[FairfieldLife] Re: In Defense of the Maharishi (a True Believer perspective)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Cliff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > Where have you been, Sparaig? Maharishi often uses his own name in > > > precisely this context - "Maharishi Stapathya Veda will > > revolutionize...", > > > or "Maharishi Ayur Veda will save the world...", etc. > > > > > > He has his title and face all over everything! Haven't you noticed? > > > > > > > Title is not name... > > > > > At least MMY doesn't say to reporters, in response to > > > > questions, "Maharishi's TM is the solution to all problems." > > Quotes from Vedic Knowledge for Everybody, by MMY, 1994: > > Though my Transcendental Meditation this level of reality is easily > accesible to everyone. > > My Vedic Science is the source and fulfillment of modern science. > > This shows that my Vedic Science is the potential of all knowledge and > its infinite organizing power. > > Thus my Vedic Science is substantiated by both intellectual > understanding > > and so on, in his recent writings MMY always refers to TM and Vedic > Science with "my" Still not third person. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Defense of the Maharishi (a True Believer perspective)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Cliff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Where have you been, Sparaig? Maharishi often uses his own name in > > precisely this context - "Maharishi Stapathya Veda will > revolutionize...", > > or "Maharishi Ayur Veda will save the world...", etc. > > > > He has his title and face all over everything! Haven't you noticed? > > > > Title is not name... > > > At least MMY doesn't say to reporters, in response to > > > questions, "Maharishi's TM is the solution to all problems." Quotes from Vedic Knowledge for Everybody, by MMY, 1994: Though my Transcendental Meditation this level of reality is easily accesible to everyone. My Vedic Science is the source and fulfillment of modern science. This shows that my Vedic Science is the potential of all knowledge and its infinite organizing power. Thus my Vedic Science is substantiated by both intellectual understanding and so on, in his recent writings MMY always refers to TM and Vedic Science with "my" Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Defense of the Maharishi (a True Believer perspective)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Cliff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Where have you been, Sparaig? Maharishi often uses his own name in > precisely this context - "Maharishi Stapathya Veda will revolutionize...", > or "Maharishi Ayur Veda will save the world...", etc. > > He has his title and face all over everything! Haven't you noticed? > Title is not name... > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > My, don't we feel wonderfully exclusive and supremely fortunate. > > > > > > > > > on 9/7/05 12:20 PM, George DeForest at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > Maharishi's Definition of Heaven on Earth"Maharishi's faultless > > vision, > > > > timeless wisdom and infinite compassion for all mankind are > > obvious in the > > > > following Definitions of Heaven on Earth. Having a vision of what > > Heaven on > > > > Earth can be like is not enough to live in heaven. Maharishi has > > brought out > > > > the easily learned procedures necessary for bringing heavenly > > life to earth. > > > > No other teacher of any time or place, besides Maharishi, has > > been blessed > > > > with the knowledge capable of bringing heavenly life to earth and > > the means > > > > to fulfill that ideal of life. With today's fast pace of life and > > > > communication everyone can learn what is necessary to bring > > heaven to their > > > > life and their society. Maharishi has made creation of Heaven on > > Earth > > > > simple, reliable and easily achieved. He has enlivened the ancient > > > > procedures, developed the necessary programs, tested their > > validity, > > > > published the results and invited every government and every > > family to adopt > > > > this knowledge. Never before has such true compassion been > > displayed on > > > > Earth." > > > > > > > > SOURCE: > > > > http://www.alltm.org/Maharishi/Heaven_on_Earth.html > > > > Says someone whose guru answers questions by referring to her own > > nickname. > > > > At least MMY doesn't say to reporters, in response to > > questions, "Maharishi's TM is the solution to all problems." Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Defense of the Maharishi (a True Believer perspective)
Where have you been, Sparaig? Maharishi often uses his own name in precisely this context - "Maharishi Stapathya Veda will revolutionize...", or "Maharishi Ayur Veda will save the world...", etc. He has his title and face all over everything! Haven't you noticed? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > My, don't we feel wonderfully exclusive and supremely fortunate. > > > > > > on 9/7/05 12:20 PM, George DeForest at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > Maharishi's Definition of Heaven on Earth"Maharishi's faultless > vision, > > > timeless wisdom and infinite compassion for all mankind are > obvious in the > > > following Definitions of Heaven on Earth. Having a vision of what > Heaven on > > > Earth can be like is not enough to live in heaven. Maharishi has > brought out > > > the easily learned procedures necessary for bringing heavenly > life to earth. > > > No other teacher of any time or place, besides Maharishi, has > been blessed > > > with the knowledge capable of bringing heavenly life to earth and > the means > > > to fulfill that ideal of life. With today's fast pace of life and > > > communication everyone can learn what is necessary to bring > heaven to their > > > life and their society. Maharishi has made creation of Heaven on > Earth > > > simple, reliable and easily achieved. He has enlivened the ancient > > > procedures, developed the necessary programs, tested their > validity, > > > published the results and invited every government and every > family to adopt > > > this knowledge. Never before has such true compassion been > displayed on > > > Earth." > > > > > > SOURCE: > > > http://www.alltm.org/Maharishi/Heaven_on_Earth.html > > Says someone whose guru answers questions by referring to her own > nickname. > > At least MMY doesn't say to reporters, in response to > questions, "Maharishi's TM is the solution to all problems." Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Defense of the Maharishi (a True Believer perspective)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Boy, have I got some swampland in Florida I'd love to sell you! > It's been done... > > On 9/7/05 1:20 PM, "George DeForest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Maharishi's Definition of Heaven on Earth"Maharishi's faultless vision, > > timeless wisdom and infinite compassion for all mankind are obvious in the > > following Definitions of Heaven on Earth. Having a vision of what Heaven on > > Earth can be like is not enough to live in heaven. Maharishi has brought out > > the easily learned procedures necessary for bringing heavenly life to earth. > > No other teacher of any time or place, besides Maharishi, has been blessed > > with the knowledge capable of bringing heavenly life to earth and the means > > to fulfill that ideal of life. With today's fast pace of life and > > communication everyone can learn what is necessary to bring heaven to their > > life and their society. Maharishi has made creation of Heaven on Earth > > simple, reliable and easily achieved. He has enlivened the ancient > > procedures, developed the necessary programs, tested their validity, > > published the results and invited every government and every family to adopt > > this knowledge. Never before has such true compassion been displayed on > > Earth." Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Defense of the Maharishi (a True Believer perspective)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My, don't we feel wonderfully exclusive and supremely fortunate. > > > on 9/7/05 12:20 PM, George DeForest at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Maharishi's Definition of Heaven on Earth"Maharishi's faultless vision, > > timeless wisdom and infinite compassion for all mankind are obvious in the > > following Definitions of Heaven on Earth. Having a vision of what Heaven on > > Earth can be like is not enough to live in heaven. Maharishi has brought out > > the easily learned procedures necessary for bringing heavenly life to earth. > > No other teacher of any time or place, besides Maharishi, has been blessed > > with the knowledge capable of bringing heavenly life to earth and the means > > to fulfill that ideal of life. With today's fast pace of life and > > communication everyone can learn what is necessary to bring heaven to their > > life and their society. Maharishi has made creation of Heaven on Earth > > simple, reliable and easily achieved. He has enlivened the ancient > > procedures, developed the necessary programs, tested their validity, > > published the results and invited every government and every family to adopt > > this knowledge. Never before has such true compassion been displayed on > > Earth." > > > > SOURCE: > > http://www.alltm.org/Maharishi/Heaven_on_Earth.html Says someone whose guru answers questions by referring to her own nickname. At least MMY doesn't say to reporters, in response to questions, "Maharishi's TM is the solution to all problems." Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Defense of the Maharishi (a True Believer perspective)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hanumanhoffman9 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Unc, > Sin then Karma? Or karma which creates the sin. Vicious cycle > as the Samskaras form from repetition according to Vasishta. > > I do not understand how this all works. > I only know what I have absorbed from scripture and what my > Sadguru says. > Whether it is through the knowledge He reveals or personal > intervention, I know not. > Sri Ganapathi Sachchidananda Swamiji makes it very clear that > I must face my karma. > Somehow in the machinations Sadguru softens the blows and remains > the anchor. > > Without any doubt this has been made clear. > > Hari Om Tat Sat Cool. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Defense of the Maharishi (a True Believer perspective)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Nicely said. I can generally buy that, because it puts > the resolution of the samskaras right in the lap of the > person who created them. What you explained is basically > what I had in mind when I said that a teacher could "speed > up" the resolution of karmas. > > My issue is with the oft-repeated and oft-believed idea > that the guru is somehow "absorbing" or "resolving" the > karmas him- or herself. That -- the concept of "grace" -- > seems to me to be unnecessary for the proper functioning > of evolution and realization of enlightenment, and from > an Occum's Razor point of view, I tend to write off the > unnecessary as unlikely. > > In other words, in my view the universe works perfectly > well as the interplay of karma and free will. Add a third > element -- grace -- which by definition would violate this > interplay, and you've unnecessarily complicated your model. > > But to each his own... Yeah, though I do believe in Grace (and that's another topic) I think the attribution of resolution of karma to the Guru comes in because the devotee is unaware of the mechanics at play. > > > An alternative to being at the effect of personal karma is to stop > > thinking. By this, I mean becoming established in that reality > > which is beyond thinking. By doing this, we leave it to Brahman > > to deliver our karma to us. We no longer create it, and instead > > always effortlessly enjoy good karma. I experience this, though > > I am not sure of the mechanics of it. It just works- must have > > something to do with enjoying the immense bliss of the Creator > > after subsuming ourselves to Him/Her. > > Interestingly, I can grok what you're saying and identify > with it, even though I personally believe neither in a > Creator or a Creation. The description of the effect > and the enjoyment of the effect remains the same whether > you believe that the Absolute has sentience and intent > of its own or not. Go figure. :-) Ever since I was a kid, I have always been able to concentrate my energies and send them upwards, and feel a connection with something or someone 'up there'. Over time I called it God or the Creator. Just for convenience I guess... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Defense of the Maharishi (a True Believer perspective)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Cliff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Careful with your blood pressure, Peter...:-) > > Not worth having a heart attack over True Belief. yes, dr pete, you kinda over-reacted there a bit LOL! i came across that quote today when looking for something else...it was so out there, i just had to share it with the group...but doesnt mean I belive it like that...ha ha ha...i'd bet Bevan wrote it! > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Yes, this is all your belief. Fine and dandy. BUT IT > > DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE, YOU IDIOT! > > > > --- George DeForest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > "Maharishi's faultless vision, > > > timeless wisdom and infinite compassion for all > > > mankind are obvious... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Defense of the Maharishi (a True Believer perspective)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hanumanhoffman9 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Yes look at Fairfield. > > > > That infinite compassion is obvious. > > A "teacher" who won't even let his students sit in the same room > > with him, even for a million from those foolish enough to offer? > > A "teacher" who gives nothing to the University he founded. > > (without a price) > > A "teacher" who has given no new knowledge in decades. > > A "teacher" who complains. > > A "teacher" whose MAPI business offers audio cassettes in a time > > of cd's and charges $200.00 for the cd of Vishnu Sahasranama! > > > > $200.00!!! for the 1000 > > names of the Lord. > > > > According to those ancient scriptures he has purportedly enlivened, > > that man who sells Veda is surely going to Hell. > > > > Gurus do not ask for anything. They are givers and take only a > > devotees sins. > > I was with ya up to the last sentence. > > I'm asking because I'm always curious when I run into > someone who believes that a guru can "take a devotee's > sin" or somehow mitigate his karmas. > > What do you think is the *mechanism* by which this is > accomplished? > > As I understand karma, I don't see it as possible. I > certainly believe it's possible that a teacher can > speed up the student's ability to work through and > process his own karma, but to "resolve" it or make > it "go away?" Can't see how that could work. > > So I'm curious, since you seem to believe in your > own last line above, how you envision this happening, > how you think it "works." Thanks in advance. Unc, Sin then Karma? Or karma which creates the sin. Vicious cycle as the Samskaras form from repetition according to Vasishta. I do not understand how this all works. I only know what I have absorbed from scripture and what my Sadguru says. Whether it is through the knowledge He reveals or personal intervention, I know not. Sri Ganapathi Sachchidananda Swamiji makes it very clear that I must face my karma. Somehow in the machinations Sadguru softens the blows and remains the anchor. Without any doubt this has been made clear. Hari Om Tat Sat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Defense of the Maharishi (a True Believer perspective)
Careful with your blood pressure, Peter...:-) Not worth having a heart attack over True Belief. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes, this is all your belief. Fine and dandy. BUT IT > DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE, YOU IDIOT! > > --- George DeForest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Maharishi's Definition of Heaven on > > Earth"Maharishi's faultless vision, > > timeless wisdom and infinite compassion for all > > mankind are obvious in the > > following Definitions of Heaven on Earth. Having a > > vision of what Heaven on > > Earth can be like is not enough to live in heaven. > > Maharishi has brought out > > the easily learned procedures necessary for bringing > > heavenly life to earth. > > No other teacher of any time or place, besides > > Maharishi, has been blessed > > with the knowledge capable of bringing heavenly life > > to earth and the means > > to fulfill that ideal of life. With today's fast > > pace of life and > > communication everyone can learn what is necessary > > to bring heaven to their > > life and their society. Maharishi has made creation > > of Heaven on Earth > > simple, reliable and easily achieved. He has > > enlivened the ancient > > procedures, developed the necessary programs, tested > > their validity, > > published the results and invited every government > > and every family to adopt > > this knowledge. Never before has such true > > compassion been displayed on > > Earth." Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Defense of the Maharishi (a True Believer perspective)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Gurus do not ask for anything. They are givers and take > only a > > > devotees sins. > > > > I was with ya up to the last sentence. > > > > I'm asking because I'm always curious when I run into > > someone who believes that a guru can "take a devotee's > > sin" or somehow mitigate his karmas. > > > > What do you think is the *mechanism* by which this is > > accomplished? > > > > As I understand karma, I don't see it as possible. I > > certainly believe it's possible that a teacher can > > speed up the student's ability to work through and > > process his own karma, but to "resolve" it or make > > it "go away?" Can't see how that could work. > > > > So I'm curious, since you seem to believe in your > > own last line above, how you envision this happening, > > how you think it "works." Thanks in advance. > > > > Anyone else who has a theory can chime in, too, if > > they'd like. > > > > Unc > > OK, here's my chime- what I have experienced is that karma has two > elements, the karma of thought and the karma of action, though it > is the karma of thought which is most powerful. > > What > I mean is, it is the repetitions of our thoughts which manifest > results, either presenting a situation which we may then act upon, > or manifesting a reality of which we are then a part of, and may > act within. This occurs whether we want it to or not, because it > is the law of cause and effect; karma. > > The awareness we have of our thoughts and thinking process > determines the karma that we live. If we perform an action and then > anticipate its result, either joyfully or fearfully, that is what > will come back to us. We constantly create and recreate our reality. > > The function of a Guru in this process is twofold. One, the Guru's > presence can clear our mind, purify it, so that we are more aware > of > the future effects we are thinking up for ourselves, and two, the > presence of the Guru purifies our mind so that we naturally create > more pleasing karma for ourselves vs. living the effects of impure > thoughts. Nicely said. I can generally buy that, because it puts the resolution of the samskaras right in the lap of the person who created them. What you explained is basically what I had in mind when I said that a teacher could "speed up" the resolution of karmas. My issue is with the oft-repeated and oft-believed idea that the guru is somehow "absorbing" or "resolving" the karmas him- or herself. That -- the concept of "grace" -- seems to me to be unnecessary for the proper functioning of evolution and realization of enlightenment, and from an Occum's Razor point of view, I tend to write off the unnecessary as unlikely. In other words, in my view the universe works perfectly well as the interplay of karma and free will. Add a third element -- grace -- which by definition would violate this interplay, and you've unnecessarily complicated your model. But to each his own... > An alternative to being at the effect of personal karma is to stop > thinking. By this, I mean becoming established in that reality > which is beyond thinking. By doing this, we leave it to Brahman > to deliver our karma to us. We no longer create it, and instead > always effortlessly enjoy good karma. I experience this, though > I am not sure of the mechanics of it. It just works- must have > something to do with enjoying the immense bliss of the Creator > after subsuming ourselves to Him/Her. Interestingly, I can grok what you're saying and identify with it, even though I personally believe neither in a Creator or a Creation. The description of the effect and the enjoyment of the effect remains the same whether you believe that the Absolute has sentience and intent of its own or not. Go figure. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Defense of the Maharishi (a True Believer perspective)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Gurus do not ask for anything. They are givers and take only a > > devotees sins. > > I was with ya up to the last sentence. > > I'm asking because I'm always curious when I run into > someone who believes that a guru can "take a devotee's > sin" or somehow mitigate his karmas. > > What do you think is the *mechanism* by which this is > accomplished? > > As I understand karma, I don't see it as possible. I > certainly believe it's possible that a teacher can > speed up the student's ability to work through and > process his own karma, but to "resolve" it or make > it "go away?" Can't see how that could work. > > So I'm curious, since you seem to believe in your > own last line above, how you envision this happening, > how you think it "works." Thanks in advance. > > Anyone else who has a theory can chime in, too, if > they'd like. > > Unc OK, here's my chime- what I have experienced is that karma has two elements, the karma of thought and the karma of action, though it is the karma of thought which is most powerful. What I mean is, it is the repetitions of our thoughts which manifest results, either presenting a situation which we may then act upon, or manifesting a reality of which we are then a part of, and may act within. This occurs whether we want it to or not, because it is the law of cause and effect; karma. The awareness we have of our thoughts and thinking process determines the karma that we live. If we perform an action and then anticipate its result, either joyfully or fearfully, that is what will come back to us. We constantly create and recreate our reality. The function of a Guru in this process is twofold. One, the Guru's presence can clear our mind, purify it, so that we are more aware of the future effects we are thinking up for ourselves, and two, the presence of the Guru purifies our mind so that we naturally create more pleasing karma for ourselves vs. living the effects of impure thoughts. An alternative to being at the effect of personal karma is to stop thinking. By this, I mean becoming established in that reality which is beyond thinking. By doing this, we leave it to Brahman to deliver our karma to us. We no longer create it, and instead always effortlessly enjoy good karma. I experience this, though I am not sure of the mechanics of it. It just works- must have something to do with enjoying the immense bliss of the Creator after subsuming ourselves to Him/Her. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: In Defense of the Maharishi (a True Believer perspective)
on 9/7/05 1:58 PM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I'm asking because I'm always curious when I run into > someone who believes that a guru can "take a devotee's > sin" or somehow mitigate his karmas. > > What do you think is the *mechanism* by which this is > accomplished? Remember that incident in the Bible where a woman touched Christ's robe and he turned around and said he had felt the power go out of him, or some such thing? In fact, the whole basis of modern Christianity is that Christ died for your sins, i.e., took on your karma. I still don't know the mechanism, although in cases where someone in your immediate vicinity does this I suppose it has something to do with energy transference or some sort of osmosis where your impurities are transferred to someone who can much more easily burn them off, because their fire is much brighter. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Defense of the Maharishi (a True Believer perspective)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hanumanhoffman9 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes look at Fairfield. > > That infinite compassion is obvious. > A "teacher" who won't even let his students sit in the same room > with him, even for a million from those foolish enough to offer? > A "teacher" who gives nothing to the University he founded. > (without a price) > A "teacher" who has given no new knowledge in decades. > A "teacher" who complains. > A "teacher" whose MAPI business offers audio cassettes in a time > of cd's and charges $200.00 for the cd of Vishnu Sahasranama! > > $200.00!!! for the 1000 > names of the Lord. > > According to those ancient scriptures he has purportedly enlivened, > that man who sells Veda is surely going to Hell. > > Gurus do not ask for anything. They are givers and take only a > devotees sins. I was with ya up to the last sentence. I'm asking because I'm always curious when I run into someone who believes that a guru can "take a devotee's sin" or somehow mitigate his karmas. What do you think is the *mechanism* by which this is accomplished? As I understand karma, I don't see it as possible. I certainly believe it's possible that a teacher can speed up the student's ability to work through and process his own karma, but to "resolve" it or make it "go away?" Can't see how that could work. So I'm curious, since you seem to believe in your own last line above, how you envision this happening, how you think it "works." Thanks in advance. Anyone else who has a theory can chime in, too, if they'd like. Unc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Defense of the Maharishi (a True Believer perspective)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "George DeForest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Maharishi's Definition of Heaven on Earth"Maharishi's faultless vision, > timeless wisdom and infinite compassion for all mankind are obvious in the > following Definitions of Heaven on Earth. Having a vision of what Heaven on > Earth can be like is not enough to live in heaven. Maharishi has brought out > the easily learned procedures necessary for bringing heavenly life to earth. > No other teacher of any time or place, besides Maharishi, has been blessed > with the knowledge capable of bringing heavenly life to earth and the means > to fulfill that ideal of life. Who says? What about Shankara, that One whose tradition the TMO so honors and at the same time defiles. Many True Gurus have come throughout time and will continue to do so as per those scriptures. With today's fast pace of life and > communication everyone can learn what is necessary to bring heaven to their > life and their society. Maharishi has made creation of Heaven on Earth > simple, reliable and easily achieved. He has enlivened the ancient > procedures, developed the necessary programs, tested their validity, > published the results and invited every government and every family to adopt > this knowledge. Never before has such true compassion been displayed on > Earth." Yes look at Fairfield. That infinite compassion is obvious. A "teacher" who won't even let his students sit in the same room with him, even for a million from those foolish enough to offer? A "teacher" who gives nothing to the University he founded. (without a price) A "teacher" who has given no new knowledge in decades. A "teacher" who complains. A "teacher" whose MAPI business offers audio cassettes in a time of cd's and charges $200.00 for the cd of Vishnu Sahasranama! $200.00!!! for the 1000 names of the Lord. According to those ancient scriptures he has purportedly enlivened, that man who sells Veda is surely going to Hell. Gurus do not ask for anything. They are givers and take only a devotees sins. Hari Om Tat Sat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
