[Felvtalk] FW: different types of Felv

[Amani Oakley]

Ardy

Thank you for your nice compliment. I think that the problem is that doctors 
and vets work in a world where they are well aware of the extreme and potent 
dangers posed by microorganisms. They presume that the rest of us know it too, 
but they don’t realize that precisely BECAUSE of the very effectiveness of 
vaccines, many diseases are rare now, so people dismiss them as not a big risk 
or not very dangerous. For example, I had to recently explain to my niece that 
German measles isn’t just a disease where you get a skin rash over your skin 
for a few days and then it disappears. I had to explain to her that German 
measles was once the cause of more than 20,000 babies born with severe defects 
such as major deformities, mental retardation, deafness, blindness, etc. or 
they died in utero – that was in 1964. I am not old enough to have this in my 
personal memory banks, but this knowledge and respect of the dangerousness of 
the virus, comes from my Microbiology training. Doctors and vets all learned 
this too and because they are reminded on a daily basis of the dangerousness of 
the world of microbes, I think they lose touch with the rest of the world who 
hears very little about these infections now, and thus (a) never developed a 
healthy fear of these diseases and (b) assume that the diseases must no longer 
be around or no longer be a problem. They are around and just waiting for that 
chink in the armour, to re-establish themselves, as we saw in the case of the 
measles outbreak in Disneyworld. German measles was the Zika virus of 
yesteryear (except measles was far more prevalent) and the only reason we 
aren’t as panicked about it now as we are about Zika, is thanks to an effective 
vaccine for measles.

However, Ardy, I am not sure about the FeLV vaccine. First, I understand that 
there are several different types of vaccines available. Second, the problem is 
that the vaccine is not effective if the cat already has the infection. I have 
found an Information Sheet from the Journal of Feline Medicine and Surgery 
(2013), which I will send to you directly, since I cannot attach things to 
emails on this chatline. Bottom line seems to be a recommendation to vaccinate 
as long as the status of the cat is tested first and is negative, and other 
cats in the house are similarly tested and are negative. However, they do red 
flag the fact that there are a bunch of different vaccines and most of the 
testing of those vaccines was only done by the company making the vaccine (ie – 
those who stand to benefit from the sale of the vaccine) and there are few 
studies comparing the effectiveness of the vaccines against one another.

I promise to keep digging but for now, I have too many other urgent fires I 
must put out at work! (I haven’t left the office before midnight for at least 3 
weeks now.)

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Ardy 
Robertson
Sent: June-11-16 2:05 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

See --- if the vets office ever explained anything like what you just did, I 
would realize the risk is worth it, but they don’t explain things. So you feel 
the FeLV vaccine is worth doing then? They sort of steered me against it at the 
store, and the shelter where Topaz came from. Topaz is about 13 months old now, 
according to the shelter’s vet’s best guess – I suppose based on her teeth?

Thanks,
Ardy



From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amani 
Oakley
Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 12:13 PM
To: Margo 
>; 
felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

I am VERY pro-vaccine. I have a lengthy and extensive background in 
Microbiology and there is a very solid scientific basis for my position. 
Unfortunately, my experience is that many many people who are anti-vaccine 
don’t understand how vaccines work and certainly don’t understand where we came 
from and just how many animals and people died from diseases we now have under 
control. The only reason that people can now get away with avoiding vaccines, 
whether that is in people or in animals, is because they are dependent on the 
herd immunity. You don’t need to worry too much about getting German measles if 
all your neighbours are vaccinated, and you don’t need to worry about 
vaccinating your dog for rabies if all the neighbourhood dogs and cats are 
vaccinated.

I completely agree and echo Margo’s observations. Be careful about this. People 
are deciding to forego vaccinations because they don’t see the awful 
repercussions often enough to be reminded of why vaccination is one of the most 
effective medical interventions in ever. If your cats are completely indoor, 
and you aren’t introducing new ones in all the time, then your risk is probably 

Re: [Felvtalk] Tucker and Kittens...

[ROBERT CHAPEL]

Rachel:
While I would like, of course, to see more people take the animals that 
are harder to place, you are hardly to be critiqued for giving a needy 
animal(s) a home.   I wouldn't take Kittens at my age ( 64) simply 
because there is a good chance that I would not outlive them ( with 
current health concerns) and I don't have anyone to leave them with when 
I go...  It KILLS me when I see animals that lived in a home for most of 
their lives brought to our shelter at age 14 or older because the owner 
passed away or became too infirm to take care of them any more.  Worse 
still when someone finds out ,after having the animal 10 years that they 
are " allergic " ( but I won't start on that one)  Enjoy 
themthey add such energy to a household!!
My one 9 month old still acts as though he is 6 weeks old and I VERY 
much wish he weighed the same todayHe'd wreck the place if I didn't 
keep an eye on him constantly



Bob
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

[Ardy Robertson]

See --- if the vets office ever explained anything like what you just did, I 
would realize the risk is worth it, but they don’t explain things. So you feel 
the FeLV vaccine is worth doing then? They sort of steered me against it at the 
store, and the shelter where Topaz came from. Topaz is about 13 months old now, 
according to the shelter’s vet’s best guess – I suppose based on her teeth?

 

Thanks,

Ardy

 

 

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amani 
Oakley
Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 12:13 PM
To: Margo ; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

 

I am VERY pro-vaccine. I have a lengthy and extensive background in 
Microbiology and there is a very solid scientific basis for my position. 
Unfortunately, my experience is that many many people who are anti-vaccine 
don’t understand how vaccines work and certainly don’t understand where we came 
from and just how many animals and people died from diseases we now have under 
control. The only reason that people can now get away with avoiding vaccines, 
whether that is in people or in animals, is because they are dependent on the 
herd immunity. You don’t need to worry too much about getting German measles if 
all your neighbours are vaccinated, and you don’t need to worry about 
vaccinating your dog for rabies if all the neighbourhood dogs and cats are 
vaccinated.

 

I completely agree and echo Margo’s observations. Be careful about this. People 
are deciding to forego vaccinations because they don’t see the awful 
repercussions often enough to be reminded of why vaccination is one of the most 
effective medical interventions in ever. If your cats are completely indoor, 
and you aren’t introducing new ones in all the time, then your risk is probably 
low and are probably okay to decide not to vaccinate regularly, with the 
important proviso Margo intelligently pointed out that sometimes animals get 
out despite our best efforts. Margo is also bang on when she cautions about the 
whiney world we live in where a mother will point to a scratch her precious 
child got while interacting with your cat and insist on testing to ensure that 
her coddled child is not going to die from your dirty animal. You’d better 
believe that in a contest between an animal’s life and a human being who has 
been “harmed” by contact with the animal – no matter how teensy weensy and 
inconsequential that harm may appear, or how unlikely it is that the animal is 
infected – that animal will die. You can hire the best lawyers in the country 
and pour as money as you’ve got into defending your animal, but it is an 
entirely lost cause. There isn’t a court in the world who will rule that the 
life of your cat isn’t worth the peace of mind of the mother and child.

 

Many vets agree that annual vaccinations are no longer needed, especially with 
indoor animals, but check with the laws in your area and don’t run afoul of 
them if you can help it. And don’t take for granted the power of the 
microorganisms that attack animals and humans. With animals, unfortunately, 
vaccine manufacturers likely rush a vaccine into production well before it 
reaches the level of proof and safety we expect in human medicine, and thus, 
for diseases like FeLV, the vaccine is iffy. However, considering what we all 
know – how lethal FeLV can be and how little is in the arsenal to fight it – it 
is not surprising that someone decided a partially or sometimes effective 
vaccine is better than no vaccine at all, until something better comes along. 
Same goes with rabies – it is lethal and a terrible and painful way to die and 
very transmissible. Again, the only reason people are taking chances with 
rabies now is because of the effectiveness of the rabies vaccine – most of us 
luckily never have seen an animal infected with rabies. So we get complacent. 
However, as Margo pointed out, in animal species who are not pet species and 
thus don’t have a high vaccination rate (like raccoons, foxes and skunks) 
rabies is still a significant threat. Where our animals may come in contact 
with skunks, raccoons and foxes, even inadvertently, it is not wise to have 
unvaccinated dogs and cats, though I agree that annual vaccinations are 
probably not necessary. As for vets and dog groomers, they may not ask if 
animals have been vaccinated because it was long the norm and the majority of 
people had vaccinated animals. With the spread of anti-vaccination messages, I 
predict this will soon enough become a problem again. (Just remember the 
measles outbreak in Disneyworld last year or the year before – too many 
complacent people assuming that measles as no longer a threat.) Just 
contemplate what the rabies vaccine has managed to accomplish – there are parts 
of the world that are completely rabies free (like Australia where Johnny Depp 
recently had his run-in with the Prime Minister over this). This 

Re: [Felvtalk] Tucker

[dlgegg]

AMEN!


 Amani Oakley  wrote: 
> Rachel my dear. You do not disappoint. Kittens need homes too. I have been 
> rescuing for years and years, and every once in a while I too decide it’s 
> time for a kitten. They perk up the whole household and it is a very 
> different experience than with an older cat. But seriously, it’s like picking 
> your favourite flower. They’re all beautiful, all have amazing unique 
> qualities, and all bring beauty and happiness into your life. You will be 
> smitten when you meet them, I am sure.
> 
> Amani
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Rachel Dagner
> Sent: June-11-16 9:45 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Tucker
> 
> Yes, the two I am looking at are girls as well and look very similar to 
> Tucker. I figure girls have way less of chance for getting blockages.  I know 
> I will disappoint a lot of people on here, as well as some friends that do 
> rescue by admitting they are young kitties and not old. I do feel a lot of 
> guilt because I don't want any kitty to not have a home, but in the end it 
> needs to be my decision and I have thought about the pros and cons a great 
> deal. I wish I could save them all.  I am praying my new kitty will get used 
> to riding in the car and will take her to work to get her used to it. Tucker 
> actually loved riding in the car, when he was homeless at work he used to 
> follow me to my car and put his paws up on the door ledge to get in. When I 
> did take him home he snuggled right in the crate and looked positively 
> content. I took him to the mountains on vacation. We had a nice cabin with a 
> huge screened porch so he could watch the wildlife. I also have the pet 
> tracking gps collar he had to wear on vacation just in case. I never left 
> Tucker or Daizy in the eleven years I had her with a sitter, where I go they 
> go or I just don't go, I don't trust anyone with my animals except my mom and 
> she lives in Texas. I want my new kitty to travel too if at all possible and 
> will work very hard to make this happen. I also hope to get her used to 
> brushing her teeth every night just like Daizy. And I hope that she and Daizy 
> will play together like she and Tucker did. I hope that Harry will fall in 
> love with her antics and cuteness like he did Tucker and come to appreciate 
> cats even more, and even fall in love with her.  I meet them tomorrow and 
> hope I feel something when I do. I desperately need to heal from this aching 
> emptiness. One thing I know for sure is that my kitty will never see a 
> shelter again. Even if I  die my family would never let that happen. It makes 
> me so mad that people adopt a pet only to later find it "inconvenient" for 
> whatever reason.  They give up their animal yet end up getting another one 
> later. Pets are forever for better or worse. Anyways I hope everyone still 
> likes me even though I am looking at young kitties after all they need a good 
> home and life too and one will have that with me for all of her days.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jun 10, 2016, at 9:29 PM, Ardy Robertson 
> > wrote:
> Rachel – you sound like you are going through a lot of the feelings I had 
> after Tigger passed away. I quite accidentally looked over at the kitties in 
> PetSmart – I was NOT going to look at them that day. But Topaz looks very 
> similar to Tigger even though she is a girl and Tigg was a boy. That somehow 
> is comforting – even though I am determined to not compare the two of them. I 
> even had GUILT about liking Topaz. But I did feel like I had to get her out 
> of that glass enclosure, and heck – I have a big house, what’s wrong with 
> bringing one home. You will know if it is okay to help out another 
> kitty…….Ardy
> 
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Rachel Dagner
> Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 8:50 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Tucker
> 
> I picked up Tucker’s ashes yesterday. I was really worried as I didn’t know 
> if it would make me feel better or worse. I haven’t eaten since Sunday my 
> appetite is nonexistent, I have managed to choke down a couple protein 
> shakes. My eyes are so swollen, I feel bad for anyone who has the misfortune 
> of looking at me, or being around me for that matter. Well, I of course cried 
> all of the way to the vets, and all the way home. But then I curled up in bed 
> with my little box of Tucker, and I actually did feel a little more at peace. 
> I laid there with him and went through my pictures again and talked to him 
> about all of my feelings and my love for him, about our memories and how much 
> I miss him.
> 
> I have actually been in touch with a rescue group I found on pet finder, they 
> test every cat for FELV/FIV while many others don’t. I know that 

Re: [Felvtalk] Tucker

[Amani Oakley]

Rachel my dear. You do not disappoint. Kittens need homes too. I have been 
rescuing for years and years, and every once in a while I too decide it’s time 
for a kitten. They perk up the whole household and it is a very different 
experience than with an older cat. But seriously, it’s like picking your 
favourite flower. They’re all beautiful, all have amazing unique qualities, and 
all bring beauty and happiness into your life. You will be smitten when you 
meet them, I am sure.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Rachel 
Dagner
Sent: June-11-16 9:45 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Tucker

Yes, the two I am looking at are girls as well and look very similar to Tucker. 
I figure girls have way less of chance for getting blockages.  I know I will 
disappoint a lot of people on here, as well as some friends that do rescue by 
admitting they are young kitties and not old. I do feel a lot of guilt because 
I don't want any kitty to not have a home, but in the end it needs to be my 
decision and I have thought about the pros and cons a great deal. I wish I 
could save them all.  I am praying my new kitty will get used to riding in the 
car and will take her to work to get her used to it. Tucker actually loved 
riding in the car, when he was homeless at work he used to follow me to my car 
and put his paws up on the door ledge to get in. When I did take him home he 
snuggled right in the crate and looked positively content. I took him to the 
mountains on vacation. We had a nice cabin with a huge screened porch so he 
could watch the wildlife. I also have the pet tracking gps collar he had to 
wear on vacation just in case. I never left Tucker or Daizy in the eleven years 
I had her with a sitter, where I go they go or I just don't go, I don't trust 
anyone with my animals except my mom and she lives in Texas. I want my new 
kitty to travel too if at all possible and will work very hard to make this 
happen. I also hope to get her used to brushing her teeth every night just like 
Daizy. And I hope that she and Daizy will play together like she and Tucker 
did. I hope that Harry will fall in love with her antics and cuteness like he 
did Tucker and come to appreciate cats even more, and even fall in love with 
her.  I meet them tomorrow and hope I feel something when I do. I desperately 
need to heal from this aching emptiness. One thing I know for sure is that my 
kitty will never see a shelter again. Even if I  die my family would never let 
that happen. It makes me so mad that people adopt a pet only to later find it 
"inconvenient" for whatever reason.  They give up their animal yet end up 
getting another one later. Pets are forever for better or worse. Anyways I hope 
everyone still likes me even though I am looking at young kitties after all 
they need a good home and life too and one will have that with me for all of 
her days.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 10, 2016, at 9:29 PM, Ardy Robertson 
> wrote:
Rachel – you sound like you are going through a lot of the feelings I had after 
Tigger passed away. I quite accidentally looked over at the kitties in PetSmart 
– I was NOT going to look at them that day. But Topaz looks very similar to 
Tigger even though she is a girl and Tigg was a boy. That somehow is comforting 
– even though I am determined to not compare the two of them. I even had GUILT 
about liking Topaz. But I did feel like I had to get her out of that glass 
enclosure, and heck – I have a big house, what’s wrong with bringing one home. 
You will know if it is okay to help out another kitty…….Ardy


From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Rachel 
Dagner
Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 8:50 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Tucker

I picked up Tucker’s ashes yesterday. I was really worried as I didn’t know if 
it would make me feel better or worse. I haven’t eaten since Sunday my appetite 
is nonexistent, I have managed to choke down a couple protein shakes. My eyes 
are so swollen, I feel bad for anyone who has the misfortune of looking at me, 
or being around me for that matter. Well, I of course cried all of the way to 
the vets, and all the way home. But then I curled up in bed with my little box 
of Tucker, and I actually did feel a little more at peace. I laid there with 
him and went through my pictures again and talked to him about all of my 
feelings and my love for him, about our memories and how much I miss him.

I have actually been in touch with a rescue group I found on pet finder, they 
test every cat for FELV/FIV while many others don’t. I know that there is no 
sure thing with testing, and I wouldn’t trade my time with Tucker for anything 
in the world. I just know that emotionally and financially I am not ready for 
FELV again right now. If it happens, just like with 

Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

[dlgegg]

My Shorty lost all his hair around the vaccination area.  He lost his appetite 
and was lethargic.  He recovered from that , but later died of seisures and 
stroke.  Never again will I geet a cat vacinanated.

 Ardy Robertson  wrote: 
> Yes – I know. When we moved to our new home 14 years ago, Scotchie got out 
> and was gone for two days, right after I had him vaccinated for rabies – I 
> think he was mad at me for taking him in. I took off work and searched for 
> him from morning to night. I finally found him on the second day and he was 
> in some bushes and would not come to me. He was acting weird. I went into the 
> bushes and got him and he was scared of me…and he hung on tight with his 
> claws, drawing some blood. He died a couple days later, and the vet asked if 
> he scratched me and I said yes. So they insisted on doing a test on his head 
> for $100 to see if he had rabies. They wanted to do a complete autopsy for 
> $700 and I said no – he was already gone. He had stopped eating/drinking 
> right after the rabies shot, and they gave him sub-q fluids and put him on 
> some pills that I found out later can cause convulsions in puppies. He had 
> convulsions and yet they did not think it was from the pills.
> 
>  
> 
> Ardy
> 
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Margo
> Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 5:29 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I KNOW I'm sounding very PRO vaccine, but I'm not. I've just seen the 
> consequences of not vaccinating. And with rabies, it isn't just that the 
> critter can get sick and die from something preventable. There's still PLENTY 
> of rabies in wildlife, and wildlife is closer to us that ever, especially the 
> most important vectors, being skunks and raccoons. Raccoons often occupy 
> attics. Skunks cn take up residence under porches.
> 
> I worked at an Animal Control facility. Just quickly, animals get out. There 
> are fires, and disasters. Sometimes when an animal has to be caught, a human 
> may be scratched or bitten. Quarantine isn't always an option, and if the 
> anial has injured someone, and that someone requests it, the animal MUST be 
> tested.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Ardy Robertson 
> Sent: Jun 9, 2016 12:18 AM 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org   
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, with the exception of Cally who is vaccinated, my cats are indoor-only 
> except when I carry them outside on walks. The vet said it is possible that a 
> mouse or bat could get inside, but not too likely.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Rachel Dagner
> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 9:42 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org  
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv
> 
>  
> 
> That book I mentioned by Dr. Martin Goldstein mentions all kinds of illnesses 
> that happened to animals coinciding with vaccines. Many vets believe that 
> after a couple of vaccines they are protected for life, Goldstein does 
> something called tittering so he can check the antibodies of his patients to 
> know if they need to have another vaccine. How likely is it that our cats 
> will get rabies? Slim to none and slim is out of town! Sorry about Scotchie. 
> :( Horrible. 
> 
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org 
>  ] On Behalf Of Ardy Robertson
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:43 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org  
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv
> 
>  
> 
> I’m not wild about rabies vaccinations either. My Butterscotch (“Scotchie”) 
> died right after having a rabies vaccination!
> 
> Ardy
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Rachel Dagner
> Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 3:33 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org  
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv
> 
>  
> 
> I have never heard of that, and I have read a lot about it.  And if they 
> can’t determine the difference how do they know one is more fatal? What did 
> he say about keeping them healthy? I still think that is the most important 
> thing of all, stop problems before they start. Has anyone’s vet ever advised 
> them against vaccines for a FELV cat, or minimal vaccines, or spacing them 
> out, being they have a compromised immune system? 
> 
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org 
>  ] On Behalf Of Realissa Dekraunti
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 4:02 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org  
> Subject: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv
> 
>  
> 

Re: [Felvtalk] Tucker

[dlgegg]

I agree!  I never go looking for another cat, they come to me, through a 
friend, a vet or just show up at my house.  I feed them and I am sunk, they 
stay.  ZI think God is sending me another soul to rescue and a rescue for me.  


 Ardy Robertson  wrote: 
> Rachel – you sound like you are going through a lot of the feelings I had 
> after Tigger passed away. I quite accidentally looked over at the kitties in 
> PetSmart – I was NOT going to look at them that day. But Topaz looks very 
> similar to Tigger even though she is a girl and Tigg was a boy. That somehow 
> is comforting – even though I am determined to not compare the two of them. I 
> even had GUILT about liking Topaz. But I did feel like I had to get her out 
> of that glass enclosure, and heck – I have a big house, what’s wrong with 
> bringing one home. You will know if it is okay to help out another 
> kitty…….Ardy
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Rachel Dagner
> Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 8:50 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Tucker
> 
>  
> 
> I picked up Tucker’s ashes yesterday. I was really worried as I didn’t know 
> if it would make me feel better or worse. I haven’t eaten since Sunday my 
> appetite is nonexistent, I have managed to choke down a couple protein 
> shakes. My eyes are so swollen, I feel bad for anyone who has the misfortune 
> of looking at me, or being around me for that matter. Well, I of course cried 
> all of the way to the vets, and all the way home. But then I curled up in bed 
> with my little box of Tucker, and I actually did feel a little more at peace. 
> I laid there with him and went through my pictures again and talked to him 
> about all of my feelings and my love for him, about our memories and how much 
> I miss him. 
> 
>  
> 
> I have actually been in touch with a rescue group I found on pet finder, they 
> test every cat for FELV/FIV while many others don’t. I know that there is no 
> sure thing with testing, and I wouldn’t trade my time with Tucker for 
> anything in the world. I just know that emotionally and financially I am not 
> ready for FELV again right now. If it happens, just like with any illness, 
> then I deal with it, because that is what you do.  I am going to Petsmart 
> over in Tampa on Sunday to meet their kitties, I have no idea if I will be 
> ready, or if this is what I desperately need to do to help me heal, but it 
> won’t hurt to go meet them and see how my heart feels. One of the greatest 
> gifts Tucker gave me is that “no cats” Harry, when I showed him a pictures of 
> a kitty on Pet finder he said  “Is that the one you want to get?” So I know 
> now that I will never again have to live without the feel of that soft fur on 
> my face or the heart melting sound of purring in my ear. It is so hard 
> because I am scared to get one, and I am scared not to. I guess we will see 
> what happens…
> 
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org 
>  ] On Behalf Of Ardy Robertson
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 11:59 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org  
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Tucker
> 
>  
> 
> I’m just so happy that you had that kind of relationship with your fur-baby. 
> The memories are wonderful. I recently adopted another cat even though I said 
> I would not. No one will ever take Tigger’s place in my heart, but Topaz is 
> easing the pain. I may never have that bond that I had with Tigger or like 
> you had with Tucker, but I figured that was not a reason to not try again, 
> and with all the little homeless kitties, I think Tigger would have wanted me 
> to help another kitty. Certainly take your time, but I hope you can open your 
> heart again at some point.
> 
>  
> 
> Ardy
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Rachel Dagner
> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 7:22 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org  
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Tucker
> 
>  
> 
> Thank you everyone for your kind replies. I knew it was going to be hard for 
> me, it has been even harder than I ever imagined. I went through all of my 
> adorable pictures of him last night. Remembered him how he was and imagined 
> him that way again. He was such a cool and handsome little guy. I only had 
> him for a year and a half. In that time we went through so much. Emergency 
> vet visits, surgeries, worry. I wouldn't change it for the world though. He 
> touched my life and heart so much. I opted for a private cremation, so I can 
> keep him close to me always. I was the one person in his life that he loved 
> and adored more than anything, and he never doubted my love for him.  
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> On Jun 8, 2016, at 8:02 AM, Katherine K.   

Re: [Felvtalk] Hello Terri (was: Different types of FeLV

[kat]

Hello Terri,

 

It's good to see you are still here!

 

Kat (Mew Jersey)

 

Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 at 11:45 PM
From: "Terri Brown" 
To: felvtalk 
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Different types of FeLV



I think she may have meant the FIV vaccine.  FIV vaccines will cause the cat to always test positive.  That is not the case with the FeLV vaccine.
 

Killed virus FeLV vaccine is safe.

 

(The lurker comes out of the shadows for this one)

=^..^= Terri, Guinevere, Travis, Dori, Kimiko and 8 furangels: Ruthie, Samantha, Arielle, Gareth, Alec, Salome, Sammi and Siggie the Tomato Vampire =^..^=
 
--
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 20:06:27 -0500
From: "Ardy Robertson" 
To: "'Margo'" ,

Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

Yes - she said because after they receive the FeLV vaccination, they always
test positive for FeLV. I did not know if this was true or not. She seemed
like she knew what she was talking about - she knows a lot about animal
nutrition etc. but of course is not a vet or anything.

Ardy

-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Margo
Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 5:12 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv


 Did the Pet Store Manager say why s/he did not approve?

Margo

-Original Message-
From: Ardy Robertson 
Sent: Jun 9, 2016 12:01 AM
To: felineres...@frontier.com, felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

My vet never said that exactly, but the pet store manager told me the
FeLV vaccine is not a good idea.

Ardy

-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf
Of Lorrie
Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 7:38 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

Has anyone's vet ever advised them against vaccines for a FELV
cat, or minimal vaccines, or spacing them out, being they have a
compromised immune system?


My vet will not give vaccinations to any FelV cats, nor to any of my
old cats. She also does not tell me to euthanize a FelV cat. Some
positive cats can live long lives in spite of having the virus.

It is encouraging to know that FelV is NOT a death sentence with every cat.
Usually if is fatal with kittens however, as their immune systems are
not fully developed.


Lorrie

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 20:09:39 -0500
From: "Ardy Robertson" 
To: "'Margo'" ,
felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv
Message-ID: <017f01d1c37d$ee8a62b0$cb9f2810$@centurytel.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I know... I could not believe that she told me that. And yes, her dogs
are in contact with the dogs that go to her classes and also to her doggie
day care. Maybe she had to get them vaccinated when she went on her own and
opened her own business but when she worked at a different one, they were
not vaccinated. Yes, I agree she could get in trouble too - and yet, I see
her point too.

Ardy
 

-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Margo
Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 5:22 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv


I have fed raw, but don't currently.

If the trainer's dogs have contact with clients or other dogs, s/he should
be careful. That's the kind of high profile that can bring trouble. It only
takes one person telling the "wrong" person that she doesn't vaccinate, and
she could be in deep doo-doo.
 

It is possible in some states to get a "waiver" allowing a cat to not be
vaccinated for health reasons, but the cat/dog is treated as unvaccinated
and subjected to the same conditions as an unvaccinated animal.

It's a choice, but needs to be made with care.

Margo

-Original Message-
From: Ardy Robertson 
Sent: Jun 9, 2016 12:16 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

In Wisconsin, rabies vaccinations are actually required for dogs, but
not for cats. But a lot of vets will not treat a cat that is not rabies
vaccinated. Since Scotchie died from a rabies vaccination, I do not
vaccinate for it unless they make me. Cally had to have surgery to be
spayed, so she had to be vaccinated for rabies and she came through fine.
And Topaz was already vaccinated when I adopted her.

I know a very reputable dog trainer who actually runs a doggie day-care
and training center, and she has three dogs of her own and does not
have 

Re: [Felvtalk] Tucker

[Rachel Dagner]

Yes, the two I am looking at are girls as well and look very similar to Tucker. 
I figure girls have way less of chance for getting blockages.  I know I will 
disappoint a lot of people on here, as well as some friends that do rescue by 
admitting they are young kitties and not old. I do feel a lot of guilt because 
I don't want any kitty to not have a home, but in the end it needs to be my 
decision and I have thought about the pros and cons a great deal. I wish I 
could save them all.  I am praying my new kitty will get used to riding in the 
car and will take her to work to get her used to it. Tucker actually loved 
riding in the car, when he was homeless at work he used to follow me to my car 
and put his paws up on the door ledge to get in. When I did take him home he 
snuggled right in the crate and looked positively content. I took him to the 
mountains on vacation. We had a nice cabin with a huge screened porch so he 
could watch the wildlife. I also have the pet tracking gps collar he had to 
wear on vacation just in case. I never left Tucker or Daizy in the eleven years 
I had her with a sitter, where I go they go or I just don't go, I don't trust 
anyone with my animals except my mom and she lives in Texas. I want my new 
kitty to travel too if at all possible and will work very hard to make this 
happen. I also hope to get her used to brushing her teeth every night just like 
Daizy. And I hope that she and Daizy will play together like she and Tucker 
did. I hope that Harry will fall in love with her antics and cuteness like he 
did Tucker and come to appreciate cats even more, and even fall in love with 
her.  I meet them tomorrow and hope I feel something when I do. I desperately 
need to heal from this aching emptiness. One thing I know for sure is that my 
kitty will never see a shelter again. Even if I  die my family would never let 
that happen. It makes me so mad that people adopt a pet only to later find it 
"inconvenient" for whatever reason.  They give up their animal yet end up 
getting another one later. Pets are forever for better or worse. Anyways I hope 
everyone still likes me even though I am looking at young kitties after all 
they need a good home and life too and one will have that with me for all of 
her days. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 10, 2016, at 9:29 PM, Ardy Robertson  wrote:
> 
> Rachel – you sound like you are going through a lot of the feelings I had 
> after Tigger passed away. I quite accidentally looked over at the kitties in 
> PetSmart – I was NOT going to look at them that day. But Topaz looks very 
> similar to Tigger even though she is a girl and Tigg was a boy. That somehow 
> is comforting – even though I am determined to not compare the two of them. I 
> even had GUILT about liking Topaz. But I did feel like I had to get her out 
> of that glass enclosure, and heck – I have a big house, what’s wrong with 
> bringing one home. You will know if it is okay to help out another 
> kitty…….Ardy
>  
>  
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Rachel Dagner
> Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 8:50 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Tucker
>  
> I picked up Tucker’s ashes yesterday. I was really worried as I didn’t know 
> if it would make me feel better or worse. I haven’t eaten since Sunday my 
> appetite is nonexistent, I have managed to choke down a couple protein 
> shakes. My eyes are so swollen, I feel bad for anyone who has the misfortune 
> of looking at me, or being around me for that matter. Well, I of course cried 
> all of the way to the vets, and all the way home. But then I curled up in bed 
> with my little box of Tucker, and I actually did feel a little more at peace. 
> I laid there with him and went through my pictures again and talked to him 
> about all of my feelings and my love for him, about our memories and how much 
> I miss him.
>  
> I have actually been in touch with a rescue group I found on pet finder, they 
> test every cat for FELV/FIV while many others don’t. I know that there is no 
> sure thing with testing, and I wouldn’t trade my time with Tucker for 
> anything in the world. I just know that emotionally and financially I am not 
> ready for FELV again right now. If it happens, just like with any illness, 
> then I deal with it, because that is what you do.  I am going to Petsmart 
> over in Tampa on Sunday to meet their kitties, I have no idea if I will be 
> ready, or if this is what I desperately need to do to help me heal, but it 
> won’t hurt to go meet them and see how my heart feels. One of the greatest 
> gifts Tucker gave me is that “no cats” Harry, when I showed him a pictures of 
> a kitty on Pet finder he said  “Is that the one you want to get?” So I know 
> now that I will never again have to live without the feel of that soft fur on 
> my face or the heart melting sound of purring in my ear. It is so hard 
> because I am 

Re: [Felvtalk] Different types of FeLV

[Margo]

I strongly disagree. "Killed" (inactivated) vaccines contain adjuvants. Those adjuvants have been implicated in the development of FISS in vaccinated cats. Of course, even non-adjuvanted vaccines have resulted in the same, but the name has been changed from VAS to FISS because it nows seems that ANY Injection can be associated with the tumors.I use Purevax recombinant vaccines for both rabies and FeLV, which are considered the most likely to be associated with FISS. From this article ;http://catinfo.org/?link=vaccines"If you are 
		more comfortable vaccinating a cat that 
		goes outside, please do not vaccinate 
		him yearly.  Vaccinating one time 
		with a PureVax (the only 
		NON-adjuvanted option) vaccine would fit 
		within my comfort zone."I use NO Killed Vaccines.Margo  -Original Message-
From: Terri Brown 
Sent: Jun 10, 2016 11:45 PM
To: felvtalk 
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Different types of FeLV




I think she may have meant the FIV vaccine.  FIV vaccines will cause the cat to always test positive.  That is not the case with the FeLV vaccine.Killed virus FeLV vaccine is safe.(The lurker comes out of the shadows for this one)=^..^= Terri, Guinevere, Travis, Dori, Kimiko and 8 furangels: Ruthie, Samantha, 
Arielle, Gareth, Alec, Salome, Sammi and Siggie the Tomato Vampire =^..^=--Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 20:06:27 -0500From: "Ardy Robertson" To: "'Margo'" ,Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of FelvYes - she said because after they receive the FeLV vaccination, they alwaystest positive for FeLV. I did not know if this was true or not. She seemedlike she knew what she was talking about - she knows a lot about animalnutrition etc. but of course is not a vet or anything.Ardy-Original Message-From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf OfMargoSent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 5:12 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv Did the Pet Store Manager say why s/he did not approve?Margo-Original Message-From: Ardy Robertson Sent: Jun 9, 2016 12:01 AMTo: felineres...@frontier.com, felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of FelvMy vet never said that exactly, but the pet store manager told me the FeLV vaccine is not a good idea.Ardy-Original Message-From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of LorrieSent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 7:38 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of FelvHas anyone's vet ever advised them against vaccines for a FELVcat, or minimal vaccines, or spacing them out, being they have acompromised immune system?My vet will not give vaccinations to any FelV cats, nor to any of my old cats.  She also does not tell me to euthanize a FelV cat. Some positive cats can live long lives in spite of having the virus.It is encouraging to know that FelV is NOT a death sentence with every cat.Usually if is fatal with kittens however, as their immune systems are not fully developed.Lorrie___Felvtalk mailing listFelvtalk@felineleukemia.orghttp://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.orgDate: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 20:09:39 -0500From: "Ardy Robertson" To: "'Margo'" ,felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of FelvMessage-ID: <017f01d1c37d$ee8a62b0$cb9f2810$@centurytel.net>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"I know... I could not believe that she told me that. And yes, her dogsare in contact with the dogs that go to her classes and also to her doggieday care. Maybe she had to get them vaccinated when she went on her own andopened her own business but when she worked at a different one, they werenot vaccinated. Yes, I agree she could get in trouble too - and yet, I seeher point too.Ardy-Original Message-From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf OfMargoSent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 5:22 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of FelvI have fed raw, but don't currently.If the trainer's dogs have contact with clients or other dogs, s/he shouldbe careful. That's the kind of high profile that can bring trouble. It onlytakes one person telling the "wrong" person that she doesn't vaccinate, andshe could be in deep doo-doo. It is possible in some states to get a "waiver" allowing a cat to not bevaccinated for health reasons, but the cat/dog is treated as unvaccinatedand subjected to the same conditions as an unvaccinated animal.It's a choice, but needs to be made with care. Margo-Original Message-From: Ardy Robertson