Re: OT:FIV false positive? LONG answer!
I am so very behind in reading the posts ... however, I do have a female FIV+ and there was another female FIV+ also taken from the same house. It was a terrible living situation and the cats were taken out and shared with shelters and trusted kitty people. I took three catsand Tabitha tested positive. The vet guestamated she is one year old. The other positive was taken by a vet who immediately put her down after testing. "No point in fooling with the positives." Iheard her say she would but didn't know about the test results until afterwards.We have no idea if the two females were related. Del - Original Message - From: catatonya To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 7:54 PM Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? LONG answer! It IS strange, isn't it, how cool the fiv cats are! My fiv cat was just as you described. The MOST laid back, friendly, neat cat I've ever had. HUGE! Especially when I first rescued him and he wasn't neutered yet. (I don't know his age, but he was old and died of hepatic liver disease. We didn't know his status until he got sick with that. He just started losing weight, and by the time I noticed (under all the hair), it was too late. Everyone loved him. Even those who aren't too fond of my menagerie loved Brutus. A vet came to visit our school this year with a huge cat. She passed him around the room, etc... like a puppy. She said he was one of the only cats she'd ever been able to take out to schools, etc because nothing bothered him. He was fiv positive and lived with her other cats at home. Some vets file their incisors. I don't remember if she said they'd done that or not on this guy. Come to think of it, I've never heard of anyone with a female fiv positive. Strange. tTenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: oh, heavens, yes, chris--not only that, but to a great degree, all FIVreally seems to do is make cats big, lazy and couch-potatoes...seriously--from the experiences at the FIV/FeLV sanctuary, theHEALTHIEST population--including the owner-surrenders, strays andferals, were the FIVs.three years ago, some strays brought in distemper. altho ALL the catshad been vaccinated when they came into sanctuary, we had no way ofknowing, of course, whether they'd ever gotten the full, two-seriessets of shots to "set" the immunity. as you may or may not know (ididn't), distemper spreads VERY VERY easily--as little as an infectedgrain of litter carried from room to room is said to be enough.TWO HUNDRED CATS died from that distemper episode, despite heroicmedical intervention (this happened about 6 months before i arrived,so i luckily didn't have to deal with it). not ONE FIV cat got thedistemper--not one. we saw similar results with less seriousinfections--when uris ran around the buildings, the FIVs either didn'tget it, or recovered faster. why? who knows. there was some talk aboutjust dumping the FIV room and moving them from their building into thegeneral population--but we didn't want to make them sick! the onlyconsistent medical problem that the FIVs seem more prone to is herpesviruses, and as everyone on this list knows, daily doses of lysinedropped the incidence of that right back down. there ARE end-stagesymptoms of FIV that appear in some cats, but in most cases, FIV catsdie of old age before they appearwe call the FIV room the neighborhood bar: since 95+% of FIV cats areformer toms who got it while out fighting over girls (or, as one vetsuggests, running AWAY from males fighting over girls), it's mostlybig old neutered toms. once neutered, that need to prove themselvesevaporates. did i mention BIG? the largest cats in the sanctuary arethe FIV boys--it's been great fun to take the 16#rs and up to vets whoknow nothing about FIV--"they can't possibly be sick!" exactlythey lay around all day watching tv, drinking catnip beer, playing "gofish," and talking about the mice they used to chase. you bring thefood into the room and they say, "um, could you bring that bowl alittle closer to ME, please?" they are the lovingest bunch of cats inthe world--laps are their favorite places to nap. the few girls(mostly calicos, interestingly enough) just walk around shaking theirheads wondering how they ever ended up in such a place. MANY of thesanctuary's FIV cats ended up going home with volunteers because theywere just too irresistable.i have two fivs with my cats now; lost a third last august tosomething totally unrelated to FIV.many tnr groups don't even test for FIV anymore, i'm told, becauseit's such a nothing disease--again, once neutered, the urge to bite asd
RE: OT:FIV false positive?
This could be because if the FIV+ cat (Licks) washes the FIV- cat and then if the FIV- cat licks it's self on the spot where the FIV+ cat licked him/her and said cat has a break in the skin in it's mouth it is then possible that the FIV- can become FIV+
Re: OT:FIV false positive?
karolyn, there is no credible evidence at this point that FIV passes in ANY way other than DEEP, PENETRATING bites--certainly not by licking! it has to be blood to blood, and even rough play bites do not seem to be a problem. remember that FIV+ generally passes during serious male to male fights over females--while not fights to the death, exactly, we are NOT talking simple play time. very few females, who certainly fight as well, contract FIV, except through deep, penetrating bites probably received during, excuse the expression, rough sex. this level of aggression is testosterone-driven, and once a cat is neutered, those urges are just not there any longer. go to a sanctuary and look into the FIV room--fat, lazy, incredibly cuddly couch potatoes. in the rare cases that an FIV male does remain aggressive after neutering, two solutions that totally remove any danger are extraction of the canine teeth and/or filing them down so that any bite inflict a bite deep enough to pass the virus. the other thing to remember is that, even if FIV is contracted, it is basically a nothing disease--as others have said, cats die WITH FIV, rarely because of it. MC
Re: OT:FIV false positive?
um, let me rephrase that one sentence: so that any bite inflicted will not be deep enough to pass the virus. (sometimes i wonder if meow was my first language, explaining my increasing inability to write a complete sentence) MC
Re: OT:FIV false positive?
Ha! I had to go back and read your original sentence to see what you were talking about. I must be able to read meow, the syntax didn't throw me at all! Nina TenHouseCats wrote: um, let me rephrase that one sentence: so that any bite inflicted will not be deep enough to pass the virus. (sometimes i wonder if meow was my first language, explaining my increasing inability to write a complete sentence) MC
RE: OT:FIV false positive?
It has been my experience that 99% of FIV+ cats live to die of things related to negative old cats
Re: OT:FIV false positive?
Hi Hideyo, This particular study was on NATURALLY infected cats (no IP infections - Yuk) Kind regards, Glenda Our FeLV/FIV kitties other stuff: http://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_icicle - Original Message - From: Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:50 PM Subject: RE: OT:FIV false positive? I will try to find it - it was an official experimental study done by someone (whom of course I can't remember)
Re: OT:FIV false positive?
Hi MC, Whenever I see something of interest, I use CISTI which allows you full access to the "neverending" research on whatever one wishes. The study that I recall that I ordered a few years agothat confirmed non-aggressive transmission (other than "paw flailing" at their feeding station) was this one. Here's the abstract: : Vet Rec. 2000 Apr 8;146(15):419-24. Related Articles, Links Long-term impact on a closed household of pet cats of natural infection with feline coronavirus, feline leukaemia virus and feline immunodeficiency virus. Addie DD, Dennis JM, Toth S, Callanan JJ, Reid S, Jarrett O. Department of Veterinary Pathology, University of Glasgow Veterinary School, Bearsden. A closed household of 26 cats in which feline coronavirus (FCoV), feline leukaemia virus (FeLV) and feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV) were endemic was observed for 10 years. Each cat was seropositive for FCoV on at least one occasion and the infection was maintained by reinfection. After 10 years, three of six surviving cats were still seropositive. Only one cat, which was also infected with FIV, developed feline infectious peritonitis (FIP). Rising anti-FCoV antibody titres did not indicate that the cat would develop FIP. The FeLV infection was self-limiting because all seven of the initially viraemic cats died within five years and the remainder were immune. However, FeLV had the greatest impact on mortality. Nine cats were initially FIV-positive and six more cats became infected during the course of the study, without evidence of having been bitten. The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy. PMID: 10811262 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Kind regards, Glenda Our FeLV/FIV kitties other stuff:http://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_icicle - Original Message - From: TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? hideyo, i would be very interested in seeing any info showing non-aggressive contact passing the FIV virus--that goes against everything i have read and if there IS such info, it's important that all of us with positives know! (i tend to suspect it's not current info, but since things change so quickly now that they're actually doing research, i'm open) thanks! MC
Re: OT:FIV false positive?
I don't know but I know 2 vets who mix fiv cats in their own homes with negatives. tonyagg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi MC, Whenever I see something of interest, I use CISTI which allows you full access to the "neverending" research on whatever one wishes. The study that I recall that I ordered a few years agothat confirmed non-aggressive transmission (other than "paw flailing" at their feeding station) was this one. Here's the abstract: : Vet Rec. 2000 Apr 8;146(15):419-24. Related Articles, Links Long-term impact on a closed household of pet cats of natural infection with feline coronavirus, feline leukaemia virus and feline immunodeficiency virus. Addie DD, Dennis JM, Toth S, Callanan JJ, Reid S, Jarrett O. Department of Veterinary Pathology, University of Glasgow Veterinary School, Bearsden. A closed household of 26 cats in which feline coronavirus (FCoV), feline leukaemia virus (FeLV) and feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV) were endemic was observed for 10 years. Each cat was seropositive for FCoV on at least one occasion and the infection was maintained by reinfection. After 10 years, three of six surviving cats were still seropositive. Only one cat, which was also infected with FIV, developed feline infectious peritonitis (FIP). Rising anti-FCoV antibody titres did not indicate that the cat would develop FIP. The FeLV infection was self-limiting because all seven of the initially viraemic cats died within five years and the remainder were immune. However, FeLV had the greatest impact on mortality. Nine cats were initially FIV-positive and six more cats became infected during the course of the study, without evidence of having been bitten. The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy. PMID: 10811262 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Kind regards, Glenda Our FeLV/FIV kitties other stuff:http://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_icicle - Original Message - From: TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? hideyo, i would be very interested in seeing any info showing non-aggressive contact passing the FIV virus--that goes against everything i have read and if there IS such info, it's important that all of us with positives know! (i tend to suspect it's not current info, but since things change so quickly now that they're actually doing research, i'm open) thanks! MC
Re: OT:FIV false positive?
Yo Glenda - Very interesting! Would be interested to see a breakdown of the cats and infections. In other words, which cats were infected with what, and then which came down with what? Were there any normal non infected cats to start out with? Or just cats with viruses already. Also, i've never hear of CISTI so glad to know that. Is it available online? i'm headin out to look for it! Gloria Hi MC, Whenever I see something of interest, I use CISTI which allows you full access to the neverending research on whatever one wishes. The study that I recall that I ordered a few years ago that confirmed non-aggressive transmission (other than paw flailing at their feeding station) was this one. Here's the abstract: : Vet Rec. 2000 Apr 8;146(15):419-24. Related Articles, Links Long-term impact on a closed household of pet cats of natural infection with feline coronavirus, feline leukaemia virus and feline immunodeficiency virus. Addie DD, Dennis JM, Toth S, Callanan JJ, Reid S, Jarrett O. Department of Veterinary Pathology, University of Glasgow Veterinary School, Bearsden. A closed household of 26 cats in which feline coronavirus (FCoV), feline leukaemia virus (FeLV) and feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV) were endemic was observed for 10 years. Each cat was seropositive for FCoV on at least one occasion and the infection was maintained by reinfection. After 10 years, three of six surviving cats were still seropositive. Only one cat, which was also infected with FIV, developed feline infectious peritonitis (FIP). Rising anti-FCoV antibody titres did not indicate that the cat would develop FIP. The FeLV infection was self-limiting because all seven of the initially viraemic cats died within five years and the remainder were immune. However, FeLV had the greatest impact on mortality. Nine cats were initially FIV-positive and six more cats became infected during the course of the study, without evidence of having been bitten. The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy. PMID: 10811262 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Kind regards, Glenda Our FeLV/FIV kitties other stuff: http://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_iciclehttp://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_icicle - Original Message - From: TenHouseCats mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? hideyo, i would be very interested in seeing any info showing non-aggressive contact passing the FIV virus--that goes against everything i have read and if there IS such info, it's important that all of us with positives know! (i tend to suspect it's not current info, but since things change so quickly now that they're actually doing research, i'm open) thanks! MC
RE: OT:FIV false positive?
I have a couple of questions/thoughts on this First, no mention of anyone vaccinated, no indication of cats ages, etc. Also, given the shortcomings of initial testing (virus may be hidden), I would think it would be hard to tell with absolute certainty who had what when! I was also intrigued by the last statement: The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy Im not sure what that meanscats can have virus and have no effect??? I dont know much about FIV so maybe Im just not understanding something basic. Finally, do you know what the studys purpose was? Sometimes, the side results of a study are not fully explored if they dont fall in the realm of the original purpose. And absolute last, 5 years is a long time in this field Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of catatonya Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 6:11 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? I don't know but I know 2 vets who mix fiv cats in their own homes with negatives. tonya gg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi MC, Whenever I see something of interest, I use CISTI which allows you full access to the neverending research on whatever one wishes. The study that I recall that I ordered a few years agothat confirmed non-aggressive transmission (other than paw flailing at their feeding station) was this one. Here's the abstract: : Vet Rec. 2000 Apr 8;146(15):419-24. Related Articles, Links Long-term impact on a closed household of pet cats of natural infection with feline coronavirus, feline leukaemia virus and feline immunodeficiency virus. Addie DD, Dennis JM, Toth S, Callanan JJ, Reid S, Jarrett O. Department of Veterinary Pathology, University of Glasgow Veterinary School, Bearsden. A closed household of 26 cats in which feline coronavirus (FCoV), feline leukaemia virus (FeLV) and feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV) were endemic was observed for 10 years. Each cat was seropositive for FCoV on at least one occasion and the infection was maintained by reinfection. After 10 years, three of six surviving cats were still seropositive. Only one cat, which was also infected with FIV, developed feline infectious peritonitis (FIP). Rising anti-FCoV antibody titres did not indicate that the cat would develop FIP. The FeLV infection was self-limiting because all seven of the initially viraemic cats died within five years and the remainder were immune. However, FeLV had the greatest impact on mortality. Nine cats were initially FIV-positive and six more cats became infected during the course of the study, without evidence of having been bitten. The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy. PMID: 10811262 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Kind regards, Glenda Our FeLV/FIV kitties other stuff: http://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_icicle - Original Message - From: TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? hideyo, i would be very interested in seeing any info showing non-aggressive contact passing the FIV virus--that goes against everything i have read and if there IS such info, it's important that all of us with positives know! (i tend to suspect it's not current info, but since things change so quickly now that they're actually doing research, i'm open) thanks! MC
RE: OT:FIV false positive?
Just for my own info if you con't mind--so FIV cats are really at less risk from virus than FELV cats? Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gloria B. Lane Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 1:13 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: OT:FIV false positive? FIV cats can normally be expected to live long lives if well cared for (for example, not outside as strays). Gloria At 10:44 AM 3/29/2005, you wrote: I have a couple of questions/thoughts on this. First, no mention of anyone vaccinated, no indication of cats' ages, etc. Also, given the shortcomings of initial testing (virus may be hidden), I would think it would be hard to tell with absolute certainty who had what when! I was also intrigued by the last statement: The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy I'm not sure what that means-cats can have virus and have no effect??? I don't know much about FIV so maybe I'm just not understanding something basic. Finally, do you know what the study's purpose was? Sometimes, the 'side' results of a study are not fully explored if they don't fall in the realm of the original purpose. And absolute last, 5 years is a long time in this field. Chris mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of catatonya Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 6:11 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? I don't know but I know 2 vets who mix fiv cats in their own homes with negatives. tonya gg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi MC, Whenever I see something of interest, I use CISTI which allows you full access to the neverending research on whatever one wishes. The study that I recall that I ordered a few years ago that confirmed non-aggressive transmission (other than paw flailing at their feeding station) was this one. Here's the abstract: : Vet Rec. 2000 Apr 8;146(15):419-24. Related Articles, Links Long-term impact on a closed household of pet cats of natural infection with feline coronavirus, feline leukaemia virus and feline immunodeficiency virus. Addie DD, Dennis JM, Toth S, Callanan JJ, Reid S, Jarrett O. Department of Veterinary Pathology, University of Glasgow Veterinary School, Bearsden. A closed household of 26 cats in which feline coronavirus (FCoV), feline leukaemia virus (FeLV) and feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV) were endemic was observed for 10 years. Each cat was seropositive for FCoV on at least one occasion and the infection was maintained by reinfection. After 10 years, three of six surviving cats were still seropositive. Only one cat, which was also infected with FIV, developed feline infectious peritonitis (FIP). Rising anti-FCoV antibody titres did not indicate that the cat would develop FIP. The FeLV infection was self-limiting because all seven of the initially viraemic cats died within five years and the remainder were immune. However, FeLV had the greatest impact on mortality. Nine cats were initially FIV-positive and six more cats became infected during the course of the study, without evidence of having been bitten. The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy. PMID: 10811262 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Kind regards, Glenda Our FeLV/FIV kitties other stuff: http://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_iciclehttp://community.webshots. com/user/sicky_icicle - Original Message - From: TenHouseCats mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? hideyo, i would be very interested in seeing any info showing non-aggressive contact passing the FIV virus--that goes against everything i have read and if there IS such info, it's important that all of us with positives know! (i tend to suspect it's not current info, but since things change so quickly now that they're actually doing research, i'm open) thanks! MC
RE: OT:FIV false positive?
Right - the FIV cats are at less risk, and considered less contagious. It's considered to be only contagious thru deep bite wounds, so the study mentioned is interesting. Gloria At 12:15 PM 3/29/2005, you wrote: Just for my own info if you con't mind--so FIV cats are really at less risk from virus than FELV cats? Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gloria B. Lane Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 1:13 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: OT:FIV false positive? FIV cats can normally be expected to live long lives if well cared for (for example, not outside as strays). Gloria At 10:44 AM 3/29/2005, you wrote: I have a couple of questions/thoughts on this. First, no mention of anyone vaccinated, no indication of cats' ages, etc. Also, given the shortcomings of initial testing (virus may be hidden), I would think it would be hard to tell with absolute certainty who had what when! I was also intrigued by the last statement: The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy I'm not sure what that means-cats can have virus and have no effect??? I don't know much about FIV so maybe I'm just not understanding something basic. Finally, do you know what the study's purpose was? Sometimes, the 'side' results of a study are not fully explored if they don't fall in the realm of the original purpose. And absolute last, 5 years is a long time in this field. Chris mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of catatonya Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 6:11 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? I don't know but I know 2 vets who mix fiv cats in their own homes with negatives. tonya gg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi MC, Whenever I see something of interest, I use CISTI which allows you full access to the neverending research on whatever one wishes. The study that I recall that I ordered a few years ago that confirmed non-aggressive transmission (other than paw flailing at their feeding station) was this one. Here's the abstract: : Vet Rec. 2000 Apr 8;146(15):419-24. Related Articles, Links Long-term impact on a closed household of pet cats of natural infection with feline coronavirus, feline leukaemia virus and feline immunodeficiency virus. Addie DD, Dennis JM, Toth S, Callanan JJ, Reid S, Jarrett O. Department of Veterinary Pathology, University of Glasgow Veterinary School, Bearsden. A closed household of 26 cats in which feline coronavirus (FCoV), feline leukaemia virus (FeLV) and feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV) were endemic was observed for 10 years. Each cat was seropositive for FCoV on at least one occasion and the infection was maintained by reinfection. After 10 years, three of six surviving cats were still seropositive. Only one cat, which was also infected with FIV, developed feline infectious peritonitis (FIP). Rising anti-FCoV antibody titres did not indicate that the cat would develop FIP. The FeLV infection was self-limiting because all seven of the initially viraemic cats died within five years and the remainder were immune. However, FeLV had the greatest impact on mortality. Nine cats were initially FIV-positive and six more cats became infected during the course of the study, without evidence of having been bitten. The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy. PMID: 10811262 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Kind regards, Glenda Our FeLV/FIV kitties other stuff: http://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_iciclehttp://community.webshots. com/user/sicky_icicle - Original Message - From: TenHouseCats mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? hideyo, i would be very interested in seeing any info showing non-aggressive contact passing the FIV virus--that goes against everything i have read and if there IS such info, it's important that all of us with positives know! (i tend to suspect it's not current info, but since things change so quickly now that they're actually doing research, i'm open) thanks! MC
RE: OT:FIV false positive?
Well, just my own simplistic attitude about this whole thing--viruses are strange little things in humans animals. The science is just now catching up with the 'life cycle' of viruses and more more we hear about viruses that we all carry than can sort of be activated by a variety of circumstances. When it comes to the FELV virus, I sort of feel that it probably is carried by many more cats than anyone knows, that for some reason, some cats start showing symptoms become carriers, and that unless you have a kitten from birth that you test at least once a year always keep inside never expose to another cat, you never really know who is carrying what! Now, I would never consciously expose a kitten to any disease, no matter what it is, but for my adults (particularly with vaccination), I just don' think I am putting them at any greater risk than if they were out and about on their own (which they all were before they found me!). Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gloria B. Lane Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 1:29 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: OT:FIV false positive? Right - the FIV cats are at less risk, and considered less contagious. It's considered to be only contagious thru deep bite wounds, so the study mentioned is interesting. Gloria At 12:15 PM 3/29/2005, you wrote: Just for my own info if you con't mind--so FIV cats are really at less risk from virus than FELV cats? Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gloria B. Lane Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 1:13 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: OT:FIV false positive? FIV cats can normally be expected to live long lives if well cared for (for example, not outside as strays). Gloria At 10:44 AM 3/29/2005, you wrote: I have a couple of questions/thoughts on this. First, no mention of anyone vaccinated, no indication of cats' ages, etc. Also, given the shortcomings of initial testing (virus may be hidden), I would think it would be hard to tell with absolute certainty who had what when! I was also intrigued by the last statement: The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy I'm not sure what that means-cats can have virus and have no effect??? I don't know much about FIV so maybe I'm just not understanding something basic. Finally, do you know what the study's purpose was? Sometimes, the 'side' results of a study are not fully explored if they don't fall in the realm of the original purpose. And absolute last, 5 years is a long time in this field. Chris mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of catatonya Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 6:11 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? I don't know but I know 2 vets who mix fiv cats in their own homes with negatives. tonya gg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi MC, Whenever I see something of interest, I use CISTI which allows you full access to the neverending research on whatever one wishes. The study that I recall that I ordered a few years ago that confirmed non-aggressive transmission (other than paw flailing at their feeding station) was this one. Here's the abstract: : Vet Rec. 2000 Apr 8;146(15):419-24. Related Articles, Links Long-term impact on a closed household of pet cats of natural infection with feline coronavirus, feline leukaemia virus and feline immunodeficiency virus. Addie DD, Dennis JM, Toth S, Callanan JJ, Reid S, Jarrett O. Department of Veterinary Pathology, University of Glasgow Veterinary School, Bearsden. A closed household of 26 cats in which feline coronavirus (FCoV), feline leukaemia virus (FeLV) and feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV) were endemic was observed for 10 years. Each cat was seropositive for FCoV on at least one occasion and the infection was maintained by reinfection. After 10 years, three of six surviving cats were still seropositive. Only one cat, which was also infected with FIV, developed feline infectious peritonitis (FIP). Rising anti-FCoV antibody titres did not indicate that the cat would develop FIP. The FeLV infection was self-limiting because all seven of the initially viraemic cats died within five years and the remainder were immune. However, FeLV had the greatest impact on mortality. Nine cats were initially FIV-positive and six more cats became infected during the course of the study, without evidence of having been bitten. The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy. PMID: 10811262 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Kind regards, Glenda Our FeLV/FIV kitties other stuff: http://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_iciclehttp://community.webshots. com/user/sicky_icicle - Original Message
Re: OT:FIV false positive? LONG answer!
oh, heavens, yes, chris--not only that, but to a great degree, all FIV really seems to do is make cats big, lazy and couch-potatoes... seriously--from the experiences at the FIV/FeLV sanctuary, the HEALTHIEST population--including the owner-surrenders, strays and ferals, were the FIVs. three years ago, some strays brought in distemper. altho ALL the cats had been vaccinated when they came into sanctuary, we had no way of knowing, of course, whether they'd ever gotten the full, two-series sets of shots to set the immunity. as you may or may not know (i didn't), distemper spreads VERY VERY easily--as little as an infected grain of litter carried from room to room is said to be enough. TWO HUNDRED CATS died from that distemper episode, despite heroic medical intervention (this happened about 6 months before i arrived, so i luckily didn't have to deal with it). not ONE FIV cat got the distemper--not one. we saw similar results with less serious infections--when uris ran around the buildings, the FIVs either didn't get it, or recovered faster. why? who knows. there was some talk about just dumping the FIV room and moving them from their building into the general population--but we didn't want to make them sick! the only consistent medical problem that the FIVs seem more prone to is herpes viruses, and as everyone on this list knows, daily doses of lysine dropped the incidence of that right back down. there ARE end-stage symptoms of FIV that appear in some cats, but in most cases, FIV cats die of old age before they appear we call the FIV room the neighborhood bar: since 95+% of FIV cats are former toms who got it while out fighting over girls (or, as one vet suggests, running AWAY from males fighting over girls), it's mostly big old neutered toms. once neutered, that need to prove themselves evaporates. did i mention BIG? the largest cats in the sanctuary are the FIV boys--it's been great fun to take the 16#rs and up to vets who know nothing about FIV--they can't possibly be sick! exactly they lay around all day watching tv, drinking catnip beer, playing go fish, and talking about the mice they used to chase. you bring the food into the room and they say, um, could you bring that bowl a little closer to ME, please? they are the lovingest bunch of cats in the world--laps are their favorite places to nap. the few girls (mostly calicos, interestingly enough) just walk around shaking their heads wondering how they ever ended up in such a place. MANY of the sanctuary's FIV cats ended up going home with volunteers because they were just too irresistable. i have two fivs with my cats now; lost a third last august to something totally unrelated to FIV. many tnr groups don't even test for FIV anymore, i'm told, because it's such a nothing disease--again, once neutered, the urge to bite as deeply as needed to transmit the disease disappears. (in the rare cases an FIV remains aggressive, pulling the canine teeth makes it impossible to inflict a deep enough bite, according to one vet source.) the sentence about the FIV not affecting their life expectancy is the key--as one of my vets said last time i was there (and she was NOT good about FIV before working with us, tho she now has house FIVs)--FIV cats die WITH FIV, not FROM it. and three important things to remember: FIV was recognized/defined/whatever as a particular, separate entity during the early years of the HIV time in human medicine, and given its unfortunate misleading name then. FeLV works in cats very much as HIV does in human it terms of how it's passed, how opportunistic infections affect positive cats etc--FIV is NOTHING like that. so it is the name that is the scariest aspect of the virus. most cats were NOT tested for FIV until recently, so many male cats who were ever outdoors unneutered would test positive. if you have a healthy cat who's been indoors since you adopted/rescued him, and he's tested during a workup for something else and comes up positive--well, think of how he's been up til then. he's been FIV+ the whole time, and nothing's changed! finally, remember that the current FIV vaccine, unlike the FeLV one, ensures that a vaccinated cat will test positive forever. ie, if a vaccinated cat gets out and is caught by animal control or taken in by a rescue/vet unfamiliar with FIV, the cat will test positive and likely be euthanized. i know that there are vets who vaccinate for FIV, but i have to admit that even BEFORE i worked at the sanctuary, i never met one if you DO have a cat vaccinated against FIV, then PLEASE microchip him with that info! there's research going on right now re: DNA (PCR) testing to differentiate the strain of FIV the cat is carrying--whether it's the vaccine-induced version or not, but so far the results are mixed--and what shelter/rescue is gonna do that, anyway? there's a new vaccine, a combo FIV/FeLV one, that i don't know anything about--so i don't know if that'll have the same problem. (the
Re: OT:FIV false positive?
Nine cats were initially FIV-positive and six more cats became infected during the course of the study, without evidence of having been bitten*. Thank you Glenda. I stand corrected. You may, quite literally, be a life saver. I guess this is why vets don't trust anecdotal reporting. Nina gg wrote: Hi MC, Whenever I see something of interest, I use *CISTI *which allows you full access to the neverending research on whatever one wishes. The study that I recall that I ordered a few years ago that confirmed non-aggressive transmission (other than *paw flailing *at their feeding station) was this one. Here's the abstract: *: Vet Rec. 2000 Apr 8;146(15):419-24. Related Articles, Links * Long-term impact on a closed household of pet cats of natural infection with feline coronavirus, feline leukaemia virus and feline immunodeficiency virus. Addie DD, Dennis JM, Toth S, Callanan JJ, Reid S, Jarrett O. Department of Veterinary Pathology, University of Glasgow Veterinary School, Bearsden. A closed household of 26 cats in which feline coronavirus (FCoV), feline leukaemia virus (FeLV) and feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV) were endemic was observed for 10 years. Each cat was seropositive for FCoV on at least one occasion and the infection was maintained by reinfection. After 10 years, three of six surviving cats were still seropositive. Only one cat, which was also infected with FIV, developed feline infectious peritonitis (FIP). Rising anti-FCoV antibody titres did not indicate that the cat would develop FIP. The FeLV infection was self-limiting because all seven of the initially viraemic cats died within five years and the remainder were immune. However, FeLV had the greatest impact on mortality. *Nine cats were initially FIV-positive and six more cats became infected during the course of the study, without evidence of having been bitten*. *The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy.* PMID: 10811262 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Kind regards, Glenda Our FeLV/FIV kitties other stuff: http://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_icicle - Original Message - From: TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? hideyo, i would be very interested in seeing any info showing non-aggressive contact passing the FIV virus--that goes against everything i have read and if there IS such info, it's important that all of us with positives know! (i tend to suspect it's not current info, but since things change so quickly now that they're actually doing research, i'm open) thanks! MC
RE: OT:FIV false positive? LONG answer!
I have to agree with you wholeheartedly at all points!! I have three definite FIV boy cats - they are so healthy! I rescued all of them three or four years ago, and they are the chubbiest, and happiest cats of all. One developed Diabetes a couple of years ago, and I almost lost him after dental cleaning surgery due to an reaction from anesthesia, and he just laid in the room for two weeks with no food (I had to give him fluid everyday, and I couldn't force feed him as he would spit them back) - my vet thought that I should give up and euthanize him, but I couldn't, and my holistic vet thought that I should try a bit longer - and in two weeks, he stood up and started eating (I cried so hard when I saw the miracle happen) - and now he is a chubby happy boy (his name is Leo) - Since I haven't experienced with any serious symptoms with my FIV cats, I just don't know if I should make a big deal out of it at all - I have two other possibly FIV (possibly, but least likely) kitties, but they are both asymptomatic as well - they are also chubby and very healthy! I am waiting for Western Blot Result from Antech for Squeekie(Buddah)'s result to see if it will confirm their ELISA result - and I am praying and and feeling that it will come back as a negative (I am crossing my finger - and please pray for her also)- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 12:05 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? LONG answer! oh, heavens, yes, chris--not only that, but to a great degree, all FIV really seems to do is make cats big, lazy and couch-potatoes... seriously--from the experiences at the FIV/FeLV sanctuary, the HEALTHIEST population--including the owner-surrenders, strays and ferals, were the FIVs. three years ago, some strays brought in distemper. altho ALL the cats had been vaccinated when they came into sanctuary, we had no way of knowing, of course, whether they'd ever gotten the full, two-series sets of shots to set the immunity. as you may or may not know (i didn't), distemper spreads VERY VERY easily--as little as an infected grain of litter carried from room to room is said to be enough. TWO HUNDRED CATS died from that distemper episode, despite heroic medical intervention (this happened about 6 months before i arrived, so i luckily didn't have to deal with it). not ONE FIV cat got the distemper--not one. we saw similar results with less serious infections--when uris ran around the buildings, the FIVs either didn't get it, or recovered faster. why? who knows. there was some talk about just dumping the FIV room and moving them from their building into the general population--but we didn't want to make them sick! the only consistent medical problem that the FIVs seem more prone to is herpes viruses, and as everyone on this list knows, daily doses of lysine dropped the incidence of that right back down. there ARE end-stage symptoms of FIV that appear in some cats, but in most cases, FIV cats die of old age before they appear we call the FIV room the neighborhood bar: since 95+% of FIV cats are former toms who got it while out fighting over girls (or, as one vet suggests, running AWAY from males fighting over girls), it's mostly big old neutered toms. once neutered, that need to prove themselves evaporates. did i mention BIG? the largest cats in the sanctuary are the FIV boys--it's been great fun to take the 16#rs and up to vets who know nothing about FIV--they can't possibly be sick! exactly they lay around all day watching tv, drinking catnip beer, playing go fish, and talking about the mice they used to chase. you bring the food into the room and they say, um, could you bring that bowl a little closer to ME, please? they are the lovingest bunch of cats in the world--laps are their favorite places to nap. the few girls (mostly calicos, interestingly enough) just walk around shaking their heads wondering how they ever ended up in such a place. MANY of the sanctuary's FIV cats ended up going home with volunteers because they were just too irresistable. i have two fivs with my cats now; lost a third last august to something totally unrelated to FIV. many tnr groups don't even test for FIV anymore, i'm told, because it's such a nothing disease--again, once neutered, the urge to bite as deeply as needed to transmit the disease disappears. (in the rare cases an FIV remains aggressive, pulling the canine teeth makes it impossible to inflict a deep enough bite, according to one vet source.) the sentence about the FIV not affecting their life expectancy is the key--as one of my vets said last time i was there (and she was NOT good about FIV before working with us, tho she now has house FIVs)--FIV cats die WITH FIV, not FROM it. and three important things to remember: FIV was recognized/defined/whatever as a particular, separate entity during the early years of the HIV
Re: OT:FIV false positive? LONG answer!
It IS strange, isn't it, how cool the fiv cats are! My fiv cat was just as you described. The MOST laid back, friendly, neat cat I've ever had. HUGE! Especially when I first rescued him and he wasn't neutered yet. (I don't know his age, but he was old and died of hepatic liver disease. We didn't know his status until he got sick with that. He just started losing weight, and by the time I noticed (under all the hair), it was too late. Everyone loved him. Even those who aren't too fond of my menagerie loved Brutus. A vet came to visit our school this year with a huge cat. She passed him around the room, etc... like a puppy. She said he was one of the only cats she'd ever been able to take out to schools, etc because nothing bothered him. He was fiv positive and lived with her other cats at home. Some vets file their incisors. I don't remember if she said they'd done that or not on this guy. Come to think of it, I've never heard of anyone with a female fiv positive. Strange. tTenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: oh, heavens, yes, chris--not only that, but to a great degree, all FIVreally seems to do is make cats big, lazy and couch-potatoes...seriously--from the experiences at the FIV/FeLV sanctuary, theHEALTHIEST population--including the owner-surrenders, strays andferals, were the FIVs.three years ago, some strays brought in distemper. altho ALL the catshad been vaccinated when they came into sanctuary, we had no way ofknowing, of course, whether they'd ever gotten the full, two-seriessets of shots to "set" the immunity. as you may or may not know (ididn't), distemper spreads VERY VERY easily--as little as an infectedgrain of litter carried from room to room is said to be enough.TWO HUNDRED CATS died from that distemper episode, despite heroicmedical intervention (this happened about 6 months before i arrived,so i luckily didn't have to deal with it). not ONE FIV cat got thedistemper--not one. we saw similar results with less seriousinfections--when uris ran around the buildings, the FIVs either didn'tget it, or recovered faster. why? who knows. there was some talk aboutjust dumping the FIV room and moving them from their building into thegeneral population--but we didn't want to make them sick! the onlyconsistent medical problem that the FIVs seem more prone to is herpesviruses, and as everyone on this list knows, daily doses of lysinedropped the incidence of that right back down. there ARE end-stagesymptoms of FIV that appear in some cats, but in most cases, FIV catsdie of old age before they appearwe call the FIV room the neighborhood bar: since 95+% of FIV cats areformer toms who got it while out fighting over girls (or, as one vetsuggests, running AWAY from males fighting over girls), it's mostlybig old neutered toms. once neutered, that need to prove themselvesevaporates. did i mention BIG? the largest cats in the sanctuary arethe FIV boys--it's been great fun to take the 16#rs and up to vets whoknow nothing about FIV--"they can't possibly be sick!" exactlythey lay around all day watching tv, drinking catnip beer, playing "gofish," and talking about the mice they used to chase. you bring thefood into the room and they say, "um, could you bring that bowl alittle closer to ME, please?" they are the lovingest bunch of cats inthe world--laps are their favorite places to nap. the few girls(mostly calicos, interestingly enough) just walk around shaking theirheads wondering how they ever ended up in such a place. MANY of thesanctuary's FIV cats ended up going home with volunteers because theywere just too irresistable.i have two fivs with my cats now; lost a third last august tosomething totally unrelated to FIV.many tnr groups don't even test for FIV anymore, i'm told, becauseit's such a nothing disease--again, once neutered, the urge to bite asdeeply as needed to transmit the disease disappears. (in the rarecases an FIV remains aggressive, pulling the canine teeth makes itimpossible to inflict a deep enough bite, according to one vetsource.)the sentence about the FIV not affecting their life expectancy is thekey--as one of my vets said last time i was there (and she was NOTgood about FIV before working with us, tho she now has houseFIVs)--FIV cats die WITH FIV, not FROM it.and three important things to remember: FIV was recognized/defined/whatever as a particular, separate entityduring the early years of the HIV time in human medicine, and givenits unfortunate misleading name then. FeLV works in cats very much asHIV does in human it terms of how it's passed, how opportunisticinfections affect positive cats etc--FIV is NOTHING like that. so itis the name that is the scariest aspect of the virus.most cats were NOT tested for FIV until recently, so many male catswho were ever outdoors unneutered would test positive. if you have ahealthy cat who's been indoors since you adopted/rescued him, and he'stested during a workup for something else and comes up positive--well,think of how he's
Re: OT:FIV false positive? LONG answer!
part of the problem is that we don't know anything about these guys' history BEFORE they come to us--even with young cats, we don't know what diseases/illnesses they've had before, what genetic problems they are carrying around etc. so it's hard to know which is their past and which is the virus... i lost an undiagnosed-til-he-was-in-liver-failure FIV last summer myself--we don't know how old he really was, what his background was etc at tthe sanctuary, tho, we saw a DRAMATIC drop in eye and mouth infections once we started giving them lysine... on one of the FIV lists awhile back, someone talked about how her vet would NOT test her cat for it because the cat, didn't walk like an FIV cat. that's become a huge joke for all of us--every time we see a huge laidback tom, we say, yup, must be FIV--walks just like one! then there's the folks who want to know which cats are the Feline Positive ones one really ditzy woman KEPT saying that, no matter how many times we explained. they had to practically restrain me from pointing out the building where the Canine Positives lived, and the house for the Human Positives, and the barn where the Possum Positives and Raccoon Positives resided... MC
Re: OT:FIV false positive?
I'm not very up to date on reading the posts lately so may easily have missed something ... but most of us have our FIV+ mixed with our negatives unless the positive is aggressive since it usually takes a deep bite to pass the disease. FeLV+ is more contagious and not as many are mixed with negatives. Is there another reason to separate her if she is FIV+? Del - Original Message - From: Hideyo Yamamoto To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 11:59 AM Subject: OT:FIV false positive? Buddha (Squeekie)s blood work came back from a lab when we did ELISA in house clinic test, she was negative on FeLV/FIV then, Antech lab did the virus test again on ELISA (by mistake since I did not ask them to do so, but they did it anyway by mistake), but on their ELISA test from the lab, the FIV came back as positive. I had a similar thing happened to one my other kitties, Rikki when I first rescued him, the ELISA (both in house test and antech lab) came back as negative, 2 months later, we re-tested him again, and the antech came back as positive on FIV (did not do in house at this time) but I have always felt (just a feeling) that it was false positive for some reason, but the meantime, he was isolated from others just in case and two or three years later (which is sometime last year), I tested him again, and this time, in ELISA, both in house clinic and Antech lab came back as Negative, and ELISA/Western Blot by Cornell came back as negative, but DNA test through another lab came back as Positive which was very confusing. And I was supposed to send it again to UC Davis for another DNA test as recommended by Cornell but never have so he is still isolated. Also, he is asymptomatic (no symptoms at all). Again, I have three other FIV (definite FIV) boys, but they are all healthy, unlike FeLV, many cats dont necessary die from FIV, but die with FIV so its hard to tell from their heath condition sometimes. But because of the inconsistency, he is still alone, which makes me feel very badly. I should probably do another test and see what happens soon. Anyway, I guess I have to do the same thing for Buddha (run western blot and another ELISA, and possibly IFA and DNA test I had to anesthetize her to draw blood last time, and probably have to do so again, which I hate to do, but, I really cant merge her with other kitties without knowing for sure of the results because of the risks to other cats anyway, I am writing this to you in case you have any insights on this situation. Unlike FeLV virus, once you have the FIV virus in the body, the virus tends to stay so once its positive, s/he will always be positive so inconsistency of the results (from positive to negative) comes from false test result, thats what I read and heard. Everyone, regardless, please pray for Buddha that she does not have FIV I really wanted her to merge with the cats in the main house which will make it difficult otherwise. Again, thank you for listening, and I appreciate any advise or input. Thank you. Hideyo
RE: OT:FIV false positive?
Thank you for responding. Theoretically, yes, unless there do have a bite wound by the positive cat, the FIV should not be transmitted easily to negative cats. I also read research where they mix positives and negatives where they did not see apparent fighting or biting, and some % of the negatives became positives after a several months - -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Del Daniels Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 3:07 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? I'm not very up to date on reading the posts lately so may easily have missed something ... but most of us have our FIV+ mixed with our negatives unless the positive is aggressive since it usually takes a deep bite to pass the disease. FeLV+ is more contagious and not as many are mixed with negatives. Is there another reason to separate her if she is FIV+? Del - Original Message - From: Hideyo Yamamoto To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 11:59 AM Subject: OT:FIV false positive? Buddha (Squeekie)s blood work came back from a lab when we did ELISA in house clinic test, she was negative on FeLV/FIV then, Antech lab did the virus test again on ELISA (by mistake since I did not ask them to do so, but they did it anyway by mistake), but on their ELISA test from the lab, the FIV came back as positive. I had a similar thing happened to one my other kitties, Rikki when I first rescued him, the ELISA (both in house test and antech lab) came back as negative, 2 months later, we re-tested him again, and the antech came back as positive on FIV (did not do in house at this time) but I have always felt (just a feeling) that it was false positive for some reason, but the meantime, he was isolated from others just in case and two or three years later (which is sometime last year), I tested him again, and this time, in ELISA, both in house clinic and Antech lab came back as Negative, and ELISA/Western Blot by Cornell came back as negative, but DNA test through another lab came back as Positive which was very confusing. And I was supposed to send it again to UC Davis for another DNA test as recommended by Cornell but never have so he is still isolated. Also, he is asymptomatic (no symptoms at all). Again, I have three other FIV (definite FIV) boys, but they are all healthy, unlike FeLV, many cats dont necessary die from FIV, but die with FIV so its hard to tell from their heath condition sometimes. But because of the inconsistency, he is still alone, which makes me feel very badly. I should probably do another test and see what happens soon. Anyway, I guess I have to do the same thing for Buddha (run western blot and another ELISA, and possibly IFA and DNA test I had to anesthetize her to draw blood last time, and probably have to do so again, which I hate to do, but, I really cant merge her with other kitties without knowing for sure of the results because of the risks to other cats anyway, I am writing this to you in case you have any insights on this situation. Unlike FeLV virus, once you have the FIV virus in the body, the virus tends to stay so once its positive, s/he will always be positive so inconsistency of the results (from positive to negative) comes from false test result, thats what I read and heard. Everyone, regardless, please pray for Buddha that she does not have FIV I really wanted her to merge with the cats in the main house which will make it difficult otherwise. Again, thank you for listening, and I appreciate any advise or input. Thank you. Hideyo
Re: OT:FIV false positive?
hideyo, i would be very interested in seeing any info showing non-aggressive contact passing the FIV virus--that goes against everything i have read and if there IS such info, it's important that all of us with positives know! (i tend to suspect it's not current info, but since things change so quickly now that they're actually doing research, i'm open) thanks! MC
RE: OT:FIV false positive?
I will try to find it - it was an official experimental study done by someone (whom of course I can't remember) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 5:37 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? hideyo, i would be very interested in seeing any info showing non-aggressive contact passing the FIV virus--that goes against everything i have read and if there IS such info, it's important that all of us with positives know! (i tend to suspect it's not current info, but since things change so quickly now that they're actually doing research, i'm open) thanks! MC
Re: OT:FIV false positive?
of course you can't remember! no matter how carefully i try to file things so i can find them again, it always takes ages! that's part of the reason i'm beta-testing the new google-email service--you can search through things much more efficiently. hope you can find it tho, since i truly hope it's WRONG (looking at the two FIVs lounging around with the others) thanks MC On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:50:45 -0700, Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will try to find it - it was an official experimental study done by someone (whom of course I can't remember) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 5:37 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? hideyo, i would be very interested in seeing any info showing non-aggressive contact passing the FIV virus--that goes against everything i have read and if there IS such info, it's important that all of us with positives know! (i tend to suspect it's not current info, but since things change so quickly now that they're actually doing research, i'm open) thanks! MC
Re: OT:FIV false positive?
Hideyo, I too suspect that it's faulty info. I have a friend that rescues and has taken in FIV+. As long as they are friendly she mixes them with the negatives and has never had any others come up + because of it. Most vets will advise on the side of caution. I know you have a lot to consider at your house, but I truly hope you don't have to isolate another kitty. You have probably surmised from my posts that I feel it is a lousy way for them to live. Yes, they're safer, but is that always the most important thing? I worry about the quality of life for poor little Ginger, and now, after all Buddha has been through, I hate to think of her sharing that fate. Just my opinion, which I can't seem to keep to myself! Nina TenHouseCats wrote: hideyo, i would be very interested in seeing any info showing non-aggressive contact passing the FIV virus--that goes against everything i have read and if there IS such info, it's important that all of us with positives know! (i tend to suspect it's not current info, but since things change so quickly now that they're actually doing research, i'm open) thanks! MC
Re: OT:FIV false positive?
on the other paw, nina (that phrase is how you can tell i'm a libra)--sometimes i think we judge a cat's comfort needs in our terms rather than in theirs. WE may not want to live in one room, but for someone who's never known regular shelter, food, care, warmth--perhaps it IS enough for them. at the sanctuary, ferals and strays did really well, while housecats couldn't handle it--it's pretty easy to tell when a cat is depressed. we had two feral moms who would NOT leave the condo cage they went into when first captured. they loved each other, they ate, they played, they looked out windows, they tried to kill us when we had to medicate them--and wanted nothing to do with humans or other cats. when eventually they were forced into the general population and their cage taken away, they started to fail rapidly--that cage was their home, and it was their safety so it truly depends on the cat. the equally humble MC
Re: OT:FIV false positive?
MC, You're absolutely right, it does depend on the cat. Every being is an individual and I've met my share of loners. I can guarantee you that my Ursula would much prefer to be an only cat. I was trying to train her out of her surly behavior to some of our other cats, and secluded her in the bedroom when she got nasty. It worked really well, but not for the reasons I thought it would! She very much liked having her own space away from the bothersome quadrupeds. In her case though, I don't think her attitude would have improved if I hadn't let her majesty out when she wanted. Our little Gypsy, on the other hand, would have been absolutely miserable if she had been shut away from the other kittens, (she's our born-in-the-wild feral) She's been smitten with Ursula from day one and when she was released from new-comer segregation, she would follow her around the house (at a safe distance!), just to be near her. It took her months to trust the humans, but I'm sure her progress was hastened from watching how the others interacted with us. Even Kimba, who was a complete social misfit, was very unhappy being isolated. He finally learned some manners because it became clear he only got to stay in general population when he behaved like a gentleman. Nina TenHouseCats wrote: on the other paw, nina (that phrase is how you can tell i'm a libra)--sometimes i think we judge a cat's comfort needs in our terms rather than in theirs. WE may not want to live in one room, but for someone who's never known regular shelter, food, care, warmth--perhaps it IS enough for them. at the sanctuary, ferals and strays did really well, while housecats couldn't handle it--it's pretty easy to tell when a cat is depressed. we had two feral moms who would NOT leave the condo cage they went into when first captured. they loved each other, they ate, they played, they looked out windows, they tried to kill us when we had to medicate them--and wanted nothing to do with humans or other cats. when eventually they were forced into the general population and their cage taken away, they started to fail rapidly--that cage was their home, and it was their safety so it truly depends on the cat. the equally humble MC
OT:FIV false positive?
Buddha (Squeekie)s blood work came back from a lab when we did ELISA in house clinic test, she was negative on FeLV/FIV then, Antech lab did the virus test again on ELISA (by mistake since I did not ask them to do so, but they did it anyway by mistake), but on their ELISA test from the lab, the FIV came back as positive. I had a similar thing happened to one my other kitties, Rikki when I first rescued him, the ELISA (both in house test and antech lab) came back as negative, 2 months later, we re-tested him again, and the antech came back as positive on FIV (did not do in house at this time) but I have always felt (just a feeling) that it was false positive for some reason, but the meantime, he was isolated from others just in case and two or three years later (which is sometime last year), I tested him again, and this time, in ELISA, both in house clinic and Antech lab came back as Negative, and ELISA/Western Blot by Cornell came back as negative, but DNA test through another lab came back as Positive which was very confusing. And I was supposed to send it again to UC Davis for another DNA test as recommended by Cornell but never have so he is still isolated. Also, he is asymptomatic (no symptoms at all). Again, I have three other FIV (definite FIV) boys, but they are all healthy, unlike FeLV, many cats dont necessary die from FIV, but die with FIV so its hard to tell from their heath condition sometimes. But because of the inconsistency, he is still alone, which makes me feel very badly. I should probably do another test and see what happens soon. Anyway, I guess I have to do the same thing for Buddha (run western blot and another ELISA, and possibly IFA and DNA test I had to anesthetize her to draw blood last time, and probably have to do so again, which I hate to do, but, I really cant merge her with other kitties without knowing for sure of the results because of the risks to other cats anyway, I am writing this to you in case you have any insights on this situation. Unlike FeLV virus, once you have the FIV virus in the body, the virus tends to stay so once its positive, s/he will always be positive so inconsistency of the results (from positive to negative) comes from false test result, thats what I read and heard. Everyone, regardless, please pray for Buddha that she does not have FIV I really wanted her to merge with the cats in the main house which will make it difficult otherwise. Again, thank you for listening, and I appreciate any advise or input. Thank you. Hideyo
