Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
Meanwhile you're still lying about the pandits, and pretending that they get paid $200 per month. They do not. They get paid $50 a month, with the other $150 going to the parents who sold them into this program in the first place. They never see a penny of it. Therefore they are paid $1.66 per day, not $6.60 as you claim. Meanwhile, by your own figures below, John Hagelin is paid $438 per day. From: lengli...@cox.net lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:16 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role John Haglein is now Raja John Hagelin, in charge of the TMO for North America. I was arguing with someone in reddit.com about TM finances and looked at the IRS form 990 records for various TM-related organizations. John is paid $37,000 as President of the DLF. He gets another $36,000 for Global Country of World Peace activities. He gets $87,000 as Trustee and director of the Insitute for Science, etchnology and public policy at MUM. By far, he's the highest-paid TMer in North America. I haven't looked into what he is paid or not as Raja -usually that is a non-compensated position, as you have to pay (or get someone to pay for you) $1 million for the post. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
Just following up on your apologetics, Lawson, if you persist in saying that the 20+ year old pandits in America are free to make their own legal decisions, I suggest that you are ignoring two important issues: 1. Many of them have been in the program and behind barbed wire since they were minors as young as 8, and thus incapable of making any legal decisions about whether they want to be there or not. Yes, they had to be at least 20 to sign the TMO slave contracts for the US, but they were too young to legally agree before that. After having been indoctrinated in TM compounds for ten years or more, it's understandable that many of them can no longer imagine any other life, and thus signed whatever was put in front of them for the prospect of a few more rupees and a few more bowls of curry per day. 2. You completely ignore the influence of family on these poor guys. I've worked with many Indian programmers over the years, and have seen at least two dozen of them *forced* by their parents to return to India and marry some woman they'd never met. Yes, arranged marriages are still the norm. When asked by me WHY they'd submit to this, they all replied the same: Family. Their families would disown them if they ever did something they weren't told to do, which in India carries as much of a social stigma as it does in Japan. The pandit boys are *trapped* in their positions, unable to leave them because to do so would make them social outcasts for the rest of their lives. Now back to the money. You've talked about how much John Hagelin makes to be a shill for the TM movement. How much do YOU make to argue on the Internet incessantly and be pretty much a full-time apologist for the TM movement? Doesn't it ever occur to you that you're as brainwashed as the pandit boys? From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role Meanwhile you're still lying about the pandits, and pretending that they get paid $200 per month. They do not. They get paid $50 a month, with the other $150 going to the parents who sold them into this program in the first place. They never see a penny of it. Therefore they are paid $1.66 per day, not $6.60 as you claim. Meanwhile, by your own figures below, John Hagelin is paid $438 per day. From: lengli...@cox.net lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:16 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role John Haglein is now Raja John Hagelin, in charge of the TMO for North America. I was arguing with someone in reddit.com about TM finances and looked at the IRS form 990 records for various TM-related organizations. John is paid $37,000 as President of the DLF. He gets another $36,000 for Global Country of World Peace activities. He gets $87,000 as Trustee and director of the Insitute for Science, etchnology and public policy at MUM. By far, he's the highest-paid TMer in North America. I haven't looked into what he is paid or not as Raja -usually that is a non-compensated position, as you have to pay (or get someone to pay for you) $1 million for the post. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
And Marshy got paid nothing on paper, yet he was worth billions - you think these lying asses are above hiding their assets? On Fri, 3/21/14, lengli...@cox.net lengli...@cox.net wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, March 21, 2014, 6:16 AM John Haglein is now Raja John Hagelin, in charge of the TMO for North America. I was arguing with someone in reddit.com about TM finances and looked at the IRS form 990 records for various TM-related organizations. John is paid $37,000 as President of the DLF. He gets another $36,000 for Global Country of World Peace activities. He gets $87,000 as Trustee and director of the Insitute for Science, etchnology and public policy at MUM. By far, he's the highest-paid TMer in North America. I haven't looked into what he is paid or not as Raja -usually that is a non-compensated position, as you have to pay (or get someone to pay for you) $1 million for the post. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
turq, at least 2 things we don't know: we don't know if they were fenced in from the get go, when they were 6 to 8 years old; we don't know if all the boys had to be forced by their families to join the program. It's possible that some of them genuinely wanted to. But if, to repeat my opinion, if even one child was forced, then the program needs to be ended and begun again, next time with only volunteers. On Friday, March 21, 2014 1:48 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: Just following up on your apologetics, Lawson, if you persist in saying that the 20+ year old pandits in America are free to make their own legal decisions, I suggest that you are ignoring two important issues: 1. Many of them have been in the program and behind barbed wire since they were minors as young as 8, and thus incapable of making any legal decisions about whether they want to be there or not. Yes, they had to be at least 20 to sign the TMO slave contracts for the US, but they were too young to legally agree before that. After having been indoctrinated in TM compounds for ten years or more, it's understandable that many of them can no longer imagine any other life, and thus signed whatever was put in front of them for the prospect of a few more rupees and a few more bowls of curry per day. 2. You completely ignore the influence of family on these poor guys. I've worked with many Indian programmers over the years, and have seen at least two dozen of them *forced* by their parents to return to India and marry some woman they'd never met. Yes, arranged marriages are still the norm. When asked by me WHY they'd submit to this, they all replied the same: Family. Their families would disown them if they ever did something they weren't told to do, which in India carries as much of a social stigma as it does in Japan. The pandit boys are *trapped* in their positions, unable to leave them because to do so would make them social outcasts for the rest of their lives. Now back to the money. You've talked about how much John Hagelin makes to be a shill for the TM movement. How much do YOU make to argue on the Internet incessantly and be pretty much a full-time apologist for the TM movement? Doesn't it ever occur to you that you're as brainwashed as the pandit boys? From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role Meanwhile you're still lying about the pandits, and pretending that they get paid $200 per month. They do not. They get paid $50 a month, with the other $150 going to the parents who sold them into this program in the first place. They never see a penny of it. Therefore they are paid $1.66 per day, not $6.60 as you claim. Meanwhile, by your own figures below, John Hagelin is paid $438 per day. From: lengli...@cox.net lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:16 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role John Haglein is now Raja John Hagelin, in charge of the TMO for North America. I was arguing with someone in reddit.com about TM finances and looked at the IRS form 990 records for various TM-related organizations. John is paid $37,000 as President of the DLF. He gets another $36,000 for Global Country of World Peace activities. He gets $87,000 as Trustee and director of the Insitute for Science, etchnology and public policy at MUM. By far, he's the highest-paid TMer in North America. I haven't looked into what he is paid or not as Raja -usually that is a non-compensated position, as you have to pay (or get someone to pay for you) $1 million for the post. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
Who says he was worth billions? A newspaper?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
Catch a clue, dear. Barry just gets into this manure, in order to distract attention from his fairly serious emotional issues. You can obviously play along, for fun, but please don't be taken in by his feigned passion for this topic. Just a smokescreen he can use, to hide from himself. Now, before you accuse me of demonizing the poor man, I'd just like to point out that once it becomes apparent that someone is a serial critic, of almost everything, as he is, it is only a matter of time, before I ask myself, Why? :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : turq, at least 2 things we don't know: we don't know if they were fenced in from the get go, when they were 6 to 8 years old; we don't know if all the boys had to be forced by their families to join the program. It's possible that some of them genuinely wanted to. But if, to repeat my opinion, if even one child was forced, then the program needs to be ended and begun again, next time with only volunteers. On Friday, March 21, 2014 1:48 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... wrote: Just following up on your apologetics, Lawson, if you persist in saying that the 20+ year old pandits in America are free to make their own legal decisions, I suggest that you are ignoring two important issues: 1. Many of them have been in the program and behind barbed wire since they were minors as young as 8, and thus incapable of making any legal decisions about whether they want to be there or not. Yes, they had to be at least 20 to sign the TMO slave contracts for the US, but they were too young to legally agree before that. After having been indoctrinated in TM compounds for ten years or more, it's understandable that many of them can no longer imagine any other life, and thus signed whatever was put in front of them for the prospect of a few more rupees and a few more bowls of curry per day. 2. You completely ignore the influence of family on these poor guys. I've worked with many Indian programmers over the years, and have seen at least two dozen of them *forced* by their parents to return to India and marry some woman they'd never met. Yes, arranged marriages are still the norm. When asked by me WHY they'd submit to this, they all replied the same: Family. Their families would disown them if they ever did something they weren't told to do, which in India carries as much of a social stigma as it does in Japan. The pandit boys are *trapped* in their positions, unable to leave them because to do so would make them social outcasts for the rest of their lives. Now back to the money. You've talked about how much John Hagelin makes to be a shill for the TM movement. How much do YOU make to argue on the Internet incessantly and be pretty much a full-time apologist for the TM movement? Doesn't it ever occur to you that you're as brainwashed as the pandit boys? From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role Meanwhile you're still lying about the pandits, and pretending that they get paid $200 per month. They do not. They get paid $50 a month, with the other $150 going to the parents who sold them into this program in the first place. They never see a penny of it. Therefore they are paid $1.66 per day, not $6.60 as you claim. Meanwhile, by your own figures below, John Hagelin is paid $438 per day. From: LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:16 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role John Haglein is now Raja John Hagelin, in charge of the TMO for North America. I was arguing with someone in reddit.com about TM finances and looked at the IRS form 990 records for various TM-related organizations. John is paid $37,000 as President of the DLF. He gets another $36,000 for Global Country of World Peace activities. He gets $87,000 as Trustee and director of the Insitute for Science, etchnology and public policy at MUM. By far, he's the highest-paid TMer in North America. I haven't looked into what he is paid or not as Raja -usually that is a non-compensated position, as you have to pay (or get someone to pay for you) $1 million for the post. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
Barry's apologetics for his negative spin on the pandit program involve making a distinction between legal freedom and psychological freedom. While the distinction is valid on its own terms, the case that while the pandits are legally free to make their own decisions, they aren't psychologically free to do so, is hardly cut-and-dried. Essentially, it requires reading the minds of the pandits based on what one knows--or simply infers--about their situation prior to coming to this country and about the nature of family relations in India. The degree of the pandits' psychological freedom may well be a significant issue that warrants discussion, but it is by no means a slam-dunk to assume they lack it. And even if it could be determined, whether and how it should affect the program--should such a lack trump their legal freedom?--is another issue entirely. Bottom line, Barry's conjectures about the psychological freedom of the pandits should not be taken to constitute proof that they are being unfairly exploited by the TMO. Barry's knowledge of the pandits' situation before signing on to the U.S. part of the program is rudimentary at best, and his knowledge of their current psychological state is nonexistent. He can't legitimately accuse Lawson of ignoring what he himself is only guessing at. Again, the psychological freedom issue does warrant discussion, but the ability to come to a hard-and-fast, evidence-based conclusion about what it means, or should mean, for the pandit program may not be within our grasp. Just following up on your apologetics, Lawson, if you persist in saying that the 20+ year old pandits in America are free to make their own legal decisions, I suggest that you are ignoring two important issues: 1. Many of them have been in the program and behind barbed wire since they were minors as young as 8, and thus incapable of making any legal decisions about whether they want to be there or not. Yes, they had to be at least 20 to sign the TMO slave contracts for the US, but they were too young to legally agree before that. After having been indoctrinated in TM compounds for ten years or more, it's understandable that many of them can no longer imagine any other life, and thus signed whatever was put in front of them for the prospect of a few more rupees and a few more bowls of curry per day. 2. You completely ignore the influence of family on these poor guys. I've worked with many Indian programmers over the years, and have seen at least two dozen of them *forced* by their parents to return to India and marry some woman they'd never met. Yes, arranged marriages are still the norm. When asked by me WHY they'd submit to this, they all replied the same: Family. Their families would disown them if they ever did something they weren't told to do, which in India carries as much of a social stigma as it does in Japan. The pandit boys are *trapped* in their positions, unable to leave them because to do so would make them social outcasts for the rest of their lives. Now back to the money. You've talked about how much John Hagelin makes to be a shill for the TM movement. How much do YOU make to argue on the Internet incessantly and be pretty much a full-time apologist for the TM movement? Doesn't it ever occur to you that you're as brainwashed as the pandit boys? From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role Meanwhile you're still lying about the pandits, and pretending that they get paid $200 per month. They do not. They get paid $50 a month, with the other $150 going to the parents who sold them into this program in the first place. They never see a penny of it. Therefore they are paid $1.66 per day, not $6.60 as you claim. Meanwhile, by your own figures below, John Hagelin is paid $438 per day. From: LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:16 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role John Haglein is now Raja John Hagelin, in charge of the TMO for North America. I was arguing with someone in reddit.com about TM finances and looked at the IRS form 990 records for various TM-related organizations. John is paid $37,000 as President of the DLF. He gets another $36,000 for Global Country of World Peace activities. He gets $87,000 as Trustee and director of the Insitute for Science, etchnology and public policy at MUM. By far, he's the highest-paid TMer in North America. I haven't looked into what he is paid or not as Raja -usually that is a non-compensated position, as you have to pay (or get someone to pay for you) $1 million for the post. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
Sort of sounds like you're building a pretty iron clad case. The reports I've seen indicate that most of the pundits seem happy with the arrangement. But I guess what you are saying that they are too brain washed to know otherwise. It sounds like a program would not serve your needs, but maybe it is working fine for the pundits and their families who participate. On the other hand, it sounds like you're saying the brainwashing has been so thorough that they have no choice. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Just following up on your apologetics, Lawson, if you persist in saying that the 20+ year old pandits in America are free to make their own legal decisions, I suggest that you are ignoring two important issues: 1. Many of them have been in the program and behind barbed wire since they were minors as young as 8, and thus incapable of making any legal decisions about whether they want to be there or not. Yes, they had to be at least 20 to sign the TMO slave contracts for the US, but they were too young to legally agree before that. After having been indoctrinated in TM compounds for ten years or more, it's understandable that many of them can no longer imagine any other life, and thus signed whatever was put in front of them for the prospect of a few more rupees and a few more bowls of curry per day. 2. You completely ignore the influence of family on these poor guys. I've worked with many Indian programmers over the years, and have seen at least two dozen of them *forced* by their parents to return to India and marry some woman they'd never met. Yes, arranged marriages are still the norm. When asked by me WHY they'd submit to this, they all replied the same: Family. Their families would disown them if they ever did something they weren't told to do, which in India carries as much of a social stigma as it does in Japan. The pandit boys are *trapped* in their positions, unable to leave them because to do so would make them social outcasts for the rest of their lives. Now back to the money. You've talked about how much John Hagelin makes to be a shill for the TM movement. How much do YOU make to argue on the Internet incessantly and be pretty much a full-time apologist for the TM movement? Doesn't it ever occur to you that you're as brainwashed as the pandit boys? From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role Meanwhile you're still lying about the pandits, and pretending that they get paid $200 per month. They do not. They get paid $50 a month, with the other $150 going to the parents who sold them into this program in the first place. They never see a penny of it. Therefore they are paid $1.66 per day, not $6.60 as you claim. Meanwhile, by your own figures below, John Hagelin is paid $438 per day. From: LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:16 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role John Haglein is now Raja John Hagelin, in charge of the TMO for North America. I was arguing with someone in reddit.com about TM finances and looked at the IRS form 990 records for various TM-related organizations. John is paid $37,000 as President of the DLF. He gets another $36,000 for Global Country of World Peace activities. He gets $87,000 as Trustee and director of the Insitute for Science, etchnology and public policy at MUM. By far, he's the highest-paid TMer in North America. I haven't looked into what he is paid or not as Raja -usually that is a non-compensated position, as you have to pay (or get someone to pay for you) $1 million for the post. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
I don't know, but neither do you, and neither do any of the people supporting this program. Where did the reports you cite come from? The TM movement will not allow any of the actual pandits to be interviewed. Even if they did, would they/could they tell the truth, if Girish's organization (which has been described in the Indian press as a Mafia) could harm their families at home in reprisal? The one thing everyone *can* agree on is that they are being exploited, and for money. They are paid $1.66 a day to chant yagyas that the TM movement charges tens of thousands of dollars for. From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role Sort of sounds like you're building a pretty iron clad case. The reports I've seen indicate that most of the pundits seem happy with the arrangement. But I guess what you are saying that they are too brain washed to know otherwise. It sounds like a program would not serve your needs, but maybe it is working fine for the pundits and their families who participate. On the other hand, it sounds like you're saying the brainwashing has been so thorough that they have no choice. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Just following up on your apologetics, Lawson, if you persist in saying that the 20+ year old pandits in America are free to make their own legal decisions, I suggest that you are ignoring two important issues: 1. Many of them have been in the program and behind barbed wire since they were minors as young as 8, and thus incapable of making any legal decisions about whether they want to be there or not. Yes, they had to be at least 20 to sign the TMO slave contracts for the US, but they were too young to legally agree before that. After having been indoctrinated in TM compounds for ten years or more, it's understandable that many of them can no longer imagine any other life, and thus signed whatever was put in front of them for the prospect of a few more rupees and a few more bowls of curry per day. 2. You completely ignore the influence of family on these poor guys. I've worked with many Indian programmers over the years, and have seen at least two dozen of them *forced* by their parents to return to India and marry some woman they'd never met. Yes, arranged marriages are still the norm. When asked by me WHY they'd submit to this, they all replied the same: Family. Their families would disown them if they ever did something they weren't told to do, which in India carries as much of a social stigma as it does in Japan. The pandit boys are *trapped* in their positions, unable to leave them because to do so would make them social outcasts for the rest of their lives. Now back to the money. You've talked about how much John Hagelin makes to be a shill for the TM movement. How much do YOU make to argue on the Internet incessantly and be pretty much a full-time apologist for the TM movement? Doesn't it ever occur to you that you're as brainwashed as the pandit boys? From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role Meanwhile you're still lying about the pandits, and pretending that they get paid $200 per month. They do not. They get paid $50 a month, with the other $150 going to the parents who sold them into this program in the first place. They never see a penny of it. Therefore they are paid $1.66 per day, not $6.60 as you claim. Meanwhile, by your own figures below, John Hagelin is paid $438 per day. From: LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:16 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role John Haglein is now Raja John Hagelin, in charge of the TMO for North America. I was arguing with someone in reddit.com about TM finances and looked at the IRS form 990 records for various TM-related organizations. John is paid $37,000 as President of the DLF. He gets another $36,000 for Global Country of World Peace activities. He gets $87,000 as Trustee and director of the Insitute for Science, etchnology and public policy at MUM. By far, he's the highest-paid TMer in North America. I haven't looked into what he is paid or not as Raja -usually that is a non-compensated position, as you have to pay (or get someone to pay for you) $1 million for the post. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
He's building an iron-clad case based on conjecture and mind-reading. Sort of sounds like you're building a pretty iron clad case. The reports I've seen indicate that most of the pundits seem happy with the arrangement. But I guess what you are saying that they are too brain washed to know otherwise. Convenient, isn't it? Claiming they're brainwashed makes it possible to invalidate any and all positive comments from the pandits, as well as frame an absence of negative comments as negative. Heads I win, tails you lose. It sounds like a program would not serve your needs, but maybe it is working fine for the pundits and their families who participate. On the other hand, it sounds like you're saying the brainwashing has been so thorough that they have no choice. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Just following up on your apologetics, Lawson, if you persist in saying that the 20+ year old pandits in America are free to make their own legal decisions, I suggest that you are ignoring two important issues: 1. Many of them have been in the program and behind barbed wire since they were minors as young as 8, and thus incapable of making any legal decisions about whether they want to be there or not. Yes, they had to be at least 20 to sign the TMO slave contracts for the US, but they were too young to legally agree before that. After having been indoctrinated in TM compounds for ten years or more, it's understandable that many of them can no longer imagine any other life, and thus signed whatever was put in front of them for the prospect of a few more rupees and a few more bowls of curry per day. 2. You completely ignore the influence of family on these poor guys. I've worked with many Indian programmers over the years, and have seen at least two dozen of them *forced* by their parents to return to India and marry some woman they'd never met. Yes, arranged marriages are still the norm. When asked by me WHY they'd submit to this, they all replied the same: Family. Their families would disown them if they ever did something they weren't told to do, which in India carries as much of a social stigma as it does in Japan. The pandit boys are *trapped* in their positions, unable to leave them because to do so would make them social outcasts for the rest of their lives. Now back to the money. You've talked about how much John Hagelin makes to be a shill for the TM movement. How much do YOU make to argue on the Internet incessantly and be pretty much a full-time apologist for the TM movement? Doesn't it ever occur to you that you're as brainwashed as the pandit boys? From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role Meanwhile you're still lying about the pandits, and pretending that they get paid $200 per month. They do not. They get paid $50 a month, with the other $150 going to the parents who sold them into this program in the first place. They never see a penny of it. Therefore they are paid $1.66 per day, not $6.60 as you claim. Meanwhile, by your own figures below, John Hagelin is paid $438 per day. From: LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:16 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role John Haglein is now Raja John Hagelin, in charge of the TMO for North America. I was arguing with someone in reddit.com about TM finances and looked at the IRS form 990 records for various TM-related organizations. John is paid $37,000 as President of the DLF. He gets another $36,000 for Global Country of World Peace activities. He gets $87,000 as Trustee and director of the Insitute for Science, etchnology and public policy at MUM. By far, he's the highest-paid TMer in North America. I haven't looked into what he is paid or not as Raja -usually that is a non-compensated position, as you have to pay (or get someone to pay for you) $1 million for the post. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
The pandits get paid $200 per month. Lawson isn't lying or pretending. The families wouldn't be receiving $150 per month if their sons weren't earning it, and it's sophistry to claim otherwise. Meanwhile you're still lying about the pandits, and pretending that they get paid $200 per month. They do not. They get paid $50 a month, with the other $150 going to the parents who sold them into this program in the first place. They never see a penny of it. Therefore they are paid $1.66 per day, not $6.60 as you claim.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
It's being a total cultist to claim that they *are* getting $200. They are getting $50 per month. That is the only money they will ever see, if they ever even see that, except as credits at the company store. The other $150 goes to the parents who sold them into this program when they were young. Nothing you can ever say can spin this otherwise. It's shameful of you to even try. From: authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role The pandits get paid $200 per month. Lawson isn't lying or pretending. The families wouldn't be receiving $150 per month if their sons weren't earning it, and it's sophistry to claim otherwise. Meanwhile you're still lying about the pandits, and pretending that they get paid $200 per month. They do not. They get paid $50 a month, with the other $150 going to the parents who sold them into this program in the first place. They never see a penny of it. Therefore they are paid $1.66 per day, not $6.60 as you claim.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Just following up on your apologetics, Lawson, if you persist in saying that the 20+ year old pandits in America are free to make their own legal decisions, I suggest that you are ignoring two important issues: 1. Many of them have been in the program and behind barbed wire since they were minors as young as 8, and thus incapable of making any legal decisions about whether they want to be there or not. Yes, they had to be at least 20 to sign the TMO slave contracts for the US, but they were too young to legally agree before that. After having been indoctrinated in TM compounds for ten years or more, it's understandable that many of them can no longer imagine any other life, and thus signed whatever was put in front of them for the prospect of a few more rupees and a few more bowls of curry per day. 2. You completely ignore the influence of family on these poor guys. I've worked with many Indian programmers over the years, and have seen at least two dozen of them *forced* by their parents to return to India and marry some woman they'd never met. Yes, arranged marriages are still the norm. When asked by me WHY they'd submit to this, they all replied the same: Family. Their families would disown them if they ever did something they weren't told to do, which in India carries as much of a social stigma as it does in Japan. The pandit boys are *trapped* in their positions, unable to leave them because to do so would make them social outcasts for the rest of their lives. Now back to the money. You've talked about how much John Hagelin makes to be a shill for the TM movement. How much do YOU make to argue on the Internet incessantly and be pretty much a full-time apologist for the TM movement? Doesn't it ever occur to you that you're as brainwashed as the pandit boys? It's official, Lawson should be horse whipped and hung out to dry in the freezing cold for an indeterminate amount of time. I mean, hwww stpid can a person be? And if doing simple math amounts to being a full-time apologist for the TM movement then by God, let's lynch him instead. Or we could just try and humiliate him and make him feel like some sort of dolt by harping on him for not agreeing with us. Yea, let's do that and while we're at it make sure we try and ridicule everyone else here who doesn't feel exactly as we do because, after all, we know best. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role Meanwhile you're still lying about the pandits, and pretending that they get paid $200 per month. They do not. They get paid $50 a month, with the other $150 going to the parents who sold them into this program in the first place. They never see a penny of it. Therefore they are paid $1.66 per day, not $6.60 as you claim. Meanwhile, by your own figures below, John Hagelin is paid $438 per day. From: LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:16 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role John Haglein is now Raja John Hagelin, in charge of the TMO for North America. I was arguing with someone in reddit.com about TM finances and looked at the IRS form 990 records for various TM-related organizations. John is paid $37,000 as President of the DLF. He gets another $36,000 for Global Country of World Peace activities. He gets $87,000 as Trustee and director of the Insitute for Science, etchnology and public policy at MUM. By far, he's the highest-paid TMer in North America. I haven't looked into what he is paid or not as Raja -usually that is a non-compensated position, as you have to pay (or get someone to pay for you) $1 million for the post. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
A few additional minor comments on Barry's apologetics: 1. Many of them have been in the program and behind barbed wire since they were minors as young as 8, Barry has no idea whether the Indian program puts the pandit boys behind barbed wire. After having been indoctrinated in TM compounds for ten years or more, it's understandable that many of them can no longer imagine any other life, and thus signed whatever was put in front of them for the prospect of a few more rupees and a few more bowls of curry per day. This is hilarious. How many bowls of curry does a pandit normally eat in a day? How many more bowls is a few more? Is that written into the contract? What happened here was, Barry decided he needed something besides a few more rupees for rhythm, but he couldn't think of anything offhand that made any sense, so he just threw in something that didn't make any sense. ...Now back to the money. You've talked about how much John Hagelin makes to be a shill for the TM movement. How much do YOU make to argue on the Internet incessantly and be pretty much a full-time apologist for the TM movement? Gee, I haven't seen this silly canard, in which those defending TM are accused of doing it for money, from the TM-critic faction since alt.m.t days. Barry, of course, has NO idea how much of his time Lawson spends defending the TM movement. We certainly don't see him on FFL that often. The epithet full-time apologist is not only based on no evidence whatsoever, it's almost certainly false. And I think everyone understands that the How much do YOU make? question has nothing behind it either. It's just a nasty spitball. Doesn't it ever occur to you that you're as brainwashed as the pandit boys? Lawson is SO much more objective about the TMO than Barry is. If you adopt Barry's claims about Lawson rather than actually reading what Lawson posts, you're letting yourself be spun straight down the garden path. Would Lawson report on what he found out concerning what Hagelin is paid if he were trying to burnish the TMO's image? From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role Meanwhile you're still lying about the pandits, and pretending that they get paid $200 per month. They do not. They get paid $50 a month, with the other $150 going to the parents who sold them into this program in the first place. They never see a penny of it. Therefore they are paid $1.66 per day, not $6.60 as you claim. Meanwhile, by your own figures below, John Hagelin is paid $438 per day. From: LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:16 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role John Haglein is now Raja John Hagelin, in charge of the TMO for North America. I was arguing with someone in reddit.com about TM finances and looked at the IRS form 990 records for various TM-related organizations. John is paid $37,000 as President of the DLF. He gets another $36,000 for Global Country of World Peace activities. He gets $87,000 as Trustee and director of the Insitute for Science, etchnology and public policy at MUM. By far, he's the highest-paid TMer in North America. I haven't looked into what he is paid or not as Raja -usually that is a non-compensated position, as you have to pay (or get someone to pay for you) $1 million for the post. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Meanwhile you're still lying about the pandits, and pretending that they get paid $200 per month. They do not. They get paid $50 a month, with the other $150 going to the parents who sold them into this program in the first place. They never see a penny of it. Therefore they are paid $1.66 per day, not $6.60 as you claim. Meanwhile, by your own figures below, John Hagelin is paid $438 per day. Ah, but you should hear Hagelin sing (chant); he's worth every penny. And he sends $392 of that back to his grandmother in Florida. From: LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:16 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role John Haglein is now Raja John Hagelin, in charge of the TMO for North America. I was arguing with someone in reddit.com about TM finances and looked at the IRS form 990 records for various TM-related organizations. John is paid $37,000 as President of the DLF. He gets another $36,000 for Global Country of World Peace activities. He gets $87,000 as Trustee and director of the Insitute for Science, etchnology and public policy at MUM. By far, he's the highest-paid TMer in North America. I haven't looked into what he is paid or not as Raja -usually that is a non-compensated position, as you have to pay (or get someone to pay for you) $1 million for the post. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
The pandits get paid $200 per month. Lawson isn't lying or pretending, and I'm not being a total cultist to say so. As noted, the families wouldn't be receiving $150 per month if their sons weren't earning it, and it's not just spinning but the purest sophistry to claim otherwise. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : It's being a total cultist to claim that they *are* getting $200. They are getting $50 per month. That is the only money they will ever see, if they ever even see that, except as credits at the company store. The other $150 goes to the parents who sold them into this program when they were young. Nothing you can ever say can spin this otherwise. It's shameful of you to even try. From: authfriend@... authfriend@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role The pandits get paid $200 per month. Lawson isn't lying or pretending. The families wouldn't be receiving $150 per month if their sons weren't earning it, and it's sophistry to claim otherwise. Meanwhile you're still lying about the pandits, and pretending that they get paid $200 per month. They do not. They get paid $50 a month, with the other $150 going to the parents who sold them into this program in the first place. They never see a penny of it. Therefore they are paid $1.66 per day, not $6.60 as you claim.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : It's being a total cultist to claim that they *are* getting $200. They are getting $50 per month. That is the only money they will ever see, if they ever even see that, except as credits at the company store. The other $150 goes to the parents who sold them into this program when they were young. Nothing you can ever say can spin this otherwise. It's shameful of you to even try. Shame, shame, shame. Bawwy, you're makin' me laugh with your pseudo-humanitarian front on this subject. Think of it as getting $50 now and banking $150 with your family who gets to spend that money when and how they choose. And if your feeble and closed mind can get around the fact that food and housing are worth money then you would realize their 'payment' includes that as well. No one here is claiming these pandits are going to retire as millionaires but they have made a choice to take food, shelter, money and 3x that salary to be sent to aid their relatives back home. Now dry your crocodile tears and can we move on? From: authfriend@... authfriend@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role The pandits get paid $200 per month. Lawson isn't lying or pretending. The families wouldn't be receiving $150 per month if their sons weren't earning it, and it's sophistry to claim otherwise. Meanwhile you're still lying about the pandits, and pretending that they get paid $200 per month. They do not. They get paid $50 a month, with the other $150 going to the parents who sold them into this program in the first place. They never see a penny of it. Therefore they are paid $1.66 per day, not $6.60 as you claim.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
We all pick up on different things, don't we? My information comes from the original reports in which many of the pundit boys were quoted as saying that they were embarrassed by the incident, and that it ran contrary to why they were there. You can look up the original article if you want. I think I got it pretty much right. But the picture you are creating is more of child, or at least people trafficking, and I think it is inaccurate. But tell me, apart from your theory that they and their families are too brainwashed to know better, who is forcing them to come, and/or stay there? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I don't know, but neither do you, and neither do any of the people supporting this program. Where did the reports you cite come from? The TM movement will not allow any of the actual pandits to be interviewed. Even if they did, would they/could they tell the truth, if Girish's organization (which has been described in the Indian press as a Mafia) could harm their families at home in reprisal? The one thing everyone *can* agree on is that they are being exploited, and for money. They are paid $1.66 a day to chant yagyas that the TM movement charges tens of thousands of dollars for. From: steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role Sort of sounds like you're building a pretty iron clad case. The reports I've seen indicate that most of the pundits seem happy with the arrangement. But I guess what you are saying that they are too brain washed to know otherwise. It sounds like a program would not serve your needs, but maybe it is working fine for the pundits and their families who participate. On the other hand, it sounds like you're saying the brainwashing has been so thorough that they have no choice. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Just following up on your apologetics, Lawson, if you persist in saying that the 20+ year old pandits in America are free to make their own legal decisions, I suggest that you are ignoring two important issues: 1. Many of them have been in the program and behind barbed wire since they were minors as young as 8, and thus incapable of making any legal decisions about whether they want to be there or not. Yes, they had to be at least 20 to sign the TMO slave contracts for the US, but they were too young to legally agree before that. After having been indoctrinated in TM compounds for ten years or more, it's understandable that many of them can no longer imagine any other life, and thus signed whatever was put in front of them for the prospect of a few more rupees and a few more bowls of curry per day. 2. You completely ignore the influence of family on these poor guys. I've worked with many Indian programmers over the years, and have seen at least two dozen of them *forced* by their parents to return to India and marry some woman they'd never met. Yes, arranged marriages are still the norm. When asked by me WHY they'd submit to this, they all replied the same: Family. Their families would disown them if they ever did something they weren't told to do, which in India carries as much of a social stigma as it does in Japan. The pandit boys are *trapped* in their positions, unable to leave them because to do so would make them social outcasts for the rest of their lives. Now back to the money. You've talked about how much John Hagelin makes to be a shill for the TM movement. How much do YOU make to argue on the Internet incessantly and be pretty much a full-time apologist for the TM movement? Doesn't it ever occur to you that you're as brainwashed as the pandit boys? From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role Meanwhile you're still lying about the pandits, and pretending that they get paid $200 per month. They do not. They get paid $50 a month, with the other $150 going to the parents who sold them into this program in the first place. They never see a penny of it. Therefore they are paid $1.66 per day, not $6.60 as you claim. Meanwhile, by your own figures below, John Hagelin is paid $438 per day. From: LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:16 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role John Haglein is now Raja John Hagelin, in charge of the TMO for North America. I was arguing with someone in reddit.com about TM finances and looked at the IRS form 990 records for various TM-related organizations. John is paid $37,000 as President of the DLF. He gets another $36,000 for Global Country of World Peace activities. He
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
Steve, just to butt in here and make the point again that imo to force someone to create world peace is a contradiction in terms and shouldn't be done, even if it's parents doing that to their young children. I think such a program should only have volunteers. Otherwise it's flawed at the core. On Friday, March 21, 2014 11:01 AM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com steve.sun...@yahoo.com wrote: We all pick up on different things, don't we? My information comes from the original reports in which many of the pundit boys were quoted as saying that they were embarrassed by the incident, and that it ran contrary to why they were there. You can look up the original article if you want. I think I got it pretty much right. But the picture you are creating is more of child, or at least people trafficking, and I think it is inaccurate. But tell me, apart from your theory that they and their families are too brainwashed to know better, who is forcing them to come, and/or stay there? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I don't know, but neither do you, and neither do any of the people supporting this program. Where did the reports you cite come from? The TM movement will not allow any of the actual pandits to be interviewed. Even if they did, would they/could they tell the truth, if Girish's organization (which has been described in the Indian press as a Mafia) could harm their families at home in reprisal? The one thing everyone *can* agree on is that they are being exploited, and for money. They are paid $1.66 a day to chant yagyas that the TM movement charges tens of thousands of dollars for. From: steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role Sort of sounds like you're building a pretty iron clad case. The reports I've seen indicate that most of the pundits seem happy with the arrangement. But I guess what you are saying that they are too brain washed to know otherwise. It sounds like a program would not serve your needs, but maybe it is working fine for the pundits and their families who participate. On the other hand, it sounds like you're saying the brainwashing has been so thorough that they have no choice. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Just following up on your apologetics, Lawson, if you persist in saying that the 20+ year old pandits in America are free to make their own legal decisions, I suggest that you are ignoring two important issues: 1. Many of them have been in the program and behind barbed wire since they were minors as young as 8, and thus incapable of making any legal decisions about whether they want to be there or not. Yes, they had to be at least 20 to sign the TMO slave contracts for the US, but they were too young to legally agree before that. After having been indoctrinated in TM compounds for ten years or more, it's understandable that many of them can no longer imagine any other life, and thus signed whatever was put in front of them for the prospect of a few more rupees and a few more bowls of curry per day. 2. You completely ignore the influence of family on these poor guys. I've worked with many Indian programmers over the years, and have seen at least two dozen of them *forced* by their parents to return to India and marry some woman they'd never met. Yes, arranged marriages are still the norm. When asked by me WHY they'd submit to this, they all replied the same: Family. Their families would disown them if they ever did something they weren't told to do, which in India carries as much of a social stigma as it does in Japan. The pandit boys are *trapped* in their positions, unable to leave them because to do so would make them social outcasts for the rest of their lives. Now back to the money. You've talked about how much John Hagelin makes to be a shill for the TM movement. How much do YOU make to argue on the Internet incessantly and be pretty much a full-time apologist for the TM movement? Doesn't it ever occur to you that you're as brainwashed as the pandit boys? From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role Meanwhile you're still lying about the pandits, and pretending that they get paid $200 per month. They do not. They get paid $50 a month, with the other $150 going to the parents who sold them into this program in the first place. They never see a penny of it. Therefore they are paid $1.66 per day, not $6.60 as you claim. Meanwhile, by your own figures below, John Hagelin is paid $438 per day. From: LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... To: FairfieldLife
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role
I am speculating, Steve, based on experience, both with Indians, and with the TM movement. No one who has ever worked for the TM movement for room and board plus course credit and then had that course credit taken away on a whim by Maharishi because his cash flow was low will ever believe what they read in a TMO press release. I have no doubts that many of the pandits there, having been immersed in a TM We're the greatest because we alone are saving the world environment for years, feel as if they are there for a Cosmic Purpose, doing something valuable and wonderful. I mean, look at Lawson, who, as I understand it, has never worked for the TM movement in his life, but spends an inordinate amount of his time arguing about the absolute supremacy of TM on the Internet. There is just no accounting for True Believers and the things they do. No, I don't know for sure that my jaundiced view of the pandit program is correct, but I contend that it is a reasonable extrapolation of the facts as presented so far. The pandits ARE recruited in their pre-pubescence from poor families who can barely afford to support them, and they ARE essentially sold into indentured servitude by their parents (they can't be held responsible for the decision, because they're minors) for the promise of $150 per month plus (hopefully) an education for their sons. They ARE paid only $50 per month, the $150 (hopefully) going to their parents. They ARE being paid *at most* $2.50 an hour to perform services that the TM organization then charges thousands and tens of thousands of dollars for. All of these things are FACTS, even if you believe the TM press releases. I'm suggesting that this is a human rights travesty, and that those who condone it are lower than the lint in a snake's navel. Your mileage may vary. From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role We all pick up on different things, don't we? My information comes from the original reports in which many of the pundit boys were quoted as saying that they were embarrassed by the incident, and that it ran contrary to why they were there. You can look up the original article if you want. I think I got it pretty much right. But the picture you are creating is more of child, or at least people trafficking, and I think it is inaccurate. But tell me, apart from your theory that they and their families are too brainwashed to know better, who is forcing them to come, and/or stay there? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I don't know, but neither do you, and neither do any of the people supporting this program. Where did the reports you cite come from? The TM movement will not allow any of the actual pandits to be interviewed. Even if they did, would they/could they tell the truth, if Girish's organization (which has been described in the Indian press as a Mafia) could harm their families at home in reprisal? The one thing everyone *can* agree on is that they are being exploited, and for money. They are paid $1.66 a day to chant yagyas that the TM movement charges tens of thousands of dollars for. From: steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Hurt Community, Bevan Morris Role Sort of sounds like you're building a pretty iron clad case. The reports I've seen indicate that most of the pundits seem happy with the arrangement. But I guess what you are saying that they are too brain washed to know otherwise. It sounds like a program would not serve your needs, but maybe it is working fine for the pundits and their families who participate. On the other hand, it sounds like you're saying the brainwashing has been so thorough that they have no choice. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Just following up on your apologetics, Lawson, if you persist in saying that the 20+ year old pandits in America are free to make their own legal decisions, I suggest that you are ignoring two important issues: 1. Many of them have been in the program and behind barbed wire since they were minors as young as 8, and thus incapable of making any legal decisions about whether they want to be there or not. Yes, they had to be at least 20 to sign the TMO slave contracts for the US, but they were too young to legally agree before that. After having been indoctrinated in TM compounds for ten years or more, it's understandable that many of them can no longer imagine any other life, and thus signed whatever was put in front of them for the prospect of a few more rupees and a few more bowls of curry per day. 2. You completely ignore the influence of family on these poor
