Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update
i just checked the link and it worked, so you might want to try again--site could have been down. but you CAN search from the main page. the saddest part is that the literature IS out there, so it's not that the veterinary profession doesn't have access to it; it seems that too many just go with the easy answer, tho it's been many years since, 'kill all positives," was ever the professional response. the good thing is that, because of people who wouldn't take, "kill," as an answer, research has stepped up again in the past few years. but getting it completed, evaluated, reviewed and published is just the first battle. if you can't find the file, i can send it to you--it's just too big to attach to the list! mc MC -- Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 2:47 AM, paola cresti wrote: > Hi MC, > sorry finally catching up now with my mail. > thank you so much for the input, it seems like we need to make our own way on > this issue and forge ahead without data. Hopefully the Veterinary associations > will follow suit. > > I tried clicking on the link you gave me but it couldn't find it. I'll try > making searches for "AAFP-Retrovirus-Guidelines" > > Thank you again > > Paola > > > > > ____ > From: MaryChristine > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 11:25:03 AM > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update > > in adult healthy cats, the stats are that 70% can be adequately exposed > until to test positive, and either never do so, or process the virus out of > their system. they also know that some percentage of that 30% who do remain > viremic, never become symptomatic, and are not contagious, even tho they > continue to test positive. > > vets consistently forget, and we must consistently remind them, that the > SNAP (and IFA, actually) test not for antibodies/infection, but for > antigens/exposure--so a confirmatory test is literally vital. > > sadly, there is just not enough research to say what the percentages are in > kittens--back in 2002, it was presumed that ALL kittens of positive moms > (many of whom probably weren't positive to start with) were be definition > positive themselves, and all were killed. when mom wasn't there to test, if > one kitten in a litter tested positive, or the litter's blood was mixed > (heaven forfend!) and was positive (again, remember, to ANTIGENS only), all > were most likely killed. > > asymptomatic positive adults were most likely to be given a chance, while > kittens were far less lucky. hence no research pool. > > in sanctuary settings, anecdotally it seemed that asymptomatic > kittens--especially of asymptomatic moms--who made it past six or seven > months of age (when mom's antibodies wore off? don't know, but kept > happening), and again past about 18-22 months (absolutely NO ideas on why > that's an important mark) would survive--these were UNretested cats, > remember. > > kittens of sickly moms, or kittens who were themselves sickly -- not > necessarily REALLY sick, but just not as thrifty as others their > age/developmental stage--tended to do less well. > > with retesting recognized as a necessity, with an IFA done at an interval > long enough to let the virus work itself out of kitty's system, the majority > of kittens tested negative. still do. > > just no real data to 'prove' it. > > paolo, have you seen this? *http://tinyurl.com/AAFP-Retrovirus-Guidelines* > * > * > MC > -- > Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors! > Maybe That'll Make The Difference > > MaryChristine > Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) > Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) > ___ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > ___ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update
Hi MC, sorry finally catching up now with my mail. thank you so much for the input, it seems like we need to make our own way on this issue and forge ahead without data. Hopefully the Veterinary associations will follow suit. I tried clicking on the link you gave me but it couldn't find it. I'll try making searches for "AAFP-Retrovirus-Guidelines" Thank you again Paola From: MaryChristine To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 11:25:03 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update in adult healthy cats, the stats are that 70% can be adequately exposed until to test positive, and either never do so, or process the virus out of their system. they also know that some percentage of that 30% who do remain viremic, never become symptomatic, and are not contagious, even tho they continue to test positive. vets consistently forget, and we must consistently remind them, that the SNAP (and IFA, actually) test not for antibodies/infection, but for antigens/exposure--so a confirmatory test is literally vital. sadly, there is just not enough research to say what the percentages are in kittens--back in 2002, it was presumed that ALL kittens of positive moms (many of whom probably weren't positive to start with) were be definition positive themselves, and all were killed. when mom wasn't there to test, if one kitten in a litter tested positive, or the litter's blood was mixed (heaven forfend!) and was positive (again, remember, to ANTIGENS only), all were most likely killed. asymptomatic positive adults were most likely to be given a chance, while kittens were far less lucky. hence no research pool. in sanctuary settings, anecdotally it seemed that asymptomatic kittens--especially of asymptomatic moms--who made it past six or seven months of age (when mom's antibodies wore off? don't know, but kept happening), and again past about 18-22 months (absolutely NO ideas on why that's an important mark) would survive--these were UNretested cats, remember. kittens of sickly moms, or kittens who were themselves sickly -- not necessarily REALLY sick, but just not as thrifty as others their age/developmental stage--tended to do less well. with retesting recognized as a necessity, with an IFA done at an interval long enough to let the virus work itself out of kitty's system, the majority of kittens tested negative. still do. just no real data to 'prove' it. paolo, have you seen this? *http://tinyurl.com/AAFP-Retrovirus-Guidelines* * * MC -- Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update
thanks for the replies and thanks Susan for asking a question one the one below from MC as I hadn't gotten it. So far I've only gotten this one (through Susan) and the one from Fernanda about little Tommy - so awesome to hear he's negative and doing well kudos to you guys for insisting on keeping him!!! Susan if you get a reply from MC can you forward it to me again? I need to contact the administrator somehow and see if we can figure out why I keep missing posts :-( Karen I got yours and it's so heartbreaking about your little Lovey kitten, you at least gave him a peaceful passing, and some warmth in the end Paola From: "Sander, Sue" To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 11:46:10 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update Can you please state the first paragraph in another way. I'm don't know what you mean by "the stats are that 70% can be adequately exposed until to test positive, and either never do so, or process the virus out of their system." This is very important to me because I have a very healthy cat who tested POSITIVE one year ago. He was a stray. This is the second year I'm taking him to have his teeth cleaned because the vet said she can see signs of FELV+ by his teeth (not her exact words). So what percentage of the 70% and the 30% are the cats who become ill? I began giving my cat the MEGA C a little over a year ago. Thanks very much. Susan -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaryChristine Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 2:25 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update in adult healthy cats, the stats are that 70% can be adequately exposed until to test positive, and either never do so, or process the virus out of their system. they also know that some percentage of that 30% who do remain viremic, never become symptomatic, and are not contagious, even tho they continue to test positive. vets consistently forget, and we must consistently remind them, that the SNAP (and IFA, actually) test not for antibodies/infection, but for antigens/exposure--so a confirmatory test is literally vital. sadly, there is just not enough research to say what the percentages are in kittens--back in 2002, it was presumed that ALL kittens of positive moms (many of whom probably weren't positive to start with) were be definition positive themselves, and all were killed. when mom wasn't there to test, if one kitten in a litter tested positive, or the litter's blood was mixed (heaven forfend!) and was positive (again, remember, to ANTIGENS only), all were most likely killed. asymptomatic positive adults were most likely to be given a chance, while kittens were far less lucky. hence no research pool. in sanctuary settings, anecdotally it seemed that asymptomatic kittens--especially of asymptomatic moms--who made it past six or seven months of age (when mom's antibodies wore off? don't know, but kept happening), and again past about 18-22 months (absolutely NO ideas on why that's an important mark) would survive--these were UNretested cats, remember. kittens of sickly moms, or kittens who were themselves sickly -- not necessarily REALLY sick, but just not as thrifty as others their age/developmental stage--tended to do less well. with retesting recognized as a necessity, with an IFA done at an interval long enough to let the virus work itself out of kitty's system, the majority of kittens tested negative. still do. just no real data to 'prove' it. paolo, have you seen this? *http://tinyurl.com/AAFP-Retrovirus-Guidelines* * * MC -- Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update
*http://tinyurl.com/Merck-FeLV* * * *the info on regressive infection is in the aafp guidelines to managing feline retroviruses, which i've posted many times--check the archives. * * * * * MC -- Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Sander, Sue wrote: > Can you please state the first paragraph in another way. I'm don't know > what you mean by "the stats are that 70% can be adequately exposed until > to test positive, and either never do so, or process the virus out of > their system." This is very important to me because I have a very > healthy cat who tested POSITIVE one year ago. He was a stray. This is > the second year I'm taking him to have his teeth cleaned because the vet > said she can see signs of FELV+ by his teeth (not her exact words). > > So what percentage of the 70% and the 30% are the cats who become ill? > I began giving my cat the MEGA C a little over a year ago. > > Thanks very much. > > Susan > > -Original Message- > From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org > [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaryChristine > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 2:25 PM > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update > > in adult healthy cats, the stats are that 70% can be adequately exposed > until to test positive, and either never do so, or process the virus out > of > their system. they also know that some percentage of that 30% who do > remain > viremic, never become symptomatic, and are not contagious, even tho they > continue to test positive. > > vets consistently forget, and we must consistently remind them, that the > SNAP (and IFA, actually) test not for antibodies/infection, but for > antigens/exposure--so a confirmatory test is literally vital. > > sadly, there is just not enough research to say what the percentages are > in > kittens--back in 2002, it was presumed that ALL kittens of positive moms > (many of whom probably weren't positive to start with) were be > definition > positive themselves, and all were killed. when mom wasn't there to test, > if > one kitten in a litter tested positive, or the litter's blood was mixed > (heaven forfend!) and was positive (again, remember, to ANTIGENS only), > all > were most likely killed. > > asymptomatic positive adults were most likely to be given a chance, > while > kittens were far less lucky. hence no research pool. > > in sanctuary settings, anecdotally it seemed that asymptomatic > kittens--especially of asymptomatic moms--who made it past six or seven > months of age (when mom's antibodies wore off? don't know, but kept > happening), and again past about 18-22 months (absolutely NO ideas on > why > that's an important mark) would survive--these were UNretested cats, > remember. > > kittens of sickly moms, or kittens who were themselves sickly -- not > necessarily REALLY sick, but just not as thrifty as others their > age/developmental stage--tended to do less well. > > with retesting recognized as a necessity, with an IFA done at an > interval > long enough to let the virus work itself out of kitty's system, the > majority > of kittens tested negative. still do. > > just no real data to 'prove' it. > > paolo, have you seen this? > *http://tinyurl.com/AAFP-Retrovirus-Guidelines* > * > * > MC > -- > Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors! > Maybe That'll Make The Difference > > MaryChristine > Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue > (www.purebredcats.org) > Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) > ___ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > ___ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update
Can you please state the first paragraph in another way. I'm don't know what you mean by "the stats are that 70% can be adequately exposed until to test positive, and either never do so, or process the virus out of their system." This is very important to me because I have a very healthy cat who tested POSITIVE one year ago. He was a stray. This is the second year I'm taking him to have his teeth cleaned because the vet said she can see signs of FELV+ by his teeth (not her exact words). So what percentage of the 70% and the 30% are the cats who become ill? I began giving my cat the MEGA C a little over a year ago. Thanks very much. Susan -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaryChristine Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 2:25 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update in adult healthy cats, the stats are that 70% can be adequately exposed until to test positive, and either never do so, or process the virus out of their system. they also know that some percentage of that 30% who do remain viremic, never become symptomatic, and are not contagious, even tho they continue to test positive. vets consistently forget, and we must consistently remind them, that the SNAP (and IFA, actually) test not for antibodies/infection, but for antigens/exposure--so a confirmatory test is literally vital. sadly, there is just not enough research to say what the percentages are in kittens--back in 2002, it was presumed that ALL kittens of positive moms (many of whom probably weren't positive to start with) were be definition positive themselves, and all were killed. when mom wasn't there to test, if one kitten in a litter tested positive, or the litter's blood was mixed (heaven forfend!) and was positive (again, remember, to ANTIGENS only), all were most likely killed. asymptomatic positive adults were most likely to be given a chance, while kittens were far less lucky. hence no research pool. in sanctuary settings, anecdotally it seemed that asymptomatic kittens--especially of asymptomatic moms--who made it past six or seven months of age (when mom's antibodies wore off? don't know, but kept happening), and again past about 18-22 months (absolutely NO ideas on why that's an important mark) would survive--these were UNretested cats, remember. kittens of sickly moms, or kittens who were themselves sickly -- not necessarily REALLY sick, but just not as thrifty as others their age/developmental stage--tended to do less well. with retesting recognized as a necessity, with an IFA done at an interval long enough to let the virus work itself out of kitty's system, the majority of kittens tested negative. still do. just no real data to 'prove' it. paolo, have you seen this? *http://tinyurl.com/AAFP-Retrovirus-Guidelines* * * MC -- Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update
in adult healthy cats, the stats are that 70% can be adequately exposed until to test positive, and either never do so, or process the virus out of their system. they also know that some percentage of that 30% who do remain viremic, never become symptomatic, and are not contagious, even tho they continue to test positive. vets consistently forget, and we must consistently remind them, that the SNAP (and IFA, actually) test not for antibodies/infection, but for antigens/exposure--so a confirmatory test is literally vital. sadly, there is just not enough research to say what the percentages are in kittens--back in 2002, it was presumed that ALL kittens of positive moms (many of whom probably weren't positive to start with) were be definition positive themselves, and all were killed. when mom wasn't there to test, if one kitten in a litter tested positive, or the litter's blood was mixed (heaven forfend!) and was positive (again, remember, to ANTIGENS only), all were most likely killed. asymptomatic positive adults were most likely to be given a chance, while kittens were far less lucky. hence no research pool. in sanctuary settings, anecdotally it seemed that asymptomatic kittens--especially of asymptomatic moms--who made it past six or seven months of age (when mom's antibodies wore off? don't know, but kept happening), and again past about 18-22 months (absolutely NO ideas on why that's an important mark) would survive--these were UNretested cats, remember. kittens of sickly moms, or kittens who were themselves sickly -- not necessarily REALLY sick, but just not as thrifty as others their age/developmental stage--tended to do less well. with retesting recognized as a necessity, with an IFA done at an interval long enough to let the virus work itself out of kitty's system, the majority of kittens tested negative. still do. just no real data to 'prove' it. paolo, have you seen this? *http://tinyurl.com/AAFP-Retrovirus-Guidelines* * * MC -- Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update
I have been meaning to send out this update, but now it's in direct response to Paola's question. I wrote in a few weeks ago to get some advise on an FeLV positive kitten I had found in the middle of the street. Even knowing that he may not be around for long (the vet wanted to put him to sleep the day I found him) my boyfriend and I quickly fell in love with him and named him Tommy. After several hours of internet research, we decided to start giving him Mega C in hopes that it would boost his immune system enough to help him fight off the virus; at the very least, it couldn't hurt. After several weeks, we took Tommy to a different vet to be re-tested. This vet recommended sending the blood work to the lab, where they could do confirmatory tests if needed. We were ecstatic when she called to tell us that he is now testing negative; even she sounded surprised. The vet recommended that we get him tested again in a few weeks, just to make sure. I'm not sure if the Mega C made a difference or not, but we will continue giving it to him. The Mega C was not that expensive and it comes in a huge container that should last us quite a while. Even though we are still cautious, we are so happy that Tommy may have beaten this. When I found him, Tommy was tiny and starving to death - his eyes were not dilating properly, he couldn't walk without falling, he was failing to thrive. However, with regular meals, love and attention, he has grown to be a healthy, and quite mischievous, kitten. In the 6 weeks that he has been with us, he went from a pound and a half, to a full four pounds! Thank you for all the information you gave so freely. I know that many more kittens will benefit from your collective knowledge and care. Fernanda > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 22:38:25 -0700 > From: iend...@yahoo.com > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Subject: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens > > Hi all, > I volunteer at a kitten rescue organization, and talking about all the > loving, > caring people on this listserv the people at the organization were wondering > for > those who have kittens that were tested positive, how often and how many > (average if you've rescued many) turn out to be negative when/if re-tested > later > on? > > It would be especially good to know in case we rescue kittens that test > positive. Knowing of actual cases and occasions of kittens that turned out to > be > negative when tested later on would help a lot in dealing with possible > cases, > and trying to get them adopted. > > thank you so much in advance, and I hope this gets through, several of my > posts/replies to posts haven't been showing up (on my end anyway) > > Best > > Paola > ___ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
