of this argument, these claimants will often quote some text from a Hindu Tantra. These quotes are passages usually assigning a particular deity to a particular mantra and sometimes even assigning a set of deities to each of the Sanskrit letters composing the written forms of the mantra’s sound. This textual assignment is often done quite haphazardly but occasionally is done in the Vedic format of rishi-deva-chhanda. Along with the quoted Tantric text is sometimes a quoted statement by MMY, declaring that a mantra is a sound whose effect is known. This argument quotes the TMO claim that a mantra is used in TM for the beneficial effects it produces in causing the spontaneous refinement of perception. This explanation is then paraded as an example of shameful exploitation of Western ignorance of the Hindu foundation of TM and of any other Indian meditation that does not confess itself as a form of Hindu devotionalism. This devotionalist criticism is further paraded around by pointing to various Indian swamis and cross-eyed yogis who make these claims and arguments themselves. Here are some considerations about these claims: SBS taught in India. MMY began teaching in India before coming to the West. They both taught within the context of the Indian Hindu cultural model. Although they taught in India, where there are many Muslims, they did not present their teaching within a Muslim cultural model. Although Buddhism is from India and many Indians consider Buddha as one of their own, neither SBS nor MMY taught within a Buddhist cultural model. Rather, they taught within the cultural context of their listeners. After coming to the West, MMY continued speaking and teaching within the Indian cultural model - for a while. It was the teaching model established by Vivekananda and Paramahansa Yogananda – partly religious, partly philosophical and partly yogic. However, the cultural context of this form of teachings was the 19^th and 20^th century paradigm of Western Modernity. When MMY realized the limitations brought by this model and the limitations of religious language here in the West he took a left turn. That divergence left some of his teachers behind - Charlie Lutts being an example. This is one reason that pointing to early religious language by MMY or SBS is an inaccurate over-simplification. As far as the “it is all a deceit” claimants, the two groups that are the most antagonist and strident are the materialists and the religionists. Materialists claim mantras are the mumbo formulas of hindoo gods and that the concept of gods/god is a false idea propounded by power brokers to enslave the masses. This is a truncated Marxist view popular among the half-educated. Contrary to this, the fundamentalist religions claim that mantras are secret demonic traps devised to enslave us to hindoo devils. This is the view of true-believing adherents of the Abrahamic religions – Jews, Christians and Muslims. This is not some fundamentalist diatribe from TV evangelicals. This was the original view of Christians from the second century C.E. forward and was used as an ideological propellant for killing polytheists after Constantine’s ascent to Roman power. What is obvious is that both groups are unable to rationally consider the facts because they are ideologues entrenched in /a priori /conclusions.One example of this is a clear demarcation about the difference between yoga and religion. Materialists dismiss such an idea because yoga historically emerged within in a Hindu cultural context. Semitic monotheists condemn this idea for the same reason. If we consider the role of yoga, it is apparent that most meditating
Re: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity
Devotional practices such as bhakti are also just tools. The ancient yogis needed a way to explain the laws of nature and the universe (physics) to simple folks. So they used metaphors. I was going to mention this in the thread about quiet time because the mantras really aren't names of Hindu gods but just vibratory sounds that have some effect. The problem I have with TM and the way MMY went about the teaching was hiding so much of what was behind it and the fact that the beej mantras given won't actually work for anyone. It's a much broader science than that. And then there is the profiteering issue which even Charlie Lutes had a problem with back in the day. On 03/25/2014 05:15 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: As Mark Landau told me, TM is actually a Hindu devotional practice, so I guess it qualifies as japa. Marshy himself is quoted in the old Hermit inthe House book as saying the mantras are the names of gods. He also equates TM with prayer in the book Meditations of Maharish Mahesh Yogi and given the fact that Marshy told hundreds of lies over decades of time, it ain't much of a stretch to know that he lied about the mantras in many ways including in the early days his claiming that each individual received a carefully chosen mantra when in fact he was giving raam to everyone who came to him.
Re: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity
emptybill, thank you for being so generous with your knowledge and time. It's a good day when I learn something new. Lots of knowledge here that's new for me so a really good day! On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 7:02 AM, emptyb...@yahoo.com emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: Recently I have read here on FFL an argument professed by former TM’ers who stopped practicing because they claimed they were deceived about the meaning of mantras. Their fundamental claim is that a mantra is the name of a Hindu god. The claim is that a mantra, by definition, encapsulates a method for worshiping a Hindu god but that this fact is withheld from practitioners. Within the domain of this argument, these claimants will often quote some text from a Hindu Tantra. These quotes are passages usually assigning a particular deity to a particular mantra and sometimes even assigning a set of deities to each of the Sanskrit letters composing the written forms of the mantra’s sound. This textual assignment is often done quite haphazardly but occasionally is done in the Vedic format of rishi-deva-chhanda. Along with the quoted Tantric text is sometimes a quoted statement by MMY, declaring that a mantra is a sound whose effect is known. This argument quotes the TMO claim that a mantra is used in TM for the beneficial effects it produces in causing the spontaneous refinement of perception. This explanation is then paraded as an example of shameful exploitation of Western ignorance of the Hindu foundation of TM and of any other Indian meditation that does not confess itself as a form of Hindu devotionalism. This devotionalist criticism is further paraded around by pointing to various Indian swamis and cross-eyed yogis who make these claims and arguments themselves. Here are some considerations about these claims: SBS taught in India. MMY began teaching in India before coming to the West. They both taught within the context of the Indian Hindu cultural model. Although they taught in India, where there are many Muslims, they did not present their teaching within a Muslim cultural model. Although Buddhism is from India and many Indians consider Buddha as one of their own, neither SBS nor MMY taught within a Buddhist cultural model. Rather, they taught within the cultural context of their listeners. After coming to the West, MMY continued speaking and teaching within the Indian cultural model - for a while. It was the teaching model established by Vivekananda and Paramahansa Yogananda – partly religious, partly philosophical and partly yogic. However, the cultural context of this form of teachings was the 19th and 20th century paradigm of Western Modernity. When MMY realized the limitations brought by this model and the limitations of religious language here in the West he took a left turn. That divergence left some of his teachers behind - Charlie Lutts being an example. This is one reason that pointing to early religious language by MMY or SBS is an inaccurate over-simplification. As far as the “it is all a deceit” claimants, the two groups that are the most antagonist and strident are the materialists and the religionists. Materialists claim mantras are the mumbo formulas of hindoo gods and that the concept of gods/god is a false idea propounded by power brokers to enslave the masses. This is a truncated Marxist view popular among the half-educated. Contrary to this, the fundamentalist religions claim that mantras are secret demonic traps devised to enslave us to hindoo devils. This is the view of true-believing adherents of the Abrahamic religions – Jews, Christians and Muslims. This is not some fundamentalist diatribe from TV evangelicals. This was the original view of Christians from the second century C.E. forward and was used as an ideological propellant for killing polytheists after Constantine’s ascent to Roman power. What is obvious is that both groups are unable to rationally consider the facts because they are ideologues entrenched in a priori conclusions. One example of this is a clear demarcation about the difference between yoga and religion. Materialists dismiss such an idea because yoga historically emerged within in a Hindu cultural context. Semitic monotheists condemn this idea for the same reason. If we consider the role of yoga, it is apparent that most meditating Westerners are functionally ignorant about the nature, range, depth and complexity of yoga lineages - whether Vedic, Hindu, Buddhist or Jain. Most of them do not know the difference between Vedic, Puranic and Tantric lineages of practice. They also do not understand how these three streams developed and then intertwined into Hindu temple rites. They don't know vidhi from vedi.* (*vidhi is a specific method of puja. Vedi is the altar used in yajña. ) Even more surprising, most swamis and imported yogis are not Pandits, Indologists, or Sanskritists. Very few are formally educated in the yoga traditions of the Indian subcontinent. Most are only
Re: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity
Thanks for this noozguru. Actually I've been feeling the kapha a lot the last week or so, sort of heavy and lethargic. I'll try this and also avoiding any heavy foods. I guess the almond butter will have to wait til December! On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 10:53 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Of course there are no such things as Hindu gods. They are metaphors for laws of physics. As I have mentioned many times on FFL, this was so beautifully put at a talk given at a performance at a Katakali dance theater in Cochin. I like to call mantras resonance patterns because they resonate with certain areas of the body and cause changes not only in consciousness but also in metabolic functioning. They are indeed as said by the yogi you quote useful tools. I have also provided an example in the terms of the simple beej mantras that are used in ayurveda. The next time folks folks feel a little mentally foggy they should try repeating the mantra hoom or hoong. It's vibration is centered in the area of the brain and will help clear the mind as it is a kapha reducing mantra. On 03/25/2014 05:02 AM, emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: Recently I have read here on FFL an argument professed by former TM’ers who stopped practicing because they claimed they were deceived about the meaning of mantras. Their fundamental claim is that a mantra is the name of a Hindu god. The claim is that a mantra, by definition, encapsulates a method for worshiping a Hindu god but that this fact is withheld from practitioners. Within the domain of this argument, these claimants will often quote some text from a Hindu Tantra. These quotes are passages usually assigning a particular deity to a particular mantra and sometimes even assigning a set of deities to each of the Sanskrit letters composing the written forms of the mantra’s sound. This textual assignment is often done quite haphazardly but occasionally is done in the Vedic format of rishi-deva-chhanda. Along with the quoted Tantric text is sometimes a quoted statement by MMY, declaring that a mantra is a sound whose effect is known. This argument quotes the TMO claim that a mantra is used in TM for the beneficial effects it produces in causing the spontaneous refinement of perception. This explanation is then paraded as an example of shameful exploitation of Western ignorance of the Hindu foundation of TM and of any other Indian meditation that does not confess itself as a form of Hindu devotionalism. This devotionalist criticism is further paraded around by pointing to various Indian swamis and cross-eyed yogis who make these claims and arguments themselves. Here are some considerations about these claims: SBS taught in India. MMY began teaching in India before coming to the West. They both taught within the context of the Indian Hindu cultural model. Although they taught in India, where there are many Muslims, they did not present their teaching within a Muslim cultural model. Although Buddhism is from India and many Indians consider Buddha as one of their own, neither SBS nor MMY taught within a Buddhist cultural model. Rather, they taught within the cultural context of their listeners. After coming to the West, MMY continued speaking and teaching within the Indian cultural model - for a while. It was the teaching model established by Vivekananda and Paramahansa Yogananda – partly religious, partly philosophical and partly yogic. However, the cultural context of this form of teachings was the 19th and 20th century paradigm of Western Modernity. When MMY realized the limitations brought by this model and the limitations of religious language here in the West he took a left turn. That divergence left some of his teachers behind - Charlie Lutts being an example. This is one reason that pointing to early religious language by MMY or SBS is an inaccurate over-simplification. As far as the “it is all a deceit” claimants, the two groups that are the most antagonist and strident are the materialists and the religionists. Materialists claim mantras are the mumbo formulas of hindoo gods and that the concept of gods/god is a false idea propounded by power brokers to enslave the masses. This is a truncated Marxist view popular among the half-educated. Contrary to this, the fundamentalist religions claim that mantras are secret demonic traps devised to enslave us to hindoo devils. This is the view of true-believing adherents of the Abrahamic religions – Jews, Christians and Muslims. This is not some fundamentalist diatribe from TV evangelicals. This was the original view of Christians from the second century C.E. forward and was used as an ideological propellant for killing polytheists after Constantine’s ascent to Roman power. What is obvious is that both groups are unable to rationally consider the facts because they are ideologues entrenched in a priori conclusions.
Re: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : Of course there are no such things as Hindu gods. They are metaphors for laws of physics. Can you expand on this a bit? Maybe say which one is doing what, like is Ganesh representing the second law of thermodynamics or gravity for instance. As I have mentioned many times on FFL, this was so beautifully put at a talk given at a performance at a Katakali dance theater in Cochin. I like to call mantras resonance patterns because they resonate with certain areas of the body and cause changes not only in consciousness but also in metabolic functioning. They are indeed as said by the yogi you quote useful tools. I have also provided an example in the terms of the simple beej mantras that are used in ayurveda. The next time folks folks feel a little mentally foggy they should try repeating the mantra hoom or hoong. It's vibration is centered in the area of the brain and will help clear the mind as it is a kapha reducing mantra. On 03/25/2014 05:02 AM, emptybill@... mailto:emptybill@... wrote: Recently I have read here on FFL an argument professed by former TM’ers who stopped practicing because they claimed they were deceived about the meaning of mantras. Their fundamental claim is that a mantra is the name of a Hindu god. The claim is that a mantra, by definition, encapsulates a method for worshiping a Hindu god but that this fact is withheld from practitioners. Within the domain of this argument, these claimants will often quote some text from a Hindu Tantra. These quotes are passages usually assigning a particular deity to a particular mantra and sometimes even assigning a set of deities to each of the Sanskrit letters composing the written forms of the mantra’s sound. This textual assignment is often done quite haphazardly but occasionally is done in the Vedic format of rishi-deva-chhanda. Along with the quoted Tantric text is sometimes a quoted statement by MMY, declaring that a mantra is a sound whose effect is known. This argument quotes the TMO claim that a mantra is used in TM for the beneficial effects it produces in causing the spontaneous refinement of perception. This explanation is then paraded as an example of shameful exploitation of Western ignorance of the Hindu foundation of TM and of any other Indian meditation that does not confess itself as a form of Hindu devotionalism. This devotionalist criticism is further paraded around by pointing to various Indian swamis and cross-eyed yogis who make these claims and arguments themselves. Here are some considerations about these claims: SBS taught in India. MMY began teaching in India before coming to the West. They both taught within the context of the Indian Hindu cultural model. Although they taught in India, where there are many Muslims, they did not present their teaching within a Muslim cultural model. Although Buddhism is from India and many Indians consider Buddha as one of their own, neither SBS nor MMY taught within a Buddhist cultural model. Rather, they taught within the cultural context of their listeners. After coming to the West, MMY continued speaking and teaching within the Indian cultural model - for a while. It was the teaching model established by Vivekananda and Paramahansa Yogananda – partly religious, partly philosophical and partly yogic. However, the cultural context of this form of teachings was the 19th and 20th century paradigm of Western Modernity. When MMY realized the limitations brought by this model and the limitations of religious language here in the West he took a left turn. That divergence left some of his teachers behind - Charlie Lutts being an example. This is one reason that pointing to early religious language by MMY or SBS is an inaccurate over-simplification. As far as the “it is all a deceit” claimants, the two groups that are the most antagonist and strident are the materialists and the religionists. Materialists claim mantras are the mumbo formulas of hindoo gods and that the concept of gods/god is a false idea propounded by power brokers to enslave the masses. This is a truncated Marxist view popular among the half-educated. Contrary to this, the fundamentalist religions claim that mantras are secret demonic traps devised to enslave us to hindoo devils. This is the view of true-believing adherents of the Abrahamic religions – Jews, Christians and Muslims. This is not some fundamentalist diatribe from TV evangelicals. This was the original view of Christians from the second century C.E. forward and was used as an ideological propellant for killing polytheists after Constantine’s ascent to Roman power. What is obvious is that both groups are unable to rationally consider the facts because they are ideologues entrenched in a priori conclusions. One example of this is a clear demarcation about the difference between yoga and religion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity
Spring is kapha time according to ayurveda so it may become high. You can counter balance some of that heaviness with a pinch of ginger, cinnamon and a dash of cloves. I take a pinch of that after a meal and it does away with the craving for a desert. The prevailing paradigm for ayurveda is to return to your constitution and not attempt to balance the doshas. On 03/25/2014 09:00 AM, Share Long wrote: Thanks for this noozguru. Actually I've been feeling the kapha a lot the last week or so, sort of heavy and lethargic. I'll try this and also avoiding any heavy foods. I guess the almond butter will have to wait til December! On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 10:53 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Of course there are no such things as Hindu gods. They are metaphors for laws of physics. As I have mentioned many times on FFL, this was so beautifully put at a talk given at a performance at a Katakali dance theater in Cochin. I like to call mantras resonance patterns because they resonate with certain areas of the body and cause changes not only in consciousness but also in metabolic functioning. They are indeed as said by the yogi you quote useful tools. I have also provided an example in the terms of the simple beej mantras that are used in ayurveda. The next time folks folks feel a little mentally foggy they should try repeating the mantra hoom or hoong. It's vibration is centered in the area of the brain and will help clear the mind as it is a kapha reducing mantra. On 03/25/2014 05:02 AM, emptyb...@yahoo.com mailto:emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: Recently I have read here on FFL an argument professed by former TM’ers who stopped practicing because they claimed they were deceived about the meaning of mantras. Their fundamental claim is that a mantra is the name of a Hindu god. The claim is that a mantra, by definition, encapsulates a method for worshiping a Hindu god but that this fact is withheld from practitioners. Within the domain of this argument, these claimants will often quote some text from a Hindu Tantra. These quotes are passages usually assigning a particular deity to a particular mantra and sometimes even assigning a set of deities to each of the Sanskrit letters composing the written forms of the mantra’s sound. This textual assignment is often done quite haphazardly but occasionally is done in the Vedic format of rishi-deva-chhanda. Along with the quoted Tantric text is sometimes a quoted statement by MMY, declaring that a mantra is a sound whose effect is known. This argument quotes the TMO claim that a mantra is used in TM for the beneficial effects it produces in causing the spontaneous refinement of perception. This explanation is then paraded as an example of shameful exploitation of Western ignorance of the Hindu foundation of TM and of any other Indian meditation that does not confess itself as a form of Hindu devotionalism. This devotionalist criticism is further paraded around by pointing to various Indian swamis and cross-eyed yogis who make these claims and arguments themselves. Here are some considerations about these claims: SBS taught in India. MMY began teaching in India before coming to the West. They both taught within the context of the Indian Hindu cultural model. Although they taught in India, where there are many Muslims, they did not present their teaching within a Muslim cultural model. Although Buddhism is from India and many Indians consider Buddha as one of their own, neither SBS nor MMY taught within a Buddhist cultural model. Rather, they taught within the cultural context of their listeners. After coming to the West, MMY continued speaking and teaching within the Indian cultural model - for a while. It was the teaching model established by Vivekananda and Paramahansa Yogananda – partly religious, partly philosophical and partly yogic. However, the cultural context of this form of teachings was the 19^th and 20^th century paradigm of Western Modernity. When MMY realized the limitations brought by this model and the limitations of religious language here in the West he took a left turn. That divergence left some of his teachers behind - Charlie Lutts being an example. This is one reason that pointing to early religious language by MMY or SBS is an inaccurate over-simplification. As far as the “it is all a deceit” claimants, the two groups that are the most antagonist and strident are the materialists and the religionists. Materialists claim mantras are the mumbo formulas of hindoo gods and that the concept of gods/god is a false idea propounded by power brokers to enslave the masses. This is a truncated Marxist view popular among the half-educated. Contrary to this, the fundamentalist religions claim that mantras are secret demonic traps devised to enslave us to hindoo devils. This is the view of true-believing adherents of the Abrahamic religions – Jews, Christians and Muslims. This
Re: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity
BTW noozguru, I somehow stumbled on that metabolic typing test the other day. Overwhelmingly fast metabolism, what they called a protein type. I'm using sprouts as a light protein in this kapha time... On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 1:32 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Spring is kapha time according to ayurveda so it may become high. You can counter balance some of that heaviness with a pinch of ginger, cinnamon and a dash of cloves. I take a pinch of that after a meal and it does away with the craving for a desert. The prevailing paradigm for ayurveda is to return to your constitution and not attempt to balance the doshas. On 03/25/2014 09:00 AM, Share Long wrote: Thanks for this noozguru. Actually I've been feeling the kapha a lot the last week or so, sort of heavy and lethargic. I'll try this and also avoiding any heavy foods. I guess the almond butter will have to wait til December! On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 10:53 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Of course there are no such things as Hindu gods. They are metaphors for laws of physics. As I have mentioned many times on FFL, this was so beautifully put at a talk given at a performance at a Katakali dance theater in Cochin. I like to call mantras resonance patterns because they resonate with certain areas of the body and cause changes not only in consciousness but also in metabolic functioning. They are indeed as said by the yogi you quote useful tools. I have also provided an example in the terms of the simple beej mantras that are used in ayurveda. The next time folks folks feel a little mentally foggy they should try repeating the mantra hoom or hoong. It's vibration is centered in the area of the brain and will help clear the mind as it is a kapha reducing mantra. On 03/25/2014 05:02 AM, emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: Recently I have read here on FFL an argument professed by former TM’ers who stopped practicing because they claimed they were deceived about the meaning of mantras. Their fundamental claim is that a mantra is the name of a Hindu god. The claim is that a mantra, by definition, encapsulates a method for worshiping a Hindu god but that this fact is withheld from practitioners. Within the domain of this argument, these claimants will often quote some text from a Hindu Tantra. These quotes are passages usually assigning a particular deity to a particular mantra and sometimes even assigning a set of deities to each of the Sanskrit letters composing the written forms of the mantra’s sound. This textual assignment is often done quite haphazardly but occasionally is done in the Vedic format of rishi-deva-chhanda. Along with the quoted Tantric text is sometimes a quoted statement by MMY, declaring that a mantra is a sound whose effect is known. This argument quotes the TMO claim that a mantra is used in TM for the beneficial effects it produces in causing the spontaneous refinement of perception. This explanation is then paraded as an example of shameful exploitation of Western ignorance of the Hindu foundation of TM and of any other Indian meditation that does not confess itself as a form of Hindu devotionalism. This devotionalist criticism is further paraded around by pointing to various Indian swamis and cross-eyed yogis who make these claims and arguments themselves. Here are some considerations about these claims: SBS taught in India. MMY began teaching in India before coming to the West. They both taught within the context of the Indian Hindu cultural model. Although they taught in India, where there are many Muslims, they did not present their teaching within a Muslim cultural model. Although Buddhism is from India and many Indians consider Buddha as one of their own, neither SBS nor MMY taught within a Buddhist cultural model. Rather, they taught within the cultural context of their listeners. After coming to the West, MMY continued speaking and teaching within the Indian cultural model - for a while. It was the teaching model established by Vivekananda and Paramahansa Yogananda – partly religious, partly philosophical and partly yogic. However, the cultural context of this form of teachings was the 19th and 20th century paradigm of Western Modernity. When MMY realized the limitations brought by this model and the limitations of religious language here in the West he took a left turn. That divergence left some of his teachers behind - Charlie Lutts being an example.
Re: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity
On 3/25/2014 7:02 AM, emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: Their fundamental claim is that a mantra is the name of a Hindu god. The claim is that a mantra, by definition, encapsulates a method for worshiping a Hindu god but that this fact is withheld from practitioners. In fact, Bill, no informants have posted a definition of mantra. Until they do so, we don't even know if they understand what it is they are attempting to debate. What is mantra? What is the difference between a mantra and a bija mantra? Definition of mantra: A mantra is a quasi-morpheme or a series of quasi-morphemes, or a series of mixed genuine and quasi-morphemes, arranged in conventional patterns, based on codified esoteric traditions, and passed on from one preceptor to one disciple in the course of a prescribed initiation ritual. Note: Keep in mind that a strict definition allows no exceptions, and does not include purpose.
Re: [FairfieldLife] No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity
I haven't thought about it for some time, but I think at one time at least, I associated the troop of Maruts with clouds or some other phenomenon of nature. And there were other similar connections I made. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : Of course there are no such things as Hindu gods. They are metaphors for laws of physics. Can you expand on this a bit? Maybe say which one is doing what, like is Ganesh representing the second law of thermodynamics or gravity for instance. As I have mentioned many times on FFL, this was so beautifully put at a talk given at a performance at a Katakali dance theater in Cochin. I like to call mantras resonance patterns because they resonate with certain areas of the body and cause changes not only in consciousness but also in metabolic functioning. They are indeed as said by the yogi you quote useful tools. I have also provided an example in the terms of the simple beej mantras that are used in ayurveda. The next time folks folks feel a little mentally foggy they should try repeating the mantra hoom or hoong. It's vibration is centered in the area of the brain and will help clear the mind as it is a kapha reducing mantra. On 03/25/2014 05:02 AM, emptybill@... mailto:emptybill@... wrote: Recently I have read here on FFL an argument professed by former TM’ers who stopped practicing because they claimed they were deceived about the meaning of mantras. Their fundamental claim is that a mantra is the name of a Hindu god. The claim is that a mantra, by definition, encapsulates a method for worshiping a Hindu god but that this fact is withheld from practitioners. Within the domain of this argument, these claimants will often quote some text from a Hindu Tantra. These quotes are passages usually assigning a particular deity to a particular mantra and sometimes even assigning a set of deities to each of the Sanskrit letters composing the written forms of the mantra’s sound. This textual assignment is often done quite haphazardly but occasionally is done in the Vedic format of rishi-deva-chhanda. Along with the quoted Tantric text is sometimes a quoted statement by MMY, declaring that a mantra is a sound whose effect is known. This argument quotes the TMO claim that a mantra is used in TM for the beneficial effects it produces in causing the spontaneous refinement of perception. This explanation is then paraded as an example of shameful exploitation of Western ignorance of the Hindu foundation of TM and of any other Indian meditation that does not confess itself as a form of Hindu devotionalism. This devotionalist criticism is further paraded around by pointing to various Indian swamis and cross-eyed yogis who make these claims and arguments themselves. Here are some considerations about these claims: SBS taught in India. MMY began teaching in India before coming to the West. They both taught within the context of the Indian Hindu cultural model. Although they taught in India, where there are many Muslims, they did not present their teaching within a Muslim cultural model. Although Buddhism is from India and many Indians consider Buddha as one of their own, neither SBS nor MMY taught within a Buddhist cultural model. Rather, they taught within the cultural context of their listeners. After coming to the West, MMY continued speaking and teaching within the Indian cultural model - for a while. It was the teaching model established by Vivekananda and Paramahansa Yogananda – partly religious, partly philosophical and partly yogic. However, the cultural context of this form of teachings was the 19th and 20th century paradigm of Western Modernity. When MMY realized the limitations brought by this model and the limitations of religious language here in the West he took a left turn. That divergence left some of his teachers behind - Charlie Lutts being an example. This is one reason that pointing to early religious language by MMY or SBS is an inaccurate over-simplification. As far as the “it is all a deceit” claimants, the two groups that are the most antagonist and strident are the materialists and the religionists. Materialists claim mantras are the mumbo formulas of hindoo gods and that the concept of gods/god is a false idea propounded by power brokers to enslave the masses. This is a truncated Marxist view popular among the half-educated. Contrary to this, the fundamentalist religions claim that mantras are secret demonic traps devised to enslave us to hindoo devils. This is the view of true-believing adherents of the Abrahamic religions – Jews, Christians and Muslims. This is not some fundamentalist diatribe from TV evangelicals. This was the original view of Christians from the second century C.E. forward and was used as an ideological propellant for killing polytheists
[FairfieldLife] Durga Mantra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5wlqRcTLDA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5wlqRcTLDA
[FairfieldLife] Durga mantra
Traditional Durga mantra. Guru Dev initiated me into this mantra in the dream state in 1986. (brief image, flash of Light over my head, then the mantra). . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5wlqRcTLDA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5wlqRcTLDA ... From all available reports, Guru Dev was a devotee of the Divine Mother (not surprising - since such devotion, regardless of exactly which form of the Divine Mother one addresses, was a part of the Holy Tradition of Shankaracharya.) ... Of course, for reasons of his own, MMY sought to sabotage the devotional component; preferring to appeal to scientists with that ridiculous Quantum Mysticism. (a Wiki expression - basically describes the supposed links between quantum mechanics (and recently string theory hypotheses); and Pure Consciousness.) ... Hagelin is all wet. There is no known causative link between the Unified Field and physics.
[FairfieldLife] Chenrezig mantra
17-th Karmapa chants the Chenrezig mantra: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRVX5cGI9uM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRVX5cGI9uM
[FairfieldLife] Mahamritunjaya Mantra
(popular mantra to Shiva to attain Liberation and offset bad karma): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51dbuDzTxp8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51dbuDzTxp8
[FairfieldLife] Gayatri Mantra Around the World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlUsoWmso9U
[FairfieldLife] Maharishi-Mantra and caste according to the individual's Jyotish
Maharishi stated on the Maharishi Channel before his Mahasamadhi that ideally individual mantras should be chosen on the basis on the individuals Ishtadevata as revealed by their Jyotish chart, it was not possible to institute this during his time on earth but its a direction for future generations. He gave the mantras forms for facilitating transcending. The mechanics of his techniques and mantras cannot be discussed in a public forum without ruining the innocent spontaneity and simplicity of individual's practice. He also stated that each individual's caste should in fact be determined by their individual Jyotish chart and that record is currently being played on the Maharishi Channel 3 this week. http://maharishichannel.in/CHANNEL_3/index.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Maharishi-Mantra and caste according to the individual's Jyotish
the mantras the Chopra meditation instructors give are chosen by jyotish chart, so his assertion that it couldn't be done in his lifetime was a lie. The idea that discussion would ruin the spontaneity and innocence if an individuals practice is ludicrous. From: sri...@ymail.com sri...@ymail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 7:22 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Maharishi-Mantra and caste according to the individual's Jyotish Maharishi stated on the Maharishi Channel before his Mahasamadhi that ideally individual mantras should be chosen on the basis on the individuals Ishtadevata as revealed by their Jyotish chart, it was not possible to institute this during his time on earth but its a direction for future generations. He gave the mantras forms for facilitating transcending. The mechanics of his techniques and mantras cannot be discussed in a public forum without ruining the innocent spontaneity and simplicity of individual's practice. He also stated that each individual's caste should in fact be determined by their individual Jyotish chart and that record is currently being played on the Maharishi Channel 3 this week. http://maharishichannel.in/CHANNEL_3/index.html
[FairfieldLife] Gayatri Mantra Bouquet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxbQkaUw_1Yfeature=related
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Mantra by Swami R'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@... wrote: Use of Mantra · chanting mantra aloud · chanting mantra internally more external (gross) more internal (subtle) · parrot-like repetition · repetition with feeling more external (gross) more internal (subtle) Yee-haw! Prolly one of the most informative posts I've ever read on FFL! :D
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Mantra by Swami R'
'The Soundless Sound of the Mantra, Is the Beginning of the Understanding and the Experience of Brahm'. This 'Wholeness of Awareness' is called 'Brahm'... Brahm is All That There Is...Wholeness is Brahm... This Brahm is Atma... All this Brahm...All This Wholeness is Atma is the Unlimited Soul of the Creator, Brahm'... All This Wholeness of Brahm in my awareness... Allows Brahman Consciousness to be more lively in the 'Collective Consciousness of Humanity'... Brahman Consciousness is 'All That There Is'...nothing is 'Excluded'... Therefore, any thought, emotion, intellectual understanding/perception, ah ha experience of wholenss, is how 'Brahman Consciousnes Becomes Established'... It takes some time, to extablish Brahman Consciousness... It takes some time to allow the wholenss to penetrate all that there is... It's an alowing process, and little by little, the 'Unbounded Awaresess Begins to Overtake the Bounded Emotions, Perceptions, Understandings of the Intellect' and so the 'Final Step Toward Full Enlightenment' comes through continued practice of 'Maintaining the Witnessing Self-Referral Awareness'...along with awareness of boundaries...and thus more and more, allow Beingness to Overflow Throughout this Creation in this space and in this time... Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Mantra by Swami R'
SWAMI R not unknown to FFL since he spent a considerable portion of his life teaching, specifically in the United States and Europe. Swami Rama (Brij Kishore Dhasmana)Shankaracharya of Karvirpitham(From 1949 to 1952)his teachers Bengali Baba, who is disciple of Mahavatar Baba, known as Babaji. Book quoted from www.swamij.com/pdf/swamiramateachings.pdf www.swamij.com/pdf/swamiramateachings.pdf Be happy and fearless. Remember that you are a child of Divinity. Loss and gain cannot even touch your shadow. http://www.sonofaswami.com/bioSwamiRama.html http://www.sonofaswami.com/bioSwamiRama.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@... wrote: Use of Mantra · chanting mantra aloud · chanting mantra internally more external (gross) more internal (subtle) · parrot-like repetition · repetition with feeling more external (gross) more internal (subtle) · repeating mantra with conscious willpower · allowing mantra to arise and repeat itself more external (gross) more internal (subtle) · intentionally repeating mantra fast · allowing mantra to come at its own speed more external (gross) more internal (subtle) · with mala (using the active senses) · without mala (not using the active senses) more external (gross) more internal (subtle) · counting mantras · not counting mantras more external (gross) more internal (subtle) · mantra as word/meaning · mantra as a feeling · mantra as constant awareness · mantra as soundless sound, silence more external (gross) more internal (subtle) · not allowing mantra to lead you to silence · allowing mantra to lead you to silence more external (gross) more internal (subtle) · internally speaking or reciting the mantra · internally listening to or remembering the mantra more external (gross) more internal (subtle) · pushing away thoughts with mantra · allowing thoughts to go through the mind before remembering the mantra more external (gross) more internal (subtle) · approach that japa means reciting mantra · approach that japa means listening to mantra more external (gross) more internal (subtle) · approach that ajapa japa means automatic repetition of mantra · approach that ajapa japa means constant awareness of mantra more external (gross) more internal (subtle) 25 20.12.97 SRmisc1 The subtle aspects of mantra A mantra has four bodies or koshas (sheaths). First, as a word, it has a meaning; another more subtle form is its feeling; still more subtle is a deep, intense and constant awareness or presence, and the fourth or most subtle level of the mantra is soundless sound. Many students continue repeating or muttering their mantra throughout life, but they never attain a state of ajapa japathe state of constant awareness without any effort. Such a student strengthens his awareness, but meditates on the gross level only. The Art of Joyful Living, p. 231 Mantra should be repeated with meaning and feeling; parrot-like repetition is not of much use. Repeating mantra merely with the rosary [mala] and tongue is a very inferior sadhana. It won't do merely to complete a given count Book of Wisdom, p. 33 To go to the subtler aspect of mantra, then you, like the sages, must go to the silence. You go to the silence, you go to the silence, you go to the silence. Path of Fire and Light, Vol. II, pp. 140, 164 My way of using the mantra is different from yours, because I do not want to fool around with the process. I sit down, and I observe my whole being listening to the mantra. I do not remember the mantra or repeat the mantra mentally, because then the mind repeats many things. Instead I make my whole being an ear to hear the mantra, and the mantra is coming from everywhere. This will not happen to you immediately in meditation, but when you have attained or accomplished something, then this will happen to you. The Art of Joyful Living, pp. 127-128 Clearing the clouded mind The mind usually remains clouded, confused, and undisciplined in the external world, where everything seems to move and change. Because the mind itself is confused, even learning how to collect data correctly, or accurately perceive the external world, is a serious problem. For meditators, it becomes possible to collect the data and impressions exactly as they are. Such a person sees things clearly, while in contrast, the clouded mind remains distorted and dissipated. Meditation and Its Practice, pp. 91-92 When the senses are untrained, they will give you distorted input and that creates constant confusion within. If you have accepted that there is confusion in your mind, and if you understand that, then nothing will lead you astray. But if you don't have that understanding, and if you enjoy that confusion, then your mind will create chaos within. That confuses you even more, and there will be no end to your confusion. The Art of Joyful
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Mantra by Swami R'
Robert: Use of Mantra... The Aryan-speakers brought 'Mantra Yoga' to South Asia before 1500 BCE, but 'bija' mantras came much later, after the rise of the bhakti sects. Bija mantras do not occur in the Vedas or in the Brahma Sutra. At some point, we all are going to have to face the historical facts: the bija mantras used in both Tantric Buddhism and in Hindu Yoga are made-up sounds that are found in any common household, heard around the house every day, or from the sounds found in nature. Bija mantras are NOT revealed or cognized or 'seen' by the monad or by some mythical 'rishi'. All mantric practices stem from the ancient shamnistic practice of Oddiyana, that is, Buddhists of Trans-Himalya, hence to India. The Mantrayna was adopted, with modifications, by the Shiva and Vaishanava sects as Hindu tantricism following the Gupta Age. For example, the bija mantra 'phat' is called the astral 'weapon' bija used as an aggressive mantra from the earliest times. The sound of phat, to the Indian ear, conveys the sensation of explosion. According to Bharati, in Hindi, 'phat' is a very common colloquial household term for 'burst, explode', in both intransitive and transitive use, as in a two wheeled, two-stroke, motorized rickshaw, thus a 'phata phata'! From this, a causative verb is formed. The motor-cycle rickshaw in Delhi is called 'phat phata' by its drivers; phatki is a fire-cracker. Once a syllable like this has been accepted into esoteric usage, analogous syllables will readily follow, such as a nickname for God, as in Agnihotra, i.e., fire from the root 'hot'. If the onomatopoetic datum can be linked with part of a meaningful morpheme, a more complex mantra would grow of their combination (116). Phat: (pronounced 'fot') phoneme; Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit; causative verb? 1. crack! 2. snap! 3. pop! 4. Meaningless sound. 5. gibberish. 6. bija mantra - sometimes referred to as the weapon mantra also, in that it destroys obstacles. Read more: http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/ Works cited: 'The Tantric Tradition' by Swami Ageananda Bharati Rider, 1965
[FairfieldLife] Gayatri Mantra (Savitr) 108 Repetitions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxa7Z6NCgqgfeature=share
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Yifu: Mahatma Faqiranand...gave me the Knowledge in 1970... So, you got the Knowledge from Mahatma Fakiranand in Los Angeles. Apparently Fakiranand got into some big trouble later. I told him to be careful, but I guess he didn't understand what I was talking about. Go figure. Let's try to figure out why Turq and Vaj make these claims, but fib about MMY, who never claimed he could levitate. curtisdeltablues: Was he the guru who claimed that for thousands of dollars he could teach anyonehow to fly, Nope, that was Zen Master Rama, who hovered in the air, the guru of Turq. or was he the guy who could make dust appear from his finger tipsafter he wiped his hands on a cloth containing dust? Nope, that was Chogyam Trungpa, who made holy ash appear on the end of his Marlboro Light, the guru of Vaj. No I've got it, he was the guy who was the child guru Maharaj-ji the God-boy-savior of the world! He was never crazy enough to claim that he could teach other people to fly for thousands of dollars, but he was out there. Yep, that was Guru Mahraj-ji, who told people he could teach them to fly for thousands of dollars, the guru of nobody here. I mean really, go figure. That's what I figure - that MMY never claimed to be able to levitate. Really.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
It almost finally feels like Summer here, a nice change this year. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: One of the hottest days - it's still 82 out there in San Ramon. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Hey, its summer time! It was almost 80 in SF today. Might as well leave Vaj lost in his story, and enjoy the weather instead. All this turiya, - enjoyable word - and absolute value, and pure consciousness feels different to each of us, weaving together a group definition of *something* that underlies waking/dreaming/sleep states. Naturally everyone's definition is going to be different, and yet there is a thread of consistency that runs through all of the descriptions of that which supports all. And they have lasted awhile. To argue, as Vaj does, that one eternal experience of That is somehow false, or superior, is nonsensical. Not to say we don't all have our opinions and thoughts and experiences and reflections about turiya. However, how is it possible from any perspective to rule something out unequivocally, when looking at the infinite combinations and flavors of the experience of turiya? Fundamentalist thought is always an easy way out. In any direction. I used to do it a lot, as a way to limit my options and make whatever I was facing comprehensible and manageable. It was just like a large grey wardrobe that I would lug along with me to every thought and action, consulting the volumes within ever so carefully so that I could get the story exactly right. The ego loves to micro-mange everything, which is just fine, as long as it knows its place, subservient to the vast silent cosmos from which it emerges. Once that is seen clearly, everyone gets along fine. Otherwise it is back to the scripts and stories, and who can bear to go back to them anyway? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 11:56 PM, sparaig wrote: Are you aware that the oldest of the Upanishads that mentions turiya explicitly says it isn't just another state, but rather that which gives rise to the other states? It's been a while since I've read Upanishadic literature, but yes that does sound like a typical translation one might hear. Says Vaj, who hasn't a clue, hoping folks will think he's suggesting the typical translation isn't accurate.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Zen Master Rama used to levitate in front of large groups of people, according to TurquoiseB. Denise Evans: And Jesus walked on water. According to the Bible, Simon Magus flew up into the air in a demonstration of magic, but Saint Paul had him fall back doan into a ditch, and Simon hurt his self real bad. Turq made the claim that his guru, Zen Master Rama, used to rise up and hover in front of a crowd. Vaj apparently believes in the Buddhist scriptures, which claim that the Buddha once rose up and hovered over Sravasti. Lots of Tibetan yogis have claimed that their guru could perform levitation, such as Guru Padmasambhava. Let's try to figure out why Turq and Vaj make these claims, but fib about MMY, who never claimed he could levitate. Go figure. For some reason the concept of Maharishi ever being either wild or free seems less likely than him ever flying...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
I nominate this as post of the week! Ravi Yogi: Barry, I have told you many times. Stick to your strengths, if you engage in a discussion on spiritual terms with Judy and Lawson you will always be a loser. Your strength is being a low vibe slime ball bitch (Bhakta). I do love your whorehouse raps, that is in line with being a wannabe tantrika. The trick is then to explore the dark energies, work on the guilt, shame and pain to channel it to pure creative energy. Only when you do become the master of these energies like me can you the really interact with others here. Then like me you will not feel like bullying the likes of Buck but rather other low vibe slime ballers.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Vaj: If it turns out that a concrete layer is NOT at the bottom, that might be interesting. OTOH, if you are attempting to make sure that the house is in good repair, the most important thing to do is make sure the foundation is solid... Not all houses have concrete foundations; some might just have front steps that are solid. Many houses are built on pier and beam, or have dirt floors. Some houses are built of wood or daub and wattle. The most important thing to do is make sure the house is level. In your case, I'm almost sure your dwelling is a house of cards, with many cracks in it - and without a solid foundation. Apparently you've still got a lot of learning and practice to do! You can't even hold a vow to keep the teaching pure, like you promised your Guru Dev. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardwillytexwilliams willytex@... wrote: Let's try to figure out why Turq and Vaj make these claims, but fib about MMY, who never claimed he could levitate. Go figure. What he the guru who claimed that for thousands of dollars he could teach anyone how to fly, or was he the guy who could make dust appear from his finger tips after he wiped his hands on a cloth containing dust? No I've got it, he was the guy who was the child guru Maharaj-ji the God-boy savior of the world! He was never crazy enough to claim that he could teach other people to fly for thousands of dollars but he was out there. Zen Master Rama used to levitate in front of large groups of people, according to TurquoiseB. Denise Evans: And Jesus walked on water. According to the Bible, Simon Magus flew up into the air in a demonstration of magic, but Saint Paul had him fall back doan into a ditch, and Simon hurt his self real bad. Turq made the claim that his guru, Zen Master Rama, used to rise up and hover in front of a crowd. Vaj apparently believes in the Buddhist scriptures, which claim that the Buddha once rose up and hovered over Sravasti. Lots of Tibetan yogis have claimed that their guru could perform levitation, such as Guru Padmasambhava. Let's try to figure out why Turq and Vaj make these claims, but fib about MMY, who never claimed he could levitate. Go figure. For some reason the concept of Maharishi ever being either wild or free seems less likely than him ever flying...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardwillytexwilliams willytex@... wrote: Let's try to figure out why Turq and Vaj make these claims, but fib about MMY, who never claimed he could levitate. Go figure. Was he the guru who claimed that for thousands of dollars he could teach anyonehow to fly, or was he the guy who could make dust appear from his finger tipsafter he wiped his hands on a cloth containing dust? No I've got it, he was the guy who was the child guru Maharaj-ji the God-boy-savior of the world! He was never crazy enough to claim that he could teach other people to fly for thousands of dollars, but he was out there. I mean really, go figure. Zen Master Rama used to levitate in front of large groups of people, according to TurquoiseB. Denise Evans: And Jesus walked on water. According to the Bible, Simon Magus flew up into the air in a demonstration of magic, but Saint Paul had him fall back doan into a ditch, and Simon hurt his self real bad. Turq made the claim that his guru, Zen Master Rama, used to rise up and hover in front of a crowd. Vaj apparently believes in the Buddhist scriptures, which claim that the Buddha once rose up and hovered over Sravasti. Lots of Tibetan yogis have claimed that their guru could perform levitation, such as Guru Padmasambhava. Let's try to figure out why Turq and Vaj make these claims, but fib about MMY, who never claimed he could levitate. Go figure. For some reason the concept of Maharishi ever being either wild or free seems less likely than him ever flying...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Let's try to figure out why Turq and Vaj make these claims, but fib about MMY, who never claimed he could levitate. curtisdeltablues: Was he the guru who claimed that for thousands of dollars he could teach anyonehow to fly, Nope, that was Zen Master Rama, who hovered in the air, the guru of Turq. or was he the guy who could make dust appear from his finger tipsafter he wiped his hands on a cloth containing dust? Nope, that was Chogyam Trungpa, who made holy ash appear on the end of his Marlboro Light, the guru of Vaj. No I've got it, he was the guy who was the child guru Maharaj-ji the God-boy-savior of the world! He was never crazy enough to claim that he could teach other people to fly for thousands of dollars, but he was out there. Yep, that was Guru Mahraj-ji, who told people he could teach them to fly for thousands of dollars, the guru of nobody here. I mean really, go figure. That's what I figure - that MMY never claimed to be able to levitate. Really.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Guru Mahara-ji, right..he (through his initiator Mahatma Faqiranand) gave me the Knowledge in 1970; but I didn't regard him as a Guru. In any event, that was some Powerful Shakti! http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/big17.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardwillytexwilliams willytex@... wrote: Let's try to figure out why Turq and Vaj make these claims, but fib about MMY, who never claimed he could levitate. curtisdeltablues: Was he the guru who claimed that for thousands of dollars he could teach anyonehow to fly, Nope, that was Zen Master Rama, who hovered in the air, the guru of Turq. or was he the guy who could make dust appear from his finger tipsafter he wiped his hands on a cloth containing dust? Nope, that was Chogyam Trungpa, who made holy ash appear on the end of his Marlboro Light, the guru of Vaj. No I've got it, he was the guy who was the child guru Maharaj-ji the God-boy-savior of the world! He was never crazy enough to claim that he could teach other people to fly for thousands of dollars, but he was out there. Yep, that was Guru Mahraj-ji, who told people he could teach them to fly for thousands of dollars, the guru of nobody here. I mean really, go figure. That's what I figure - that MMY never claimed to be able to levitate. Really.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOvZrA_sMuA Maharishi Mahesh Yogi answers: What do you meditate about? Harvard Law School Forum (1970). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@... wrote: There is an awareness that becomes established, and then, contemplation of awareness itself, and it's infinite value, becomes the meditation...mantra and sutra become more or less redundant... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Dear Empty, that's a substantial difference. I wish now I would have known the difference years ago. One of the lady saints coming through some years ago pointed that out too. The difference was like the light came on. Thanks for the clarification between TM process and also may be sitting with the silence. -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Besides the difference in mantra-s, there is a difference in how the two meditations are done. In Sahaj practice, the understanding is that the mantra doesn't go anywhere so we don't actually lose the mantra. Because we were introduced to the mantra at initiation, it is naturally recognized and recollected when we sit down to meditate. However, if during meditation our attention has been absorbed in thoughts for a while without realizing it, then we just return to the mantra by recognizing it again. If we find our attention aware of thoughts occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. Just to rest in silent awareness, although there is no activity or object reference, is in itself meditation because awareness is fundamental while the mind is not. Or as SSRS has said, although you cannot know awareness, because it is not an object, you don't need to do so because you are that very awareness itself prior to mind and to the mind's experiences, whether objective or subjective. .. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The Power of Mantra Contrary to public misinformation, techniques like Transcendental Meditation or Sahaj Samadhi are not based on repetition. They utilize a much subtler science. Om, so are Transcendental Meditation and Sahaj Samadhi effectively the same? The similar practice? Just wondering. Anyone learned both? Anyone here taught both? -B vibrations of consciousness. Mantra carries the mind to the silence that was there before God said, Let there be light. In Sanskrit, mantra means vehicle for the mind: manas - mind, tra - vehicle. Tra is the root of our English suffix, tron. Electrons carry electricity. Positrons carry positivity. Mantras carry mind to its source.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
TurIya is not a fourth state but rather the unconditioned consciousness the Witness State which is a kind substratum for all three states? Is it not the one without a second, with no thing to know it and no other for it to know?It is not in fact not apart from anything, for it forms the substratum of all happenings;fleeting phenomena on it and then sink into it alone, it is your very Being? As far as is it known, turyatita-occurs when the Witness itself dissolves into everything that is witnessed -is not referred to in the major Upanishads. However, some of the minor Upanishads ssems to refer to five states.so? Hyakujo's Koan Ma-tsu asked, What is that? ai-chang said, Wild ducks. Ma-tsu said, Where have they gone? Pai-chang replied, They have flown away. Ma-tsu then twisted Pai-chang's nose, of from which Pai-chang cried out in pain. Ma-tsu said, When have they ever flown away, they have been here since the beginning. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 2:43 PM, sparaig wrote: Ouch, though I note that you didn't address my point. Lawson (the great and powerful) Lawson, only TB TMers really believe that researchers have actually identified Pure Consciousness - because they've found no fourth, just the same ole, same old. So it's probably not worth responding to, as it's obviously a belief you're rather attached to! Certainly it is a belief I am attached to. As to whether or not it is a validatable belief, few people who are not True Believers of one stripe or another have ever examined the evidence, so it is not exactly unexpected that TMing TBs believe it while the TBs in other traditions reject it. L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
How about, All these 'definitions' are just pathetic attempts at describing a continuum of consciousness that can never be described, and The only people who believe that the descriptions given to them are 'true' are spiritual kindergarteners who have never really experienced the states being described. That said, this pathetic attempt is less pathetic than some of Maharishi's pathetic attempts. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merudanda no_reply@... wrote: TurIya is not a fourth state but rather the unconditioned consciousness the Witness State which is a kind substratum for all three states? Is it not the one without a second, with no thing to know it and no other for it to know? It is not in fact not apart from anything, for it forms the substratum of all happenings; fleeting phenomena on it and then sink into it alone, it is your very Being? As far as is it known, turyatita-occurs when the Witness itself dissolves into everything that is witnessed -is not referred to in the major Upanishads. However, some of the minor Upanishads ssems to refer to five states.so? Hyakujo's Koan
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Hi Anointed one ! pathetic? have no problem with that as well as aesthetic, ascetic, athletic, balletic, bathetic, cometic, cosmetic, eidetic, emetic, frenetic, gametic, genetic, hermetic, limnetic, magnetic, mimetic, noetic, Ossetic, paretic, phenetic, phonetic, phyletic, poetic, prophetic, prosthetic, pyretic, splenetic, syncretic, syndetic, synthetic, tonetic, Venetic.. just an idea How about changing the Koan question to Ma-tsuasked, What is that? Pai-chang said, A wild and free flying M/Mahesh /Y. BTW if you check up the word pathetic at WiKipedia you'll get Sacrament (album) and Lamb of God. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathetic lol --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: How about, All these 'definitions' are just pathetic attempts at describing a continuum of consciousness that can never be described, and The only people who believe that the descriptions given to them are 'true' are spiritual kindergarteners who have never really experienced the states being described. That said, this pathetic attempt is less pathetic than some of Maharishi's pathetic attempts. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merudanda no_reply@ wrote: TurIya is not a fourth state but rather the unconditioned consciousness the Witness State which is a kind substratum for all three states? Is it not the one without a second, with no thing to know it and no other for it to know? It is not in fact not apart from anything, for it forms the substratum of all happenings; fleeting phenomena on it and then sink into it alone, it is your very Being? As far as is it known, turyatita-occurs when the Witness itself dissolves into everything that is witnessed -is not referred to in the major Upanishads. However, some of the minor Upanishads ssems to refer to five states.so? Hyakujo's Koan
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merudanda no_reply@... wrote: Hi Anointed one ! Thou annointest my ego with oil. My cup runneth over. :-) pathetic? have no problem with that as well as aesthetic, ascetic, athletic, balletic, bathetic, cometic, cosmetic, eidetic, emetic, frenetic, gametic, genetic, hermetic, limnetic, magnetic, mimetic, noetic, Ossetic, paretic, phenetic, phonetic, phyletic, poetic, prophetic, prosthetic, pyretic, splenetic, syncretic, syndetic, synthetic, tonetic, Venetic.. E) All of the above. I was just riffing on the way that Lawson and Judy spat out definitions as if they really were. It seems to make them feel that they know things, but in me it reveals something very different, the same dependency on pat answers that a kindergartener displays. It just never occurs to the kindergartener that the answer they have been given is less than true, or less than complete. just an idea How about changing the Koan question to Ma-tsuasked, What is that? Pai-chang said, A wild and free flying M/Mahesh /Y. For some reason the concept of Maharishi ever being either wild or free seems less likely than him ever flying. :-) He, after all, was the one who cooked up all these overly simplistic definitions that people are parroting as if they were Truth Incarnate. BTW if you check up the word pathetic at WiKipedia you'll get Sacrament (album) and Lamb of God. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathetic :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: How about, All these 'definitions' are just pathetic attempts at describing a continuum of consciousness that can never be described, and The only people who believe that the descriptions given to them are 'true' are spiritual kindergarteners who have never really experienced the states being described. That said, this pathetic attempt is less pathetic than some of Maharishi's pathetic attempts. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merudanda no_reply@ wrote: TurIya is not a fourth state but rather the unconditioned consciousness the Witness State which is a kind substratum for all three states? Is it not the one without a second, with no thing to know it and no other for it to know? It is not in fact not apart from anything, for it forms the substratum of all happenings; fleeting phenomena on it and then sink into it alone, it is your very Being? As far as is it known, turyatita-occurs when the Witness itself dissolves into everything that is witnessed -is not referred to in the major Upanishads. However, some of the minor Upanishads ssems to refer to five states.so? Hyakujo's Koan
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
thanks you for concept but (lol)sucks??that's a no-no word-is forbidden by my gorgeous kindergarten teacher- to take in my mouth(!) blame on you --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merudanda no_reply@ wrote: Hi Anointed one ! Thou annointest my ego with oil. My cup runneth over. :-) snip For some reason the concept of Maharishi ever being either wild or free seems less likely than him ever flying. :-) your description of your tsakli card shuffle experience or absentia of? mmmh let's fill in the .of the Koan Ma-tsu said, Where have they, M+M+Y,gone? Pai-chang replied, They have flown away. Ma-tsu then twisted Pai-chang's nose, of from which Pai-chang cried out in pain. Ma-tsu said, When have M+M+Y ever flown away, they have been here since the beginning. [:D]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
thanks you for riffing concept but (lol)sucks??that's a no-no word-is forbidden by my gorgeous kindergarten teacher- to take in my mouth(!) blame on you spiritualsolitaire --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merudanda no_reply@ wrote: Hi Anointed one ! Thou annointest my ego with oil. My cup runneth over. :-) snip For some reason the concept of Maharishi ever being either wild or free seems less likely than him ever flying. :-) your description of your tsakli card shuffle experience or absentia of? mmmh let's fill in the .of the Koan Ma-tsu said, Where have they, Maharishi+Maheshwara+Yogi,gone? Pai-chang replied, They have flown away. Ma-tsu then twisted Pai-chang's nose, of from which Pai-chang cried out in pain. Ma-tsu said, When have M+M+Y ever flown away, they have been here since the beginning. [:D]
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
On Aug 22, 2011, at 11:56 PM, sparaig wrote: Are you aware that the oldest of the Upanishads that mentions turiya explicitly says it isn't just another state, but rather that which gives rise to the other states? It's been a while since I've read Upanishadic literature, but yes that does sound like a typical translation one might hear.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
On Aug 23, 2011, at 4:59 AM, turquoiseb wrote: For some reason the concept of Maharishi ever being either wild or free seems less likely than him ever flying. :-) He, after all, was the one who cooked up all these overly simplistic definitions that people are parroting as if they were Truth Incarnate. Musician Paul McCartney was with The Beatles in Rishikesh in 1968 for TM training and he asked the Maharishi at the time about levitation. According to McCartney, the Maharishi said he had never done it, did not know anyone who had, and was unable to find anyone to demonstrate it.[53]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:38 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:04 PM, sparaig wrote: I still haven't seen any research, whether, from Shambhala Mountain Center Study, or other studies, that describes the physiological correlates of pure consciousness measured during the practice of Buddhist techniques. Pure consciousness is a TM creation, so I don't expect you'll find such silliness anywhere else. The primary examples of higher states of consciousness are for samadhi in both the Hindu Patanjali traditions and the Buddhist traditions. Both share the same EEG hallmarks BTW. Both represent fourth states, that is states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL What does you think turiya means? Duh, why do you think I keep using the word fourth? BZZT. If you knew what turiya/fourth meant, you wouldn't define it as states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping. You'd say, Both represent the 'fourth,' which underlies the states of waking, dreaming and sleeping. And that's not just TM lingo; that's from the Upanishads.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Pure consciousness is a TM creation... sparaig: What does you think turiya means? Shiva, or Mahadeva represents Brahman, the Absolute pure consciousness which is beyond all names, forms and activities... Source: 'Tantra' The Path of Ecstasy by Georg Feuerstein Shambhala, 1998 Pages 7084
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: How about, All these 'definitions' are just pathetic attempts at describing a continuum of consciousness that can never be described, and The only people who believe that the descriptions given to them are 'true' are spiritual kindergarteners who have never really experienced the states being described. And yet, the people who *have* experienced the states being described recognize the descriptions as being attempts to describe what they have experienced. They also recognize that no verbal description can be any more than suggestive, because language is dualistic and the experience is of wholeness, oneness.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
For some reason the concept of Maharishi ever being either wild or free seems less likely than him ever flying... Vaj: According to McCartney, the Maharishi said he had never done it, did not know anyone who had, and was unable to find anyone to demonstrate it... Zen Master Rama used to levitate in front of large groups of people, according to TurquoiseB. Also, in the Buddhist scriptures, it is said that the Buddha levitiated over Sravasti on at least one occasion. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Even worse: Both represent 'fourth' states, plural, as if there was more than one turiya, one for Patanjali and one for Buddhism. Just gibberish... sparaig: I remain unconvinced that what most Buddhists call calm abiding is really pure consciousness that we talk about... Most of the TMers on FFL know that researchers have actually identified Pure Consciousness, because Vaj cited a study by Alan Wallace that proves that there is such a state, citing the Shambhala Mountain Center study. And, all the FFL TMers here now know that calm abiding is just like TM practice, because I've practiced both, and I posted this on FFL. There's no reason a TMer can't calmly abide and reach Pure Consciousness, just like the Trungpa practitioners do. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/287357
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: snip I was just riffing on the way that Lawson and Judy spat out definitions as if they really were. It seems to make them feel that they know things, but in me it reveals something very different, the same dependency on pat answers that a kindergartener displays. It just never occurs to the kindergartener that the answer they have been given is less than true, or less than complete. Au contraire, Pierre. See my previous post. As usual, your attempts at mind-reading stink up the place. For those who have had the experience, it's obvious that the descriptions are less than true. As you say, there's no way to give a complete verbal description of pure consciousness. But that doesn't mean nothing valid can be said about it to distinguish it from other experiences, that it can't be pointed to verbally. Such pointings go back at least as far as the Mandukya Upanishad.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
And Jesus walked on water. --- On Tue, 8/23/11, richardwillytexwilliams willy...@yahoo.com wrote: From: richardwillytexwilliams willy...@yahoo.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2011, 6:38 AM For some reason the concept of Maharishi ever being either wild or free seems less likely than him ever flying... Vaj: According to McCartney, the Maharishi said he had never done it, did not know anyone who had, and was unable to find anyone to demonstrate it... Zen Master Rama used to levitate in front of large groups of people, according to TurquoiseB. Also, in the Buddhist scriptures, it is said that the Buddha levitiated over Sravasti on at least one occasion. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: How about, All these 'definitions' are just pathetic attempts at describing a continuum of consciousness that can never be described, and The only people who believe that the descriptions given to them are 'true' are spiritual kindergarteners who have never really experienced the states being described. And yet, the people who *have* experienced the states being described recognize the descriptions as being attempts to describe what they have experienced. They also recognize that no verbal description can be any more than suggestive, because language is dualistic and the experience is of wholeness, oneness. Well during meditation, no description is possible for many reasons. The least philosophical is simply that the episodes of PC are associated with marked changes in EEG and breathing that revert towards normal before the subject is able to press a button signifying that they have noticed the state, so any attempt to describe the pure state is certainly based only a memory of the state and a relatively remote memory, at that. The fact that descriptions require language, and PC is defined as being without language, kinda makes it impossible to describe, also. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
On Aug 23, 2011, at 2:39 PM, sparaig wrote: Well during meditation, no description is possible for many reasons. The least philosophical is simply that the episodes of PC are associated with marked changes in EEG and breathing that revert towards normal before the subject is able to press a button signifying that they have noticed the state, so any attempt to describe the pure state is certainly based only a memory of the state and a relatively remote memory, at that. The fact that descriptions require language, and PC is defined as being without language, kinda makes it impossible to describe, also. The fact that a unbiased observer would see nothing remarkable EEG- wise beyond what's normally seen in waking, sleeping or dreaming would be the first indicator that there's nothing extraordinary going on - just the relaxation effects we're familiar with. However if an unbiased observer was to see a meditator in which some unknown state which was quite remarkable EEG-wise, then some extraordinary state not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping might be going on. The former would be like TMers: nothing extraordinary whatsoever is going on, except to a handful of TM-biased researchers; the latter would be actual yogis of the Patanjali tradition and Buddhist yogis. Both show remarkable features unseen in normal humans. Outside of meditation it is as if this signature is dyed into brains, the same fourth state EEG signature pervades waking, sleeping and dreaming. It can be described as it never really leaves.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: snip The fact that a unbiased observer would see nothing remarkable EEG-wise How would you, of all people, know what an unbiased observer would see? beyond what's normally seen in waking, sleeping or dreaming would be the first indicator that there's nothing extraordinary going on - just the relaxation effects we're familiar with. However if an unbiased observer was to see a meditator in which some unknown state which was quite remarkable EEG-wise, then some extraordinary state not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping might be going on. The former would be like TMers: nothing extraordinary whatsoever is going on, except to a handful of TM- biased researchers; And the meditators themselves, of course. the latter would be actual yogis of the Patanjali tradition and Buddhist yogis. Both show remarkable features unseen in normal humans. Outside of meditation it is as if this signature is dyed into brains, the same fourth state EEG signature pervades waking, sleeping and dreaming. Since the fourth (not a state, BTW) pervades waking, sleeping, and dreaming in all human beings all the time, what you describe sounds very much like nothing extraordinary is going on. It can be described as it never really leaves.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 11:56 PM, sparaig wrote: Are you aware that the oldest of the Upanishads that mentions turiya explicitly says it isn't just another state, but rather that which gives rise to the other states? It's been a while since I've read Upanishadic literature, but yes that does sound like a typical translation one might hear. Says Vaj, who hasn't a clue, hoping folks will think he's suggesting the typical translation isn't accurate.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Barry, I have told you many times. Stick to your strengths, if you engage in a discussion on spiritual terms with Judy and Lawson you will always be a loser. Your strength is being a low vibe slime ball bitch (Bhakta). I do love your whorehouse raps, that is in line with being a wannabe tantrika. The trick is then to explore the dark energies, work on the guilt, shame and pain to channel it to pure creative energy. Only when you do become the master of these energies like me can you the really interact with others here. Then like me you will not feel like bullying the likes of Buck but rather other low vibe slime ballers. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: How about, All these 'definitions' are just pathetic attempts at describing a continuum of consciousness that can never be described, and The only people who believe that the descriptions given to them are 'true' are spiritual kindergarteners who have never really experienced the states being described. That said, this pathetic attempt is less pathetic than some of Maharishi's pathetic attempts. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merudanda no_reply@ wrote: TurIya is not a fourth state but rather the unconditioned consciousness the Witness State which is a kind substratum for all three states? Is it not the one without a second, with no thing to know it and no other for it to know? It is not in fact not apart from anything, for it forms the substratum of all happenings; fleeting phenomena on it and then sink into it alone, it is your very Being? As far as is it known, turyatita-occurs when the Witness itself dissolves into everything that is witnessed -is not referred to in the major Upanishads. However, some of the minor Upanishads ssems to refer to five states.so? Hyakujo's Koan
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Well... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: [...] The fact that a unbiased observer would see nothing remarkable EEG- wise beyond what's normally seen in waking, sleeping or dreaming would be the first indicator that there's nothing extraordinary going on - just the relaxation effects we're familiar with. However if an unbiased observer was to see a meditator in which some unknown state which was quite remarkable EEG-wise, then some extraordinary state not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping might be going on. Except that it isn't extraordinary. It is merely the refinement of the basis of the three relative states to the core essential. The degree of coherence in specific areas might be unusual, but relaxed alertness-without-content is hardly an extra-ordinary thing. It is the sine qua non of everything that involves alertness. Now, being able to measure alertness in its pure state might be unusual, but it shouldn't be surprising that the pure form of what is the basis of all relative forms of consciousness turns out to have something mundane and in *common* with all of them. That's kinda a given, if it really is the basis for everything else. I mean, are you really going to take someone seriously who says: OMG! No matter where in the house I dig, its got this concrete layer at the bottom... How amazing! If it turns out that a concrete layer is NOT at the bottom, that might be interesting. OTOH, if you are attempting to make sure that the house is in good repair, the most important thing to do is make sure the foundation is solid. The former would be like TMers: nothing extraordinary whatsoever is going on, except to a handful of TM-biased researchers; the latter would be actual yogis of the Patanjali tradition and Buddhist yogis. Both show remarkable features unseen in normal humans. Outside of meditation it is as if this signature is dyed into brains, the same fourth state EEG signature pervades waking, sleeping and dreaming. It can be described as it never really leaves. The signature is already there. It is merely not obvious because the nervous system is generally damaged and the idle is set too high. Repair the damage/reset the idle and it becomes totally obvious. L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Hey, its summer time! It was almost 80 in SF today. Might as well leave Vaj lost in his story, and enjoy the weather instead. All this turiya, - enjoyable word - and absolute value, and pure consciousness feels different to each of us, weaving together a group definition of *something* that underlies waking/dreaming/sleep states. Naturally everyone's definition is going to be different, and yet there is a thread of consistency that runs through all of the descriptions of that which supports all. And they have lasted awhile. To argue, as Vaj does, that one eternal experience of That is somehow false, or superior, is nonsensical. Not to say we don't all have our opinions and thoughts and experiences and reflections about turiya. However, how is it possible from any perspective to rule something out unequivocally, when looking at the infinite combinations and flavors of the experience of turiya? Fundamentalist thought is always an easy way out. In any direction. I used to do it a lot, as a way to limit my options and make whatever I was facing comprehensible and manageable. It was just like a large grey wardrobe that I would lug along with me to every thought and action, consulting the volumes within ever so carefully so that I could get the story exactly right. The ego loves to micro-mange everything, which is just fine, as long as it knows its place, subservient to the vast silent cosmos from which it emerges. Once that is seen clearly, everyone gets along fine. Otherwise it is back to the scripts and stories, and who can bear to go back to them anyway? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 11:56 PM, sparaig wrote: Are you aware that the oldest of the Upanishads that mentions turiya explicitly says it isn't just another state, but rather that which gives rise to the other states? It's been a while since I've read Upanishadic literature, but yes that does sound like a typical translation one might hear. Says Vaj, who hasn't a clue, hoping folks will think he's suggesting the typical translation isn't accurate.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
On Aug 23, 2011, at 5:59 PM, sparaig wrote: Well... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: [...] The fact that a unbiased observer would see nothing remarkable EEG- wise beyond what's normally seen in waking, sleeping or dreaming would be the first indicator that there's nothing extraordinary going on - just the relaxation effects we're familiar with. However if an unbiased observer was to see a meditator in which some unknown state which was quite remarkable EEG-wise, then some extraordinary state not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping might be going on. Except that it isn't extraordinary. It is merely the refinement of the basis of the three relative states to the core essential. The degree of coherence in specific areas might be unusual, but relaxed alertness-without-content is hardly an extra-ordinary thing. It is the sine qua non of everything that involves alertness. Now, being able to measure alertness in its pure state might be unusual, but it shouldn't be surprising that the pure form of what is the basis of all relative forms of consciousness turns out to have something mundane and in *common* with all of them. That's kinda a given, if it really is the basis for everything else. I mean, are you really going to take someone seriously who says: OMG! No matter where in the house I dig, its got this concrete layer at the bottom... How amazing! If it turns out that a concrete layer is NOT at the bottom, that might be interesting. OTOH, if you are attempting to make sure that the house is in good repair, the most important thing to do is make sure the foundation is solid. The former would be like TMers: nothing extraordinary whatsoever is going on, except to a handful of TM-biased researchers; the latter would be actual yogis of the Patanjali tradition and Buddhist yogis. Both show remarkable features unseen in normal humans. Outside of meditation it is as if this signature is dyed into brains, the same fourth state EEG signature pervades waking, sleeping and dreaming. It can be described as it never really leaves. The signature is already there. It is merely not obvious because the nervous system is generally damaged and the idle is set too high. Repair the damage/reset the idle and it becomes totally obvious. This is just desperate, specious theorizing Lawson - esp. since in this case, the first time it was seen was in lineal Patanjali yogis...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
One of the hottest days - it's still 82 out there in San Ramon. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Hey, its summer time! It was almost 80 in SF today. Might as well leave Vaj lost in his story, and enjoy the weather instead. All this turiya, - enjoyable word - and absolute value, and pure consciousness feels different to each of us, weaving together a group definition of *something* that underlies waking/dreaming/sleep states. Naturally everyone's definition is going to be different, and yet there is a thread of consistency that runs through all of the descriptions of that which supports all. And they have lasted awhile. To argue, as Vaj does, that one eternal experience of That is somehow false, or superior, is nonsensical. Not to say we don't all have our opinions and thoughts and experiences and reflections about turiya. However, how is it possible from any perspective to rule something out unequivocally, when looking at the infinite combinations and flavors of the experience of turiya? Fundamentalist thought is always an easy way out. In any direction. I used to do it a lot, as a way to limit my options and make whatever I was facing comprehensible and manageable. It was just like a large grey wardrobe that I would lug along with me to every thought and action, consulting the volumes within ever so carefully so that I could get the story exactly right. The ego loves to micro-mange everything, which is just fine, as long as it knows its place, subservient to the vast silent cosmos from which it emerges. Once that is seen clearly, everyone gets along fine. Otherwise it is back to the scripts and stories, and who can bear to go back to them anyway? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 11:56 PM, sparaig wrote: Are you aware that the oldest of the Upanishads that mentions turiya explicitly says it isn't just another state, but rather that which gives rise to the other states? It's been a while since I've read Upanishadic literature, but yes that does sound like a typical translation one might hear. Says Vaj, who hasn't a clue, hoping folks will think he's suggesting the typical translation isn't accurate.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: This explanation conflates the difference between mind/consciousness (citta) and awareness (cit) or, if you prefer, between drishti-matra and buddhi. Do you, perchance, mean 'dRshi-maatra'? draSTaa dRshi-maatraH shuddho 'pi pratyayaanupashyaH. Taimni: The Seer is pure consciousness but though pure, appears to see through the mind. (II 20)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
L This topic is about the distinction between the two techniques and how to highlight any differences between them. It is factually based. It is not a football contest of my technique is better than your technique and most certainly is not a thread for you to celebrate your visibly manifest and aggrandized self-image. You're just playing Sanskrit semantic games to avoid admitting that I am correct. Believe it or not, this thread is not about you. It started as a factual examination of the differences between these two similar but slightly variant techniques. Obviously your conclusions preceded your attempt to discuss this topic. Therefore those conclusions cannot validate any sequence of reasoning you introduce. But, by the way, I must agree with you. Empirical research using instrumentation to attempt to measure meditation has only been done over the past few years. Since no previous empirical research existed for those many centuries, all that pseudo-knowledge was really just mumbo-jumbo. But, because of you, it can now be told it was all just a bunch of belief systems targeting uneducated Indians and naive Westerners. Although propagated by gurus and jokies needing to get hold of bags of rupees, you have finally struck a blow for truth, goodness and ultimate certitude. Congratulations on your fine work. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: You said: If we *find our attention aware of thoughts* occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. You're just playing Sanskrit semantic games to avoid admitting that I am correct. REgardless, the proof is in the pudding. After 25 years of people practice the techniques that Sri Sri Ravi Shankar teaches, where is the research on people showing pure consciousness? L
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Yep, Patanjali sez dRshi-maatra . My mistake. Thanks for the correction. The seer (is) sheer seeing (and) although pure (shuddha) beholds (anupashya) ideas (pratyaya). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: This explanation conflates the difference between mind/consciousness (citta) and awareness (cit) or, if you prefer, between drishti-matra and buddhi. Do you, perchance, mean 'dRshi-maatra'? draSTaa dRshi-maatraH shuddho 'pi pratyayaanupashyaH. Taimni: The Seer is pure consciousness but though pure, appears to see through the mind. (II 20)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Ouch, though I note that you didn't address my point. Lawson (the great and powerful) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: L This topic is about the distinction between the two techniques and how to highlight any differences between them. It is factually based. It is not a football contest of my technique is better than your technique and most certainly is not a thread for you to celebrate your visibly manifest and aggrandized self-image. You're just playing Sanskrit semantic games to avoid admitting that I am correct. Believe it or not, this thread is not about you. It started as a factual examination of the differences between these two similar but slightly variant techniques. Obviously your conclusions preceded your attempt to discuss this topic. Therefore those conclusions cannot validate any sequence of reasoning you introduce. But, by the way, I must agree with you. Empirical research using instrumentation to attempt to measure meditation has only been done over the past few years. Since no previous empirical research existed for those many centuries, all that pseudo-knowledge was really just mumbo-jumbo. But, because of you, it can now be told � it was all just a bunch of belief systems targeting uneducated Indians and naive Westerners. Although propagated by gurus and jokies needing to get hold of bags of rupees, you have finally struck a blow for truth, goodness and ultimate certitude. Congratulations on your fine work. ������������������������������� --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: You said: If we *find our attention aware of thoughts* occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. You're just playing Sanskrit semantic games to avoid admitting that I am correct. REgardless, the proof is in the pudding. After 25 years of people practice the techniques that Sri Sri Ravi Shankar teaches, where is the research on people showing pure consciousness? L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
On Aug 22, 2011, at 2:43 PM, sparaig wrote: Ouch, though I note that you didn't address my point. Lawson (the great and powerful) Lawson, only TB TMers really believe that researchers have actually identified Pure Consciousness - because they've found no fourth, just the same ole, same old. So it's probably not worth responding to, as it's obviously a belief you're rather attached to!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Vaj: ...only TB TMers really believe that researchers have actually identified Pure Consciousness... Most of the TMers on FFL know that researchers have actually identified Pure Consciousness, because you cited a study by Alan Wallace that proves that there is such a state, citing the Shambhala Mountain Center study. And, all the FFL TMers here now know that calm abiding is just like TM practice, because I've practiced both, and said posted this on FFL. There's no reason a TMer can't calmly abide and reach Pure Consciousness, just like the Trungpa practitioners do. That is, unless the Wallace study was bunk, right?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 2:43 PM, sparaig wrote: Ouch, though I note that you didn't address my point. Lawson (the great and powerful) Lawson, only TB TMers really believe that researchers have actually identified Pure Consciousness - because they've found no fourth, just the same ole, same old. So it's probably not worth responding to, as it's obviously a belief you're rather attached to! Certainly it is a belief I am attached to. As to whether or not it is a validatable belief, few people who are not True Believers of one stripe or another have ever examined the evidence, so it is not exactly unexpected that TMing TBs believe it while the TBs in other traditions reject it. L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
I still haven't seen any research, whether, from Shambhala Mountain Center Study, or other studies, that describes the physiological correlates of pure consciousness measured during the practice of Buddhist techniques. L. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardwillytexwilliams willytex@... wrote: Vaj: ...only TB TMers really believe that researchers have actually identified Pure Consciousness... Most of the TMers on FFL know that researchers have actually identified Pure Consciousness, because you cited a study by Alan Wallace that proves that there is such a state, citing the Shambhala Mountain Center study. And, all the FFL TMers here now know that calm abiding is just like TM practice, because I've practiced both, and said posted this on FFL. There's no reason a TMer can't calmly abide and reach Pure Consciousness, just like the Trungpa practitioners do. That is, unless the Wallace study was bunk, right?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:04 PM, sparaig wrote: I still haven't seen any research, whether, from Shambhala Mountain Center Study, or other studies, that describes the physiological correlates of pure consciousness measured during the practice of Buddhist techniques. Pure consciousness is a TM creation, so I don't expect you'll find such silliness anywhere else. The primary examples of higher states of consciousness are for samadhi in both the Hindu Patanjali traditions and the Buddhist traditions. Both share the same EEG hallmarks BTW. Both represent fourth states, that is states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL What does you think turiya means? Jeeze. What a maroon. L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:04 PM, sparaig wrote: I still haven't seen any research, whether, from Shambhala Mountain Center Study, or other studies, that describes the physiological correlates of pure consciousness measured during the practice of Buddhist techniques. Pure consciousness is a TM creation Uh, no, it most certainly is not. What a nitwit assertion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-02-06/vintage-wisdom/28005396_1_consciousness-mindfulness-universal-flux http://tinyurl.com/3d8jrj4 http://upanishads.pureconsciousness.org/ , so I don't expect you'll find such silliness anywhere else. Only about 620,000 Google hits on pure consciousness that don't refer either to Maharishi or to Transcendental Meditation. The primary examples of higher states of consciousness are for samadhi in both the Hindu Patanjali traditions and the Buddhist traditions. Both share the same EEG hallmarks BTW. Both represent fourth states, that is states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
The most striking silliness is his assertion that real turiya is about states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping... I guess, insomuch as you normally don't notice the movie screen while watching the movie, that you could say this, but the way he words it implies something entirely different than: that which is what waking, dreaming or sleeping are projected upon. L. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:04 PM, sparaig wrote: I still haven't seen any research, whether, from Shambhala Mountain Center Study, or other studies, that describes the physiological correlates of pure consciousness measured during the practice of Buddhist techniques. Pure consciousness is a TM creation Uh, no, it most certainly is not. What a nitwit assertion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-02-06/vintage-wisdom/28005396_1_consciousness-mindfulness-universal-flux http://tinyurl.com/3d8jrj4 http://upanishads.pureconsciousness.org/ , so I don't expect you'll find such silliness anywhere else. Only about 620,000 Google hits on pure consciousness that don't refer either to Maharishi or to Transcendental Meditation. The primary examples of higher states of consciousness are for samadhi in both the Hindu Patanjali traditions and the Buddhist traditions. Both share the same EEG hallmarks BTW. Both represent fourth states, that is states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: The most striking silliness is his assertion that real turiya is about states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping... I guess, insomuch as you normally don't notice the movie screen while watching the movie, that you could say this, but the way he words it implies something entirely different than: that which is what waking, dreaming or sleeping are projected upon. Even worse: Both represent 'fourth' states, plural, as if there was more than one turiya, one for Patanjali and one for Buddhism. Just gibberish. And turiya isn't a state in any case; as you note, it's what underlies all states. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:04 PM, sparaig wrote: I still haven't seen any research, whether, from Shambhala Mountain Center Study, or other studies, that describes the physiological correlates of pure consciousness measured during the practice of Buddhist techniques. Pure consciousness is a TM creation Uh, no, it most certainly is not. What a nitwit assertion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-02-06/vintage-wisdom/28005396_1_consciousness-mindfulness-universal-flux http://tinyurl.com/3d8jrj4 http://upanishads.pureconsciousness.org/ , so I don't expect you'll find such silliness anywhere else. Only about 620,000 Google hits on pure consciousness that don't refer either to Maharishi or to Transcendental Meditation. The primary examples of higher states of consciousness are for samadhi in both the Hindu Patanjali traditions and the Buddhist traditions. Both share the same EEG hallmarks BTW. Both represent fourth states, that is states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:38 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:04 PM, sparaig wrote: I still haven't seen any research, whether, from Shambhala Mountain Center Study, or other studies, that describes the physiological correlates of pure consciousness measured during the practice of Buddhist techniques. Pure consciousness is a TM creation, so I don't expect you'll find such silliness anywhere else. The primary examples of higher states of consciousness are for samadhi in both the Hindu Patanjali traditions and the Buddhist traditions. Both share the same EEG hallmarks BTW. Both represent fourth states, that is states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL What does you think turiya means? Duh, why do you think I keep using the word fourth?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
'Pure Consciousness'=Being=Pure Awareness=Awareness Aware of Itself' That which one becomes familiar when there is 'no mantra/no thoughts' in the TM instruction... That which is experienced as the 'Witness' is 'Pure Consciousness'.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: The most striking silliness is his assertion that real turiya is about states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping... I guess, insomuch as you normally don't notice the movie screen while watching the movie, that you could say this, but the way he words it implies something entirely different than: that which is what waking, dreaming or sleeping are projected upon. L. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:04 PM, sparaig wrote: I still haven't seen any research, whether, from Shambhala Mountain Center Study, or other studies, that describes the physiological correlates of pure consciousness measured during the practice of Buddhist techniques. Pure consciousness is a TM creation Uh, no, it most certainly is not. What a nitwit assertion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-02-06/vintage-wisdom/28005396_1_consciousness-mindfulness-universal-flux http://tinyurl.com/3d8jrj4 http://upanishads.pureconsciousness.org/ , so I don't expect you'll find such silliness anywhere else. Only about 620,000 Google hits on pure consciousness that don't refer either to Maharishi or to Transcendental Meditation. The primary examples of higher states of consciousness are for samadhi in both the Hindu Patanjali traditions and the Buddhist traditions. Both share the same EEG hallmarks BTW. Both represent fourth states, that is states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: The most striking silliness is his assertion that real turiya is about states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping... I guess, insomuch as you normally don't notice the movie screen while watching the movie, that you could say this, but the way he words it implies something entirely different than: that which is what waking, dreaming or sleeping are projected upon. Even worse: Both represent 'fourth' states, plural, as if there was more than one turiya, one for Patanjali and one for Buddhism. Just gibberish. And turiya isn't a state in any case; as you note, it's what underlies all states. I remain unconvinced that what most Buddhists call calm abiding is really pure consciousness that we talk about. Pure Consciousness during TM is characterized by balanced/coherent alpha between the 2 sides of the parietal lobe and to a lesser extent by balanced/coherent alpha between the front and back parts of the brain (the middle seems to be left out in PC and CC, which suggests that perhaps GC/UC/BC will involve those regions as well, but who knows). The meditative techniques that most people practice, as has been pointed out here, lead to one side of the parietal (pre frontal) lobe becoming less active as well as other reductions in activity of the temporal lobe combined with increases in activity in other parts of the brain: in other words these techniques generate greater *imbalance* in the brain rather than greater balance, and it is these imbalances that lead to the descriptions of bliss, compassion, etc. It is possible that there is some underlying style of functioning that underlies both kinds of effects that scientists haven't detected yet, of course, so that both typical Samatha meditation and TM are really leading to the same place. IMHO, people who claim that, in their experience, TM and other techniques lead to the same place, are ignoring a couple of aphorisms: Bliss isn't blissful (and therefore feelings of bliss can't be used to judge the effectiveness of a technique) and if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him (meaning to me that whatever you think enlightenment is, it isn't, so don't get attached to some feeling or condition, inside or outside of meditation). Most people in most traditions, including TM, miss the significance of both of these sayings (which, for me, are different ways of saying the same thing, at least in this context). L
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:38 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:04 PM, sparaig wrote: I still haven't seen any research, whether, from Shambhala Mountain Center Study, or other studies, that describes the physiological correlates of pure consciousness measured during the practice of Buddhist techniques. Pure consciousness is a TM creation, so I don't expect you'll find such silliness anywhere else. The primary examples of higher states of consciousness are for samadhi in both the Hindu Patanjali traditions and the Buddhist traditions. Both share the same EEG hallmarks BTW. Both represent fourth states, that is states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL What does you think turiya means? Duh, why do you think I keep using the word fourth? Are you aware that the oldest of the Upanishads that mentions turiya explicitly says it isn't just another state, but rather that which gives rise to the other states? L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@... wrote: 'Pure Consciousness'=Being=Pure Awareness=Awareness Aware of Itself' That which one becomes familiar when there is 'no mantra/no thoughts' in the TM instruction... That which is experienced as the 'Witness' is 'Pure Consciousness'.. Of course, during meditation Pure Consciousness isn't aware of anything in any meaningful definition of the words aware of. L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
As everyone knows, this is counter to TM instruction. The first research on pure consciousness during TM was published more than 25 years ago and quite forcefully explains why this (Sahaj) practice isn't as effective as TM practice. Researchers asked people to press a button when they had an episode of pure consciousness. What the researchers found was that by the time a meditator pushed the button, they were no longer in an unusual state of consciousness: they had returned towards normal (for TM practice) levels of Alplha coherence and relaxed breathing. In other words, by the time you notice you are in pure consciousness during TM, you are actually out of it. Deciding to remain in this quiet state is impossible because the quiet state simply cannot be noticed while you are in it, so all you are doing is detracting from the *process* that is TM. Pure consciousness is totally unimportant during TM. It is the process of the inward stroke of meditation (decreasing mental activity) followed by the outer stroke that matters. Some period of inactivity at the transition between inward and outward is totally unimportant because in order to note that you are in that state of inactivity requires that the mind be active enough to note something in the first place. Research suggests that this will be true for everyone, no matter how long their pure consciousness during TM lasts: if they note that they are in pure consciousness, they are no longer in the pure state. Now, for someone who transcends for an entire meditation period, this model/theory may break down, but how many reading this have 20 minutes of breath suspension during TM practice and how would you know? L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Besides the difference in mantra-s, there is a difference in how the two meditations are done. In Sahaj practice, the understanding is that the mantra doesn't go anywhere so we don't actually lose the mantra. Because we were introduced to the mantra at initiation, it is naturally recognized and recollected when we sit down to meditate. However, if during meditation our attention has been absorbed in thoughts for a while without realizing it, then we just return to the mantra by recognizing it again. If we find our attention aware of thoughts occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. Just to rest in silent awareness, although there is no activity or object reference, is in itself meditation because awareness is fundamental while the mind is not. Or as SSRS has said, although you cannot know awareness, because it is not an object, you don't need to do so because you are that very awareness itself prior to mind and to the mind's experiences, whether objective or subjective. ��������������������.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The Power of Mantra Contrary to public misinformation, techniques like Transcendental Meditation or Sahaj Samadhi are not based on repetition. They utilize a much subtler science. Om, so are Transcendental Meditation and Sahaj Samadhi effectively the same? The similar practice? Just wondering. Anyone learned both? Anyone here taught both? -B vibrations of consciousness. Mantra carries the mind to the silence that was there before God said, Let there be light. In Sanskrit, mantra means vehicle for the mind: manas - mind, tra - vehicle. Tra is the root of our English suffix, tron. Electrons carry electricity. Positrons carry positivity. Mantras carry mind to its source.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
This explanation conflates the difference between mind/consciousness (citta) and awareness (cit) or, if you prefer, between drishti-matra and buddhi. Awareness is prior to consciousness whether that consciousness is pure or dominated by vritti-s. An act of noticing is an activity of mind/consciousness, while awareness is definitional of what we are. Awareness is independent of the inward or outward stroke of the mind/consciousness and of buddhi-sattva. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: As everyone knows, this is counter to TM instruction. In other words, by the time you notice you are in pure consciousness during TM, you are actually out of it. Deciding to remain in this quiet state is impossible because the quiet state simply cannot be noticed while you are in it, so all you are doing is detracting from the *process* that is TM. Pure consciousness is totally unimportant during TM. It is the process of the inward stroke of meditation (decreasing mental activity) followed by the outer stroke that matters. Some period of inactivity at the transition between inward and outward is totally unimportant because in order to note that you are in that state of inactivity requires that the mind be active enough to note something in the first place. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Besides the difference in mantra-s, there is a difference in how the two meditations are done. In Sahaj practice, the understanding is that the mantra doesn't go anywhere so we don't actually lose the mantra. Because we were introduced to the mantra at initiation, it is naturally recognized and recollected when we sit down to meditate. However, if during meditation our attention has been absorbed in thoughts for a while without realizing it, then we just return to the mantra by recognizing it again. If we find our attention aware of thoughts occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. Just to rest in silent awareness, although there is no activity or object reference, is in itself meditation because awareness is fundamental while the mind is not. Or as SSRS has said, although you cannot know awareness, because it is not an object, you don't need to do so because you are that very awareness itself prior to mind and to the mind's experiences, whether objective or subjective. ��������������������.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The Power of Mantra Contrary to public misinformation, techniques like Transcendental Meditation or Sahaj Samadhi are not based on repetition. They utilize a much subtler science. Om, so are Transcendental Meditation and Sahaj Samadhi effectively the same? The similar practice? Just wondering. Anyone learned both? Anyone here taught both? -B vibrations of consciousness. Mantra carries the mind to the silence that was there before God said, Let there be light. In Sanskrit, mantra means vehicle for the mind: manas - mind, tra - vehicle. Tra is the root of our English suffix, tron. Electrons carry electricity. Positrons carry positivity. Mantras carry mind to its source.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
* * Nicely put. Our BEing is a priori, ever-present, unconditioned and unconditional... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: This explanation conflates the difference between mind/consciousness (citta) and awareness (cit) or, if you prefer, between drishti-matra and buddhi. Awareness is prior to consciousness whether that consciousness is pure or dominated by vritti-s. An act of noticing is an activity of mind/consciousness, while awareness is definitional of what we are. Awareness is independent of the inward or outward stroke of the mind/consciousness and of buddhi-sattva. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: As everyone knows, this is counter to TM instruction. In other words, by the time you notice you are in pure consciousness during TM, you are actually out of it. Deciding to remain in this quiet state is impossible because the quiet state simply cannot be noticed while you are in it, so all you are doing is detracting from the *process* that is TM. Pure consciousness is totally unimportant during TM. It is the process of the inward stroke of meditation (decreasing mental activity) followed by the outer stroke that matters. Some period of inactivity at the transition between inward and outward is totally unimportant because in order to note that you are in that state of inactivity requires that the mind be active enough to note something in the first place. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Besides the difference in mantra-s, there is a difference in how the two meditations are done. In Sahaj practice, the understanding is that the mantra doesn't go anywhere so we don't actually lose the mantra. Because we were introduced to the mantra at initiation, it is naturally recognized and recollected when we sit down to meditate. However, if during meditation our attention has been absorbed in thoughts for a while without realizing it, then we just return to the mantra by recognizing it again. If we find our attention aware of thoughts occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. Just to rest in silent awareness, although there is no activity or object reference, is in itself meditation because awareness is fundamental while the mind is not. Or as SSRS has said, although you cannot know awareness, because it is not an object, you don't need to do so because you are that very awareness itself prior to mind and to the mind's experiences, whether objective or subjective. ��������������������.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The Power of Mantra Contrary to public misinformation, techniques like Transcendental Meditation or Sahaj Samadhi are not based on repetition. They utilize a much subtler science. Om, so are Transcendental Meditation and Sahaj Samadhi effectively the same? The similar practice? Just wondering. Anyone learned both? Anyone here taught both? -B vibrations of consciousness. Mantra carries the mind to the silence that was there before God said, Let there be light. In Sanskrit, mantra means vehicle for the mind: manas - mind, tra - vehicle. Tra is the root of our English suffix, tron. Electrons carry electricity. Positrons carry positivity. Mantras carry mind to its source.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
You said: If we *find our attention aware of thoughts* occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. You're just playing Sanskrit semantic games to avoid admitting that I am correct. REgardless, the proof is in the pudding. After 25 years of people practice the techniques that Sri Sri Ravi Shankar teaches, where is the research on people showing pure consciousness? L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: This explanation conflates the difference between mind/consciousness (citta) and awareness (cit) or, if you prefer, between drishti-matra and buddhi. Awareness is prior to consciousness whether that consciousness is pure or dominated by vritti-s. An act of noticing is an activity of mind/consciousness, while awareness is definitional of what we are. Awareness is independent of the inward or outward stroke of the mind/consciousness and of buddhi-sattva. ������������������������������ --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: As everyone knows, this is counter to TM instruction. In other words, by the time you notice you are in pure consciousness during TM, you are actually out of it. Deciding to remain in this quiet state is impossible because the quiet state simply cannot be noticed while you are in it, so all you are doing is detracting from the *process* that is TM. Pure consciousness is totally unimportant during TM. It is the process of the inward stroke of meditation (decreasing mental activity) followed by the outer stroke that matters. Some period of inactivity at the transition between inward and outward is totally unimportant because in order to note that you are in that state of inactivity requires that the mind be active enough to note something in the first place. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Besides the difference in mantra-s, there is a difference in how the two meditations are done. In Sahaj practice, the understanding is that the mantra doesn't go anywhere so we don't actually lose the mantra. Because we were introduced to the mantra at initiation, it is naturally recognized and recollected when we sit down to meditate. However, if during meditation our attention has been absorbed in thoughts for a while without realizing it, then we just return to the mantra by recognizing it again. If we find our attention aware of thoughts occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. Just to rest in silent awareness, although there is no activity or object reference, is in itself meditation because awareness is fundamental while the mind is not. Or as SSRS has said, although you cannot know awareness, because it is not an object, you don't need to do so because you are that very awareness itself prior to mind and to the mind's experiences, whether objective or subjective. ��������������������.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The Power of Mantra Contrary to public misinformation, techniques like Transcendental Meditation or Sahaj Samadhi are not based on repetition. They utilize a much subtler science. Om, so are Transcendental Meditation and Sahaj Samadhi effectively the same? The similar practice? Just wondering. Anyone learned both? Anyone here taught both? -B vibrations of consciousness. Mantra carries the mind to the silence that was there before God said, Let there be light. In Sanskrit, mantra means vehicle for the mind: manas - mind, tra - vehicle. Tra is the root of our English suffix, tron. Electrons carry electricity. Positrons carry positivity. Mantras carry mind to its source.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Dear Empty, that's a substantial difference. I wish now I would have known the difference years ago. One of the lady saints coming through some years ago pointed that out too. The difference was like the light came on. Thanks for the clarification between TM process and also may be sitting with the silence. -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Besides the difference in mantra-s, there is a difference in how the two meditations are done. In Sahaj practice, the understanding is that the mantra doesn't go anywhere so we don't actually lose the mantra. Because we were introduced to the mantra at initiation, it is naturally recognized and recollected when we sit down to meditate. However, if during meditation our attention has been absorbed in thoughts for a while without realizing it, then we just return to the mantra by recognizing it again. If we find our attention aware of thoughts occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. Just to rest in silent awareness, although there is no activity or object reference, is in itself meditation because awareness is fundamental while the mind is not. Or as SSRS has said, although you cannot know awareness, because it is not an object, you don't need to do so because you are that very awareness itself prior to mind and to the mind's experiences, whether objective or subjective. .. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The Power of Mantra Contrary to public misinformation, techniques like Transcendental Meditation or Sahaj Samadhi are not based on repetition. They utilize a much subtler science. Om, so are Transcendental Meditation and Sahaj Samadhi effectively the same? The similar practice? Just wondering. Anyone learned both? Anyone here taught both? -B vibrations of consciousness. Mantra carries the mind to the silence that was there before God said, Let there be light. In Sanskrit, mantra means vehicle for the mind: manas - mind, tra - vehicle. Tra is the root of our English suffix, tron. Electrons carry electricity. Positrons carry positivity. Mantras carry mind to its source.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
There is an awareness that becomes established, and then, contemplation of awareness itself, and it's infinite value, becomes the meditation...mantra and sutra become more or less redundant... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Dear Empty, that's a substantial difference. I wish now I would have known the difference years ago. One of the lady saints coming through some years ago pointed that out too. The difference was like the light came on. Thanks for the clarification between TM process and also may be sitting with the silence. -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Besides the difference in mantra-s, there is a difference in how the two meditations are done. In Sahaj practice, the understanding is that the mantra doesn't go anywhere so we don't actually lose the mantra. Because we were introduced to the mantra at initiation, it is naturally recognized and recollected when we sit down to meditate. However, if during meditation our attention has been absorbed in thoughts for a while without realizing it, then we just return to the mantra by recognizing it again. If we find our attention aware of thoughts occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. Just to rest in silent awareness, although there is no activity or object reference, is in itself meditation because awareness is fundamental while the mind is not. Or as SSRS has said, although you cannot know awareness, because it is not an object, you don't need to do so because you are that very awareness itself prior to mind and to the mind's experiences, whether objective or subjective. .. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The Power of Mantra Contrary to public misinformation, techniques like Transcendental Meditation or Sahaj Samadhi are not based on repetition. They utilize a much subtler science. Om, so are Transcendental Meditation and Sahaj Samadhi effectively the same? The similar practice? Just wondering. Anyone learned both? Anyone here taught both? -B vibrations of consciousness. Mantra carries the mind to the silence that was there before God said, Let there be light. In Sanskrit, mantra means vehicle for the mind: manas - mind, tra - vehicle. Tra is the root of our English suffix, tron. Electrons carry electricity. Positrons carry positivity. Mantras carry mind to its source.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: This explanation conflates the difference between mind/consciousness (citta) and awareness (cit) or, if you prefer, between drishti-matra and buddhi. Not really. Pure consciousness and pure awareness are synonymous in TM lingo. Awareness is prior to consciousness whether that consciousness is pure or dominated by vritti-s. An act of noticing is an activity of mind/consciousness, while awareness is definitional of what we are. Awareness is independent of the inward or outward stroke of the mind/consciousness and of buddhi-sattva. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: As everyone knows, this is counter to TM instruction. In other words, by the time you notice you are in pure consciousness during TM, you are actually out of it. Deciding to remain in this quiet state is impossible because the quiet state simply cannot be noticed while you are in it, so all you are doing is detracting from the *process* that is TM. Pure consciousness is totally unimportant during TM. It is the process of the inward stroke of meditation (decreasing mental activity) followed by the outer stroke that matters. Some period of inactivity at the transition between inward and outward is totally unimportant because in order to note that you are in that state of inactivity requires that the mind be active enough to note something in the first place. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Besides the difference in mantra-s, there is a difference in how the two meditations are done. In Sahaj practice, the understanding is that the mantra doesn't go anywhere so we don't actually lose the mantra. Because we were introduced to the mantra at initiation, it is naturally recognized and recollected when we sit down to meditate. However, if during meditation our attention has been absorbed in thoughts for a while without realizing it, then we just return to the mantra by recognizing it again. If we find our attention aware of thoughts occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. Just to rest in silent awareness, although there is no activity or object reference, is in itself meditation because awareness is fundamental while the mind is not. Or as SSRS has said, although you cannot know awareness, because it is not an object, you don't need to do so because you are that very awareness itself prior to mind and to the mind's experiences, whether objective or subjective. ��������������������.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The Power of Mantra Contrary to public misinformation, techniques like Transcendental Meditation or Sahaj Samadhi are not based on repetition. They utilize a much subtler science. Om, so are Transcendental Meditation and Sahaj Samadhi effectively the same? The similar practice? Just wondering. Anyone learned both? Anyone here taught both? -B vibrations of consciousness. Mantra carries the mind to the silence that was there before God said, Let there be light. In Sanskrit, mantra means vehicle for the mind: manas - mind, tra - vehicle. Tra is the root of our English suffix, tron. Electrons carry electricity. Positrons carry positivity. Mantras carry mind to its source.
