Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results!
Wow..thank you! Sent from my iPhone On Dec 7, 2011, at 5:49 PM, molvey...@hotmail.com molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: That's about as deep as my medical knowledge goes too. My poor vet had a time explaining it to me. I didn't know white blood cells are made in the bone marrow. I didn't even realize something could be in your bloodstream but not in your white blood cells. As much as I get annoyed with vets and doctors they do have to go through a lot of training to learn all this stuff. sent from my ATT Smartphone by HTC - Reply message - From: Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com Date: Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:57 pm Subject: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org That's the most easy to understand explanation I've heard yet :) Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: Here's how my vet friend explained things to me which will clarify a little about what Beth is saying about the IFA test. The IFA test looks to see if the virus is in the white blood cells. It's not a bone marrow test however, white blood cells are produced in the bone marrow, so if the virus is in the white blood cells then it's because it's replicating in the bone marrow. If it's not replicating in the bone marrow the FeLV virus could still be in the bone marrow but dormant. You wouldn't know that without a bone marrow test because it's just sitting there not doing anything and not spreading or causing problems. So here's what the vet has told me about the all ways of testing: The first screening test is the ELISA test. The ELISA test can be performed two ways. It can be done using a snap test kit in the vet's office or the blood sample can be sent to a lab where they do a Well test. The well test is also an ELISA test that looks for small fragments of the virus in the bloodstream but just done a different way and uses a much larger blood sample. The ELISA test that is done with a snap test kit in the vet's office is also called a combo test because it looks for FIV also. Then there is the 3 way snap test kit which looks for FIV, FeLV and heartworms. I think the ELISA test that is done in a well by sending the blood to a lab just looks for FeLV, not the other two. I'm not positive though. So, the ELISA test looks to see if there are small fragments of the virus in the blood stream. Part of the virus could be in the bloodstream but not in the white blood cells. It gets into the oral cavities and bloodstream before it goes into the bone marrow. When it gets into the bone marrow it could start replicating and then it gets into the white blood cells. The IFA test looks to see if the virus is in the white blood cells. So from my understanding, the virus has to progress from the bloodstream into the bone marrow and replicate like Beth is saying to get into the white blood cells. Usually once it's starts replicating in the bone marrow and getting into the white blood cells the cat will not be able to fight off the virus. FYI - my vet has also said that the 3 way snap test kits don't seem to be as reliable as the combo snap test kit. So that's a very simple and basic way of explaining the different ways of testing and what they look at to determine what stage the virus is in as it spreads throughout the body. That's my understanding and I hope it's correct. Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 08:12:39 -0800 From: create_me_...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! The IFA tests weather the virus is replicating in the bone marrow. You can have a positive SNAP a negative IFA. This does NOT mean the cat is negative. It just means the virus is not replicating in the bone marrow. Any test can be done wrong labs can mix up donors with specimins. It happens with humans, it can certainly happen in our pets. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2011 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! The IFA is not testing the bone marrow, thoughthat would be yet another test. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:57 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! It is possible the SNAP tests were positive an IFA was negative because the virus had not progressed to the bone marrow. I also wonder if the SNAP tests that were positive were done on the new 3way tests. Our shelter stopped using them because they were not dependable. Kat Parker korruptaki...@gmail.com wrote: *Very scary.. see below..* --Original Message-- From: Ellen Fawl
Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results!
The IFA is not testing the bone marrow, thoughthat would be yet another test. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:57 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! It is possible the SNAP tests were positive an IFA was negative because the virus had not progressed to the bone marrow. I also wonder if the SNAP tests that were positive were done on the new 3way tests. Our shelter stopped using them because they were not dependable. Kat Parker korruptaki...@gmail.com wrote: *Very scary.. see below..* --Original Message-- From: Ellen Fawl To: rescuealliancew...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Scary FELV test results! Sent: Nov 22, 2011 11:16 PM I need to share this so it can get to the FELV Lists and whomever is following this testing debacle. We took in 5 Persians last week. We had them combo tested with the standard Snap test. All five tested positive. We had blood work done on one cat and it came back negative. We assumed the tests were done wrong so they redid them two days ago. All four remaining cats tested positive AGAIN. We had blood work taken on all four, sent it in, and all four came back negative. This is really scary stuff. Cats are killed all the time because they test positive. Had we heard about these cats being in a shelter testing positive it's not likely we could have taken them in. The vet office in Santa Cruz is going to follow up with the company, but if there is anyone else out there tracking this stuff, I want to get the information to them. Ellen * Love and Katnip, ~Kat~ =^,,^= **I'm Kat Parker. I park cats.** **Keep your kitties INSIDE, 24/7, 'cause an inside cat is a SAFE HAPPY cat!* ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results!
The IFA tests weather the virus is replicating in the bone marrow. You can have a positive SNAP a negative IFA. This does NOT mean the cat is negative. It just means the virus is not replicating in the bone marrow. Any test can be done wrong labs can mix up donors with specimins. It happens with humans, it can certainly happen in our pets. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2011 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! The IFA is not testing the bone marrow, thoughthat would be yet another test. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:57 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! It is possible the SNAP tests were positive an IFA was negative because the virus had not progressed to the bone marrow. I also wonder if the SNAP tests that were positive were done on the new 3way tests. Our shelter stopped using them because they were not dependable. Kat Parker korruptaki...@gmail.com wrote: *Very scary.. see below..* --Original Message-- From: Ellen Fawl To: rescuealliancew...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Scary FELV test results! Sent: Nov 22, 2011 11:16 PM I need to share this so it can get to the FELV Lists and whomever is following this testing debacle. We took in 5 Persians last week. We had them combo tested with the standard Snap test. All five tested positive. We had blood work done on one cat and it came back negative. We assumed the tests were done wrong so they redid them two days ago. All four remaining cats tested positive AGAIN. We had blood work taken on all four, sent it in, and all four came back negative. This is really scary stuff. Cats are killed all the time because they test positive. Had we heard about these cats being in a shelter testing positive it's not likely we could have taken them in. The vet office in Santa Cruz is going to follow up with the company, but if there is anyone else out there tracking this stuff, I want to get the information to them. Ellen * Love and Katnip, ~Kat~ =^,,^= **I'm Kat Parker. I park cats.** **Keep your kitties INSIDE, 24/7, 'cause an inside cat is a SAFE HAPPY cat!* ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results!
This is absolutely horrible! And to think that lives depend on this! Sent from my iPhone On Dec 6, 2011, at 4:14 PM, Kat Parker korruptaki...@gmail.com wrote: Very scary.. see below.. --Original Message-- From: Ellen Fawl To: rescuealliancew...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Scary FELV test results! Sent: Nov 22, 2011 11:16 PM I need to share this so it can get to the FELV Lists and whomever is following this testing debacle. We took in 5 Persians last week. We had them combo tested with the standard Snap test. All five tested positive. We had blood work done on one cat and it came back negative. We assumed the tests were done wrong so they redid them two days ago. All four remaining cats tested positive AGAIN. We had blood work taken on all four, sent it in, and all four came back negative. This is really scary stuff. Cats are killed all the time because they test positive. Had we heard about these cats being in a shelter testing positive it's not likely we could have taken them in. The vet office in Santa Cruz is going to follow up with the company, but if there is anyone else out there tracking this stuff, I want to get the information to them. Ellen Love and Katnip, ~Kat~ =^,,^= I'm Kat Parker. I park cats. Keep your kitties INSIDE, 24/7, 'cause an inside cat is a SAFE HAPPY cat! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results!
Here's how my vet friend explained things to me which will clarify a little about what Beth is saying about the IFA test. The IFA test looks to see if the virus is in the white blood cells. It's not a bone marrow test however, white blood cells are produced in the bone marrow, so if the virus is in the white blood cells then it's because it's replicating in the bone marrow. If it's not replicating in the bone marrow the FeLV virus could still be in the bone marrow but dormant. You wouldn't know that without a bone marrow test because it's just sitting there not doing anything and not spreading or causing problems. So here's what the vet has told me about the all ways of testing: The first screening test is the ELISA test. The ELISA test can be performed two ways. It can be done using a snap test kit in the vet's office or the blood sample can be sent to a lab where they do a Well test. The well test is also an ELISA test that looks for small fragments of the virus in the bloodstream but just done a different way and uses a much larger blood sample. The ELISA test that is done with a snap test kit in the vet's office is also called a combo test because it looks for FIV also. Then there is the 3 way snap test kit which looks for FIV, FeLV and heartworms. I think the ELISA test that is done in a well by sending the blood to a lab just looks for FeLV, not the other two. I'm not positive though. So, the ELISA test looks to see if there are small fragments of the virus in the blood stream. Part of the virus could be in the bloodstream but not in the white blood cells. It gets into the oral cavities and bloodstream before it goes into the bone marrow. When it gets into the bone marrow it could start replicating and then it gets into the white blood cells. The IFA test looks to see if the virus is in the white blood cells. So from my understanding, the virus has to progress from the bloodstream into the bone marrow and replicate like Beth is saying to get into the white blood cells. Usually once it's starts replicating in the bone marrow and getting into the white blood cells the cat will not be able to fight off the virus. FYI - my vet has also said that the 3 way snap test kits don't seem to be as reliable as the combo snap test kit. So that's a very simple and basic way of explaining the different ways of testing and what they look at to determine what stage the virus is in as it spreads throughout the body. That's my understanding and I hope it's correct. Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 08:12:39 -0800 From: create_me_...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! The IFA tests weather the virus is replicating in the bone marrow. You can have a positive SNAP a negative IFA. This does NOT mean the cat is negative. It just means the virus is not replicating in the bone marrow. Any test can be done wrong labs can mix up donors with specimins. It happens with humans, it can certainly happen in our pets. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2011 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! The IFA is not testing the bone marrow, thoughthat would be yet another test. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:57 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! It is possible the SNAP tests were positive an IFA was negative because the virus had not progressed to the bone marrow. I also wonder if the SNAP tests that were positive were done on the new 3way tests. Our shelter stopped using them because they were not dependable. Kat Parker korruptaki...@gmail.com wrote: *Very scary.. see below..* --Original Message-- From: Ellen Fawl To: rescuealliancew...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Scary FELV test results! Sent: Nov 22, 2011 11:16 PM I need to share this so it can get to the FELV Lists and whomever is following this testing debacle. We took in 5 Persians last week. We had them combo tested with the standard Snap test. All five tested positive. We had blood work done on one cat and it came back negative. We assumed the tests were done wrong so they redid them two days ago. All four remaining cats tested positive AGAIN. We had blood work taken on all four, sent it in, and all four came back negative. This is really scary stuff. Cats are killed all the time because they test positive. Had we heard about these cats being in a shelter testing positive it's not likely we could have taken them in. The vet office in Santa Cruz is going to follow up with the company, but if there is anyone else out there tracking this stuff, I want to get the information to them. Ellen * Love and Katnip
Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results!
Thisi is not reagarding Felk virus per se. But I wanted to share as it can be somewhat relevant. I have at least 6 or 7 kitties who was tested negative on SNAP test on FIV - but came back as positve on ELISA at LAB - but whenever this happened, SNAP test result ended up being the correct one, and ELISA at LAB was false positive - as they all ended up being negative via Western BLot - what I was told by the lab expert at Cornell University was that, ELISA test can be too sensitive and can cause false positive - I never had reverse results - just as FYI. From: molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 16:40:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! Here's how my vet friend explained things to me which will clarify a little about what Beth is saying about the IFA test. The IFA test looks to see if the virus is in the white blood cells. It's not a bone marrow test however, white blood cells are produced in the bone marrow, so if the virus is in the white blood cells then it's because it's replicating in the bone marrow. If it's not replicating in the bone marrow the FeLV virus could still be in the bone marrow but dormant. You wouldn't know that without a bone marrow test because it's just sitting there not doing anything and not spreading or causing problems. So here's what the vet has told me about the all ways of testing: The first screening test is the ELISA test. The ELISA test can be performed two ways. It can be done using a snap test kit in the vet's office or the blood sample can be sent to a lab where they do a Well test. The well test is also an ELISA test that looks for small fragments of the virus in the bloodstream but just done a different way and uses a much larger blood sample. The ELISA test that is done with a snap test kit in the vet's office is also called a combo test because it looks for FIV also. Then there is the 3 way snap test kit which looks for FIV, FeLV and heartworms. I think the ELISA test that is done in a well by sending the blood to a lab just looks for FeLV, not the other two. I'm not positive though. So, the ELISA test looks to see if there are small fragments of the virus in the blood stream. Part of the virus could be in the bloodstream but not in the white blood cells. It gets into the oral cavities and bloodstream before it goes into the bone marrow. When it gets into the bone marrow it could start replicating and then it gets into the white blood cells. The IFA test looks to see if the virus is in the white blood cells. So from my understanding, the virus has to progress from the bloodstream into the bone marrow and replicate like Beth is saying to get into the white blood cells. Usually once it's starts replicating in the bone marrow and getting into the white blood cells the cat will not be able to fight off the virus. FYI - my vet has also said that the 3 way snap test kits don't seem to be as reliable as the combo snap test kit. So that's a very simple and basic way of explaining the different ways of testing and what they look at to determine what stage the virus is in as it spreads throughout the body. That's my understanding and I hope it's correct. Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 08:12:39 -0800 From: create_me_...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! The IFA tests weather the virus is replicating in the bone marrow. You can have a positive SNAP a negative IFA. This does NOT mean the cat is negative. It just means the virus is not replicating in the bone marrow. Any test can be done wrong labs can mix up donors with specimins. It happens with humans, it can certainly happen in our pets. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2011 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! The IFA is not testing the bone marrow, thoughthat would be yet another test. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:57 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! It is possible the SNAP tests were positive an IFA was negative because the virus had not progressed to the bone marrow. I also wonder if the SNAP tests that were positive were done on the new 3way tests. Our shelter stopped using them because they were not dependable. Kat Parker korruptaki...@gmail.com wrote: *Very scary.. see below..* --Original Message-- From: Ellen Fawl To: rescuealliancew...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Scary FELV test results! Sent: Nov 22, 2011 11:16 PM I need to share this so it can get to the FELV Lists and whomever is following this testing debacle. We took in 5 Persians last week. We had them combo tested
Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results!
Wow - interesting! Thanks for sharing. That tells me that you should never 100% trust an ELISA test of any sort. They are a good screening test and a majority of time reliable but confirmation always needs to be done via IFA or Western Blot. There's this other test that I read about but I can't remember the name of it. I guess any test, even IFA and Western Blot, can be done wrong but getting the same incorrect result from two different type of tests is less likely. Thanks again for telling me what happened with you since I've got a FeLV kitten that I'm waiting to retest. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: hideyo.yamam...@msn.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 14:59:51 -0700 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! Thisi is not reagarding Felk virus per se. But I wanted to share as it can be somewhat relevant. I have at least 6 or 7 kitties who was tested negative on SNAP test on FIV - but came back as positve on ELISA at LAB - but whenever this happened, SNAP test result ended up being the correct one, and ELISA at LAB was false positive - as they all ended up being negative via Western BLot - what I was told by the lab expert at Cornell University was that, ELISA test can be too sensitive and can cause false positive - I never had reverse results - just as FYI. From: molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 16:40:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! Here's how my vet friend explained things to me which will clarify a little about what Beth is saying about the IFA test. The IFA test looks to see if the virus is in the white blood cells. It's not a bone marrow test however, white blood cells are produced in the bone marrow, so if the virus is in the white blood cells then it's because it's replicating in the bone marrow. If it's not replicating in the bone marrow the FeLV virus could still be in the bone marrow but dormant. You wouldn't know that without a bone marrow test because it's just sitting there not doing anything and not spreading or causing problems. So here's what the vet has told me about the all ways of testing: The first screening test is the ELISA test. The ELISA test can be performed two ways. It can be done using a snap test kit in the vet's office or the blood sample can be sent to a lab where they do a Well test. The well test is also an ELISA test that looks for small fragments of the virus in the bloodstream but just done a different way and uses a much larger blood sample. The ELISA test that is done with a snap test kit in the vet's office is also called a combo test because it looks for FIV also. Then there is the 3 way snap test kit which looks for FIV, FeLV and heartworms. I think the ELISA test that is done in a well by sending the blood to a lab just looks for FeLV, not the other two. I'm not positive though. So, the ELISA test looks to see if there are small fragments of the virus in the blood stream. Part of the virus could be in the bloodstream but not in the white blood cells. It gets into the oral cavities and bloodstream before it goes into the bone marrow. When it gets into the bone marrow it could start replicating and then it gets into the white blood cells. The IFA test looks to see if the virus is in the white blood cells. So from my understanding, the virus has to progress from the bloodstream into the bone marrow and replicate like Beth is saying to get into the white blood cells. Usually once it's starts replicating in the bone marrow and getting into the white blood cells the cat will not be able to fight off the virus. FYI - my vet has also said that the 3 way snap test kits don't seem to be as reliable as the combo snap test kit. So that's a very simple and basic way of explaining the different ways of testing and what they look at to determine what stage the virus is in as it spreads throughout the body. That's my understanding and I hope it's correct. Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 08:12:39 -0800 From: create_me_...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! The IFA tests weather the virus is replicating in the bone marrow. You can have a positive SNAP a negative IFA. This does NOT mean the cat is negative. It just means the virus is not replicating in the bone marrow. Any test can be done wrong labs can mix up donors with specimins. It happens with humans, it can certainly happen in our pets. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, December 7
Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results!
That's the most easy to understand explanation I've heard yet :) Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: Here's how my vet friend explained things to me which will clarify a little about what Beth is saying about the IFA test. The IFA test looks to see if the virus is in the white blood cells. It's not a bone marrow test however, white blood cells are produced in the bone marrow, so if the virus is in the white blood cells then it's because it's replicating in the bone marrow. If it's not replicating in the bone marrow the FeLV virus could still be in the bone marrow but dormant. You wouldn't know that without a bone marrow test because it's just sitting there not doing anything and not spreading or causing problems. So here's what the vet has told me about the all ways of testing: The first screening test is the ELISA test. The ELISA test can be performed two ways. It can be done using a snap test kit in the vet's office or the blood sample can be sent to a lab where they do a Well test. The well test is also an ELISA test that looks for small fragments of the virus in the bloodstream but just done a different way and uses a much larger blood sample. The ELISA test that is done with a snap test kit in the vet's office is also called a combo test because it looks for FIV also. Then there is the 3 way snap test kit which looks for FIV, FeLV and heartworms. I think the ELISA test that is done in a well by sending the blood to a lab just looks for FeLV, not the other two. I'm not positive though. So, the ELISA test looks to see if there are small fragments of the virus in the blood stream. Part of the virus could be in the bloodstream but not in the white blood cells. It gets into the oral cavities and bloodstream before it goes into the bone marrow. When it gets into the bone marrow it could start replicating and then it gets into the white blood cells. The IFA test looks to see if the virus is in the white blood cells. So from my understanding, the virus has to progress from the bloodstream into the bone marrow and replicate like Beth is saying to get into the white blood cells. Usually once it's starts replicating in the bone marrow and getting into the white blood cells the cat will not be able to fight off the virus. FYI - my vet has also said that the 3 way snap test kits don't seem to be as reliable as the combo snap test kit. So that's a very simple and basic way of explaining the different ways of testing and what they look at to determine what stage the virus is in as it spreads throughout the body. That's my understanding and I hope it's correct. Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 08:12:39 -0800 From: create_me_...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! The IFA tests weather the virus is replicating in the bone marrow. You can have a positive SNAP a negative IFA. This does NOT mean the cat is negative. It just means the virus is not replicating in the bone marrow. Any test can be done wrong labs can mix up donors with specimins. It happens with humans, it can certainly happen in our pets. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2011 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! The IFA is not testing the bone marrow, thoughthat would be yet another test. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:57 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! It is possible the SNAP tests were positive an IFA was negative because the virus had not progressed to the bone marrow. I also wonder if the SNAP tests that were positive were done on the new 3way tests. Our shelter stopped using them because they were not dependable. Kat Parker korruptaki...@gmail.com wrote: *Very scary.. see below..* --Original Message-- From: Ellen Fawl To: rescuealliancew...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Scary FELV test results! Sent: Nov 22, 2011 11:16 PM I need to share this so it can get to the FELV Lists and whomever is following this testing debacle. We took in 5 Persians last week. We had them combo tested with the standard Snap test. All five tested positive. We had blood work done on one cat and it came back negative. We assumed the tests were done wrong so they redid them two days ago. All four remaining cats tested positive AGAIN. We had blood work taken on all four, sent it in, and all four came back negative. This is really scary stuff. Cats are killed all the time because they test positive. Had we heard about these cats being in a shelter testing positive it's not likely we could have taken them in. The vet office in Santa Cruz is going to follow up with the company, but if there is anyone else
Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results!
m From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 17:13:02 -0600 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! Kat, Ellen should have waited longer than two days to have them tested again. Waiting 90 days to retest is usually what is suggested to be more accurate. I hope they really are all negative :0) Lynda - Original Message - From: Kat Parker To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 4:14 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! Very scary.. see below.. --Original Message-- From: Ellen Fawl To: rescuealliancew...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Scary FELV test results! Sent: Nov 22, 2011 11:16 PM I need to share this so it can get to the FELV Lists and whomever is following this testing debacle. We took in 5 Persians last week. We had them combo tested with the standard Snap test. All five tested positive. We had blood work done on one cat and it came back negative. We assumed the tests were done wrong so they redid them two days ago. All four remaining cats tested positive AGAIN. We had blood work taken on all four, sent it in, and all four came back negative. This is really scary stuff. Cats are killed all the time because they test positive. Had we heard about these cats being in a shelter testing positive it's not likely we could have taken them in. The vet office in Santa Cruz is going to follow up with the company, but if there is anyone else out there tracking this stuff, I want to get the information to them. Ellen Love and Katnip, ~Kat~ =^,,^= I'm Kat Parker. I park cats. Keep your kitties INSIDE, 24/7, 'cause an inside cat is a SAFE HAPPY cat! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results!
Maureen, My vet says the same thing. You explained it very well for a disease that is so darn confusing. Kudos to you for explaining it without it being difficult to understand. I bet this helps all the people that are new to this forum. Thanks! L - Original Message - From: Maureen Olvey To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! Here's how my vet friend explained things to me which will clarify a little about what Beth is saying about the IFA test. The IFA test looks to see if the virus is in the white blood cells. It's not a bone marrow test however, white blood cells are produced in the bone marrow, so if the virus is in the white blood cells then it's because it's replicating in the bone marrow. If it's not replicating in the bone marrow the FeLV virus could still be in the bone marrow but dormant. You wouldn't know that without a bone marrow test because it's just sitting there not doing anything and not spreading or causing problems. So here's what the vet has told me about the all ways of testing: The first screening test is the ELISA test. The ELISA test can be performed two ways. It can be done using a snap test kit in the vet's office or the blood sample can be sent to a lab where they do a Well test. The well test is also an ELISA test that looks for small fragments of the virus in the bloodstream but just done a different way and uses a much larger blood sample. The ELISA test that is done with a snap test kit in the vet's office is also called a combo test because it looks for FIV also. Then there is the 3 way snap test kit which looks for FIV, FeLV and heartworms. I think the ELISA test that is done in a well by sending the blood to a lab just looks for FeLV, not the other two. I'm not positive though. So, the ELISA test looks to see if there are small fragments of the virus in the blood stream. Part of the virus could be in the bloodstream but not in the white blood cells. It gets into the oral cavities and bloodstream before it goes into the bone marrow. When it gets into the bone marrow it could start replicating and then it gets into the white blood cells. The IFA test looks to see if the virus is in the white blood cells. So from my understanding, the virus has to progress from the bloodstream into the bone marrow and replicate like Beth is saying to get into the white blood cells. Usually once it's starts replicating in the bone marrow and getting into the white blood cells the cat will not be able to fight off the virus. FYI - my vet has also said that the 3 way snap test kits don't seem to be as reliable as the combo snap test kit. So that's a very simple and basic way of explaining the different ways of testing and what they look at to determine what stage the virus is in as it spreads throughout the body. That's my understanding and I hope it's correct. -- Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 08:12:39 -0800 From: create_me_...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! The IFA tests weather the virus is replicating in the bone marrow. You can have a positive SNAP a negative IFA. This does NOT mean the cat is negative. It just means the virus is not replicating in the bone marrow. Any test can be done wrong labs can mix up donors with specimins. It happens with humans, it can certainly happen in our pets. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org -- From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2011 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! The IFA is not testing the bone marrow, thoughthat would be yet another test. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:57 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! It is possible the SNAP tests were positive an IFA was negative because the virus had not progressed to the bone marrow. I also wonder if the SNAP tests that were positive were done on the new 3way tests. Our shelter stopped using them because they were not dependable. Kat Parker korruptaki...@gmail.com wrote: *Very scary.. see below..* --Original Message-- From: Ellen Fawl To: rescuealliancew...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Scary FELV test results! Sent: Nov 22, 2011 11:16 PM I need to share this so it can get to the FELV Lists and whomever is following this testing debacle. We took in 5 Persians last week. We had them combo tested with the standard Snap test
Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results!
That's about as deep as my medical knowledge goes too. My poor vet had a time explaining it to me. I didn't know white blood cells are made in the bone marrow. I didn't even realize something could be in your bloodstream but not in your white blood cells. As much as I get annoyed with vets and doctors they do have to go through a lot of training to learn all this stuff. sent from my ATT Smartphone by HTC - Reply message - From: Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com Date: Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:57 pm Subject: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org That's the most easy to understand explanation I've heard yet :) Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: Here's how my vet friend explained things to me which will clarify a little about what Beth is saying about the IFA test. The IFA test looks to see if the virus is in the white blood cells. It's not a bone marrow test however, white blood cells are produced in the bone marrow, so if the virus is in the white blood cells then it's because it's replicating in the bone marrow. If it's not replicating in the bone marrow the FeLV virus could still be in the bone marrow but dormant. You wouldn't know that without a bone marrow test because it's just sitting there not doing anything and not spreading or causing problems. So here's what the vet has told me about the all ways of testing: The first screening test is the ELISA test. The ELISA test can be performed two ways. It can be done using a snap test kit in the vet's office or the blood sample can be sent to a lab where they do a Well test. The well test is also an ELISA test that looks for small fragments of the virus in the bloodstream but just done a different way and uses a much larger blood sample. The ELISA test that is done with a snap test kit in the vet's office is also called a combo test because it looks for FIV also. Then there is the 3 way snap test kit which looks for FIV, FeLV and heartworms. I think the ELISA test that is done in a well by sending the blood to a lab just looks for FeLV, not the other two. I'm not positive though. So, the ELISA test looks to see if there are small fragments of the virus in the blood stream. Part of the virus could be in the bloodstream but not in the white blood cells. It gets into the oral cavities and bloodstream before it goes into the bone marrow. When it gets into the bone marrow it could start replicating and then it gets into the white blood cells. The IFA test looks to see if the virus is in the white blood cells. So from my understanding, the virus has to progress from the bloodstream into the bone marrow and replicate like Beth is saying to get into the white blood cells. Usually once it's starts replicating in the bone marrow and getting into the white blood cells the cat will not be able to fight off the virus. FYI - my vet has also said that the 3 way snap test kits don't seem to be as reliable as the combo snap test kit. So that's a very simple and basic way of explaining the different ways of testing and what they look at to determine what stage the virus is in as it spreads throughout the body. That's my understanding and I hope it's correct. Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 08:12:39 -0800 From: create_me_...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! The IFA tests weather the virus is replicating in the bone marrow. You can have a positive SNAP a negative IFA. This does NOT mean the cat is negative. It just means the virus is not replicating in the bone marrow. Any test can be done wrong labs can mix up donors with specimins. It happens with humans, it can certainly happen in our pets. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2011 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! The IFA is not testing the bone marrow, thoughthat would be yet another test. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:57 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! It is possible the SNAP tests were positive an IFA was negative because the virus had not progressed to the bone marrow. I also wonder if the SNAP tests that were positive were done on the new 3way tests. Our shelter stopped using them because they were not dependable. Kat Parker korruptaki...@gmail.com wrote: *Very scary.. see below..* --Original Message-- From: Ellen Fawl ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results!
When she says bloodwork I wonder what she means. You can take blood and send it to a lab where they perform the same type of ELISA test as done in the vet's office, but they do it differently at the lab (my vet called it a well test). They have to take a bigger blood sample for that. It's still an ELISA test, which looks for small fragments of the virus in the bloodstream, but a little more reliable than doing it with the snap test kit. Then there's the IFA test which is a totally different test and it looks for the virus in the white blood cells/bone marrow. If by bloodwork she means the IFA test then it's very possible that it's negative and the combo test is positive and that doesn't mean the combo test is wrong. The combo test could be right but the virus just hasn't progressed into the bone marrow. So when she says bloodwork it's hard to know for sure whether that means the combo test was right or wrong. I'd like to know because if she's talking about two ELISA tests (one done in the vet's office with a snap test kit and one sent to the lab) and they keep coming up differently then there's definitely a problem with the snap test kits. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: korruptaki...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 14:14:02 -0800 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! Very scary.. see below.. --Original Message-- From: Ellen Fawl To: rescuealliancew...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Scary FELV test results! Sent: Nov 22, 2011 11:16 PM I need to share this so it can get to the FELV Lists and whomever is following this testing debacle. We took in 5 Persians last week. We had them combo tested with the standard Snap test. All five tested positive. We had blood work done on one cat and it came back negative. We assumed the tests were done wrong so they redid them two days ago. All four remaining cats tested positive AGAIN. We had blood work taken on all four, sent it in, and all four came back negative. This is really scary stuff. Cats are killed all the time because they test positive. Had we heard about these cats being in a shelter testing positive it's not likely we could have taken them in. The vet office in Santa Cruz is going to follow up with the company, but if there is anyone else out there tracking this stuff, I want to get the information to them. Ellen Love and Katnip, ~Kat~ =^,,^= I'm Kat Parker. I park cats. Keep your kitties INSIDE, 24/7, 'cause an inside cat is a SAFE HAPPY cat! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results!
Kat, Ellen should have waited longer than two days to have them tested again. Waiting 90 days to retest is usually what is suggested to be more accurate. I hope they really are all negative :0) Lynda - Original Message - From: Kat Parker To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 4:14 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! Very scary.. see below.. --Original Message-- From: Ellen Fawl To: rescuealliancew...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Scary FELV test results! Sent: Nov 22, 2011 11:16 PM I need to share this so it can get to the FELV Lists and whomever is following this testing debacle. We took in 5 Persians last week. We had them combo tested with the standard Snap test. All five tested positive. We had blood work done on one cat and it came back negative. We assumed the tests were done wrong so they redid them two days ago. All four remaining cats tested positive AGAIN. We had blood work taken on all four, sent it in, and all four came back negative. This is really scary stuff. Cats are killed all the time because they test positive. Had we heard about these cats being in a shelter testing positive it's not likely we could have taken them in. The vet office in Santa Cruz is going to follow up with the company, but if there is anyone else out there tracking this stuff, I want to get the information to them. Ellen Love and Katnip, ~Kat~ =^,,^= I'm Kat Parker. I park cats. Keep your kitties INSIDE, 24/7, 'cause an inside cat is a SAFE HAPPY cat! -- ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results!
Were the second tests also SNAP? Or the IFA? True, it is scary how many cats tests false positives! I had two such cats (one had the Snap AND IFA - positive both times.) One cat had only the Snap.then I did the IFA for both, and BOTH were negative. I purposely found mine a buddy from another state. Can you imagine how I would have felt if the IFA had been negative for only one of them? I would have exposed the healthy one to a sick one, thinking that both were negative. horrors! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kat Parker Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 5:14 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results! Very scary.. see below.. --Original Message-- From: Ellen Fawl To: rescuealliancew...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Scary FELV test results! Sent: Nov 22, 2011 11:16 PM I need to share this so it can get to the FELV Lists and whomever is following this testing debacle. We took in 5 Persians last week. We had them combo tested with the standard Snap test. All five tested positive. We had blood work done on one cat and it came back negative. We assumed the tests were done wrong so they redid them two days ago. All four remaining cats tested positive AGAIN. We had blood work taken on all four, sent it in, and all four came back negative. This is really scary stuff. Cats are killed all the time because they test positive. Had we heard about these cats being in a shelter testing positive it's not likely we could have taken them in. The vet office in Santa Cruz is going to follow up with the company, but if there is anyone else out there tracking this stuff, I want to get the information to them. Ellen Love and Katnip, ~Kat~ =^,,^= I'm Kat Parker. I park cats. Keep your kitties INSIDE, 24/7, 'cause an inside cat is a SAFE HAPPY cat! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Very Scary Testing results!
It is possible the SNAP tests were positive an IFA was negative because the virus had not progressed to the bone marrow. I also wonder if the SNAP tests that were positive were done on the new 3way tests. Our shelter stopped using them because they were not dependable. Kat Parker korruptaki...@gmail.com wrote: *Very scary.. see below..* --Original Message-- From: Ellen Fawl To: rescuealliancew...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Scary FELV test results! Sent: Nov 22, 2011 11:16 PM I need to share this so it can get to the FELV Lists and whomever is following this testing debacle. We took in 5 Persians last week. We had them combo tested with the standard Snap test. All five tested positive. We had blood work done on one cat and it came back negative. We assumed the tests were done wrong so they redid them two days ago. All four remaining cats tested positive AGAIN. We had blood work taken on all four, sent it in, and all four came back negative. This is really scary stuff. Cats are killed all the time because they test positive. Had we heard about these cats being in a shelter testing positive it's not likely we could have taken them in. The vet office in Santa Cruz is going to follow up with the company, but if there is anyone else out there tracking this stuff, I want to get the information to them. Ellen * Love and Katnip, ~Kat~ =^,,^= **I'm Kat Parker. I park cats.** **Keep your kitties INSIDE, 24/7, 'cause an inside cat is a SAFE HAPPY cat!* ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
