date:20050504

because they're CATS, silly! 

-- 
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral




will someone explain to me why my two half ferals 
will let me pet them at 6 am when they wake me up in the morning but run if I so 
much as peek in the same room they're in any other time? AND those rotten 
furkids. my son's friend came for a visit from college-never saw her in their 
lives and the female cat climbed up on her lap for pets and a  nap. 
argghhh!  they also love my friend who has their two siblings since 
they were 20 wks old(now 6 yrs old). 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 4:12 
  PM
  Subject: Re: I need ideas on best brand 
  of carrier for feral
  
  
  In a message dated 5/4/2005 3:43:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  one of 
my favorite warped thingsto do is sneak up on her and pet her 
because i KNOW it's largelyan act. her name, appropriately enough, is 
sybil.
  
  That made me laugh! And brought back "happy" 
  memories too.
  We had a couple of feral boys that I 
  "befriended". One on one in private they allowed me to actually stroke them, 
  and even pick them up on occassion. Loved those boys... And their names were 
  Damien & Diablo!
  Had to chuckle at Sybil's name. How 
  appropriate.
  I used to do that too, "sneak" up & stroke 
  them. (And they did like it!)
  I'm with youcats are great at 
  acting!!
  Patti

Re: kitty logjam - carrier anecdote




exactly! I will bring up the carrier for an 
upcoming vet visit, leave it open on teh table adn everybody wants to get in 
there. I swear no matter how much lead time I give it-even hours, they know how 
to read my footsteps that mean "going to the vet" and it's like they all 
activate their "cloaking devices" and disappear--except of course for the only 
one who's not going to the vet
barbara

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 4:16 
  PM
  Subject: Re: kitty logjam - carrier 
  anecdote
  
  That is too funny!
  But isn't it something that if you happen to 
  leave a carrier out, they all seem to "fight" to get in 
  it.
  But when it's time for a vet visit and the 
  carrier comes out, they all disappear!
  Cats, I'll never figure them out! I think that's 
  why I love them so much...the element of "mystery".
  Patti

Re: Thank you - Jada gets to compete on Friday

2005-05-04 Thread TatorBunz



YAY JADA!
 
 Terrie MohrCheck site for available Siameses for adoption!http://www.iGive.com/TAZZYShttps://www.paypal.com/TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTShttp://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescuehttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.htmlhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.htmlTAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTSSIAMESE & COLLIE RESCUEOwner/DriverPetfinder.comAdopt a Homeless Pet!http://www.petfinder.com/http://www.orecatay.com/http://www.awca.net/index.htmhttp://www.felineleukemia.org/http://www.petloss.com/http://www.meezer.com/http://thesiamesestore.com/http://tx.siameserescue.org/adopt.htmlhttp://ca.siameserescue.org/http://co.siameserescue.org/http://va.siameserescue.org/
<><>

Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

MC,
Good story.  I guess Friend came to enjoy the closeness that "force" 
feeding entailed.  We all need physical contact, some of us just don't 
know it!  It makes me think about my bottle babies.  Feeding time is 
such a bonding event.  It took me forever to ween them off the bottle, 
not because they weren't eating enough on their own, just because I 
enjoyed it so much!
Nina

TenHouseCats wrote:
friend is a black, dmh. totally feral when he came into the sanctuary
(he's FeLV). before i got there, he got really ill, and had to be
force-fed, given fluids, meds, the whole nine yards. they really
didn't think he would pull thru after awhile, however, still
hissing and spitting, he started to put on some weight and get
healthier
HOWEVER, he'd decided that he wasn't gonna eat on his own. when i
started at the sanctuary, the director had been feeding him a/d with a
syringe for about 6 months. he'd attack the syringe, and usually went
through two or three of them per feeding. he would NOT eat dry, nor
a/d in a bowl, nor anything else. as time went on, all she had to
do was go to the door of the FeLV room and call his name--he'd come
running for his daily "force feeding"
by this time, he wasn't the slightest bit feral, of course. months
later, the director was going on vacation, so feeding friend was one
of my jobs go to the door, call his name, scoop him up,
syringe-feed him his a/d. on the second day, i decided to just SEE
if he'd eat on his own started with putting some a/d on a spoon
and holding it to his mouth he ate it, so i kept moving the filled
spoon closer and closer to the bowl--whereupon, he immediately slurped
up the rest of the can all on his own.
for a week, he ate from the bowl just like a normal cat THEN mommy
came back from vacation--everyone was so excited to tell her that
friend could eat on his own.. yep, you guessed it--as soon as he
saw her, he totally forgot how to eat! she ended up syringe feeding
him for another 6 or 7 months before he finally decided he could eat
with the other cats. that was his mommy/cat time, and he clearly
valued it! (did i mention he became rather HUGE from this
experience??)

Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

friend is a black, dmh. totally feral when he came into the sanctuary
(he's FeLV). before i got there, he got really ill, and had to be
force-fed, given fluids, meds, the whole nine yards. they really
didn't think he would pull thru after awhile, however, still
hissing and spitting, he started to put on some weight and get
healthier

HOWEVER, he'd decided that he wasn't gonna eat on his own. when i
started at the sanctuary, the director had been feeding him a/d with a
syringe for about 6 months. he'd attack the syringe, and usually went
through two or three of them per feeding. he would NOT eat dry, nor
a/d in a bowl, nor anything else. as time went on, all she had to
do was go to the door of the FeLV room and call his name--he'd come
running for his daily "force feeding"

by this time, he wasn't the slightest bit feral, of course. months
later, the director was going on vacation, so feeding friend was one
of my jobs go to the door, call his name, scoop him up,
syringe-feed him his a/d. on the second day, i decided to just SEE
if he'd eat on his own started with putting some a/d on a spoon
and holding it to his mouth he ate it, so i kept moving the filled
spoon closer and closer to the bowl--whereupon, he immediately slurped
up the rest of the can all on his own.

for a week, he ate from the bowl just like a normal cat THEN mommy
came back from vacation--everyone was so excited to tell her that
friend could eat on his own.. yep, you guessed it--as soon as he
saw her, he totally forgot how to eat! she ended up syringe feeding
him for another 6 or 7 months before he finally decided he could eat
with the other cats. that was his mommy/cat time, and he clearly
valued it! (did i mention he became rather HUGE from this
experience??)


-- 
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: Hard to vet

2005-05-04 Thread Terri Brown





Some of you "old timers" will remember Jamie's absolutely hilarious story 
about what she went through when she tried to fill an amitryptilline.
 
very funny!
 
=^..^= Terri, Salome', Siggie the Tomato Vampire, Guinevere, Sammi, and 5 
furangels: RuthieGirl, Samantha, Arielle, Gareth and Alec =^..^=
 
Furkid Photos! http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7sgqa/My 
FeLV Site: http://pages.ivillage.com/ruthiegirl1/MyFeLVinformationSite/My 
Personal Page: http://www.geocities.com/ruthiegirl1/terrispage.html?1083970447350

  - Original Message - 
  From: Nina 
  
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 1:50 
  PM
  Subject: Hard to vet
  Patti,Thanks for letting us know about Midnight's reaction 
  to the Ace.  I would probably go with the amitryptilline, because I've 
  heard of good results with it  You've all heard me talk about our 
  GSD, Zevon.  He is the sweetest, most loving and gentle, (albeit, 
  clumsy), creature at home, but when we get the vet, look out.  It's like 
  Jekel and Hide!  He had a VERY bad experience at the vet once, and since 
  then he acts like he wants to tear anyone in a white coat's head off. (Pretty 
  embarrassing for a dog trainer!).  We usually ask the vet to come into 
  the parking lot for the exam, that really helps.  Another thing we have 
  found that helps, is for us not to be present while they are administering to 
  him.  He's much worse with us there.  The folks at the vet think 
  it's because he's being protective of us, I think it's because he feels like 
  he's got allies and it makes him more confident, (he figures his homies have 
  his back!).  At any rate, he turns into his sweet, docile self when we're 
  not with him.  I hate to watch him walking away from us, but it does 
  help.Nina[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  

While Ace Promazine works as a sedative, I 
would be very careful with it's use.
One of my dogs has several "issues", and 
getting her to the vet is always an adventure. (She is aggressive, among 
other things)
All her bloodwork came back fine, but she 
needs regular visits because of ear problems (related to allergies, she's my 
vegan dog).
My vet dispensed a low dose of ace to be given 
prior to her vet appts.
Approximately 15 minutes after giving her the 
ace she started "seizing", it was terrible! I called the vet and rushed her 
right in. My vet is 45 minutes drive. The seizures apparently were a major 
factor that led her to have a stroke.
Her condition was touch and go for several 
days. A specialist was called in and the only explanation that both Dr.s 
could come up with was a reaction to the ace 
promazine.
Since that happened, we are reluctant to use 
any type of drug that affects the nervous system. Also her age is a 
factor..
We were very lucky she made a full recovery. 
(I LOVE MY VET!)
So now, I have to muzzle her at home, before 
we make the long drive. I've used the Rescue Remedy and other flower 
extracts, but truthfully with her, I don't see any 
results.
I just feel so bad for her because it's always 
a traumatic event. But, despite her age, she still is a pistol. It takes 3 
of us to hold her for exam!
I think the staff dreads her visits as much as 
Middy does!
I haven't heard of it being avaialable as a 
compounded cream though. I know elavil (amitryptilline) is, and we have used 
that on our ferals.
I just thought I would share Midnight's 
reaction to the Ace...
Patti

Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

Ferals are so near and dear to my heart.  I admire them so much.  I'd 
love to hear your feral story!
Nina

TenHouseCats wrote:
i'll have to find one of my favorite photos--a close-up of two cats
that is titled, "what part of feral don't you get?"
i have a GREAT feral-transformation story if people want to hear it

Re: Mikey

2005-05-04 Thread Terri Brown





Did I miss this?  OMG -- I'm so sorry.  Big hugs to you.
 
Goodnight, sweet Mikey...
 
=^..^= Terri, Salome', Siggie the Tomato Vampire, Guinevere, Sammi, and 5 
furangels: RuthieGirl, Samantha, Arielle, Gareth and Alec =^..^=
 
Furkid Photos! http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7sgqa/My 
FeLV Site: http://pages.ivillage.com/ruthiegirl1/MyFeLVinformationSite/My 
Personal Page: http://www.geocities.com/ruthiegirl1/terrispage.html?1083970447350

  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 12:26 
  PM
  Subject: Re: Mikey
  
  Leah,
      I too am so 
  sorry to hear about your furangel "Mikey". Mikey is now at the bridge running 
  and trying to catch the butterflies with the others there. The time will come 
  when you two will be together again someday. Bless you!
  You are in my thoughts and 
  prayers. 
   
   Terrie MohrCheck site 
  for available Siameses for adoption!http://www.iGive.com/TAZZYShttps://www.paypal.com/TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTShttp://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescuehttp://hometown.aolcom/tatorbunz/index.htmlhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.htmlTAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTSSIAMESE & COLLIE 
  RESCUEOwner/DriverPetfinder.comAdopt a Homeless Pet!http://www.petfinder.com/http://www.orecatay.com/http://www.awca.net/index.htmhttp://www.felineleukemia.org/http://www.petloss.com/http://www.meezer.com/http://thesiamesestore.com/http://tx.siameserescue.org/adopt.htmlhttp://ca.siameserescue.org/http://co.siameserescue.org/http://va.siameserescue.org/
<><>

RE: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

I'd sure like to hear it! Kerry

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 3:49 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

i'll have to find one of my favorite photos--a close-up of two cats
that is titled, "what part of feral don't you get?"

i have a GREAT feral-transformation story if people want to hear it
-- 
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This 
message contains confidential information and is intended only for the 
individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not 
disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

i'll have to find one of my favorite photos--a close-up of two cats
that is titled, "what part of feral don't you get?"

i have a GREAT feral-transformation story if people want to hear it
-- 
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: Thank you - Jada gets to compete on Friday

2005-05-04 Thread Brenda K. Smith

Joan.
   Who decides who is Best In Show?  I voted everyday since you posted 
this and several friends and relatives voted for her also. :) 

--
Brenda.
http://www.whiskersandwicks.com
http://www.cheqnet.net/~bksmith 
 	
"The only risk you ever run in befriending a cat is enriching yourself." - Colette

Don't Take Your Organs To Heaven.  Heaven Knows We Need Them Here.

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.11.3 - Release Date: 5/3/2005

Re: kitty logjam - carrier anecdote




That is too funny!
But isn't it something that if you happen to leave 
a carrier out, they all seem to "fight" to get in it.
But when it's time for a vet visit and the carrier 
comes out, they all disappear!
Cats, I'll never figure them out! I think that's 
why I love them so much...the element of "mystery".
Patti

Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral





In a message dated 5/4/2005 3:43:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
one of 
  my favorite warped thingsto do is sneak up on her and pet her because 
  i KNOW it's largelyan act. her name, appropriately enough, is 
sybil.

That made me laugh! And brought back "happy" 
memories too.
We had a couple of feral boys that I "befriended". 
One on one in private they allowed me to actually stroke them, and even pick 
them up on occassion. Loved those boys... And their names were Damien & 
Diablo!
Had to chuckle at Sybil's name. How 
appropriate.
I used to do that too, "sneak" up & stroke 
them. (And they did like it!)
I'm with youcats are great at 
acting!!
Patti

Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

hee hee--we have this gorgeous blue-cream FeLV at the sanctuary. feral
as all get out. had to have major surgery for a hernia, so HAD to let
us handle her. she got to where she didn't try to attack, and
would let us pet her she's back in the FeLV room now, and she
still pretends to be totally feral--one of my favorite warped things
to do is sneak up on her and pet her because i KNOW it's largely
an act. her name, appropriately enough, is sybil
-- 
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: Two Door Deluxe Pet Porters for Cats/Kerry

2005-05-04 Thread Barb Moermond

while my Smoky isn't feral, if you're lounging on the couch and he's up in the crow's nest on the living room tree and you ignore him, he'll come to snuggle with you, but if you call him or watch him, he won'tNina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
MC,I've learned so much by quietly and closely observing how kitties interact with each other.  Spending time in their space pretending that you're not all that interested in them really works to pique their interest.  And of course food is a wonderful motivator!  Your line about "making a complete fool" of yourself made me laugh.  I've been known to slink to the ground and slowly roll, belly to the sky, arms outstretched, enticing anyone who might be interested to come closer and check out the extremely large ungraceful cat!NinaTenHouseCats wrote:
one of the things i learned from FirstCat, who thought her job was to
mother the world, was to pet ferals/unfriendlies WHILE they were
eating cats who wouldn't let her near them would get so absorbed
in eating that she'd groom them the whole time!

i also have found sitting in the same space with them, with a good
book, works--they WILL come up to explore you, and if you seem to
ignore them, that piques their curiousity once one lets you touch
them, if there are others, they watch the trusting one and that seems
to make them more willing to give you a chance, too. i sing to them,
sometimes read aloud, and often make a complete fool out of myself
rolling balls back and forth between my hands, playing with feather
toys on my own, etc leaving EVERYTHING up to them... i also very
specifically TELL them that they are safe, that no one will ever hurt
them again, that i am very sorry that they are scared and have had bad
experiences with humans in their past... it seems to work, tho perhaps
it's just that they feel sorry for this obviously deranged human

http://www.athomevet.org/ is the website for the american association
of housecall veterinarians. i don't know how comprehensive it is, but
might be worthwhile checking out. i'm in an area with SIX housecall
vets so i'm incredibly spoiled. in addition, i know of a couple of
fixed-location vets in town who regularly do housecalls for clients
with rescue populations--they just don't admit it publicly! the
housecall vets here are no more expensive than regular vets, and in
many cases much less as they don't have the same overhead. likewise,
the fixed-location vets who do housecalls for large groups do not tend
to charge a premium for that--when it's not an emergency situation. it
can't hurt to ask your vet about it if they know your situation.
for ferals and scaredy-cats, you just need to herd them into a smaller
space a few hours in advance!



On 5/4/05, MacKenzie, Kerry N. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
 
Thanks Nina--it's funny, they'll come up really close to me, touch me, when
I'm sitting still as a statue, but the second I even slightly move--whoosh,
they're gone. Last night, I sat with the dry food that they love right next
to me. They did eat, but very warily, heads in the bowl. As son as I made
the tiniest move, they flet. The boldest one, Flavia, came back, but this
time she used her paw to get the food out ---so she could carry it off and
eat it in peace. Very smart, but not progress! 
Kerry 
 
  
  
  
  
 -Original Message-   
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
Nina
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 5:22 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Two Door Deluxe Pet Porters for Cats/Kerry

Kerry,
That's what I do.  Sit next to them while they eat in there until they get
comfortable with your presence.  Then start by just touching the door
without actually moving it.  If they scoot out, tell them they're silly for
being such scaredy cats!  Keep this up till they let you touch the door,
then until they let you move the door, then till they let you shut the door.
 I know, I know, this all takes time and patience.  When you first start
shutting the door, they'll probably be pretty upset about it.  Almost
immediately open the door and let them run if they want.  They'll come back
to eat and won't be as spooked the next time you shut the door.  Remember,
all beings are individuals, if this doesn't seem like it's going to work,
we'll have to come up with something else!  Keep me informed about your
progress.
Nina

MacKenzie, Kerry N. wrote:
 
 
Thanks for that Patti. I have a Petsmart just 2 blocks from me. Have you
used them for ferals? If so, is there any trick you use to shut the door
REALLY quickly once they're in? That's been my big problem in the
past---soon as my hand goes out to shut the door, whoosh, they're outa
there.<>I guess I'm going to have to try and get them used to me sitting
right next to the carriers while they eat. kerry  
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this email i

Re: Two Door Deluxe Pet Porters for Cats/Kerry

hee hee--i haven't QUITE gotten to the roll-on-the-floor point yet,
tho i used to love to go into the felv room at the sanctuary and
stretch out--cats make such NICE blankets!

-- 
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

RE: kitty logjam - carrier anecdote

Hilarious!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BONNIE J
KALMBACH
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 1:38 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: kitty logjam - carrier anecdote

I got the carrier out to take my sweet orange boy, Henry Lee to the vet 
(I thought the name sounded "southern"; he was a starving kitten trying 
to eat a piece of dirty french fry by a dumpster in Mississippi). He 
was my first positive kitty. 

When all of my kitties saw the carrier, they all ran to hide behind one 
armchair. There was a "logjam" of kitties with Henry bringing up the 
rear. Although he was trying, he couldn't get in over or around the 
pile-up of kitties. I couldn't help laughing and said "Aha!" as I 
easily scooped him up and popped him in the carrier.

Bonnie in WI

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This 
message contains confidential information and is intended only for the 
individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not 
disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

Re: Two Door Deluxe Pet Porters for Cats/Kerry





MC,
I've learned so much by quietly and closely observing how kitties
interact with each other.  Spending time in their space pretending that
you're not all that interested in them really works to pique their
interest.  And of course food is a wonderful motivator!  Your line
about "making a complete fool" of yourself made me laugh.  I've been
known to slink to the ground and slowly roll, belly to the sky, arms
outstretched, enticing anyone who might be interested to come closer
and check out the extremely large ungraceful cat!
Nina

TenHouseCats wrote:

  one of the things i learned from FirstCat, who thought her job was to
mother the world, was to pet ferals/unfriendlies WHILE they were
eating cats who wouldn't let her near them would get so absorbed
in eating that she'd groom them the whole time!

i also have found sitting in the same space with them, with a good
book, works--they WILL come up to explore you, and if you seem to
ignore them, that piques their curiousity once one lets you touch
them, if there are others, they watch the trusting one and that seems
to make them more willing to give you a chance, too. i sing to them,
sometimes read aloud, and often make a complete fool out of myself
rolling balls back and forth between my hands, playing with feather
toys on my own, etc leaving EVERYTHING up to them... i also very
specifically TELL them that they are safe, that no one will ever hurt
them again, that i am very sorry that they are scared and have had bad
experiences with humans in their past... it seems to work, tho perhaps
it's just that they feel sorry for this obviously deranged human

http://www.athomevet.org/ is the website for the american association
of housecall veterinarians. i don't know how comprehensive it is, but
might be worthwhile checking out. i'm in an area with SIX housecall
vets so i'm incredibly spoiled. in addition, i know of a couple of
fixed-location vets in town who regularly do housecalls for clients
with rescue populations--they just don't admit it publicly! the
housecall vets here are no more expensive than regular vets, and in
many cases much less as they don't have the same overhead. likewise,
the fixed-location vets who do housecalls for large groups do not tend
to charge a premium for that--when it's not an emergency situation. it
can't hurt to ask your vet about it if they know your situation.
for ferals and scaredy-cats, you just need to herd them into a smaller
space a few hours in advance!



On 5/4/05, MacKenzie, Kerry N. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
  
 
Thanks Nina--it's funny, they'll come up really close to me, touch me, when
I'm sitting still as a statue, but the second I even slightly move--whoosh,
they're gone. Last night, I sat with the dry food that they love right next
to me. They did eat, but very warily, heads in the bowl. As son as I made
the tiniest move, they flet. The boldest one, Flavia, came back, but this
time she used her paw to get the food out ---so she could carry it off and
eat it in peace. Very smart, but not progress! 
Kerry 
 
  
  
  
  
 -Original Message-   
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
Nina
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 5:22 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Two Door Deluxe Pet Porters for Cats/Kerry

Kerry,
That's what I do.  Sit next to them while they eat in there until they get
comfortable with your presence.  Then start by just touching the door
without actually moving it.  If they scoot out, tell them they're silly for
being such scaredy cats!  Keep this up till they let you touch the door,
then until they let you move the door, then till they let you shut the door.
 I know, I know, this all takes time and patience.  When you first start
shutting the door, they'll probably be pretty upset about it.  Almost
immediately open the door and let them run if they want.  They'll come back
to eat and won't be as spooked the next time you shut the door.  Remember,
all beings are individuals, if this doesn't seem like it's going to work,
we'll have to come up with something else!  Keep me informed about your
progress.
Nina

MacKenzie, Kerry N. wrote:
 
 
Thanks for that Patti. I have a Petsmart just 2 blocks from me. Have you
used them for ferals? If so, is there any trick you use to shut the door
REALLY quickly once they're in? That's been my big problem in the
past---soon as my hand goes out to shut the door, whoosh, they're outa
there.<>I guess I'm going to have to try and get them used to me sitting
right next to the carriers while they eat. kerry  
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kitty logjam - carrier anecdote

2005-05-04 Thread BONNIE J KALMBACH


I got the carrier out to take my sweet orange boy, Henry Lee to the vet 
(I thought the name sounded "southern"; he was a starving kitten trying 
to eat a piece of dirty french fry by a dumpster in Mississippi). He 
was my first positive kitty. 

When all of my kitties saw the carrier, they all ran to hide behind one 
armchair. There was a "logjam" of kitties with Henry bringing up the 
rear. Although he was trying, he couldn't get in over or around the 
pile-up of kitties. I couldn't help laughing and said "Aha!" as I 
easily scooped him up and popped him in the carrier.

Bonnie in WI

RE: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

Yes, agreed. (But she's also the one that now "bats" me like Levi used
to do, when I try and hold food out to her!)
I sometimes wonder if she's slightly less afraid than the others because
she was very sick for a few days as a kitten, and had no choice but to
let me handle her, to assist feed her. And the experience has left a
little pawprint on her brain. Kerry

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 1:18 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

Ha!  Flavia is your target, she's the one that's going to give in first.
Nina

MacKenzie, Kerry N. wrote:

>Touch their ears? That just in itself would be a champagne-popping
>event. Nah, I just have to move my little finger half an inch and
>they're gone. Outa there. The only means of touching them is
indirectly,
>with a long-handled toy (which Flavia particularly enjoys, tho she
tries
>hard not to show it. She pretends she's on a mission that requires her
>to strut back and forth repeatedly past me from one end of the room to
>the other, and in pursuing her mission has to "put up" with me stroking
>her with the toy. :>))
>Kerry
>

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RE: Hard to vet

Title: Message



Very 
good point, Nina.
 
Two of my negs actually take turns to snooze in their 
carrier (which has a permanent place in my living-room). Of course, it never 
happens when they have to go to the vet. My remaining positives never go into the carrier in 
their room, even though it sits there looking quite snug and inviting. Caramel 
was the only one who really ever went into it for R&R. 
Kerry
 
 

-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On Behalf Of NinaSent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 1:11 
PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Hard to 
vetJust a thought...  Big Boy, along with everyone 
else who freaks at the vet's office, has a good reason for doing so.  I've 
thought about doing what I'm about to talk about before, but who has the 
time?  When I took Grace in to the vet last time she was much calmer.  
I know that had a lot to do with my attitude, but I also think it had something 
to do with the fact that the last time we were there, nothing bad happened to 
her, if you recall she was so stressed she never got examined.  I did take 
her out of the carrier while I waited for the vet and she fell asleep on my lap 
hiding in a towel.  Everybody is scared of the carrier because 
nothing good ever comes from it!  I'm thinking a little reconditioning 
might help.  Carrier trips that end with something benign, or better yet, 
enjoyable.  Maybe even trips to the vet during quiet hours until he see 
that it's not so terrible.  I don't know, if you had the time, it might 
help.NinaChris wrote:

  
  

  
  I agree that every 
  medication has potential serious side effects and I guess we all weigh the 
  risks of giving it to the little guys.   With my Big Boy, I know 
  that by now I could get him into the carrier & get to vet, but problem 
  comes in when we get there….  He absolutely goes wild & they have to 
  hold him down with one of those long nets at the end of a pole.  Its 
  almost impossible for them to draw blood and do a general exam.  Believe 
  me, we have made vet visits (3 in all) only when absolutely necessary!  
  He has come a LONG way since those initial visits and I am hoping that by the 
  time of next visit later this year, he will have gone even further & we 
  can go without meds….. I had a potential adoptive home for him who backed out 
  at the last minute because of this issue.   My other cats put up a 
  fuss at getting into the carrier (you know, extend those arms to 3’ feet 
  wide!), but they’re all marshmellows in the vets office.  
     
   
  
  Chris
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

RE: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

Wow. That's bad. A vet who hates cats. 
Agree with all you say about checking the vet out before an
emergency--it's true that rational thinking takes a dive. The problem
with emergencies, whether you rush to your own clinic during normal
hours, or ER, is that you have to take whoever is available. Last time I
had an emergency--Levy--I actually drove right by my usual clinic and
headed for ER because I was afraid I would get the owner of the clinic,
whom I don't trust.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 1:03 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral


we need to remember that a lot of vets don't really like cats. sad,
but true. cats are seen as rather disposable we have a
24-hour-emergency clinic here owned by a vet who hates cats
and two of the three emergency vets here regularly declare the cat
will die before morning unless surgery costing $750 minimum--payable
in full--is done. (no one i know has ever accepted that verdict,
none of the cats expired before getting to their regular vets, and few
actually needed the surgery the er vet said they did)

on another thread, i put the link to the american association of
housecall vets--it's really worth looking into.

vets ARE like human doctors--some are good, some are better, some are
HORRID. the trick is to find out BEFORE AN EMERGENCY what kind you
have. we need to interview our vets about their experience, their
attitudes (especially about FIV and FeLV), their emergency payment
policies, their willingness to consult with specialists and/or do
research, what anesthetics they use, etc. it's impossible to think
rationally when it's an emergency--and we need to remember that WE are
hiring THEM. some vets can't stand being questioned, others welcome
it

perhaps we should work together, as caretakers of special cats, to
come up with a "questionnaire" of things we've all learned to look
for?

and the COLDEST vet i've ever worked with was at a cat-only practice! 


-- 
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

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Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

Ha!  Flavia is your target, she's the one that's going to give in first.
Nina
MacKenzie, Kerry N. wrote:
Touch their ears? That just in itself would be a champagne-popping
event. Nah, I just have to move my little finger half an inch and
they're gone. Outa there. The only means of touching them is indirectly,
with a long-handled toy (which Flavia particularly enjoys, tho she tries
hard not to show it. She pretends she's on a mission that requires her
to strut back and forth repeatedly past me from one end of the room to
the other, and in pursuing her mission has to "put up" with me stroking
her with the toy. :>))
Kerry

Re: Two Door Deluxe Pet Porters for Cats/Kerry

yeah, some of my housecall vets aren't on it, either there is
probably another association out there, i just got side-tracked and
didn't follow up on all the google options!

yeah, it is really wonderful to have the resources we have here--has
to do with a vet school in town, where, i think, the students get
established during their studies then don't want to leave town... more
vets than i've ever seen anywhere!
-- 
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: Two Door Deluxe Pet Porters for Cats/Kerry





Kerry,
Actually, it is progress!  They ate in front of you.  I'd take it up a
notch.  When they're hungry, instead of putting it down for them right
away, kneel down low with the bowl close to you, toss them a piece at a
time and get them used to understanding that the food is coming
directly from you.  It will also help them get used to the fact that
when you move, it's not always a bad thing!
Nina

MacKenzie, Kerry N. wrote:

  Message
  
  
  Thanks Nina--it's funny, they'll come up really
close to me, touch me, when I'm sitting still as a statue, but the
second I even slightly move--whoosh, they're gone. Last night, I sat
with the dry food that they love right next to me. They did eat, but
very warily, heads in the bowl. As son as I made the tiniest move, they
flet. The boldest one, Flavia, came back, but this time she used her
paw to get the food out ---so she could carry it off and eat it in
peace. Very smart, but not progress!
  <>Kerry

Hard to vet





Just a thought...  Big Boy, along with everyone else who freaks at the
vet's office, has a good reason for doing so.  I've thought about doing
what I'm about to talk about before, but who has the time?  When I took
Grace in to the vet last time she was much calmer.  I know that had a
lot to do with my attitude, but I also think it had something to do
with the fact that the last time we were there, nothing bad happened to
her, if you recall she was so stressed she never got examined.  I did
take her out of the carrier while I waited for the vet and she fell
asleep on my lap hiding in a towel.  

Everybody is scared of the carrier because nothing good ever comes from
it!  I'm thinking a little reconditioning might help.  Carrier trips
that end with something benign, or better yet, enjoyable.  Maybe even
trips to the vet during quiet hours until he see that it's not so
terrible.  I don't know, if you had the time, it might help.
Nina

Chris wrote:

  
  
  
  
  I agree that
every
medication has potential serious side effects and I guess we all weigh
the risks
of giving it to the little guys.   With my Big Boy, I know that by
now I could get him into the carrier & get to vet, but problem
comes in
when we get there….  He absolutely goes wild & they have to hold
him down with one of those long nets at the end of a pole.  Its almost
impossible for them to draw blood and do a general exam.  Believe me,
we
have made vet visits (3 in all) only when absolutely necessary!  He has
come a LONG way since those initial visits and I am hoping that by the
time of
next visit later this year, he will have gone even further & we can
go
without meds….. I had a potential adoptive home for him who backed out
at
the last minute because of this issue.   My other cats put up a fuss
at getting into the carrier (you know, extend those arms to 3’ feet
wide!), but they’re all marshmellows in the vets office.     
   
  
  Chris
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Two Door Deluxe Pet Porters for Cats/Kerry

Mary Christine---FirstCat sounds a real sweetie!
Thanks for the housecall site--I did check it out. I think it may still
be new? The vet I used isn't on it, or the other one I know of (but
haven't used). I'll check into it periodically. I'm very envious of your
pool of 6 housecall vets! Kerry

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 12:43 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Two Door Deluxe Pet Porters for Cats/Kerry

one of the things i learned from FirstCat, who thought her job was to
mother the world, was to pet ferals/unfriendlies WHILE they were
eating cats who wouldn't let her near them would get so absorbed
in eating that she'd groom them the whole time!

i also have found sitting in the same space with them, with a good
book, works--they WILL come up to explore you, and if you seem to
ignore them, that piques their curiousity once one lets you touch
them, if there are others, they watch the trusting one and that seems
to make them more willing to give you a chance, too. i sing to them,
sometimes read aloud, and often make a complete fool out of myself
rolling balls back and forth between my hands, playing with feather
toys on my own, etc leaving EVERYTHING up to them... i also very
specifically TELL them that they are safe, that no one will ever hurt
them again, that i am very sorry that they are scared and have had bad
experiences with humans in their past... it seems to work, tho perhaps
it's just that they feel sorry for this obviously deranged human

http://www.athomevet.org/ is the website for the american association
of housecall veterinarians. i don't know how comprehensive it is, but
might be worthwhile checking out. i'm in an area with SIX housecall
vets so i'm incredibly spoiled. in addition, i know of a couple of
fixed-location vets in town who regularly do housecalls for clients
with rescue populations--they just don't admit it publicly! the
housecall vets here are no more expensive than regular vets, and in
many cases much less as they don't have the same overhead. likewise,
the fixed-location vets who do housecalls for large groups do not tend
to charge a premium for that--when it's not an emergency situation. it
can't hurt to ask your vet about it if they know your situation.
for ferals and scaredy-cats, you just need to herd them into a smaller
space a few hours in advance!

On 5/4/05, MacKenzie, Kerry N. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
> Thanks Nina--it's funny, they'll come up really close to me, touch me,
when
> I'm sitting still as a statue, but the second I even slightly
move--whoosh,
> they're gone. Last night, I sat with the dry food that they love right
next
> to me. They did eat, but very warily, heads in the bowl. As son as I
made
> the tiniest move, they flet. The boldest one, Flavia, came back, but
this
> time she used her paw to get the food out ---so she could carry it off
and
> eat it in peace. Very smart, but not progress! 
> Kerry 
>  
>   
>   
>   
>   
>  -Original Message-   
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Nina
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 5:22 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: Two Door Deluxe Pet Porters for Cats/Kerry
> 
> Kerry,
> That's what I do.  Sit next to them while they eat in there until they
get
> comfortable with your presence.  Then start by just touching the door
> without actually moving it.  If they scoot out, tell them they're
silly for
> being such scaredy cats!  Keep this up till they let you touch the
door,
> then until they let you move the door, then till they let you shut the
door.
>  I know, I know, this all takes time and patience.  When you first
start
> shutting the door, they'll probably be pretty upset about it.  Almost
> immediately open the door and let them run if they want.  They'll come
back
> to eat and won't be as spooked the next time you shut the door.
Remember,
> all beings are individuals, if this doesn't seem like it's going to
work,
> we'll have to come up with something else!  Keep me informed about
your
> progress.
> Nina
> 
> MacKenzie, Kerry N. wrote:
>  
>  
> Thanks for that Patti. I have a Petsmart just 2 blocks from me. Have
you
> used them for ferals? If so, is there any trick you use to shut the
door
> REALLY quickly once they're in? That's been my big problem in the
> past---soon as my hand goes out to shut the door, whoosh, they're outa
> there.<>I guess I'm going to have to try and get them used to me
sitting
> right next to the carriers while they eat. kerry  
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
addressed.
> If you have received this email in error please notify the system
manager.
> This message contains confidential information and is intended only
for the
> individual named. If you are not the named addressee y

Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

we need to remember that a lot of vets don't really like cats. sad,
but true. cats are seen as rather disposable we have a
24-hour-emergency clinic here owned by a vet who hates cats
and two of the three emergency vets here regularly declare the cat
will die before morning unless surgery costing $750 minimum--payable
in full--is done. (no one i know has ever accepted that verdict,
none of the cats expired before getting to their regular vets, and few
actually needed the surgery the er vet said they did)

on another thread, i put the link to the american association of
housecall vets--it's really worth looking into.

vets ARE like human doctors--some are good, some are better, some are
HORRID. the trick is to find out BEFORE AN EMERGENCY what kind you
have. we need to interview our vets about their experience, their
attitudes (especially about FIV and FeLV), their emergency payment
policies, their willingness to consult with specialists and/or do
research, what anesthetics they use, etc. it's impossible to think
rationally when it's an emergency--and we need to remember that WE are
hiring THEM. some vets can't stand being questioned, others welcome
it

perhaps we should work together, as caretakers of special cats, to
come up with a "questionnaire" of things we've all learned to look
for?

and the COLDEST vet i've ever worked with was at a cat-only practice! 


-- 
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: Mikey

Leah,
I'm so sorry to hear you lost your Mikey.  I hope you can take some 
comfort in knowing you did everything you could for him and that he had 
a warm, loving, secure home for the time he was with you.  It sounds 
like the fluids you got him helped him be more comfortable in his last 
hours.  I'm so sorry.  I know too well that there's nothing anyone can 
say at a time like this to ease your burden of grief.  Give Bubba a kiss 
from me, and know we're all thinking about you. 
Nina

Wolf, Leah R. wrote:
Dear Everybody,
This is to let you know that Mikey has joined his brothers in cat heaven.  He 
did not respond to Monday's treatments, so the vet gave him a substantial 
amount of fluid yesterday evening, which revived him and I became hopeful that 
the dehydration was his only problem.  However, the revival did not last and he 
died in the early hours of this morning.  The vet has determined that, based on 
the array of symptoms, Mikey had an underlying liver problem and most likely a 
variety of organic issues resulting from that.  So the real problem was not the 
dehydration and lack of interest in eating.  These were results of the liver 
problem.
Belinda, please add Mikey to next week's Candlelight Service.
Many thanks to all who contributed healing messages and specific suggestions 
for caring for an FELV+ cat.
We still have Bubba, our 4 year old boy, who is going strong, to console us.
Leah

RE: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

Title: Message

What a sad situation, Patti.
People and vets and clinic owners--greedy businessmen first and foremost--who
just don't care about the animals in their supposed care. The female vet must
have had a very difficult time too, working for such a horrible man. And to be
reprimanded for refusing to euthanize a healthy animal...it's
heartbreaking.
I'm thinking that many
vets--especially those who own clinics--probably became vets not just because of
the money, but also because they're never going to have to pay huge sums out if
an animal in their care dies through negligence, and they don't have to worry
about their patients ever complaining.
I'm not surprised you feel
burnt out after 20 years of seeing suffering animals. One petsitter I know who
used to be a technician said she was burnt out after 3 years. I don't
think I would be able to handle it for 1 year. My admiration for you and
everyone else -- I know there are many on the list -- who see so much animal
suffering because of their compassionate nature knows no bounds.

It's really opened my eyes
hearing about the experiences of people like yourself. Thanks for sharing
and for doing so much for animals. Kerry
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005
12:17 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: I need
ideas on best brand of carrier for feral
Kerry,
This was one of the two 24 hour emergency clinics in
the outskirts of Baltimore. A very high volume place since they draw in a
lot of patients from Pa. The 24 hour clinic in Pa. is in Northern part of
county, so going to Md. is quicker.
I truthfully don't know the answer about how/why they
can do this. I just know in the emergency clinic, the "rules" were written in
black and white.
The founder of the clinic is a very stern man, and I
never saw any of the other vets go up against his policies.(They actually had a
dog in their freezer for 6 months because owner did not have money for
cremation! Sent it to collections, and meanwhile this poor animal just lays in
the bottom of the freezer!)
I have to say, at the other vets I worked for there
was one vet who was very compassionate, and she did refuse to euthanize healthy
animals. It was with her help I was able to smuggle the 2 Maine Coone boys
out...
But since the owner vet wanted to due the necropsy on
the little Felv+ girl, we knew we couldn't smuggle her
out.
I know this vet struggled with things that went on
there, and had been "called" up on situations where if she was "on call" vet and
there was a animal presented for euthanasia for no other reason than
convenience, she would defer the client to one of the other
vets.
And she was the only vet there that would pursue
cruelty charges when animals were presented in severe cases of neglect. She sat
on the floor one night, holding and comforting an old dog who was loaded with
maggots coming out of every orifice in his body... All because he had wounds
that were left unattended & the owner brought him in when she noticed the
"smell". And the owners had "dropped" him off & said they'd check back in
morning. This poor dog was obviously suffering and in a lot of pain. We bathed
him, fed him and tried to contact the owners, to no avail. So she held him for
the longest time and then eased his suffering. Which is a BIG NO! w/out owners
consent. But she was so angry at what this dog had endured she did not want him
to suffer anymore. And she did leave a scathing message on their answering
machine. And did report them for abuse/neglect.
I hope for her sake she is practicing at a different
facility. She was so kind. And she always appreciated when I would sit and hold
the cats and dogs that were just lingering. I was also the only one who would
handle the FIV or Felv cats. And the giant African tortoise, he weighed
almost as much as me.
I have seen alot. Probably too much. And it has taken
its' toll, I am burnt out.
I'm not as active as I had been over the last 20 years
or so, but I still do whatever I can, when I can. Sometimes with me I feel
compassion is a curse. But I know I am blessed to be a compassionate being. It
just takes its toll..
Patti
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Re: Mikey




My thoughts & prayers are with 
you.
Patti

Hard to vet





Patti,
Thanks for letting us know about Midnight's reaction to the Ace.  I
would probably go with the amitryptilline, because I've heard of good
results with it  

You've all heard me talk about our GSD, Zevon.  He is the sweetest,
most loving and gentle, (albeit, clumsy), creature at home, but when we
get the vet, look out.  It's like Jekel and Hide!  He had a VERY bad
experience at the vet once, and since then he acts like he wants to
tear anyone in a white coat's head off. (Pretty embarrassing for a dog
trainer!).  We usually ask the vet to come into the parking lot for the
exam, that really helps.  Another thing we have found that helps, is
for us not to be present while they are administering to him.  He's
much worse with us there.  The folks at the vet think it's because he's
being protective of us, I think it's because he feels like he's got
allies and it makes him more confident, (he figures his homies have his
back!).  At any rate, he turns into his sweet, docile self when we're
not with him.  I hate to watch him walking away from us, but it does
help.
Nina

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  While Ace Promazine works as a
sedative, I would be very careful with it's use.
  One of my dogs has several "issues",
and getting her to the vet is always an adventure. (She is aggressive,
among other things)
  All her bloodwork came back fine, but
she needs regular visits because of ear problems (related to allergies,
she's my vegan dog).
  My vet dispensed a low dose of ace to
be given prior to her vet appts.
  Approximately 15 minutes after giving
her the ace she started "seizing", it was terrible! I called the vet
and rushed her right in. My vet is 45 minutes drive. The seizures
apparently were a major factor that led her to have a stroke.
  Her condition was touch and go for
several days. A specialist was called in and the only explanation that
both Dr.s could come up with was a reaction to the ace promazine.
  Since that happened, we are reluctant
to use any type of drug that affects the nervous system. Also her age
is a factor..
  We were very lucky she made a full
recovery. (I LOVE MY VET!)
  So now, I have to muzzle her at home,
before we make the long drive. I've used the Rescue Remedy and other
flower extracts, but truthfully with her, I don't see any results.
  I just feel so bad for her because
it's always a traumatic event. But, despite her age, she still is a
pistol. It takes 3 of us to hold her for exam!
  I think the staff dreads her visits
as much as Middy does!
  I haven't heard of it being
avaialable as a compounded cream though. I know elavil (amitryptilline)
is, and we have used that on our ferals.
  I just thought I would share
Midnight's reaction to the Ace...
  Patti

Re: Two Door Deluxe Pet Porters for Cats/Kerry

one of the things i learned from FirstCat, who thought her job was to
mother the world, was to pet ferals/unfriendlies WHILE they were
eating cats who wouldn't let her near them would get so absorbed
in eating that she'd groom them the whole time!

i also have found sitting in the same space with them, with a good
book, works--they WILL come up to explore you, and if you seem to
ignore them, that piques their curiousity once one lets you touch
them, if there are others, they watch the trusting one and that seems
to make them more willing to give you a chance, too. i sing to them,
sometimes read aloud, and often make a complete fool out of myself
rolling balls back and forth between my hands, playing with feather
toys on my own, etc leaving EVERYTHING up to them... i also very
specifically TELL them that they are safe, that no one will ever hurt
them again, that i am very sorry that they are scared and have had bad
experiences with humans in their past... it seems to work, tho perhaps
it's just that they feel sorry for this obviously deranged human

http://www.athomevet.org/ is the website for the american association
of housecall veterinarians. i don't know how comprehensive it is, but
might be worthwhile checking out. i'm in an area with SIX housecall
vets so i'm incredibly spoiled. in addition, i know of a couple of
fixed-location vets in town who regularly do housecalls for clients
with rescue populations--they just don't admit it publicly! the
housecall vets here are no more expensive than regular vets, and in
many cases much less as they don't have the same overhead. likewise,
the fixed-location vets who do housecalls for large groups do not tend
to charge a premium for that--when it's not an emergency situation. it
can't hurt to ask your vet about it if they know your situation.
for ferals and scaredy-cats, you just need to herd them into a smaller
space a few hours in advance!

On 5/4/05, MacKenzie, Kerry N. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
> Thanks Nina--it's funny, they'll come up really close to me, touch me, when
> I'm sitting still as a statue, but the second I even slightly move--whoosh,
> they're gone. Last night, I sat with the dry food that they love right next
> to me. They did eat, but very warily, heads in the bowl. As son as I made
> the tiniest move, they flet. The boldest one, Flavia, came back, but this
> time she used her paw to get the food out ---so she could carry it off and
> eat it in peace. Very smart, but not progress! 
> Kerry 
>  
>   
>   
>   
>   
>  -Original Message-   
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Nina
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 5:22 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: Two Door Deluxe Pet Porters for Cats/Kerry
> 
> Kerry,
> That's what I do.  Sit next to them while they eat in there until they get
> comfortable with your presence.  Then start by just touching the door
> without actually moving it.  If they scoot out, tell them they're silly for
> being such scaredy cats!  Keep this up till they let you touch the door,
> then until they let you move the door, then till they let you shut the door.
>  I know, I know, this all takes time and patience.  When you first start
> shutting the door, they'll probably be pretty upset about it.  Almost
> immediately open the door and let them run if they want.  They'll come back
> to eat and won't be as spooked the next time you shut the door.  Remember,
> all beings are individuals, if this doesn't seem like it's going to work,
> we'll have to come up with something else!  Keep me informed about your
> progress.
> Nina
> 
> MacKenzie, Kerry N. wrote:
>  
>  
> Thanks for that Patti. I have a Petsmart just 2 blocks from me. Have you
> used them for ferals? If so, is there any trick you use to shut the door
> REALLY quickly once they're in? That's been my big problem in the
> past---soon as my hand goes out to shut the door, whoosh, they're outa
> there.<>I guess I'm going to have to try and get them used to me sitting
> right next to the carriers while they eat. kerry  
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
> If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.
> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the
> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. 

-- 
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: Mikey

2005-05-04 Thread Belinda Sauro

  Hi Leah,
 I'm sorry to hear that Mikey didn't make it.  He is your special angel 
at the rainbow bridge watching over you and your family until you are 
together again.  Take care.

--
Belinda
Happiness is being owned by cats ...
Be-Mi-Kitties ...
http://www.bemikitties.com
Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens
http://adopt.bemikitties.com
FeLV Candle Light Service
http://www.bemikitties.com/cls
HostDesign4U.com  (affordable hosting & web design)
http://HostDesign4U.com
---
BMK Designs (non-profit web sites)
http://bmk.bemikitties.com

Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral




Kerry,
This was one of the two 24 hour emergency clinics in 
the outskirts of Baltimore.  A very high volume place since they draw in a 
lot of patients from Pa.  The 24 hour clinic in Pa. is in Northern part of 
county, so going to Md. is quicker.
I truthfully don't know the answer about how/why they 
can do this. I just know in the emergency clinic, the "rules" were written in 
black and white.
The founder of the clinic is a very stern man, and I 
never saw any of the other vets go up against his policies.(They actually had a 
dog in their freezer for 6 months because owner did not have money for 
cremation! Sent it to collections, and meanwhile this poor animal just lays in 
the bottom of the freezer!)
I have to say, at the other vets I worked for there 
was one vet who was very compassionate, and she did refuse to euthanize healthy 
animals. It was with her help I was able to smuggle the 2 Maine Coone boys 
out...
But since the owner vet wanted to due the necropsy on 
the little Felv+ girl, we knew we couldn't smuggle her 
out.
I know this vet struggled with things that went on 
there, and had been "called" up on situations where if she was "on call" vet and 
there was a animal presented for euthanasia for no other reason than 
convenience, she would defer the client to one of the other 
vets.
And she was the only vet there that would pursue 
cruelty charges when animals were presented in severe cases of neglect. She sat 
on the floor one night, holding and comforting an old dog who was loaded with 
maggots coming out of every orifice in his body... All because he had wounds 
that were left unattended & the owner brought him in when she noticed the 
"smell". And the owners had "dropped" him off & said they'd check back in 
morning. This poor dog was obviously suffering and in a lot of pain. We bathed 
him, fed him and tried to contact the owners, to no avail. So she held him for 
the longest time and then eased his suffering. Which is a BIG NO! w/out owners 
consent. But she was so angry at what this dog had endured she did not want him 
to suffer anymore. And she did leave a scathing message on their answering 
machine. And did report them for abuse/neglect.
I hope for her sake she is practicing at a different 
facility. She was so kind. And she always appreciated when I would sit and hold 
the cats and dogs that were just lingering. I was also the only one who would 
handle the FIV or Felv cats. And the giant African tortoise, he weighed 
almost as much as me.
I have seen alot. Probably too much. And it has taken 
its' toll, I am burnt out.
I'm not as active as I had been over the last 20 years 
or so, but I still do whatever I can, when I can. Sometimes with me I feel 
compassion is a curse. But I know I am blessed to be a compassionate being. It 
just takes its toll..
Patti

Re: Mikey

2005-05-04 Thread Gloria B. Lane

Sleep soft, sweet MIkey -
My sincere condolences,
Gloria
At 10:30 AM 5/4/2005, you wrote:
Dear Everybody,
This is to let you know that Mikey has joined his brothers in cat 
heaven.  He did not respond to Monday's treatments, so the vet gave him a 
substantial amount of fluid yesterday evening, which revived him and I 
became hopeful that the dehydration was his only problem.  However, the 
revival did not last and he died in the early hours of this morning.  The 
vet has determined that, based on the array of symptoms, Mikey had an 
underlying liver problem and most likely a variety of organic issues 
resulting from that.  So the real problem was not the dehydration and lack 
of interest in eating.  These were results of the liver problem.

Belinda, please add Mikey to next week's Candlelight Service.
Many thanks to all who contributed healing messages and specific 
suggestions for caring for an FELV+ cat.

We still have Bubba, our 4 year old boy, who is going strong, to console us.
Leah

Re: Mikey

2005-05-04 Thread TatorBunz



Leah,
    I too am so sorry to hear about your furangel "Mikey". Mikey is now at the bridge running and trying to catch the butterflies with the others there. The time will come when you two will be together again someday. Bless you!
You are in my thoughts and prayers. 
 
 Terrie MohrCheck site for available Siameses for adoption!http://www.iGive.com/TAZZYShttps://www.paypal.com/TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTShttp://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescuehttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.htmlhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.htmlTAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTSSIAMESE & COLLIE RESCUEOwner/DriverPetfinder.comAdopt a Homeless Pet!http://www.petfinder.com/http://www.orecatay.com/http://www.awca.net/index.htmhttp://www.felineleukemia.org/http://www.petloss.com/http://www.meezer.com/http://thesiamesestore.com/http://tx.siameserescue.org/adopt.htmlhttp://ca.siameserescue.org/http://co.siameserescue.org/http://va.siameserescue.org/
<><>

Re: Mikey

2005-05-04 Thread Cherie A Gabbert

Leah,
I am so sorry to hear about MIckey, positive thoughts coming your way, again I know it is hard but try to be strong for Bubba. 
Cherie"Wolf, Leah R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dear Everybody,This is to let you know that Mikey has joined his brothers in cat heaven. He did not respond to Monday's treatments, so the vet gave him a substantial amount of fluid yesterday evening, which revived him and I became hopeful that the dehydration was his only problem. However, the revival did not last and he died in the early hours of this morning. The vet has determined that, based on the array of symptoms, Mikey had an underlying liver problem and most likely a variety of organic issues resulting from that. So the real problem was not the dehydration and lack of interest in eating. These were results of the liver problem.Belinda, please add Mikey to next week's Candlelight Service.Many thanks to all who contributed healing messages and specific suggestions for caring for an FELV+ cat.We still have Bubba, our 4 year old boy, who is going
 strong, to console us.Leah

re: Mikey

2005-05-04 Thread carlas

Leah

I am truly sorry for your loss of Mikey

May you find confort knowing he has joined his brothers.

I am sure they are  watching over you now.

Carla

Re: Mikey

2005-05-04 Thread Barb Moermond

Oh Leah, I'm so sorry!  Our thoughts and tears are with you and Bubba
 
<<<>"Wolf, Leah R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dear Everybody,This is to let you know that Mikey has joined his brothers in cat heaven. He did not respond to Monday's treatments, so the vet gave him a substantial amount of fluid yesterday evening, which revived him and I became hopeful that the dehydration was his only problem. However, the revival did not last and he died in the early hours of this morning. The vet has determined that, based on the array of symptoms, Mikey had an underlying liver problem and most likely a variety of organic issues resulting from that. So the real problem was not the dehydration and lack of interest in eating. These were results of the liver problem.Belinda, please add Mikey to next week's Candlelight Service.Many thanks to all who contributed healing messages and specific suggestions for caring for an FELV+ cat.We still have Bubba, our 4 year old boy, who is going
 strong, to console us.LeahBarb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito"My cat the clown:  paying no mind to whom he should impress.  Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile."- Anonymous__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

RE: Mikey

2005-05-04 Thread Hideyo Yamamoto

Leah, I am so sorry -  it's just too sad - I am crying with you. 
Please know Leah that his soul is right besides you still - so, please
don't be lonely - you may not be able to see him, but he can see you and
he feels your love and sorrow - 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wolf, Leah R.
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 9:31 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Mikey

Dear Everybody,

This is to let you know that Mikey has joined his brothers in cat
heaven.  He did not respond to Monday's treatments, so the vet gave him
a substantial amount of fluid yesterday evening, which revived him and I
became hopeful that the dehydration was his only problem.  However, the
revival did not last and he died in the early hours of this morning.
The vet has determined that, based on the array of symptoms, Mikey had
an underlying liver problem and most likely a variety of organic issues
resulting from that.  So the real problem was not the dehydration and
lack of interest in eating.  These were results of the liver problem.

Belinda, please add Mikey to next week's Candlelight Service.

Many thanks to all who contributed healing messages and specific
suggestions for caring for an FELV+ cat.

We still have Bubba, our 4 year old boy, who is going strong, to console
us.

Leah

RE: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

Title: Message

You really have
seen a lot of bad stuff. It appals me that a vet
would not treat a suffering animal. (What city was this?) The more I hear about
vets the more horrified I am about them in general. No wonder we are so grateful
when we find a decent human being among them. D'you think many of them start off
being decent but then become jaded and desensitized?

-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005
10:43 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: I need
ideas on best brand of carrier for feral
When I was working at the 24 Hour Emergency clinic
it broke my heart.
People would rush in with animals in dire need of
help, but if they couldn't put the money up front, then the vets would not even
consider seeing them.
I know that veterinary medicine is a business, but
w/ the prices they charge clients, sometimes it is impossible for someone to
come up with the money right them,
especially in an emergency situation.
And like I stated before, they had no problems
euthanizing animals just for any reason. Hell, it was money in their
pockets.
And after all my years working in no kill, I was
just appalled that vets would actually euthanize so many healthy animals. (were
moving, had "too" many,cats not using litterbox (DECLAWED, WONDER WHY?), and any
reason would do.
It's no wonder I am burnt out
now...
Patti
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

Re: Mikey

Oh gosh Leah, I am so sorry. poor brave little guy. the only thing that
consoles me after losing a furkid is knowing they are running free of pain
and problems over the bridge adn just waiting to pounce on us when it is our
turn to cross. Hope you will cherish the time you had with him and I;m glad
Bubba is there to "hug" you.
Barbara

RE: Mikey

Leah, I'm very sorry to hear the sad news about Mikey. Please accept my
condolences. Kerry

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wolf, Leah R.
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 10:31 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Mikey

Dear Everybody,

This is to let you know that Mikey has joined his brothers in cat
heaven.  He did not respond to Monday's treatments, so the vet gave him
a substantial amount of fluid yesterday evening, which revived him and I
became hopeful that the dehydration was his only problem.  However, the
revival did not last and he died in the early hours of this morning.
The vet has determined that, based on the array of symptoms, Mikey had
an underlying liver problem and most likely a variety of organic issues
resulting from that.  So the real problem was not the dehydration and
lack of interest in eating.  These were results of the liver problem.

Belinda, please add Mikey to next week's Candlelight Service.

Many thanks to all who contributed healing messages and specific
suggestions for caring for an FELV+ cat.

We still have Bubba, our 4 year old boy, who is going strong, to console
us.

Leah

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This 
message contains confidential information and is intended only for the 
individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not 
disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

RE: Mikey

2005-05-04 Thread Doljan, Joan

Leah,

I am so sorry about Mikey.

Joan

-Original Message-
From: Wolf, Leah R. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 11:31 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Mikey

Dear Everybody,

This is to let you know that Mikey has joined his brothers in cat heaven.
He did not respond to Monday's treatments, so the vet gave him a substantial
amount of fluid yesterday evening, which revived him and I became hopeful
that the dehydration was his only problem.  However, the revival did not
last and he died in the early hours of this morning.  The vet has determined
that, based on the array of symptoms, Mikey had an underlying liver problem
and most likely a variety of organic issues resulting from that.  So the
real problem was not the dehydration and lack of interest in eating.  These
were results of the liver problem.

Belinda, please add Mikey to next week's Candlelight Service.

Many thanks to all who contributed healing messages and specific suggestions
for caring for an FELV+ cat.

We still have Bubba, our 4 year old boy, who is going strong, to console us.

Leah

Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral




When I was working at the 24 Hour Emergency clinic 
it broke my heart.
People would rush in with animals in dire need of 
help, but if they couldn't put the money up front, then the vets would not even 
consider seeing them.
I know that veterinary medicine is a business, but 
w/ the prices they charge clients, sometimes it is impossible for someone to 
come up with the money right them, 
especially in an emergency situation.
And like I stated before, they had no problems 
euthanizing animals just for any reason. Hell, it was money in their 
pockets.
And after all my years working in no kill, I was 
just appalled that vets would actually euthanize so many healthy animals. (were 
moving, had "too" many,cats not using litterbox (DECLAWED, WONDER WHY?), and any 
reason would do.
It's no wonder I am burnt out 
now...
Patti

Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral





In a message dated 5/4/2005 11:05:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  she still has 
  horrendous problems with her ears<<
  That's tough. She was 
  lucky/smart to find a good home with you. 
Kerry

Yeah, just call me a sucker! But I knew she would not 
be able to have her special diet if she stayed at the shelter,and no one else 
could touch her ears, so that would have meant the previous ear surgeries 
were fruitless.
Also, I knew she was a "liability" for the shelter due 
to her aggressiveness, and it was only a matter of time before she would have 
been put in our "aggressive" dog kennel.
And, yes it's nice we have a place for these dogs, but 
seriously, many of them are VERY aggressive and I think living 24/7 in a kennel 
run w/out much human contact just makes them worse.
I am pro no kill shelters, but with these very 
aggressive/vicious dogs (26 last count), I sometimes wonder if we are doing the 
right thing for them.
And also, we have to turn down perfectly wonderful 
dogs due to space.
And having these dogs pose a serious risk. They have 
no fear, and are not the least bit hesitant to attack, either humans or other 
animals
It's just not much of a life for 
them.
And, there are a few that I have worked with and they 
trust me, but there are many that would eat me alive if given the 
chance...
As it stands right now with me having Midnight, I have 
a huge responsibility. Pa. has a "vicious dog act" and if she does bite someone 
I am faced with either euthanizing her or getting her out of 
state.
I guess I am a little bit "crazy" when it comes to my 
furkids.
Patti

Mikey

2005-05-04 Thread Wolf, Leah R.

Dear Everybody,

This is to let you know that Mikey has joined his brothers in cat heaven.  He 
did not respond to Monday's treatments, so the vet gave him a substantial 
amount of fluid yesterday evening, which revived him and I became hopeful that 
the dehydration was his only problem.  However, the revival did not last and he 
died in the early hours of this morning.  The vet has determined that, based on 
the array of symptoms, Mikey had an underlying liver problem and most likely a 
variety of organic issues resulting from that.  So the real problem was not the 
dehydration and lack of interest in eating.  These were results of the liver 
problem.

Belinda, please add Mikey to next week's Candlelight Service.

Many thanks to all who contributed healing messages and specific suggestions 
for caring for an FELV+ cat.

We still have Bubba, our 4 year old boy, who is going strong, to console us.


Leah

RE: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

Title: Message

What you are saying is sad but
so believable. (I don't know why I always assume that vets by and large are
compassionate. The same undoubtedly applies to human
doctors.)
The compassionate ones are
probably quite rare. I'm glad you found a goodie.
My housecall vet is definitely
not compassionate. Her behavior regarding Levy--who was dying--was cold and
uncaring. I never want to have to call her again. Kerry

-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005
10:14 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: I need
ideas on best brand of carrier for feral
There is a vet close by that does do house
calls. My friend uses her (she lives on a farm and in addition to her large
"family", she has 3 feral colonies that we relocated to her farm ). It works
very well for her, and she loves the vet.
But, I just "love" my vet, have used him for years,
and he works with my holistic vet and is always open to alternative treatments.
So, I really want to stay with him. He is so compassionate and
understanding.
And after working for several other vet practices, I
have seen first hand that money comes first, and compassion, if any, is way down
on their list of priorities. (I quit w/ the last vet after 'smuggling" the 2
Maine Coones outThose vets had NO problem with euthanizing healthy animals.
There was also a 6 month Felv+ tortie that was there for weeks, they were going
to euthanize & do a necropsy on!? She was so sweet and I felt so bad for
her. However, they would not let me take her because the one vet insisted he
wanted a necropsy done! Broke my heart, and I was out of there! Chrimminy, I
could have placed her in our Felv areaSo sad.)
Patti
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral




There is a vet  close by that does do house 
calls. My friend uses her (she lives on a farm and in addition to her large 
"family", she has 3 feral colonies that we relocated to her farm ). It works 
very well for her, and she loves the vet.
But, I just "love" my vet, have used him for years, 
and he works with my holistic vet and is always open to alternative treatments. 
So, I really want to stay with him. He is so compassionate and 
understanding.
And after working for several other vet practices, I 
have seen first hand that money comes first, and compassion, if any, is way down 
on their list of priorities. (I quit w/ the last vet after 'smuggling" the 2 
Maine Coones outThose vets had NO problem with euthanizing healthy animals. 
There was also a 6 month Felv+ tortie that was there for weeks, they were going 
to euthanize & do a necropsy on!? She was so sweet and I felt so bad for 
her. However, they would not let me take her because the one vet insisted he 
wanted a necropsy done! Broke my heart, and I was out of there! Chrimminy, I 
could have placed her in our Felv areaSo sad.)
Patti

RE: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

Title: Message



>she still has horrendous 
problems with her ears<<
That's tough. She was 
lucky/smart to find a good home with you. Kerry

-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 9:59 
AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: I need ideas 
on best brand of carrier for feral 
Yes, we were lucky. She's still as mean as ever. 
LOL!
Seriously, it was very scary and she was put on a very 
low dose. This poor girl has so many problems
I guess like any drug, it should be used with 
caution.
Who knows, with all her allergies maybe there is an 
ingredient in that specific drug she can't tolerate.
But now with her advanced age, we have decided not to 
try any more sedatives. Which means, further ear surgeries are no longer an 
option. And that's not good because she still has horrendous problems with her 
ears.
Patti
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral




Yes, we were lucky. She's still as mean as ever. 
LOL!
Seriously, it was very scary and she was put on a very 
low dose. This poor girl has so many problems
I guess like any drug, it should be used with 
caution.
Who knows, with all her allergies maybe there is an 
ingredient in that specific drug she can't tolerate.
But now with her advanced age, we have decided not to 
try any more sedatives. Which means, further ear surgeries are no longer an 
option. And that's not good because she still has horrendous problems with her 
ears.
Patti

RE: Thank you - Jada gets to compete on Friday

Title: Message



Well 
done Jada to get this far!

-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On Behalf Of Doljan, JoanSent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 7:35 
AMTo: 'felvtalk@felineleukemia.org'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 'Janice 
Ventura'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; Niki Dawson; 
'maggie raywood'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Subject: Thank you - Jada 
gets to compete on Friday
Thank you for voting 
for Jada. She will be able to compete on Friday and hopefully bring some 
attention to the Shelter she was adopted from.
 
JoanThis email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

RE: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

Title: Message



Yes--exactly what 
I was thinking recently. Kerry

-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 7:21 
AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: I need ideas 
on best brand of carrier for feral 

In a message dated 5/4/2005 8:17:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
With my 
  Big Boy, I know that by now I could get him into the carrier & get to vet, 
  but problem comes in when we get there

Wouldn't it be great if all vets made house 
calls??
PattiThis email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

RE: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

Title: Message

Yeah,
isn't it weird how they make such a fuss at home, but then are as quiet as mice
in the vet's office?

-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of ChrisSent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 7:17
AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: RE: I need ideas
on best brand of carrier for feral

I agree that every
medication has potential serious side effects and I guess we all weigh the risks
of giving it to the little guys. With my Big Boy, I know that by now
I could get him into the carrier & get to vet, but problem comes in when we
get there…. He absolutely goes wild & they have to hold him down with
one of those long nets at the end of a pole. Its almost impossible for
them to draw blood and do a general exam. Believe me, we have made vet
visits (3 in all) only when absolutely necessary! He has come a LONG way
since those initial visits and I am hoping that by the time of next visit later
this year, he will have gone even further & we can go without meds….. I had
a potential adoptive home for him who backed out at the last minute because of
this issue. My other cats put up a fuss at getting into the carrier
(you know, extend those arms to 3’ feet wide!), but they’re all marshmellows in
the vets office.

Chris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original
Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 10:26
PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: I need ideas on best brand of
carrier for feral

While
Ace Promazine works as a sedative, I would be very careful with it's
use.

One
of my dogs has several "issues", and getting her to the vet is always an
adventure. (She is aggressive, among other
things)

All
her bloodwork came back fine, but she needs regular visits because of ear
problems (related to allergies, she's my vegan
dog).

My
vet dispensed a low dose of ace to be given prior to her vet
appts.

Approximately
15 minutes after giving her the ace she started "seizing", it was terrible! I
called the vet and rushed her right in. My vet is 45 minutes drive. The seizures
apparently were a major factor that led her to have a
stroke.

Her
condition was touch and go for several days. A specialist was called in and the
only explanation that both Dr.s could come up with was a reaction to the ace
promazine.

Since
that happened, we are reluctant to use any type of drug that affects the nervous
system. Also her age is a factor..

We
were very lucky she made a full recovery. (I LOVE MY
VET!)

So
now, I have to muzzle her at home, before we make the long drive. I've used the
Rescue Remedy and other flower extracts, but truthfully with her, I don't see
any results.

I
just feel so bad for her because it's always a traumatic event. But, despite her
age, she still is a pistol. It takes 3 of us to hold her for
exam!

I
think the staff dreads her visits as much as Middy
does!

I
haven't heard of it being avaialable as a compounded cream though. I know elavil
(amitryptilline) is, and we have used that on our
ferals.

I
just thought I would share Midnight's reaction to the
Ace...

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RE: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

Title: Message

Wow---thanks for the warning
Patti. That's serious. Very glad to hear Midnight recovered.
Kerry
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 9:26
PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: I need ideas
on best brand of carrier for feral
While Ace Promazine works as a sedative, I would
be very careful with it's use.
One of my dogs has several "issues", and getting
her to the vet is always an adventure. (She is aggressive, among other
things)
All her bloodwork came back fine, but she needs
regular visits because of ear problems (related to allergies, she's my vegan
dog).
My vet dispensed a low dose of ace to be given
prior to her vet appts.
Approximately 15 minutes after giving her the ace
she started "seizing", it was terrible! I called the vet and rushed her right
in. My vet is 45 minutes drive. The seizures apparently were a major factor that
led her to have a stroke.
Her condition was touch and go for several days. A
specialist was called in and the only explanation that both Dr.s could come up
with was a reaction to the ace promazine.
Since that happened, we are reluctant to use any
type of drug that affects the nervous system. Also her age is a
factor..
We were very lucky she made a full recovery. (I
LOVE MY VET!)
So now, I have to muzzle her at home, before we
make the long drive. I've used the Rescue Remedy and other flower extracts, but
truthfully with her, I don't see any results.
I just feel so bad for her because it's always a
traumatic event. But, despite her age, she still is a pistol. It takes 3 of us
to hold her for exam!
I think the staff dreads her visits as much as
Middy does!
I haven't heard of it being avaialable as a
compounded cream though. I know elavil (amitryptilline) is, and we have used
that on our ferals.
I just thought I would share Midnight's reaction
to the Ace...
PattiThis email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

RE: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

Agree with you in principle--I'm just no longer happy with my housecall
vet. Would prefer not to have to use her again, but realize I may have
to. Kerry

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 9:07 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

NEVER underestimate the importance of house-call vets--some of my
older cats have never been out to a vet since they came into the house
from shelters! i can't imagine having to deal with that again!

-- 
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

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RE: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

Thanks Chris--I know exactly what you mean re their terror. It does make
you feel really awful for them. kerry
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:34 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral 

Rescue Remedy or Feliway didn't make a dent with him  Vet gave me
ace
after first visit but if your vet knows you already he will more than
likely
give it to you without seeing the cat just to avoid a horrific scene-its
apparently fairly commonly used and not considered a major
'tranquilizer'  

In Big Boy's case, during the first visit, he would not get out of the
'cage' I had him in & when they sort of forced him out he ran wild, hid
behind a bookcase in the office & was literally climbing the walls
trying to
get away.  I felt horrible for him as he was so terrified.  With the
ace, he
really mellowed out & though he was still scared, he was just not so
terrified...  

I can get doseage vet had given me for BB & tell you about when I found
it
was best to give it to BB (how many hours before visit) if you want 

Chris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MacKenzie,
Kerry
N.
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 11:04 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral 

Thanks Chris--I'll look into this ace promezine that you mention. I
haven't had luck with Rescue Remedy and Feliway prior to vet vists.
Did the vet give it to you without seeing Big Boy first? I'm not sure
mine will (which of course defeats the object). Kerry

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 9:52 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral 

Just a couple of ideas...
I have used a small dog crate (all wire) to put food in & get Big Boy
used
to eating it while I sat next to it.  Then I just closed the door & off
we
went.  That's how I trapped him.  Problem is once we got to vet--BB just
wouldn't come out & that first visit was pretty horrific!  

Vet game me 'ace promezine'(? On spelling)--that sure did the trick.  I
could pick him up, etc.  What I did was put a sherpa (soft sided
carrier) I
have on the bed where he likes to sleep & he just sort of curled up in
it &
went to sleep!  I then zipped the front opening & off we went again.
Both
times I had to do this, vet visit went a whole lot better--and as a
bonus, I
got to hold him to trim his nails (of course I had forgotten to ask vet
to
do it).  I would think this would also be good to give sub Q.  BB knew
everything that was going on but just didn't seem to care much--sort of
like
a nice high?  There were no long lasting side effects--he was just sort
of
real sleepy & staggering around a little for a few hours but was
absolutely
fine later on at night...

I'm not into all sorts of meds but I have to say that this really
reduced
poor BB's stress level.  He won't take pill pockets so I put this very
small
pill in some soft treats I know he really likes.  Also, can use cheese,
ham,
anything you can make into a small little ball they can sort of swallow
in
one gulp...

Chris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MacKenzie,
Kerry
N.
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 10:07 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral 

Hi everyone
Do any of you wonderful people have any ideas on the best carrier for a
feral? 
Here's what's needed:
1. They need to be able to enter it in the normal way to eat every day
so they get used to going in. 
2. I need to be able to close it quickly while they're in (remote
control would be the answer!) if I have to take them to the vet (or the
vet is coming to them). 
3. If they need a sub-Q, I need to do that while they're IN the
carrier--that would mean holding them down from the top, while I give
the sub Q. So it needs to open easily at the top--ie it's not going to
work if the top is fiddly to remove, because they'll escape while I'm
removing it. 
4. Other things I haven't thought of?!
Thanks for any brand/model suggestions!--Kerry

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RE: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

Touch their ears? That just in itself would be a champagne-popping
event. Nah, I just have to move my little finger half an inch and
they're gone. Outa there. The only means of touching them is indirectly,
with a long-handled toy (which Flavia particularly enjoys, tho she tries
hard not to show it. She pretends she's on a mission that requires her
to strut back and forth repeatedly past me from one end of the room to
the other, and in pursuing her mission has to "put up" with me stroking
her with the toy. :>))
Kerry

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 5:25 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral


I'm betting the house-call vet you've used will prescribe you some.  
Will they let you touch their ears?  I'm pretty sure you can get Ace in 
a transdermal.
Nina

MacKenzie, Kerry N. wrote:

>Thanks Chris--I'll look into this ace promezine that you mention. I
>haven't had luck with Rescue Remedy and Feliway prior to vet vists.
>Did the vet give it to you without seeing Big Boy first? I'm not sure
>mine will (which of course defeats the object). Kerry
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris
>Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 9:52 AM
>To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>Subject: RE: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral 
>
>
>Just a couple of ideas...
>I have used a small dog crate (all wire) to put food in & get Big Boy
>used
>to eating it while I sat next to it.  Then I just closed the door & off
>we
>went.  That's how I trapped him.  Problem is once we got to vet--BB
just
>wouldn't come out & that first visit was pretty horrific!  
>
>Vet game me 'ace promezine'(? On spelling)--that sure did the trick.  I
>could pick him up, etc.  What I did was put a sherpa (soft sided
>carrier) I
>have on the bed where he likes to sleep & he just sort of curled up in
>it &
>went to sleep!  I then zipped the front opening & off we went again.
>Both
>times I had to do this, vet visit went a whole lot better--and as a
>bonus, I
>got to hold him to trim his nails (of course I had forgotten to ask vet
>to
>do it).  I would think this would also be good to give sub Q.  BB knew
>everything that was going on but just didn't seem to care much--sort of
>like
>a nice high?  There were no long lasting side effects--he was just sort
>of
>real sleepy & staggering around a little for a few hours but was
>absolutely
>fine later on at night...
>
>I'm not into all sorts of meds but I have to say that this really
>reduced
>poor BB's stress level.  He won't take pill pockets so I put this very
>small
>pill in some soft treats I know he really likes.  Also, can use cheese,
>ham,
>anything you can make into a small little ball they can sort of swallow
>in
>one gulp...
>
>Chris
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MacKenzie,
>Kerry
>N.
>Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 10:07 AM
>To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>Subject: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral 
>
>Hi everyone
>Do any of you wonderful people have any ideas on the best carrier for a
>feral? 
>Here's what's needed:
>1. They need to be able to enter it in the normal way to eat every day
>so they get used to going in. 
>2. I need to be able to close it quickly while they're in (remote
>control would be the answer!) if I have to take them to the vet (or the
>vet is coming to them). 
>3. If they need a sub-Q, I need to do that while they're IN the
>carrier--that would mean holding them down from the top, while I give
>the sub Q. So it needs to open easily at the top--ie it's not going to
>work if the top is fiddly to remove, because they'll escape while I'm
>removing it. 
>4. Other things I haven't thought of?!
>Thanks for any brand/model suggestions!--Kerry
>
>This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>intended
>solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>addressed.
>If you have received this email in error please notify the system
>manager.
>This message contains confidential information and is intended only for
>the
>individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
>disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>


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RE: Two Door Deluxe Pet Porters for Cats/Kerry

Title: Message



Thanks 
Nina--it's funny, they'll come up really close to me, touch me, when I'm sitting 
still as a statue, but the second I even slightly move--whoosh, they're 
gone. Last night, I sat with the dry food that they love right next to me. They 
did eat, but very warily, heads in the bowl. As son as I made the tiniest move, 
they flet. The boldest one, Flavia, came back, but this time she used her paw to 
get the food out ---so she could carry it off and eat it in peace. Very smart, 
but not progress!
Kerry

 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-   From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On Behalf Of NinaSent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 5:22 
PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Two Door 
Deluxe Pet Porters for Cats/KerryKerry,That's 
what I do.  Sit next to them while they eat in there until they get 
comfortable with your presence.  Then start by just touching the door 
without actually moving it.  If they scoot out, tell them they're silly for 
being such scaredy cats!  Keep this up till they let you touch the door, 
then until they let you move the door, then till they let you shut the 
door.  I know, I know, this all takes time and patience.  When you 
first start shutting the door, they'll probably be pretty upset about it.  
Almost immediately open the door and let them run if they want.  They'll 
come back to eat and won't be as spooked the next time you shut the door.  
Remember, all beings are individuals, if this doesn't seem like it's going to 
work, we'll have to come up with something else!  Keep me informed about 
your progress.NinaMacKenzie, Kerry N. wrote:

  
  Thanks for that Patti. I have 
  a Petsmart just 2 blocks from me. Have you used them for ferals? If so, is 
  there any trick you use to shut the door REALLY quickly once they're in? 
  That's been my big problem in the past---soon as my hand goes out to shut the 
  door, whoosh, they're outa there.<>I guess I'm going to have to try and get 
  them used to me sitting right next to the carriers while they eat. 
  kerry  
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Re: Thank you - Jada gets to compete on Friday

Title: Message



Yeay! good luck!
barbara

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Doljan, Joan 
  To: 'felvtalk@felineleukemia.org' 
  ; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' 
  ; 'Janice Ventura' ; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' ; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' ; Niki Dawson ; 'maggie raywood' ; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 8:35 
  AM
  Subject: Thank you - Jada gets to compete 
  on Friday
  
  Thank you for 
  voting for Jada. She will be able to compete on Friday and hopefully bring 
  some attention to the Shelter she was adopted from.
   
  Joan

Thank you - Jada gets to compete on Friday

2005-05-04 Thread Doljan, Joan

Title: Message



Thank you for voting 
for Jada. She will be able to compete on Friday and hopefully bring some 
attention to the Shelter she was adopted from.
 
Joan

RE: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral

2005-05-04 Thread Chris










Thing is, all my guys
take off the minute they hear the doorbell and dragging BB out from under the
bed would be just as tough & dragging the others would be harder then
putting them in carriers!  I’ve had cats since I was a kid but back
then they were indoor-outdoor.  Those cats were never afraid of people who
came into the house but all of the cats I’ve had as an adult have been
indoor only and all immediately ran to hide when the doorbell rings or when
there is a loud noise in the hallway.  Even Big Boy who I brought in from
outside as an adult runs & hides when someone comes in.  Interestingly,
I was away for a few days recently & had someone come in to feed
them.  Big Boy was the only one who came out to see who this person was!

 



Chris

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 8:21
AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: I need ideas on best
brand of carrier for feral 

 





In a
message dated 5/4/2005 8:17:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:





With my Big Boy, I know
that by now I could get him into the carrier & get to vet, but problem
comes in when we get there







Wouldn't it be great if all vets made house calls??





Patti

Re: I need ideas on best brand of carrier for feral