Re: OT: Skin Problem
Good idea, ThanksKarolyn Lount [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, If you cover the carrier with a towel you do not have to worry aboutanything getting into your car.
Re: Hills food question...
My dog was on that for a while and then we found some commercial diet food with better ingredients (can't remember the name now, as for the past year +she has had cancer and came off the diet food and onto better quality all meat stuff, and has gained almost 20 pounds on it!). I think there are more diet foods for dogs than cats, but you might want to go to a pet food store (one that sells high quality stuff if there are any near you) or go to a site like Waggin Tails online, which sells high quality foods over the internet (don't know the URL but you should be able to find it by searching). Waggin Tails will communicate with you by email if you ask them if they have any good quality diet foods. Michelle
Re: Hills food question...
Actually, Wellness has a "lite" dry food and I think also wet foods. It is a good brand. My positive Jo got really fat at one point and I switches her to that. She got lymphoma shortly afterwards, though, so I started feeding her whatever she wanted at that point. I don't think the food switch had anything to do with the lymphoma and did not mean to imply it did, only saying that she did not have a chance to be on the Wellness lite for a long time. I think Innova may also have a lite food. Michelle
Re: when is FelV contagious?
Dear Susan: According to Dr. Pitcairn, in his book Natural Health for Dogs and Cats, there are six stages of infection for FeLV. He indicates that cats are not actively shedding the virus and infectious to other cats until they have reached stage five or six. Stage five is the point at which the virus infects the bone marrow and at this point a cat will remain viremic for the rest of its life. Stage six is the point at which a cat becomes significantly and seriously symptomatic and eventually crashes. So if you have a cat who has tested ELISA+, but is IFA negatiave, that would most likely indicate a cat in the earlier stages of infection and one not contagious, yet, to other cats. An IFA+ correlates well with stage four to six of infection, and most likely infectious. Cats that are seriously symptomatic should be considered infectious. The biggest unknown would be a stage-five, latent carrier, who would not be symptomatic but contagious. That is my understanding. I would love to find some recent research that could either corroborate or clarify that interpretation. Sally in San Jose
RE: when is FelV contagious?
There was an article in NYTimes recently about a project to map feline DNA. Rationale is the similarities between FIV HIV viruses. While this may not bode well as far as research being done on cats, it might ultimately lead to more understanding of these viruses Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 11:16 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: when is FelV contagious? Dear Susan: According to Dr. Pitcairn, in his book Natural Health for Dogs and Cats, there are six stages of infection for FeLV. He indicates that cats are not actively shedding the virus and infectious to other cats until they have reached stage five or six. Stage five is the point at which the virus infects the bone marrow and at this point a cat will remain viremic for the rest of its life. Stage six is the point at which a cat becomes significantly and seriously symptomatic and eventually crashes. So if you have a cat who has tested ELISA+, but is IFA negatiave, that would most likely indicate a cat in the earlier stages of infection and one not contagious, yet, to other cats. An IFA+ correlates well with stage four to six of infection, and most likely infectious. Cats that are seriously symptomatic should be considered infectious. The biggest unknown would be a stage-five, latent carrier, who would not be symptomatic but contagious. That is my understanding. I would love to find some recent research that could either corroborate or clarify that interpretation. Sally in San Jose
RE: bone marrow test
Does anyone know how invasive it is to do bone marrow level testing on FeLV?
RE: bone marrow test
Well I am not sure if I am really going to pursuit or not but if I catch Gingers mama, I think I want to try to keep her in stead of releasing her (she is a feral kitty) she looks really good, but if she tested negative on FeLV, I feel that I need to know if she is really negative as I may have to consider the possibility of keeping her with other negative kitties but I know that kitties can be negative on blood test, but positive on bone marrow (it happened to one of my friends kitty) - -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 2:37 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: bone marrow test Who would you want to get that done on? Your positive kitty or negative? Cherie Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know how invasive it is to do bone marrow level testing on FeLV?
RE: bone marrow test
No, I would never do anything to make them go through something so painful and that was the purpose of my question, I did not know if its painful for a kitty or not to go through. If I ever catch her, I would keep her whether she is positive or negative on anything for that matter (thats why I ended up with 50 plus feral cats, I guess) but it will determine where and with whom I should keep her with if you know what I mean. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 2:45 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: bone marrow test But, would you want to put any kitty through that kind of pain, and if she is negative would you get rid of her? Also, if she tests negative on a blood test that should be good enough to go on...I feel. Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I am not sure if I am really going to pursuit or not but if I catch Gingers mama, I think I want to try to keep her in stead of releasing her (she is a feral kitty) she looks really good, but if she tested negative on FeLV, I feel that I need to know if she is really negative as I may have to consider the possibility of keeping her with other negative kitties but I know that kitties can be negative on blood test, but positive on bone marrow (it happened to one of my friends kitty) - -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 2:37 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: bone marrow test Who would you want to get that done on? Your positive kitty or negative? Cherie Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know how invasive it is to do bone marrow level testing on FeLV?
RE: bone marrow test
Well, that is good, I am sorry to have jumped a little, but I can not stand people who want perfection...sick kitties need love too... I would definatetly not get the test, if the blood work comes up negative, and you suspect something just keep testing, it has to get in the blood sometime. CherieHideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, I would never do anything to make them go through something so painful and that was the purpose of my question, I did not know if its painful for a kitty or not to go through. If I ever catch her, I would keep her whether she is positive or negative on anything for that matter (thats why I ended up with 50 plus feral cats, I guess) but it will determine where and with whom I should keep her with if you know what I mean. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cherie A GabbertSent: Monday, February 21, 2005 2:45 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: RE: bone marrow test But, would you want to put any kitty through that kind of pain, and if she is negative would you get rid of her? Also, if she tests negative on a blood test that should be good enough to go on...I feel.Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I am not sure if I am really going to pursuit or not but if I catch Gingers mama, I think I want to try to keep her in stead of releasing her (she is a feral kitty) she looks really good, but if she tested negative on FeLV, I feel that I need to know if she is really negative as I may have to consider the possibility of keeping her with other negative kitties but I know that kitties can be negative on blood test, but positive on bone marrow (it happened to one of my friends kitty) - -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cherie A GabbertSent: Monday, February 21, 2005 2:37 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: RE: bone marrow test Who would you want to get that done on? Your positive kitty or negative? CherieHideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know how invasive it is to do bone marrow level testing on FeLV?
RE: bone marrow test
Cherie, please dont worry I knew where you were coming from and I am glad that there is someone like you some up who fights and stands up for kitties with special needs actually most of the cats I have do have a special need some FIV, and a diabetic cat, some with chronic urinary tract disease cats, and etc.. but they are all so very precious to me! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 2:55 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: bone marrow test Well, that is good, I am sorry to have jumped a little, but I can not stand people who want perfection...sick kitties need love too... I would definatetly not get the test, if the blood work comes up negative, and you suspect something just keep testing, it has to get in the blood sometime. Cherie Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, I would never do anything to make them go through something so painful and that was the purpose of my question, I did not know if its painful for a kitty or not to go through. If I ever catch her, I would keep her whether she is positive or negative on anything for that matter (thats why I ended up with 50 plus feral cats, I guess) but it will determine where and with whom I should keep her with if you know what I mean. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 2:45 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: bone marrow test But, would you want to put any kitty through that kind of pain, and if she is negative would you get rid of her? Also, if she tests negative on a blood test that should be good enough to go on...I feel. Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I am not sure if I am really going to pursuit or not but if I catch Gingers mama, I think I want to try to keep her in stead of releasing her (she is a feral kitty) she looks really good, but if she tested negative on FeLV, I feel that I need to know if she is really negative as I may have to consider the possibility of keeping her with other negative kitties but I know that kitties can be negative on blood test, but positive on bone marrow (it happened to one of my friends kitty) - -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 2:37 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: bone marrow test Who would you want to get that done on? Your positive kitty or negative? Cherie Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know how invasive it is to do bone marrow level testing on FeLV?
Re: bone marrow test
It just sounds very painful, and even putting them out for a short period of time and waking them back up, I am convinced this is what caused my Snowballs attack. Cherie[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had been told by a local vet that bone marrow biopsies are painful. However, the oncologist did one on Simon and from what I could tell there was no pain. They had to knock him out for a short amount of time to do it, which is not great, but it was the kind of mild anesthesia where they wake them up with a shot when it's done, and he did not seem to feel any pain at the spot afterwards. The oncologist did not think it an invasive procedure at all. Michelle In a message dated 2/21/05 4:46:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But, would you want to put any kitty through that kind of pain, and if she is negative would you get rid of her? Also, if she tests negative on a blood test that should be good enough to go on...I feel.
Re: bone marrow test
I agree that I would not put a cat out for any length of time unless necessary (they said it was necessary to determine Simon's chemo treatment), but it is a small needle and they are out and I really do not think it caused any pain with Simon. I am not saying I would do it for an FeLV test; I just seem to be the only person who has taken a cat for the test and so thought I would share that it did not seem like a big deal at all. He never even looked at the spot on his shoulder, much less lick it or limp or act strangely about it. He had a lot of other things going on, though, so it was not the only thing he was dealing with. Michelle In a message dated 2/21/05 5:00:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It just sounds very painful, and even putting them out for a short period of time and waking them back up, I am convinced this is what caused my Snowballs attack. Cherie
Re: bone marrow test
I had one done on me and it was painful..Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have not done it but heard from my vet that it is invasive and painful. From what I understand they have to go into the bone for marrow.-- BelindaHappiness is being owned by cats ...Be-Mi-Kitties ...http://www.bemikitties.comPost Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittenshttp://adopt.bemikitties.comFeLV Candle Light Servicehttp://www.bemikitties.com/clsHostDesign4U.com (affordable hosting web design)http://HostDesign4U.com---BMK Designs (non-profit web sites)http://bmk.bemikitties.com
RE: bone marrow test
But.how do you know that none of your other cats is already carrying it in their bone marrow? If a cat has been in a shelter, been in the wild, been in a home with many cats. chances are it has at sometime been exposed.. tHideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I am not sure if I am really going to pursuit or not but if I catch Gingers mama, I think I want to try to keep her in stead of releasing her (she is a feral kitty) she looks really good, but if she tested negative on FeLV, I feel that I need to know if she is really negative as I may have to consider the possibility of keeping her with other negative kitties but I know that kitties can be negative on blood test, but positive on bone marrow (it happened to one of my friends kitty) - -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cherie A GabbertSent: Monday, February 21, 2005 2:37 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: RE: bone marrow test Who would you want to get that done on? Your positive kitty or negative? CherieHideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know how invasive it is to do bone marrow level testing on FeLV?
Re: bone marrow test
I had it done on one of my cats. This was years ago though. (at least 10) I don't think they had the IFA test then even. I think they put him to sleep. Whatever they did, they did not let me see, so I have no idea how much, if any it hurt him. t[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree that I would not put a cat out for any length of time unless necessary (they said it was necessary to determine Simon's chemo treatment), but it is a small needle and they are out and I really do not think it caused any pain with Simon. I am not saying I would do it for an FeLV test; I just seem to be the only person who has taken a cat for the test and so thought I would share that it did not seem like a big deal at all. He never even looked at the spot on his shoulder, much less lick it or limp or act strangely about it. He had a lot of other things going on, though, so it was not the only thing he was dealing with. Michelle In a message dated 2/21/05 5:00:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It just sounds very painful, and even putting them out for a short period of time and waking them back up, I am convinced this is what caused my Snowballs attack. Cherie
RE: bone marrow test
Most of my cats were never been at a shelter, I trapped them directly from each colony, and I have been taking care of them for the past few years I sort of know which colony has which virus as you do see a sort of pattern, but I guess I will not know for sure of anything -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of catatonya Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 3:20 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: bone marrow test But.how do you know that none of your other cats is already carrying it in their bone marrow? If a cat has been in a shelter, been in the wild, been in a home with many cats. chances are it has at sometime been exposed.. t Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I am not sure if I am really going to pursuit or not but if I catch Gingers mama, I think I want to try to keep her in stead of releasing her (she is a feral kitty) she looks really good, but if she tested negative on FeLV, I feel that I need to know if she is really negative as I may have to consider the possibility of keeping her with other negative kitties but I know that kitties can be negative on blood test, but positive on bone marrow (it happened to one of my friends kitty) - -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 2:37 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: bone marrow test Who would you want to get that done on? Your positive kitty or negative? Cherie Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know how invasive it is to do bone marrow level testing on FeLV?
RE: bone marrow test
No. One can never know for sure. I didn't say that to scare you. It's just how I've come to think of it in my situation. All my cats are rescues. They all tested negative, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone had it sequestered and came up positive in the future. I think if they were going to 'catch' it from a positive, that would have happened when I mixed in my first positive (unknowingly from a test that someone made a mistake with). Since mine hadn't caught it from her after having been mixed for months I continued to let them mix. tonyaHideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most of my cats were never been at a shelter, I trapped them directly from each colony, and I have been taking care of them for the past few years I sort of know which colony has which virus as you do see a sort of pattern, but I guess I will not know for sure of anything -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of catatonyaSent: Monday, February 21, 2005 3:20 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: RE: bone marrow test But.how do you know that none of your other cats is already carrying it in their bone marrow? If a cat has been in a shelter, been in the wild, been in a home with many cats. chances are it has at sometime been exposed.. tHideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I am not sure if I am really going to pursuit or not but if I catch Gingers mama, I think I want to try to keep her in stead of releasing her (she is a feral kitty) she looks really good, but if she tested negative on FeLV, I feel that I need to know if she is really negative as I may have to consider the possibility of keeping her with other negative kitties but I know that kitties can be negative on blood test, but positive on bone marrow (it happened to one of my friends kitty) - -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cherie A GabbertSent: Monday, February 21, 2005 2:37 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: RE: bone marrow test Who would you want to get that done on? Your positive kitty or negative? CherieHideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know how invasive it is to do bone marrow level testing on FeLV?
RE: bone marrow test
Thats absolutely true! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 5:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: bone marrow test But still that is added stress onto the body, healing two wounds instead of one. Be it a superficial or surgery and time a forign object goes in a attack from the white blood cells start, in turn activating the virus Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Even if I was going to do, I was going to do so during the time she is being spayed, so that she doesn't have to go through another anesthesia for it- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 5:03 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: bone marrow test I agree that I would not put a cat under just for FeLV testing. But as for the painfulness, are you all saying it is painful during the test or afterwards? Simon was out during the test, but I feel like I am in twilight zone if you are all saying it is very painful afterwards because he really did not seem to even notice it and both the oncologist and the internist said it was no big deal. I would not have done something to him if the vets had said it would be painful. Maybe a bone marrow biopsy for lymphoma, which is what he had, is somehow different than what you are talking about, but I don't think so. Michelle In a message dated 2/21/05 6:45:39 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Very painful. The tricky thing with this and FeLV is that while they may not show symptoms prior to the test, anesthesia can activate the virus. Kind of a double edged sword...
RE: bone marrow testat leastTesting for latent FeLV infection
Thank you very much, Nina. Its very helpful! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 5:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: bone marrow testat leastTesting for latent FeLV infection Hi Hideyo, Just last month we had a discussion about how best to detect whether a cat is harboring the virus latently. Especially when a cat has tested positive and then later tests negative. There is something called a PCR (Polymerase Chain Reaction), that one of our list members had been told could reveal just that using blood. We went back and forth with an answer from a chemist (Kate) that used to work at my specialist vet's and Dr. Susan, the vet who has been kind enough to answer some of our questions. I was excited about the possibility, but apparently there is some doubt, at least based on the variable testing/interpretation methods whether it would be accurate. Since I already mix, I decided that I would treat all those suspected of having FeLV as if they do. I've pasted Kate's last response regarding testing because she included lots of good links for further research. Nina From Kate: Yes, Dr. Susan is correct that ELISA tests for the antigen of the FeLV virus. If a patient is positive for a virus, say HIV, then the patient's serum contains antibodies to HIV and it will bind to the HIV antigens. For simplicity I left this out. I would like you to see how ELISA works. If you go to www.biology.arizona.edu/immunology/activities/elisa/technique.html, there is an animation of how ELISA works that is simple to understand. Dr. Susan also says that she recommends IFA. If you look on the internet several studies also agree with her, and it appears to be also a good test. However, she does not support PCR. As I said before, lab interpretation of PCR may be difficult and purification of feline DNA from viral DNA, may be difficult, but not impossible and certainly doable. PCR detects the nucleic acids of the virus. More specific primers may be needed for PCR of FeLV, but scientifically, if you have these primers and a patient is positive, a positve PCR means positive infection. I've attached a whole bunch of web sites for you to look at. Some are scientific papers, some are FeLV web sites, and some will help you learn more about the science of testing for FeLV. The best suggestion that I can give is to learn the science behind these tests. Secondly, I have included web sites that do not necessarily agree with each other. I can find articles in Vet journals and in scientific journals that say that PCR is a really great thing for testing FeLV and is much better than ELISA. I can also find journals that say PCR doesn't really give that great of results, and to use IFA if you get a negative test for ELISA. You have to understand that there will always be debates in science and medicine. Noboby knows the whole story on any virus, nor how to cure a virus. Weusescience and experience to find out what works and how to make treatments better. Both Dr. Susan and I come with our own opinions. As a vet, she will see what works in her clinic. Other vets maycome to different conclusions. As ascientist, I have mypersonal faith in testing such as PCR. It's a great techniquethat allows us to take a small amount of genetic material and amplify it; However, for each specific virus we need to know the signature sequences of the virus, to make PCR more specific. Basically, you are only getting opinions from both Dr. Susan and I. Nobody knows how to cure a virus- any virus- from HIV to the common cold to FeLV. Period.Animals doctors, human doctors, and scientists haveone particularly irritating traitin common. This is arrogance. We do know the answers tomany things, but what they don't want the public to know is that, whatwe do know is actually so very little in the scheme of things.For instance,the connation of brain surgeon, conjures up someone who is really smart. Ask a neurolgisthow memory is stored in the brain, and if he or she is honest, you will get the answer of I don't know. In other words, even the most basic question in neurologystill can't be answered. Never forget, there is alot we don't know. The best thing I can let you know is to 1) keep asking questions, but more importantly, start learning the science behind these questions. Do first hand research, grab virology, immunology, and biochemistry textbooks from a university bookstore (or you can buy them used on the internet). Look uphow antibodies and antigens work. Look up PCR and how it works. 2) Know that science and medicine are ever changing, and we learn more everyday (including sometimes, that wecan be wrong). 3) We do not haveall the answers, and in fact we actually only know very little.4) Keep faith that as more is learned about the virus, better treatments will come along, as well as better testing. 5) The more doctors and scientists
