Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count Sat 20-Apr-13 00:15:02 UTC
Ann, I admit I chuckled when you say below that my description sounds contradictory and then you say that Robin is very certain within his uncertainty. I conclude that we both understand paradox. A while ago Robin told Curtis that he wants a reconciliation with me and I also want a reconciliation between us. But neither of us appreciates how the other person apologizes so I'm not sure how that would work! Nonetheless I remain available for and open to reconciliation and THAT is the action I do beyond wishing Robin happiness and well being. I stay engaged with him whereas he was the one who disengaged from our last exchange. Fine, his right to do so, etc., and perhaps that is his way of reconciling. I think we're both doing our best. Though Robin did say something recently about wanting more development so probably he disagrees with this. I asked him about it but he disengaged without replying. Anyway, it just might be as I was saying to Robin towards the end of our interactions last year: that we're simply two people too different from one another to have a viable friendship. Perhaps we've come to this understanding each on our own and a reconciliation of sorts already exists! This reply is very different from the reply I wrote 2 days ago. But it is an expression of my thoughts and feelings now. Just as last year my various so called discrepancies were expressions of my thoughts and feelings as I rode out a very challenging experience and came to different insights about it. So much so that even recently when Robin was attributing thoughts and feelings to me that I wasn't having, it didn't bother me. So in this sense, there has been change I think, and positive change at that. But I could be wrong and am confident that if I am, life will straighten me out one way or the other (-: BTW, an access number for that beautiful Jan 2012 poem from merudanda about Robin coming to FFL to heal is 302666. From: Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 8:32 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count Sat 20-Apr-13 00:15:02 UTC --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Ann, I was of course joking about totally restored as I was never unrestored, grin. And I'm glad we're having this exchange. It sounds like you're saying that in his psychological rape comment to Curtis about you, Robin was being both ironic and straight forward. Perhaps it's easier to deal with such a communication style when one has known the person, well, in person. And when one is not emotionally upset and overwhelmed. Perhaps. Having read it probably many years prior, my initial use of the phrase psychological rape was spontaneous, said in a moment of upset and yet felt spot on. This was later validated for me by Lord Knows and the Howells who have also attested to the long lasting harm of such encounters even though they are not physical rapesuch as you describe below. Ah, but only you know what your situation/perception was, not LK or the Howells. And only they know what their experience was back in the 80's and you don't. So, to be able to compare doesn't seem possible. That doesn't mean LK and the Howells didn't THINK it was the same based on your posts with Robin. But ultimately Share, you need to figure it out on your own. You may have thought the interaction was a big deal, but the aftermath became much bigger. And perhaps this is the element that you need to concentrate on Yes, it's true that Robin apologized. As did I, in the very next sentence of my original upsetting post. And I said I was willing to work things out. But he rejected both the apology and the offer. Two things here. First, I do not remember all of the details of this interaction, all of the phases of it. I am not particularly inspired to look it all up. Your memory may or may not be faulty and perhaps you have already re-read the posts pertaining to all of this and if not I suggest you do. Second, I believe that any rejection you believe Robin made toward your apology and whatever offer you made may not have been as cut and dried as you think. I would venture to say he was not rejecting YOU, he was perhaps rejecting the FORM your apology was taking. Maybe he felt it was somehow short circuited or lacked the necessary movement within yourself to have made it truly meaningful. I am not going to second guess him and, as I said, I have not gone back to re-read any of this since I first saw it when it happened back in September.  And he continued to deliver apologies that were obscured by both over analyzing and blaming me. Plus he wasn't willing to work it out offline. Anyway, I think we both made errors in the handling of a very emotional situation. Again, I am not the person to verify any of this. Judy would do a much better
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count Sat 20-Apr-13 00:15:02 UTC
Ann: there are two kinds of people when it comes to Robin; those that 'get' him and those that simply will never get past a combination of puzzlement and reaction to him. Share to Ann: I usually question such a polarizing idea. I don't think such polarities serve the well being of anyone, especially the one about whom they are spoken. They imply an us and them, just for starters. And as the words puzzlement and reaction carry somewhat negative connotations, then it is implied that those who aren't in this category, that is, those who get him are the ones in the positive realm in this context. Along with this is the idea that Robin is unique. But since we all are, maybe what you're saying is that he is especially unique, more unique than the rest of us, or unique in a better way? But again, I wonder if such labels, especially if they go unchallenged, I wonder if they really serve the well being of anyone, including the one to whom they are applied. As for willingness to take life's ride, I'm content to let my unfolding track record here speak for me. From: Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 9:01 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count Sat 20-Apr-13 00:15:02 UTC --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Ann, I admit I chuckled when you say below that my description sounds contradictory and then you say that Robin is very certain within his uncertainty. I conclude that we both understand paradox. Perhaps a sort of paradox but also a sort of duality where he remains constantly open to new input (so in a way he is illustrating a kind of uncertainness) and is merely certain that he has to be this way -open to the feedback of life. It is a state of constant movement as I see it although the perceiver himself can remain still but keeps the gate open for constant feedback from the outside (and inside). That feedback back and forth from perceiver to environment, environment to perceiver is the flow, the movement. A while ago Robin told Curtis that he wants a reconciliation with me and I also want a reconciliation between us. But neither of us appreciates how the other person apologizes so I'm not sure how that would work! Nonetheless I remain available for and open to reconciliation and THAT is the action I do beyond wishing Robin happiness and well being. I stay engaged with him whereas he was the one who disengaged from our last exchange. Fine, his right to do so, etc., and perhaps that is his way of reconciling. I think we're both doing our best. Though Robin did say something recently about wanting more development so probably he disagrees with this. I asked him about it but he disengaged without replying. Anyway, it just might be as I was saying to Robin towards the end of our interactions last year: that we're simply two people too different from one another to have a viable friendship. I think that you have hit upon something that is true here, or could be. In my experience there are two kinds of people when it comes to Robin; those that 'get' him and those that simply will never get past a combination of puzzlement and reaction to him. It is as if he lives on this slightly different frequency where if you venture there you are either discombobulated and can't exit fast enough or you look around and sort of wonder at it all while at the same time appreciating the slight strangeness of it. It can cause you to have to move a little further into areas you are not used to exploring. That doesn't mean I always agree or even understand what it means to 'get to' where Robin functions from but it is unique.  Perhaps we've come to this understanding each on our own and a reconciliation of sorts already exists! That's a good way to look at it. Perhaps the reconciliation isn't happening BETWEEN the two of you but within, individually, each one of you so it is finished on some level - at least on that other subject. And there simply may not be the opportunity or means for this to happen in the future anyway so you are going to have to accept that as it is now, is how it has to be until if and when you can communicate again and that communication may never touch upon this particular subject - directly - again. This reply is very different from the reply I wrote 2 days ago. But it is an expression of my thoughts and feelings now. Just as last year my various so called discrepancies were expressions of my thoughts and feelings as I rode out a very challenging experience and came to different insights about it. So much so that even recently when Robin was attributing thoughts and feelings to me that I wasn't having, it didn't bother me. So in this sense, there has been change I think, and positive change at that. But I could be wrong and am confident
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count Sat 20-Apr-13 00:15:02 UTC
Ann, I was of course joking about totally restored as I was never unrestored, grin. And I'm glad we're having this exchange. It sounds like you're saying that in his psychological rape comment to Curtis about you, Robin was being both ironic and straight forward. Perhaps it's easier to deal with such a communication style when one has known the person, well, in person. And when one is not emotionally upset and overwhelmed. Having read it probably many years prior, my initial use of the phrase psychological rape was spontaneous, said in a moment of upset and yet felt spot on. This was later validated for me by Lord Knows and the Howells who have also attested to the long lasting harm of such encounters even though they are not physical rapesuch as you describe below. Yes, it's true that Robin apologized. As did I, in the very next sentence of my original upsetting post. And I said I was willing to work things out. But he rejected both the apology and the offer. And he continued to deliver apologies that were obscured by both over analyzing and blaming me. Plus he wasn't willing to work it out offline. Anyway, I think we both made errors in the handling of a very emotional situation. Yes, I agree that people attribute thoughts and feelings to others a lot here. I think it feels invasive with Robin because of several factors: he often does the attributing subtly and indirectly; he does it a lot; and last but not least, he does it with such unquestioned certainty. Plus he often sounds like he feels justified or even called to do it. The only other poster who sounds similar is Judy. Yes, I agree that both the Sept 6 upset and the psychological rape upset have been blown out of proportion. But the blowers were many! I'm sorry for the loss of your sister and in such a horrible way. It must have been devastating for your whole family, especially your Mom. I'm pretty sure I've accepted my own part in all this. And that I'm sensible enough to attend appropriately to what, as you say, others might currently be up to. Otherwise there might be another psychological rape! Now of course I can see it coming and move out of harm's way. I very much regret a creepy cult leader comment I made to Robin. I was very upset by his insensitive response to something especially nasty RD had written. In the beginning Robin appeared so invulnerable. But I've come to realize that he is just like the rest of us in being subject to the conditions inside his own skull. I really really wish he did not have to suffer for 26 years to deconstruct his hallucinatory Unity. There is, in the archives, I believe in January 2011, a sweet poem from merudanda expressing the idea that Robin came to FFL for healing. So I wasn't the first person here to wish that for him. And I will continue to wish it. From: Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 9:11 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count Sat 20-Apr-13 00:15:02 UTC --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Ann, I've been working on this during Saturday morning, as I can. I do read your posts. Sometimes I skim longer posts no matter who the poster is. Anyway, I especially chortled at your quip about my fat ball working so good that you're calling it my mind. And my faith in humanity etc. was totally restored by your recent posts to Steve and your humorous but unmalicious comments to various peeps Totally restored, well that is no small thing. Imagine. But, did I also make you totally lose your faith in humanity? At any rate, I am glad you are feeling better about the human race and about me. . Plus the wonderful exchange between you and Xeno. Yes, that was a good exercise for me and with someone who I find is without intent to smack you down while interacting. That can be a nice reprieve around here sometimes. Now, about past posts as you discuss below, what to say? I think you also made some good points and were IMO writing in a balanced way which I appreciate a lot.    But perhaps we should cut to the chase about my accusing Robin of psychological rape. BTW, did you notice that in a recent exchange with Curtis Robin himself used that term in relation to you? But maybe he was being ironic. I often can't tell. I just looked that paragraph up and he was being ironic but he was also giving a nod, a quiet acknowledgment of what he knows I went through, what many went through and consequently (my reading) what he has gone through. I do not think Robin is under any delusions about the power of what many experienced during their time 25-35 years ago that was often hurtful and even damaging. It is a complex subject Share, and a personal one. And did you see where Judy said to Steve that sometimes Robin pushes people so that they
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count Sat 20-Apr-13 00:15:02 UTC
Buck, congratulations about the new lambs. Now about this FFL as European soccer league suggestion, here's another idea: DON'T READ THE POSTERS YOU HAVEN'T ENJOYED READING IN THE PAST! Duh! Bob's your uncle! I threw in that last sentence because I learned it from my British buddy and Britain is sort of European. Also dear Buck, there has been a local pizza chain in Iowa City called Bob's Your Uncle. All in all, everything's nicely unified dontcha think? Waving at you from Bamgambhrini, Share behind the Sweet Spot From: Buck dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 11:09 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count Sat 20-Apr-13 00:15:02 UTC Dear FFL owner; how's about if you won't drop the post limit to 30 posts per week and thereby improve the posting environment here that way we then treat this problem here like they do in European soccer leagues and send top posters to the bottom league and bring some bottom posters to the top. [?] Like, look at last week's top posters. Out of common courtesy anyone with any decency would have taken their personal bickering and conversation like that off-list between themselves privately. But say to protect the FFL list we proactively re-set the postings such that the top posters, say the top three (3) posters and send them to the bottom for the next week; of any one week that the preceding week's top three posters make only posts just as much as the bottom three posters of the preceding week here. Alex and Bhairitu could probably figure out some script to make it work. That works in keeping interest, improving and constantly re-enlivening soccer in Europe. It would proly help protect the flow of FFL threads from the burying and dilution these people bring to the list with their personal stuff. Jai Guru Dev, -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, FFL PostCount ffl.postcount@... wrote: Fairfield Life Post Counter === Start Date (UTC): 04/13/13 00:00:00 End Date (UTC): 04/20/13 00:00:00 701 messages as of (UTC) 04/19/13 23:38:04 50 seventhray27 50 authfriend 48 Share Long 48 Ravi Chivukula 47 doctordumbass 47 Ann 43 Buck 43 Bhairitu 41 Richard J. Williams 35 turquoiseb 32 Michael Jackson 29 card 25 salyavin808 19 Alex Stanley 16 nablusoss1008 16 Xenophaneros Anartaxius 16 Mike Dixon 16 John 16 Carol 11 curtisdeltablues 9 laughinggull108 6 sparaig 6 feste37 4 merlin 4 azgrey 4 Yifu 4 Rick Archer 3 raunchydog 3 merudanda 3 PaliGap 1 ultrarishi 1 WLeed3 1 Susan 1 Mike Doughney 1 Goddess Ninmah 1 Duveyoung 1 Dick Mays Posters: 37 Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times = Daylight Saving Time (Summer): US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM Standard Time (Winter): US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count Sat 20-Apr-13 00:15:02 UTC
Ann, I've been working on this during Saturday morning, as I can. I do read your posts. Sometimes I skim longer posts no matter who the poster is. Anyway, I especially chortled at your quip about my fat ball working so good that you're calling it my mind. And my faith in humanity etc. was totally restored by your recent posts to Steve and your humorous but unmalicious comments to various peeps. Plus the wonderful exchange between you and Xeno. Now, about past posts as you discuss below, what to say? I think you also made some good points and were IMO writing in a balanced way which I appreciate a lot. But perhaps we should cut to the chase about my accusing Robin of psychological rape. BTW, did you notice that in a recent exchange with Curtis Robin himself used that term in relation to you? But maybe he was being ironic. I often can't tell. And did you see where Judy said to Steve that sometimes Robin pushes people so that they become more interesting to interact with? With reference to that, I would say that psychological rape is pushing WAY too much. And as I said last year, what I meant by psychological rape is that Robin continually and without equivocation, attributed thoughts and feelings to me that I wasn't having. That's still how I define psychological rape and I still think Robin was doing that then. OTOH I wish I hadn't got so upset with him then and also on Sept 6. I also wish that he had acted differently. I also wish that Judy had acted differently, and you and Emily and Ravi and RD. I now realize that we were all doing the best that we could. And I think you and Emily and I would act differently now because I've seen us do just that. I definitely don't think Judy would act differently. And I'm not sure if Robin would act differently. Questions: what do YOU think I should do at this point, especially given what you and Robin think about my apologies? And do you think any attempt at reconciliation should be done online or offline? Share Part of what Ann wrote in thread called parsing a la FFL archives: I agree that posts are a snapshot in time of a moment, an opinion, a reaction, an interaction, belief or emotion or a combination of the above. A post was/could be valid for whoever wrote it at the time they were writing. Posts are not something that need to haunt, condemn or limit us as human beings. We can change our minds, our views; our emotions come and go (as you state below). I think what I object to on occasion, and this applies generally, is when someone fails to admit that they did say something or were feeling a certain way as clearly evidenced by their thoughts in words in their writing. One can regret having written something or they can explain it or they can admit certain things or they can fight like crazy to try and make it seem like the post was somehow 'lying'. I am someone who likes others to be truthful about their motives or their opinions and to admit if these have changed or were, in fact, what they appeared to be at the time of their posting. If there was a misunderstanding between posters then work it out. I think 25% of what become arguments here are based on misunderstandings and not some malevolent intention by members here. snip I think Judy has a very clear and analytical mind. I would want her on my side if it came down to a court of law and I was on trial. But I don't think Judy believes Robin to have been helpless victim in your interaction. From: Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 9:01 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count Sat 20-Apr-13 00:15:02 UTC --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Buck, congratulations about the new lambs. Now about this FFL as European soccer league suggestion, here's another idea: DON'T READ THE POSTERS YOU HAVEN'T ENJOYED READING IN THE PAST! Ah, but where is your optimism for the future? Your faith in humanity? Your willingness to be shown a former curmudgeon is, in fact, a really kind and loving person? Does this mean you might be left with only person's posts to read in a few weeks? Is this what a true warrior princess would do? Does this mean you don't read my posts?! Or are you just giving Buck sage advice? (Just goofing around with you Share, don't take me seriously.)  Duh! Bob's your uncle! I threw in that last sentence because I learned it from my British buddy and Britain is sort of European. Also dear Buck, there has been a local pizza chain in Iowa City called Bob's Your Uncle. All in all, everything's nicely unified dontcha think? Waving at you from Bamgambhrini, Share behind the Sweet Spot ___ From: Buck dhamiltony2k5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 11:09 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count
