Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-28 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/27/06 11:05:34 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
700,000 
  Arabs displaced according to some. That's likely far more than were displaced 
  in the original Jewish diaspora.

And who is to say any of these Arabs were original inhabitants of the land 
in which we now call Israel? Remember Arabs from Egypt, Jordan, Syria and 
Lebanon moved in seeking jobs once Jews started moving back in and developing 
the land. Many fled in 1948 when the Arab armies attacked and they were 
promised their homes back plus prime Israeli land once the state of Israel was 
destroyed. Many stayed. Those that gambled lost , those that stayed kept what 
they had.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-27 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/27/06 2:04:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Were you 
  kidding when you said you didn't thinkmany people converted to Judaism 
  except if theymarried a Jew?

No, I was serious about that. I can't prove it, but when you hear about 
people converting you usually hear of them converting to the other major 
religions of the world, Christianity Islam and Buddhism. As you said earlier 
Jews tend to discourage conversion to their religion or at least not make it 
easy. Because of this I would think the major reason for people converting 
to Judaism would be because their spouse was Jewish. I wouldn't be surprised in 
this time if  more people didn't try to explore the possibility 
but I don't think it would be common.   

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-27 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/27/06 12:36:48 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I know 
  two lesibans who both converted because the rabbi said he would > 
  perform a > traditional temple wedding for them if they did.> 
  > > I'm sure that is a common occurance.I rather doubt it. 
  And it would be possible only invery liberal Reform (or perhaps 
  Reconstructionist)temples. The conversion wouldn't be considered 
  validby either Conservative or Orthodox 
Judaism.

Aw com'on Judy you had to know I was being fasicious! LOL    

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-27 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/26/06 9:31:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  > No, they had been on pretty much the same piece of real > 
  estate for some 2,000 years but never went around expanding > their 
  country by saying some place was holy thus it belonged > to them. 
  Example: Mt Sinai , a Holy place but I don't recall > Jews conquering 
  the place and annexing it. Or Southern Iraq > where Abraham was from, 
  the father of Judaism. they never > tried to expand their territory to 
  annex it.Aren't you the person who posted the link abouta history 
  of Israel in easy maps? Are you nowclaiming that Jerusaleum, the holiest 
  of holies,was part of the original territory of Israel ascreated by 
  the UN? 
  Messages 
  in this topic (69) Reply (via web post

No, I was referring to the original Israel and what the British originally 
intended to make make Israel, which included the west bank at one time. Check 
those maps again.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-27 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/26/06 6:03:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I'm 
  wrong on this, BTW. Jews who deliberately andopenly convert to a different 
  religion are *not*considered Jewish by the Right of Return.> 
  And who converts to Judaism except to marry a Jew? Probably> very 
  few.You'd be surprised, I think. I can't find statisticsat the 
  moment, but I'll try to look for some later.

I had always heard to be considered  a Jew one's mother had to be a 
Jew, not sure of the details on this because some people do convert. However, 
Judaism doesn't seek out converts.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-27 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/26/06 5:51:50 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
A large 
  portion of the Israelis are from Europe

I've never said otherwise. And Jews from all over the world continue to go 
there.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-27 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/26/06 5:44:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED].. wrote:>> > In a message dated 7/26/06 
  5:13:11 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:> 
  > > > Converts become full members of the tribe, 
  according> > > to Jewish law.> > > > What 
  about those who are not practicing or who converted to > > something 
  else?> > Still considered Jews, I believe, according to 
  the> Right of Return in Israel.> > > > And 
  who converts to Judaism except to marry a Jew? Probably very 
  few.>I know two lesibans who both converted because the rabbi 
  said he would perform a traditional temple wedding for them if they 
  did.

I'm sure that is a common occurance.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-26 Thread Sal Sunshine
Picture yourself on a train in a station
With plasticine porters with looking glass ties
Suddenly someone is there at the turnstile
The girl with the kaleidoscope eyes

ARTIST: The Beatles
TITLE: Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds

On Jul 26, 2006, at 5:04 PM, authfriend wrote:

I really think you should lay off the Plasticine people.

Maybe he means Pleistocene people...


Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/26/06 5:13:11 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
  > Converts become full members of the tribe, according> > to 
  Jewish law.> > What about those who are not practicing or who 
  converted to > something else?Still considered Jews, I believe, 
  according to theRight of Return in Israel.

And who converts to Judaism except to marry a Jew? Probably very 
few.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/26/06 5:05:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  One could say that the manner in which Islam designates certain 
  places> > as "Holy" followed by attempting to appropriate these 
  places can be> > viewed as an MO of territorial expansion in 
  itself.> > > > "Religious imperialism, "Religiou> 
  >> > Unlike Jewish or Christian or Buddhist designations of 
  certain places as > "Holy" by > attmpting to appropriate these 
  places? Dare I mention non-reservation holy > land of the > 
  American Indians? > > > > Can you give us an 
  example of how Jews expanded their territories by calling > them 
  Holy?>Er, so they use different words. They still use words to 
  identify special places. "God-given land" for 
instance... 

No, they had been on pretty much the  same piece of real 
estate for some 2,000 years but never went around expanding their country 
by saying some place was holy thus it belonged to them. Example: Mt Sinai , a 
Holy place but I don't recall Jews conquering the place and annexing it. Or 
Southern Iraq where Abraham was from, the father of Judaism. they never 
tried to expand their territory to annex it.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/26/06 4:54:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
But only 
  fanatics would insist that people who have lived on a spot of land for 
  generations must be thrown out so that THEY, the ones who have lived in 
  Europe during those same generations, can move back 
in.

Most of the Arabs that call themselves Palestinians now have not been there 
for "generations", at least in Israel. Most came in from other Arab countries 
about the same time the Jews started moving back there. Most that left Israel 
were never thrown out but left of their own free will at the time of the 
1948 war in which the surrounding Arab countries told them they would give them 
all of Israel to choose from once Israel was defeated. Many stayed and are still 
there today.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/26/06 4:42:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And 
  lived there for some 2000 years.>What about the Palestinian 
  Arabs and Christians who were originally Jewish whose families lived there 
  for all of that time also?

There were not many people living in the Palestinian territory now known as 
Israel until Jews started migrating there in the late 1800's. Population was 
very sparse since it was pretty much a wasteland. Mainly Bedouin tribes men 
moving in and out to graze their goats never actually settling the land. I 
had mentioned a quote from Mark Twain earlier when he traveled through the 
region and said it was vast wasteland with very few people living there. 

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/26/06 4:22:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
One 
  could say that the manner in which Islam designates certain places> as 
  "Holy" followed by attempting to appropriate these places can be> 
  viewed as an MO of territorial expansion in itself.> > 
  "Religious imperialism," if you will.>Unlike Jewish or 
  Christian or Buddhist designations of certain places as "Holy" by 
  attmpting to appropriate these places? Dare I mention non-reservation holy 
  land of the American Indians? 

Can you give us an example of how Jews expanded their territories by 
calling them Holy?
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/26/06 4:08:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I've 
  heard Hindus outside of the Indian Subcontinent such as in> Bali 
  referred to as expatriates. In other words they or their > ancestors 
  migrated from India. Just as Jews migrated from Israel.Well, OK, but 
  that would apply to anyone whomigrated from a home country elsewhere, 
  wouldn'tit?

Right but if you trace the roots of just about any Hindu, you'll find they 
came from  India or the Indian subcontinent.   

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/26/06 2:06:51 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  I would bet Hindus would consider India their traditional 
  homeland.Dunno. Of the world's 900 million Hindus, about890 
  million live in India, so clearly the vastmajority would. But there are 
  also other countries(albeit much smaller, obviously) with 
  traditionalHindu cultures.From Wikipedia:Significant 
  numbers of Hindus reside in Bali, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Fiji, Guyana, Nepal, 
  Mauritius, Suriname, Singapore and Trinidad and Tobago. In Nepal and Bali, 
  Hinduism is the major religion, and is still reflected in the traditional 
  culture and architecture. There are also sizeable Hindu populations in Sri 
  Lanka (1.42 million)[25], Pakistan (2 million)[26], Malaysia 
  (1.5 million)[27], United States (766,000)[28], South Africa 
  (654,714)[29], the Middle East (1.4 million)[30] and the United 
  Kingdom (558,342)[31].Would Nepalese and Balinese Hindus consider 
  India theirtraditional homeland? I don't know.It seems to me the 
  "homeland" issue arises mainly whenthere's been a major diaspora of a 
  tribal or ethnicgroup with an associated religion. 
  Messages 
  in this topic (33) Reply (via web post) | Start 
  

I've heard Hindus outside of the Indian Subcontinent such as in 
Bali referred to as expatriates. In other words they or their 
ancestors migrated from India. Just as Jews migrated from Israel. But India is 
considered the ancestral homeland. India also at one time incorporated more than 
what we currently call India. Pakistan all the way to Burma was at one time 
referred to as Bharat, or India. The very word Hindu came from what people were 
called that came from the Indus river civilization. They were called 
Indus.  
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/26/06 9:02:35 A.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
A good 
  point. Can you point to any other religion on > the planet that has a 
  nation specifically reserved> as (or even considered as) "home" to 
  members of that > religion?Not sure, but some Native American 
  tribal religionsmight qualify, at least in terms of certain regionsof 
  what became the United States. It may be trueof some African tribal 
  religions as well, perhapsothers here and there.The thing is that 
  Jews are historically a *tribe*,rather than just a group of folks who 
  believe inthe same religion (and the tribe includes secularJews). 
  Tribes do tend to have homelands.

I would bet Hindus would consider India their traditional 
homeland.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/26/06 12:12:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So the 
  Muslims who have the same mitochondria as the Palestinian Jews aren't really 
  don't belong there because they're of the wrong 
religion?

Culture
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/26/06 12:05:45 A.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Unlike 
  the Jews, who entered Israel from Egypt the first time around, according to 
  their people's legends?

And lived there for some 2000 years.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/25/06 10:09:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The term 
  'plastenian people' was made up and used by the media in the last 15 years 
  or so.All those Arabs, who now call themselves "Palestinians" etc. are 
  in fact scavengers who invaded Israel from Egypt, Syria, Lebanon 
  etc

Well, I would say all, but most. There are accounts of people such as Mark 
Twain that visited Palestine and Jerusalem in the 1800's and their comments were 
how baron and sparse the land was and so few people even attempted to live 
there. Since the 1880's Jews started moving back into the area of Palestine in 
hopes of reclaiming the land and Israel. The land was mostly swamps 
and desert and almost worthless, only a few Arabs had been living 
there that could really call themselves Palestinian Arabs. As the Jews started 
to reclaim the land and make it productive Arabs started moving in seeking jobs 
on these productive farms and businesses the Jews were starting up. Yes, they 
were moving in from Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Egypt. 
.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-25 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/25/06 10:31:13 A.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Of 
  course it is... That's why the UN gave Israel to the Jews, so they could then 
  destroy it by creating Paelstine...

Arabs living in what is now Israel were offered a homeland they could call 
Palestine in 1948.  They refused it on the advice of all the other Arab 
countries in the region who said they would destroy Israel and let them have 
everything. This is in addition to Trans Jordan which was meant by the British 
to be the homeland for Palestinian Arabs. Arabs in that region have been offered 
so many times a Palestinian homeland and have rejected everyone of them because 
they want all of Israel or nothing at all.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-25 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/25/06 6:39:51 A.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED].. wrote:>> > In a message dated 7/24/06 
  10:02:11 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > larry.potter@... 
  writes:> > If the Palestinians are indeed a myth, then the real 
  question > becomes "Why?" Why invent an imaginary people? The answer 
  is, the > myth of the Palestinian people serves as the justification 
  for the > Arab occupation of the Land of Israel. While the Arabs 
  already > possess 21 sovereign countries of their own (more than any 
  other > people on earth) and control a land mass 800 times the size of 
  the > Land of Israel, this is apparently not enough for them. They 
  > therefore feel the need to rob the Jews of their one and only 
  > country, one of the smallest on the planet. Unfortunately, many 
  > people ignorant of the history of the region, including much of 
  the > world media, are only too willing to help.> > 
  Yehezkel Bin-Nun 2002> > > > It was always an 
  Arab/ Israeli conflict until the sixties then it was > repackaged 
  into an Israeli/ Palestinian conflict to gain sympathy for the Arab 
  > cause to drive Israel into the sea.>>Israel never 
  existed until 1949, and then the Jewish Palestinians annexed a huge area 
  and called it Israel, then put the Arab Palestinians into Apartheid and 
  caused many of the live in Lebanon.THIS IS FROM THE US DEPARTMENT OF 
  STATE's OWN WEBSITE:""The creation of the State of Israel in 1948 was 
  preceded by more than 50 years of efforts to establish a sovereign nation 
  as a homeland for Jews. These efforts were initiated by Theodore Herzl, 
  founder of the Zionist movement, and were given added impetus by the 
  Balfour Declaration of 1917, which asserted the British Government's 
  support for the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine."""http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3581.htm

Damn OffWorld, You are so thick! I'm not going to bother to explain it to 
you again. If you want to see the history of the region take a look here.History of Israel and Palestine 
in VERY Easy To Understand Maps PLO leader: There is no 
Palestinian nation; it is an invention to destroy Isra 

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-25 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/25/06 12:14:34 A.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> It 
  was always an Arab/ Israeli conflict until the sixties then it > was 
  > > repackaged into an Israeli/ Palestinian conflict to gain 
  sympathy > for the Arab > > cause to drive Israel into the 
  sea.> >> > Ditto.>Hmmm, so the presence 
  of the Palestinians didn't enter into the situation until the 1967 
  war?

Spair, take a look at these links , it sure beats typing it all out.History of Israel and Palestine 
in VERY Easy To Understand Maps PLO leader: There is no 
Palestinian nation; it is an invention to destroy Isra 

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-24 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/24/06 10:52:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
--- In 
  FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED].. wrote:>> > In a message dated 7/24/06 
  9:58:41 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED]s.com 
  writes:> > > You have been brainwashed. > 
  

PLO leader: There is no 
Palestinian nation; it is an invention to destroy Isra 

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-24 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/24/06 10:02:11 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If the 
  Palestinians are indeed a myth, then the real question becomes "Why?" Why 
  invent an imaginary people? The answer is, the myth of the Palestinian 
  people serves as the justification for the Arab occupation of the Land of 
  Israel. While the Arabs already possess 21 sovereign countries of their 
  own (more than any other people on earth) and control a land mass 800 
  times the size of the Land of Israel, this is apparently not enough for 
  them. They therefore feel the need to rob the Jews of their one and only 
  country, one of the smallest on the planet. Unfortunately, many people 
  ignorant of the history of the region, including much of the world media, 
  are only too willing to help.Yehezkel Bin-Nun 
2002

It was always an Arab/ Israeli conflict until the sixties then it was 
repackaged into an Israeli/ Palestinian conflict to gain sympathy for the Arab 
cause to drive Israel into the sea.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine

2006-07-24 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 7/24/06 9:58:41 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You 
  have been brainwashed. The British called the country they mandated in 
  1917 "Palestine". The League of Nations called it "Palestine". The Arabs 
  living there were referred to as Palestinian Arabs, the Jews living there 
  were referred to as Jewish Palestinians, even by themselves.You are 
  brainwashed and of low education.Map of the 1917 British Mandate 
  called "Palestine" by the British, French, Jews, Arabs, and the Americans 
  fo the time, later called "Palestine" by the League of Nations 
  (UN)Look at the map redneck. Do you see Isreal written anywhere on 
  there?http://tinyurl.com/kj6qeGet 
  an education.OffWorld

And it never was a Palestinian nation only a Palestinian Region. Trans 
Jordan was the original intended Homeland for the Palestinian Arab.History of Israel and Palestine 
in VERY Easy To Understand Maps 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Palestine people do not exist....

2005-08-10 Thread Vaj

On Aug 9, 2005, at 10:13 PM, Rory Goff wrote:

> Only the remaining 10 to 20 percent are Sephardic, who actually
> *did* originate in or near the region now known as Israel, and who
> (I have read) are currently treated as distinctly second-class
> citizens in Israel.

Well Sephardim are *Spanish* Jews. Since the diaspora in Spain occurred 
in 1492, I would bet many of these are from that dispersion, esp. since 
many then found refuge in Italy, Sicily and Turkey.



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