Re: Translation
On Sun, 2003-10-05 at 00:28, Peyman wrote: > Persian has one of the most productive word formation systems. I would appreciate seeing some statistics to back that up, like you have done with the verbs. Do you have any? roozbeh ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
Re: Translation
On Sat, 2003-10-04 at 12:29, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > Well, you're probably right, but then the suffixes are going to > lose all their meaning as a suffix. After a while there would be > no common sense between words ending with "ak"... (and yes, there > would be no suffix, some new words). Guest what? The suffixes have already lost their meanings. This same "-ak" is a good example. You want language control and mathematical semantics, which is more than impossible with a language like Persian, IMHO. > "-gaan" is not anything special, it's just "aan" for plural, > joined to a word ending with "hah-e naamalfooz". Just like > "saadegaan". So it means "datas". But again AFAIK "data" and > "daade" are both plurals. Don't know about "paadegaan". I am sorry, I am not talking about *that* "-gaan". I'm *only* talking about the "-gaan" in "paadegaan". > > That's an abbreviation: FTP = "gharaardaad-e enteghaal-e parvande": > > "gheyn", "alef", "pe". If you have problems with abbreviations, don't > > use them. > > And write "gharaardaad-e enteghaal-e parvande" everywhere? Write "FTP" if you like, or whatever you prefer. Go with "fetepe" if you like that. Or call it "chiz" ;-) You're definitely not bound by any of the requirements of the Academy. > > This is the translation of the "Redo" menu, not the action of > > "redo"-ing. I agree that it's not that good, but I've not seen many good > > ones. Your suggestion? > > "az no" reminds me of "reset" in forms. "dobaare" and "tekraar" > may have the same meaning as "az no", but do it better, again > IMHO. At last something I can pass. I'll ask the guys. > > > * scroll -> "navardidan"! > > > > The problem? Your suggestion? > > "navardidan" is completely another word, isn't? It do not hold > the feeling of rolling in a single direction, and it contains a > sense of a challenge, that cannot be ignored. My suggestion? > Good question. OK, from my Moaser Persian Dictionary: "[adabi] dar mohit, mantaghe, yaa masiri harekat kardan va az noghte-i be noghte-ye digar-e aan raftan". I can't see the sense of challenge there. I agree that it's not "scrolling" exactly, but what translation has the exact senses of its original word? Time will give all the senses to it. > > > * output (device) -> "khorooji" > > > (Isn't "khorooji" also a noun in Persian?) > > > > It's *only* a noun in Persian, as far as I can tell. I'm not getting > > what you mean. Would you explain? From what I get, is that they are > > translating the "output" of a program as "boroon-daad", but an "output" > > device as "dastgaah-e khorooji". > > Exactly. What is the problem then? > The problem is that, they are misusing their power to decide for > the language! They have been asked to do so. We need an authority for the language. American English has Merriam-Webster, British English has Oxford, German has Duden, and French has its Academie. They are trying their best to provide authority. As far as I can tell, they are coming to a point of good output. Well, I could never ever think about defending the Academy, but I'm doing that. Why? First, because they're having some good-enough output (which, well, you don't agree to, which I can understand). But second, because I've seen the anarchy out here, everyone considering himself/herself the authority, without even consulting the references. Haven't you? Aren't we on the same front exactly because of that? > You and I could have been decide on many > technicall matters, and spread it all around the world by coding > that here and there. But we have never done that so to decide > for others. We have never done that, since we know our work is not authoritative enough. Because it has not been the result of a consensus of experts. Academy's output is partially the result of such a consensus. > Better the propose words and wait some 5 or 10 > years, and decide if that can be settled. "rayane" is setteled > down. But the way they do it, they force many bodies to follow > their word. Well, these are not exactly *new* words. The words have been around and used for a long time by some translators. ISI's word list (masterminded by Dr Mashayekh) is the main source for these, as is Mohammadifar's Computer Dictionary (published by Moaser), and the entrepreneurial works of Dr Rohani-Rankoohi and Dr Badi', all of whom are members of the computer terms committee (with a few other people). I can't say they haven't seen all the references: they have. I've talked all of them (but Dr Rohani-Rankoohi) on different matters, and I know they don't move an inch in these waters without contacting every reference they can find on the matter. It's easy to start calling them "fossil"s, as we young people love to do, and close their dossier so easily, but we need to separate real work from just inventing random words (like some people we know have been doing). I really believe you should provide feedback to the Academy, and see what reasons they have. I'm m
persian-language.org
Hi, Was googling around, found the above site by chance. Connie should be most interested one in that. Connie: Do you go by convincing to correct their YEHs? BTW, seems that there are still sites that we have not found yet... behdad ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
Re: persian-language.org
On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > Was googling around, found the above site by chance. Uhh, what site? -Connie ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
Re: persian-language.org
On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, C Bobroff wrote: > > On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > > Was googling around, found the above site by chance. > Uhh, what site? Hey Mr Connie Genius, The subject line ;). http://www.persian-language.org/ > -Connie behdad ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
Re: persian-language.org
> > On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > Hey Mr Connie Genius, > The subject line ;). > http://www.persian-language.org/ Hehe. It's not for nothin' I'm called "Mr Connie Genius"! Yeah, I knew what was coming as I was treated to those 2 beautiful final dots of "farsi" in the of the page long before the page actually loaded! So what action should be taken here ? Shall I send a nastygram to the webmaster written on the official stationery of the Dots Police? I was even thinking of opening up a Yeh Museum the other day. If I can get folks to scan and email me these specimens of announcements/invitations on printed paper with the Arabic Yeh's I will create a beautiful photo gallery as a tribute to this historic phenomonon! I mean it--send them in. It'll be cool! Actuallyand I'm risking exposing more of my genius tendancies hereI wanted to ask what I misunderstood along the line because I was under the impression that search engines or any search tool had been instructed to consider Arabic and Persian Yeh's to be the same. Yet it is a sad fact that if you do a Google search for a Persian word with final yeh, you'd better use the Arabic yeh. -Connie ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
Re: persian-language.org
On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, C Bobroff wrote: > > > On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > > Hey Mr Connie Genius, > > The subject line ;). > > http://www.persian-language.org/ > Hehe. It's not for nothin' I'm called "Mr Connie Genius"! Ever considered having a nick name of Joe? See: "Mr Joe Genius". > Yeah, I knew what was coming as I was treated to those 2 beautiful final > dots of "farsi" in the of the page long before the page actually > loaded! > > So what action should be taken here ? Shall I send a nastygram to the > webmaster written on the official stationery of the Dots Police? Tell them you are going to put them in your black list if they don't act in 24 hours. Don't forget to tell them that as a consequence, most major proxies around the world (not in Iran!) would block their site. > I was even thinking of opening up a Yeh Museum the other day. If I can get > folks to scan and email me these specimens of announcements/invitations on > printed paper with the Arabic Yeh's I will create a beautiful photo > gallery as a tribute to this historic phenomonon! I mean it--send them in. > It'll be cool! Roozbeh has a nice masterpiece for you musuem, but that's not dot related. A bidi problem, printed 001 instead of 100. > Actuallyand I'm risking exposing more of my genius tendancies > hereI wanted to ask what I misunderstood along the line because I was > under the impression that search engines or any search tool had been > instructed to consider Arabic and Persian Yeh's to be the same. Yet it is > a sad fact that if you do a Google search for a Persian word with final > yeh, you'd better use the Arabic yeh. They do NOT do special handling this. > -Connie behdad, which is going to study after finishing this mail. ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
Re: persian-language.org
> Ever considered having a nick name of Joe? See: "Mr Joe Genius". Those Qazvini's really like my name and I've had a lot of fun with it, and it has generated much laughter and good-will, therefore it stays. > Tell them you are going to put them in your black list if they > don't act in 24 hours. Don't forget to tell them that as a > consequence, most major proxies around the world (not in Iran!) > would block their site. Got it. Will do. > Roozbeh has a nice masterpiece for you musuem, but that's not dot > related. A bidi problem, printed 001 instead of 100. There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't. > They do NOT do special handling this. Well, maybe it's time for a re-think on this. -Connie ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
Re: persian-language.org
On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, C Bobroff wrote: > > Ever considered having a nick name of Joe? See: "Mr Joe Genius". > Those Qazvini's really like my name and I've had a lot of fun with it, and > it has generated much laughter and good-will, therefore it stays. :) Good luck then. "baalaam jaan khob esmi daari" ;). > > Tell them you are going to put them in your black list if they > > don't act in 24 hours. Don't forget to tell them that as a > > consequence, most major proxies around the world (not in Iran!) > > would block their site. > > Got it. Will do. > > > Roozbeh has a nice masterpiece for you musuem, but that's not dot > > related. A bidi problem, printed 001 instead of 100. > > There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and > those who don't. And whatever radix you use, 10*10=100! Think about that :> > > They do NOT do special handling this. > Well, maybe it's time for a re-think on this. Take a break every 24 hours. > -Connie behdad, which is going to study after finishing this mail. ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
Re: persian-language.org
On Mon, 2003-10-06 at 01:37, C Bobroff wrote: > Actuallyand I'm risking exposing more of my genius tendancies > hereI wanted to ask what I misunderstood along the line because I was > under the impression that search engines or any search tool had been > instructed to consider Arabic and Persian Yeh's to be the same. They *could* be instructed. Google is very bad in linguistics, specially when considering Persian. > Yet it is > a sad fact that if you do a Google search for a Persian word with final > yeh, you'd better use the Arabic yeh. Really, you'd better use both :(( roozbeh ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
