Re: [Felvtalk] rear leg weakness- Revolution used? and update
Forgive me, but I'm not sure of Wolfie's history. With respect to hypercalcemia there are multiple causes.If you want to treat it you need to identify the underlying cause. This is often challenging and the treatment (at least the immediate way to decrease the Ca levels) is with diet, fluids and diuretics. You can try doing this, but if you don't identify the underlyling cause it may return to elevated levels. The question concerning his medical condition and whether or not to proceed is a tough one. Why does he have hind leg weakness. This can sometimes be a vascular issue (basically a blood clot in one of the large vessels) or felv involving the central nervous system, or an autoimmune process, etc. Are his kidneys okay (tested for with BUN and Creat.) and liver (AST, ALT, albumin, Bilirubin) and bone marrow (anemic? high or low WBC, presence of lymphoma?). Is his appetitie okay? These things would influence my personal decision of proceeding or not. It seems likely that the elevated Calcium is secondary to some other process, if that process cannot be treated, I would probably not proceed with trying to find out why the calcium is elevated and simply provide IV fluids and a change of diet to keep him comfortable while he is here. If the underlying problem can be treated, I would treat that first and change diet and possibly give IV fluids, then watch the calcium and see if it drops. This is a tough decision at times. Iwish you the best of luck and may God bless. Jenny On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote: I have not used Revolution on Wolfie. Wolfie is still acting himself, is eating fine but he is definitely getting weaker in the back legs. It's really hard to see because I don't think things are going to get better. He has food and litter on the main floor but is still choosing to do stairs (making me a nervous wreck). He's starting to have a tough time with the kitchen floor (linoleum) so I'm putting carpets down to help. Wish I could do something more for him but I always feel that way when my leuk positives start going downhill. I hate this disease. Looking for opinions here. Wolfie's calcium was 11.6 when the blood work was done. Normal is 8.2-11.5. The vet at Cornell wants me to draw another sample to check his active or ionized calcium to see if his Calcium is actually high. Would you put your cat through this if your gut is that he doesn't have long? I asked what we would do if it's high. She said we'd look at all causes and rule them out and if none of those applied, we'd alter his diet to try bringing it down. He's anemic and having trouble with his legs. Would you pursue something like this or let him be in peace? Amy --- On Sun, 6/27/10, Laurieskatz lauriesk...@mchsi.com wrote: From: Laurieskatz lauriesk...@mchsi.com Subject: [Felvtalk] rear leg weakness- Revolution used? To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: 'Carmen Conklin' cwshel...@wildblue.net Date: Sunday, June 27, 2010, 2:06 PM From: Carmen Conklin [mailto:cwshel...@wildblue.net] Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:57 PM To: Laurieskatz Subject: felvgroup Hi, I can't seem to be able to email into the felv group today-could you ask them a question regarding the Re: weakness in hind legs thing?? I want to know if they had used Revolution on any of the cats that had that weakness in hind legs problem... Thanks, Carmen ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] rear leg weakness- Revolution used? and update
No idea why he has hind leg weakness. I'll researched all the causes and none seem to apply other than the leukemia. He has had routine blood work every 6 months of his life and we have monitored him very closely as we do all our positive cats. No major problems other than some weight loss and IBD over the past couple years. I don't think I've ever taken one of my positive cats to the vet that some level hasn't been off. Historically when I've drawn more blood or done further testing, it always ends up being nothing. I spend lots of money and put the cats through lots of testing and then 6 months later, the value is normal again. I've just grown to step back and not flip out every time I see a low or high value for that reason. I have to say I still feel sick every time I see the HCT drop in one of them though. So that's my hesitation with taking 3 ml of blood from a non-regenerative anemic cat. He just had a full CBC/Chem which is not a small amount of blood and I'm afraid to draw so much blood again when I think his time with me is limited to begin with. The only thing I can come up with as a cause of the hind leg weakness is long term steroid use. I read that it's more common with injectable steroids so not sure if it even applies to pred. He's been on pred for almost a year. However, I have no doubt that it is the one thing that has kept him alive. Neither me or the specialist I'm seeing are even considering taking him off that as I have no doubt he will crash. We tried weaning him off it a year ago after treating him for hemobart and he started going downhill quickly. That said, his bone marrow is shot. He's been non-regenerative for over a year and making red blood cells from his spleen or elsewhere. We knew he couldn't do this forever so I'm not shocked at where we are, just sad. Since he's been anemic for a year and holding steady, I guess the weakness could be a result of the anemia as well. Yet he doesn't seem weak otherwise really. He sleeps a lot and yes it's obvious he doesn't keep up with the other cats but not so weak that it takes too much energy to walk in my opinion. His liver and kidney values are all normal. Appetite is normal. No signs of lymphoma after 2 ultrasounds, probably has IBD and is on EVO which seems to have helped keep that in check. His calcium is just over normal - 11.6 with normal being 8.2-11.5. I looked at blood work from all my other cats and they all run towards the high end, 10 or higher. So I'm weighing the risk worth the benefit of drawing another 3 ml of blood to see if he's really got a high calcium vs just waiting it out and if he's around in a month or so, rechecking it then. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome. Thank you everyone for all the suggestions. My gut tells me that he is close to the point of losing his battle with this disease. I always try to keep hope and remain optimistic but watching one cat after another be taken down by this disease, it's hard to keep the faith sometimes. Fingers crossed, Wolfie will pull through this and defy the odds as he has until now. Amy Why does he have hind leg weakness. This can sometimes be a vascular issue (basically a blood clot in one of the large vessels) or felv involving the central nervous system, or an autoimmune process, etc. Are his kidneys okay (tested for with BUN and Creat.) and liver (AST, ALT, albumin, Bilirubin) and bone marrow (anemic? high or low WBC, presence of lymphoma?). Is his appetitie okay? These things would influence my personal decision of proceeding or not. It seems likely that the elevated Calcium is secondary to some other process, if that process cannot be treated, I would probably not proceed with trying to find out why the calcium is elevated and simply provide IV fluids and a change of diet to keep him comfortable while he is here. If the underlying problem can be treated, I would treat that first and change diet and possibly give IV fluids, then watch the calcium and see if it drops. This is a tough decision at times. Iwish you the best of luck and may God bless. Jenny On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote: I have not used Revolution on Wolfie. Wolfie is still acting himself, is eating fine but he is definitely getting weaker in the back legs. It's really hard to see because I don't think things are going to get better. He has food and litter on the main floor but is still choosing to do stairs (making me a nervous wreck). He's starting to have a tough time with the kitchen floor (linoleum) so I'm putting carpets down to help. Wish I could do something more for him but I always feel that way when my leuk positives start going downhill. I hate this disease. Looking for opinions here. Wolfie's calcium was 11.6 when the blood work was done. Normal is 8.2-11.5. The vet at Cornell wants me
Re: [Felvtalk] rear leg weakness- Revolution used? and update
Amy, based on what you have written I wouldn't worry about the high Ca right now. What was his phos level? There is an issue when both Ca and Phos are high but again that wouldn't affect his hind legs. It could be the anemia. In the end we do what we can with the resources we have. He's lucky to have you loving him. Sharyl --- On Wed, 6/30/10, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] rear leg weakness- Revolution used? and update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 12:12 PM No idea why he has hind leg weakness. I'll researched all the causes and none seem to apply other than the leukemia. He has had routine blood work every 6 months of his life and we have monitored him very closely as we do all our positive cats. No major problems other than some weight loss and IBD over the past couple years. I don't think I've ever taken one of my positive cats to the vet that some level hasn't been off. Historically when I've drawn more blood or done further testing, it always ends up being nothing. I spend lots of money and put the cats through lots of testing and then 6 months later, the value is normal again. I've just grown to step back and not flip out every time I see a low or high value for that reason. I have to say I still feel sick every time I see the HCT drop in one of them though. So that's my hesitation with taking 3 ml of blood from a non-regenerative anemic cat. He just had a full CBC/Chem which is not a small amount of blood and I'm afraid to draw so much blood again when I think his time with me is limited to begin with. The only thing I can come up with as a cause of the hind leg weakness is long term steroid use. I read that it's more common with injectable steroids so not sure if it even applies to pred. He's been on pred for almost a year. However, I have no doubt that it is the one thing that has kept him alive. Neither me or the specialist I'm seeing are even considering taking him off that as I have no doubt he will crash. We tried weaning him off it a year ago after treating him for hemobart and he started going downhill quickly. That said, his bone marrow is shot. He's been non-regenerative for over a year and making red blood cells from his spleen or elsewhere. We knew he couldn't do this forever so I'm not shocked at where we are, just sad. Since he's been anemic for a year and holding steady, I guess the weakness could be a result of the anemia as well. Yet he doesn't seem weak otherwise really. He sleeps a lot and yes it's obvious he doesn't keep up with the other cats but not so weak that it takes too much energy to walk in my opinion. His liver and kidney values are all normal. Appetite is normal. No signs of lymphoma after 2 ultrasounds, probably has IBD and is on EVO which seems to have helped keep that in check. His calcium is just over normal - 11.6 with normal being 8.2-11.5. I looked at blood work from all my other cats and they all run towards the high end, 10 or higher. So I'm weighing the risk worth the benefit of drawing another 3 ml of blood to see if he's really got a high calcium vs just waiting it out and if he's around in a month or so, rechecking it then. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome. Thank you everyone for all the suggestions. My gut tells me that he is close to the point of losing his battle with this disease. I always try to keep hope and remain optimistic but watching one cat after another be taken down by this disease, it's hard to keep the faith sometimes. Fingers crossed, Wolfie will pull through this and defy the odds as he has until now. Amy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] rear leg weakness- Revolution used? and update
Amy, I have to agree with Sharyl. Taking everything into consideration I probably would not proceed with evaluating the levels. In human medicine we don't treat unless the value is at least 1.0 greater than the upper limit of norma. My understanding in fact is that steroids can help lower levels of ca. in some individuals. Felv cats are so hard because when they get sick you just end up chasing one symptom after another and we can't seem to cure the underlying cause. I think your fears are founded in the anemia and repeated blood draws. Wolfie is a lucky cat and I will keep him in my prayers. Jenny On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Sharyl cline...@yahoo.com wrote: Amy, based on what you have written I wouldn't worry about the high Ca right now. What was his phos level? There is an issue when both Ca and Phos are high but again that wouldn't affect his hind legs. It could be the anemia. In the end we do what we can with the resources we have. He's lucky to have you loving him. Sharyl --- On Wed, 6/30/10, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] rear leg weakness- Revolution used? and update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 12:12 PM No idea why he has hind leg weakness. I'll researched all the causes and none seem to apply other than the leukemia. He has had routine blood work every 6 months of his life and we have monitored him very closely as we do all our positive cats. No major problems other than some weight loss and IBD over the past couple years. I don't think I've ever taken one of my positive cats to the vet that some level hasn't been off. Historically when I've drawn more blood or done further testing, it always ends up being nothing. I spend lots of money and put the cats through lots of testing and then 6 months later, the value is normal again. I've just grown to step back and not flip out every time I see a low or high value for that reason. I have to say I still feel sick every time I see the HCT drop in one of them though. So that's my hesitation with taking 3 ml of blood from a non-regenerative anemic cat. He just had a full CBC/Chem which is not a small amount of blood and I'm afraid to draw so much blood again when I think his time with me is limited to begin with. The only thing I can come up with as a cause of the hind leg weakness is long term steroid use. I read that it's more common with injectable steroids so not sure if it even applies to pred. He's been on pred for almost a year. However, I have no doubt that it is the one thing that has kept him alive. Neither me or the specialist I'm seeing are even considering taking him off that as I have no doubt he will crash. We tried weaning him off it a year ago after treating him for hemobart and he started going downhill quickly. That said, his bone marrow is shot. He's been non-regenerative for over a year and making red blood cells from his spleen or elsewhere. We knew he couldn't do this forever so I'm not shocked at where we are, just sad. Since he's been anemic for a year and holding steady, I guess the weakness could be a result of the anemia as well. Yet he doesn't seem weak otherwise really. He sleeps a lot and yes it's obvious he doesn't keep up with the other cats but not so weak that it takes too much energy to walk in my opinion. His liver and kidney values are all normal. Appetite is normal. No signs of lymphoma after 2 ultrasounds, probably has IBD and is on EVO which seems to have helped keep that in check. His calcium is just over normal - 11.6 with normal being 8.2-11.5. I looked at blood work from all my other cats and they all run towards the high end, 10 or higher. So I'm weighing the risk worth the benefit of drawing another 3 ml of blood to see if he's really got a high calcium vs just waiting it out and if he's around in a month or so, rechecking it then. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome. Thank you everyone for all the suggestions. My gut tells me that he is close to the point of losing his battle with this disease. I always try to keep hope and remain optimistic but watching one cat after another be taken down by this disease, it's hard to keep the faith sometimes. Fingers crossed, Wolfie will pull through this and defy the odds as he has until now. Amy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] rear leg weakness- Revolution used? and update
I have not used Revolution on Wolfie. Wolfie is still acting himself, is eating fine but he is definitely getting weaker in the back legs. It's really hard to see because I don't think things are going to get better. He has food and litter on the main floor but is still choosing to do stairs (making me a nervous wreck). He's starting to have a tough time with the kitchen floor (linoleum) so I'm putting carpets down to help. Wish I could do something more for him but I always feel that way when my leuk positives start going downhill. I hate this disease. Looking for opinions here. Wolfie's calcium was 11.6 when the blood work was done. Normal is 8.2-11.5. The vet at Cornell wants me to draw another sample to check his active or ionized calcium to see if his Calcium is actually high. Would you put your cat through this if your gut is that he doesn't have long? I asked what we would do if it's high. She said we'd look at all causes and rule them out and if none of those applied, we'd alter his diet to try bringing it down. He's anemic and having trouble with his legs. Would you pursue something like this or let him be in peace? Amy --- On Sun, 6/27/10, Laurieskatz lauriesk...@mchsi.com wrote: From: Laurieskatz lauriesk...@mchsi.com Subject: [Felvtalk] rear leg weakness- Revolution used? To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: 'Carmen Conklin' cwshel...@wildblue.net Date: Sunday, June 27, 2010, 2:06 PM From: Carmen Conklin [mailto:cwshel...@wildblue.net] Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:57 PM To: Laurieskatz Subject: felvgroup Hi, I can't seem to be able to email into the felv group today-could you ask them a question regarding the Re: weakness in hind legs thing?? I want to know if they had used Revolution on any of the cats that had that weakness in hind legs problem... Thanks, Carmen ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] rear leg weakness- Revolution used? and update
i always ask the vets what they would do IF IT WERE THEIR CAT--you often get very different answers when you phrase things that way. -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] rear leg weakness- Revolution used? and update
Amy, it is a tough call. Here is what Broadwater Vet says about high Ca. http://www.broadwayvh.com/site/view/83223_LaboratoryAssessmentDescriptions.pml;jsessionid=ykajf9p4y6uh The calcium level high. This is always concerning. A persistently high calcium level, or hypercalcemia, can be toxic to kidney cells and it leads to poor muscle function, especially within the intestines, heart and limbs. It can also lead to hypertension, urinary stones and tissue mineralization. A high calcium level can be due to kidney disease, certain cancers, over-supplementation, Vitamin D toxicity, a hormonal disease called hyperparathyroidism or it may be idiopathic, meaning it is occurring for unexplained reasons. The iCa test has to be sent off to a university for the results. My CRF kitty, Albert, had high iCa and I got it down by change the fluids used for his sub q fluids. Sharyl --- On Sun, 6/27/10, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] rear leg weakness- Revolution used? and update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Sunday, June 27, 2010, 3:33 PM I have not used Revolution on Wolfie. Wolfie is still acting himself, is eating fine but he is definitely getting weaker in the back legs. It's really hard to see because I don't think things are going to get better. He has food and litter on the main floor but is still choosing to do stairs (making me a nervous wreck). He's starting to have a tough time with the kitchen floor (linoleum) so I'm putting carpets down to help. Wish I could do something more for him but I always feel that way when my leuk positives start going downhill. I hate this disease. Looking for opinions here. Wolfie's calcium was 11.6 when the blood work was done. Normal is 8.2-11.5. The vet at Cornell wants me to draw another sample to check his active or ionized calcium to see if his Calcium is actually high. Would you put your cat through this if your gut is that he doesn't have long? I asked what we would do if it's high. She said we'd look at all causes and rule them out and if none of those applied, we'd alter his diet to try bringing it down. He's anemic and having trouble with his legs. Would you pursue something like this or let him be in peace? Amy --- On Sun, 6/27/10, Laurieskatz lauriesk...@mchsi.com wrote: From: Laurieskatz lauriesk...@mchsi.com Subject: [Felvtalk] rear leg weakness- Revolution used? To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: 'Carmen Conklin' cwshel...@wildblue.net Date: Sunday, June 27, 2010, 2:06 PM From: Carmen Conklin [mailto:cwshel...@wildblue.net] Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:57 PM To: Laurieskatz Subject: felvgroup Hi, I can't seem to be able to email into the felv group today-could you ask them a question regarding the Re: weakness in hind legs thing?? I want to know if they had used Revolution on any of the cats that had that weakness in hind legs problem... Thanks, Carmen ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
