Re: Unicode in new IRNA site

2003-08-27 Thread C Bobroff
 You know, everybody who's caring and sane enough to proofread, makes
 sure these don't appear on paper (or sometimes on the computer screen),
 but again, not all of these people care what it is that's stored in
 their computers.

On the other hand, how much time it looks like they put into the
proofreading  may be a convenient way to tell if the content is
worth reading!

By the way, I just visited the BBC Persian site. In one article they were
using the Arabic Kaf and in another the Persian Keheh. That would explain
the conflicting reports on the Yeh. Looks like they have more than one
typist on the staff.

-Connie

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Re: Unicode in new IRNA site

2003-08-27 Thread C Bobroff
  By the way, I just visited the BBC Persian site. In one article they were
  using the Arabic Kaf and in another the Persian Keheh.

 It should be called the Persian Kaf. Keheh is just a random identifier,
 but the best available since it's the Unicode name. So, either Persian
 Kaf or Keheh in my opinion. And the second only for people who
 understand Unispeak.

sigh
I had written Keheh but then went back and added Persian to be
clearer...
In any case, whatever you call it, they were using the Arabic counterpart.
-Connie

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Re: Unicode in new IRNA site

2003-08-26 Thread C Bobroff
 They do get under the skin, yes, but it's a little worse than that if
 you start seeing the two little dots everyday on announcements,
 printouts, ads, ... It will get to your {maghz-e ostekhaan}.

Oh dear! You sound like an advanced case. I will schedule you for a
bone-marrow transplant right away.

Just don't tell me the calligraphers have also joined the band-wagon and
are now putting the dots!

-Connie

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Re: Unicode in new IRNA site

2003-08-26 Thread Roozbeh Pournader
On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 09:50, C Bobroff wrote:
 Just don't tell me the calligraphers have also joined the band-wagon and
 are now putting the dots!

Fortunately they're not.

You know, everybody who's caring and sane enough to proofread, makes
sure these don't appear on paper (or sometimes on the computer screen),
but again, not all of these people care what it is that's stored in
their computers.

roozbeh


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Re: Unicode in new IRNA site

2003-08-25 Thread Roozbeh Pournader
On Sun, 2003-08-24 at 22:16, C Bobroff wrote:
 But then once you do notice,
 then you REALLY notice. Those two little dots get under your skin and it
 starts to fester. You start to ONLY see the dots and the rest of the
 content becomes a blur. Insanity is imminent. The only solution: Immediate
 surgical removal of the dots using the latest Search/Replace technology.

They do get under the skin, yes, but it's a little worse than that if
you start seeing the two little dots everyday on announcements,
printouts, ads, ... It will get to your {maghz-e ostekhaan}.

roozbeh


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Re: Unicode in new IRNA site

2003-08-24 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
Behdad's Law: Connie is an optimist.

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, C Bobroff wrote:

   What should we do about this?
 Go stand up on your roof and shout:
 The fonts have been repaired! It's now ok to use Arabic Letter Farsi Yeh
 U+06CC!!
 
 But as far as I know, BBC has never been one of the offenders although I'm
 too lazy at the moment to check that and the other site  mentioned
 earlier.  Anyhow, the default fontsize is usually too small to even see
 those nasty dots not to mention the Yeh itself.
 
 Why don't you do a survey and check some sites today and then check
 back again in a couple of months.  Chances are, your having started this
 thread (and the one last week) will have served as a wake-up call. Perhaps
 that's all that was needed!
 
 -Connie
 
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Behdad Esfahbod 2 Shahrivar 1382, 2003 Aug 24 
http://behdad.org/  [Finger for Geek Code]

If you do a job too well, you'll get stuck with it.

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Re: Unicode in new IRNA site

2003-08-24 Thread C Bobroff
 Behdad's Law: Connie is an optimist.
If you please! You need to trust Mr. Connie Genius on this one and keep
the faith. This is just a case of public awareness. As long as you don't
notice those dots, everything is blissful. Maybe they are just stray
marks? Maybe your screen just needs cleaning? But then once you do notice,
then you REALLY notice. Those two little dots get under your skin and it
starts to fester. You start to ONLY see the dots and the rest of the
content becomes a blur. Insanity is imminent. The only solution: Immediate
surgical removal of the dots using the latest Search/Replace technology.
-Connie

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Re: Unicode in new IRNA site

2003-08-22 Thread C Bobroff
 ... so many
 sites are using wrong characters. It certainly affects the search
 engines.

Hehe. The humans don't seem to notice but the search engines balk. Seems
like it should be the reverse!

By the way, this is yet another reason I offer up thanks to Roozbeh,
Behnam (and others) for the new Persian keyboard as the Arabic Yeh is
only a convenient Shift key away and makes for much more fruitful Google
searches!

-Connie


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Re: Unicode in new IRNA site

2003-08-22 Thread Ali A Khanban
C Bobroff wrote:

By the way, this is yet another reason I offer up thanks to Roozbeh,

Behnam (and others) for the new Persian keyboard as the Arabic Yeh is
only a convenient Shift key away and makes for much more fruitful Google
searches!
 

But it seems some big Persian sites do not have or use or care about the 
new keyboard and new fonts. What should we do about this?

Best
-ali-
--

||   Ali Asghar Khanban
|| ||Research Associate in Department of Computing
|||  Imperial College London, London SW7 2BZ, U.K.
||   Tel: +44 (020) 7594 8241 Fax: +1 (509) 694 0599
|||  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~khanban

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Re: Unicode in new IRNA site

2003-08-22 Thread C Bobroff
  What should we do about this?
Go stand up on your roof and shout:
The fonts have been repaired! It's now ok to use Arabic Letter Farsi Yeh
U+06CC!!

But as far as I know, BBC has never been one of the offenders although I'm
too lazy at the moment to check that and the other site  mentioned
earlier.  Anyhow, the default fontsize is usually too small to even see
those nasty dots not to mention the Yeh itself.

Why don't you do a survey and check some sites today and then check
back again in a couple of months.  Chances are, your having started this
thread (and the one last week) will have served as a wake-up call. Perhaps
that's all that was needed!

-Connie

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Re: Unicode in new IRNA site

2003-08-22 Thread Roozbeh Pournader
On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 21:49, C Bobroff wrote:
 By the way, this is yet another reason I offer up thanks to Roozbeh,
 Behnam (and others) for the new Persian keyboard as the Arabic Yeh is
 only a convenient Shift key away and makes for much more fruitful Google
 searches!

Well, thank the original designers of ISIRI 2901:1994. They did it eight
years ago without even knowing the problem it's solving for you today.

roozbeh


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Re: Unicode in new IRNA site

2003-08-22 Thread C Bobroff
 Well, thank the original designers of ISIRI 2901:1994.
Thank you!

Hey, is there any chance Behnam can be coaxed into making a transliterated
keyboard based on the English layout? Not for me personally, mind you. It
appears to be a highly sought after accessory and I keep getting
inquiries. Behnam, what do you say?

Oh, I forgot to mention to Ali earlier that Yahoo messenger (and others?)
also has the Arabic Yeh problem. Those people maybe should be contacted as
they may not have representation among the silent lurkers and not know
there's a problem. Note, don't ask me to do it as I would undoubtedly tell
them something incorrect and botch things up even further.

-Connie


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Re: Unicode in new IRNA site

2003-08-22 Thread Roozbeh Pournader
On Sat, 2003-08-23 at 02:06, C Bobroff wrote:

 Oh, I forgot to mention to Ali earlier that Yahoo messenger (and others?)
 also has the Arabic Yeh problem. Those people maybe should be contacted as
 they may not have representation among the silent lurkers and not know
 there's a problem. Note, don't ask me to do it as I would undoubtedly tell
 them something incorrect and botch things up even further.

If you use Yahoo Messenger and care about Persian Yeh support, do it
yourself. If you don't, somebody who cares will do so eventually. If
nobody does so, it means nobody cares.

We were worrying about a bug with Persian data entry with the Mozilla
distributed in a *future* version of Red Hat Linux. Behnam wrote the bug
report, Behdad wrote the patch to fix the problem, and I lobbied like
hell. The fix got in just yesterday. Why did we do so? Because we use
the certain software frequently. We simply cared.

roozbeh


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Re: Unicode in new IRNA site

2003-08-22 Thread Roozbeh Pournader
On Sat, 2003-08-23 at 03:31, C Bobroff wrote:

 OK, I took up your challenge and just emailed Yahoo. Don't blame me when
 we discover they've replaced Arabic Yeh with CYRILLIC LETTER YA U+042F!

I don't like it. I wasn't challenging you. 'Was challenging the silent
lurkers.

roozbeh


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