Re: RE..Update Akira
My heart is breaking for you. I have been in a situation like yours and I know how painful it is not to have the kind of support and understanding you need desperately at this time. I will be praying for you and Akira.Your BF I'm sure is hurting to and can't except the facts, but that doesn't help you. May God give you strength and comfort. Bless Akira and may she be at peace soon. Love, Sheila inline: Clouds.jpg
Re: RE..Update Akira
Lisa, Oh hon...I know how hard this is for you, I've been there too. Try not to be too hard on your boyfriend tho. Men are raised to "fix things"...he is seeing the same thing Akira is going through and what you are going through and its tearing him up too...he doesn't know how to "fix it" any more than you do, but see he's "SUPPOSED" to know...;-)so damnit he's gonna try to fix it "if you would just let him"! :-) And what is upsetting to him is that you "don't seem to want to let him help you both." Now I know that Akira is your cat, and the decisions are YOUR's to make, but your bf is scared out of his mind too...of loosing Akira, for his own feelings toward herand of loosing you, because right now, when all his logic tells him you should be needing him the most..you seem to be pushing him away, shutting him out, dismissing him, and he doesn't understand why. I truly doubt he is TRYING to make you feel bad...he prob. just sees your rejection of his suggestions as a rejection of HIM...Let's face it...this might very well be the first time he's had to deal with death without Mom Dad sheltering him from it, or leading him through it...so now all of a sudden he's the "adult" and he's going to help you if it kills you both! (Its very sweet...in a wayas much as it is irritating.) He's trying to play guardian, protector, savior, lover Dad...he doesn't know where to put himself, any more than you do right now...he's as scared as you...maybe more so, because Akira isn't his so he can't actually "take charge"...he feels helpless too...and since helplessness is a "weakness" he might be showing it as anger. I don't know how to tell you to deal with him...I just didn't want you to think that he is trying to hurt you...if he's never been demonstrative toward you before...its prob. just his fear and confusion that he's transferring... At least that's an educated guess from what I've read that you've postedif I've totally missed the mark...forgive me...just trying to help. God Bless. T[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 5/16/2005 4:27:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.vetinfo.com/cchohep.html#Cholagiohepatitis I want to thank everyone for their continued prayers adn kind words..they mean so much to me.,...I wish I could get hte same here.,...at home.Im so upset and just crying..inside..but can hardley seem to cry outwardly.My bf is not being overly nice about this..he wants to save hr no matter what..which I dont think is going to happen...and he is just making my second guessing myself all that much worseand even (I think..he says not) using it to make me feel worse about not doingt he feeding tube up front..I asked hi what were we supposed to do if one of the other needed vet care soonhes like "I dunno"well what kind of answer is that and then what about her?..and what she wants...I TOLD him it would be a long.,..not so pretty proccess..I dont know what he thought would happen...hes all "shes thin, shes losing her balance, her eye lids (third) are half way up, she ..this and that"..and I KNOWI jsut wish he would shut uphe doesn't care if its natural..he thinks its awful..adn now that I am doing teh what ifs...even more to myself..he is using that to make it worse on me..even though he swears he's not.. .as to everyone's suggestion..I have told her that is is ok for her to go..and I really mean it..I am terrified of seeing her this way... and am terrified of loosing her..she means so mcuh to meshe taught me so much, she has endured so much,...and she has taught others so much,.,,she is so special, and so magicalthis hurts so much..and I feel the only place I can get any comfort is here on the internet..not even at home Yet I really mean its ok for her to go.and I say it as honestly and heart felt as I can...I tell her I understand...and will see her again..adn know she will always be by my side..until she comes back to me... and to Belinda..about teh hepatitis thing..I THINK that that is what teh liver biospy is for that they would have to do to her Lisa and the furbratsAkira, Indy, Spooky, Mona, Lancelot, Bowtie, Bennie and Anza Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
Re: RE..Update Akira (the psychological conditioning of the human male)
Wow, amazingly well written, and I think most likely, totally on the mark for most men. They are psychologically conditioned to be this way from a young age. I'd say, let HIM read that email... it may be a real turning point in his life. I know if I was a man, and I read that, and saw the truth behind it, I might break down. Jenn ~~~ Oh hon...I know how hard this is for you, I've been there too. Try not to be too hard on your boyfriend tho. Men are raised to "fix things"...he is seeing the same thing Akira is going through and what you are going through and its tearing him up too...he doesn't know how to "fix it" any more than you do, but see he's "SUPPOSED" to know...;-)so damnit he's gonna try to fix it "if you would just let him"! :-) And what is upsetting to him is that you "don't seem to want to let him help you both." Now I know that Akira is your cat, and the decisions are YOUR's to make, but your bf is scared out of his mind too...of loosing Akira, for his own feelings toward herand of loosing you, because right now, when all his logic tells him you should be needing him the most..you seem to be pushing him away, shutting him out, dismissing him, and he doesn't understand why. I truly doubt he is TRYING to make you feel bad...he prob. just sees your rejection of his suggestions as a rejection of HIM...Let's face it...this might very well be the first time he's had to deal with death without Mom Dad sheltering him from it, or leading him through it...so now all of a sudden he's the "adult" and he's going to help you if it kills you both! (Its very sweet...in a wayas much as it is irritating.) He's trying to play guardian, protector, savior, lover Dad...he doesn't know where to put himself, any more than you do right now...he's as scared as you...maybe more so, because Akira isn't his so he can't actually "take charge"...he feels helpless too...and since helplessness is a "weakness" he might be showing it as anger. I don't know how to tell you to deal with him...I just didn't want you to think that he is trying to hurt you...if he's never been demonstrative toward you before...its prob. just his fear and confusion that he's transferring... At least that's an educated guess from what I've read that you've postedif I've totally missed the mark...forgive me...just trying to help. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.11 - Release Date: 5/16/2005
Re: RE..Update Akira
I have to stick up for Jenn here. When my Arielle was ready to go, I had her PTS. The vet was gentle, very kind, and I held her the whole time. Of course, you have to follow your own conscience, but I am not opposed to humane euthanasia. My 2 cents. =^..^= Terri, Salome', Siggie the Tomato Vampire, Guinevere, Sammi, and 5 furangels: RuthieGirl, Samantha, Arielle, Gareth and Alec =^..^= Furkid Photos! http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7sgqa/My FeLV Site: http://pages.ivillage.com/ruthiegirl1/MyFeLVinformationSite/My Personal Page: http://www.geocities.com/ruthiegirl1/terrispage.html?1083970447350 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:57 PM Subject: Re: RE..Update Akira I've not been responding with any suggestions so far, because I'm probably in the minority in my opinion, but I think she is suffering needlessly, and that HUMANE euthanasia would be the kindest thing for her at this point. I do not think that putting her through all the invasive procedures of biopsies and feeding tubes is the right thing to do. I know that if I ever get to that point, I HOPE that someone will have the kindness to ease my suffering and end my dwindling life (hopefully it will be legal by then). That's just how I feel though, and I'm not you, and she's not my cat, and I do not want you to in any way think that I am judging you, or criticizing your actions. It's just that you asked for opinions so many times, and I held my tongue a few times, but your plea has finally given me the will to say what I know will probably be my unpopular opinion. Whatever you decide, PLEASE make sure it is the decision that your heart tells you is the RIGHT one, because I know what living with regret every day feels like, and I don't want anyone to feel that kind of pain! My sincerest wishes of peace and understanding go out to you and Akira! Jenn ~~~ Thank you for the suggestion...I have toldher numerous timesyet wonder if she doesn't believe me? Or if even my BF is complicating things by telling her no..even though in front of me and her he says its oktonight when I got home form work she looked so much worse...I want to do as she wants but yet I fear I cant stomach it...I feel so awful about it and then my BF really is making things worse on me b/c he wants to put her through the biopsy, feeding tube, and is playing on my confusion right now...and is saying "I told you so" about wanting to treat her...in more subtle ways (not really saying I told you so..in fact saying he isn't..but it sure comes across that way) I got an estimate form my vet...after a bit of pesteringit would be over 600$ just to start the feeding tube...and to perform the next steps of testing to see if she is even helpable..plus she would be in the hospital for a week or more to start with..and being put under for biopsy's and the insertion of the tube..I just don't know if it is worth it..to put her though it... No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 5/13/2005
Re: RE..Update Akira
I've not been responding with any suggestions so far, because I'm probably in the minority in my opinion, but I think she is suffering needlessly, and that HUMANE euthanasia would be the kindest thing for her at this point. I do not think that putting her through all the invasive procedures of biopsies and feeding tubes is the right thing to do. I know that if I ever get to that point, I HOPE that someone will have the kindness to ease my suffering and end my dwindling life (hopefully it will be legal by then). That's just how I feel though, and I'm not you, and she's not my cat, and I do not want you to in any way think that I am judging you, or criticizing your actions. It's just that you asked for opinions so many times, and I held my tongue a few times, but your plea has finally given me the will to say what I know will probably be my unpopular opinion. Whatever you decide, PLEASE make sure it is the decision that your heart tells you is the RIGHT one, because I know what living with regret every day feels like, and I don't want anyone to feel that kind of pain! My sincerest wishes of peace and understanding go out to you and Akira! Jenn ~~~ Thank you for the suggestion...I have toldher numerous timesyet wonder if she doesn't believe me? Or if even my BF is complicating things by telling her no..even though in front of me and her he says its oktonight when I got home form work she looked so much worse...I want to do as she wants but yet I fear I cant stomach it...I feel so awful about it and then my BF really is making things worse on me b/c he wants to put her through the biopsy, feeding tube, and is playing on my confusion right now...and is saying "I told you so" about wanting to treat her...in more subtle ways (not really saying I told you so..in fact saying he isn't..but it sure comes across that way) I got an estimate form my vet...after a bit of pesteringit would be over 600$ just to start the feeding tube...and to perform the next steps of testing to see if she is even helpable..plus she would be in the hospital for a week or more to start with..and being put under for biopsy's and the insertion of the tube..I just don't know if it is worth it..to put her though it... No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 5/13/2005
Re: RE..Update Akira
Lisa, Everyone has their own ideas about euthanasia. You have to do what is right for you and what you feel is right for Akira. I'm not you, and would not presume to tell you what is right in your situation. When I have been in similar situations I have sometimes chosen to euthanize, and sometimes I chose to treat. I think Jenn made some good points in her response. I am praying for you and Akira. I am so sorry. I do know how hard it is to have to make the decision whether to put your precious friend through medical procedures that may or may not help, and how difficult it is to make the decision to let them go whether it be naturally or by deciding to help them. It is so hard. But we are only human. We have no way of knowing what the right thing to do is. It's unfair that the decision is put on YOU. I will say that when I've had these kinds of decisions to make I've found it helpful to sit down one on one and spend a lot of time talking to my cats and really looking into their eyes for answers. With each one it was different, but after a time I finally came up with a decision to treat or let go that I truly felt was a decision we 'agreed' on in some unspoken way. It gave me more of a feeling of peace. I wish I could help in some way, and you weren't in this position. I don't know how I really feel about animal communicators, but I dothink that there is a stronger bond and stronger communication between you and Akira than with an AC and Akira. What seems right to the two of you is what is most important. tonya[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've not been responding with any suggestions so far, because I'm probably in the minority in my opinion, but I think she is suffering needlessly, and that HUMANE euthanasia would be the kindest thing for her at this point. I do not think that putting her through all the invasive procedures of biopsies and feeding tubes is the right thing to do. I know that if I ever get to that point, I HOPE that someone will have the kindness to ease my suffering and end my dwindling life (hopefully it will be legal by then). That's just how I feel though, and I'm not you, and she's not my cat, and I do not want you to in any way think that I am judging you, or criticizing your actions. It's just that you asked for opinions so many times, and I held my tongue a few times, but your plea has finally given me the will to say what I know will probably be my unpopular opinion. Whatever you decide, PLEASE make sure it is the decision that your heart tells you is the RIGHT one, because I know what living with regret every day feels like, and I don't want anyone to feel that kind of pain! My sincerest wishes of peace and understanding go out to you and Akira! Jenn ~~~ Thank you for the suggestion...I have toldher numerous timesyet wonder if she doesn't believe me? Or if even my BF is complicating things by telling her no..even though in front of me and her he says its oktonight when I got home form work she looked so much worse...I want to do as she wants but yet I fear I cant stomach it...I feel so awful about it and then my BF really is making things worse on me b/c he wants to put her through the biopsy, feeding tube, and is playing on my confusion right now...and is saying "I told you so" about wanting to treat her...in more subtle ways (not really saying I told you so..in fact saying he isn't..but it sure comes across that way) I got an estimate form my vet...after a bit of pesteringit would be over 600$ just to start the feeding tube...and to perform the next steps of testing to see if she is even helpable..plus she would be in the hospital for a week or more to start with..and being put under for biopsy's and the insertion of the tube..I just don't know if it is worth it..to put her though it... No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 5/13/2005
Re: RE..Update Akira
Re: euthanasia, everyone has their own take on it. I think it is ok to let Akira go on her own, and it sounds like there are still things she is enjoying, even if you are willing to help her at the point if/when she stops enjoying anything. But I do not see any harm in giving sub q fluids if it does not freak her out, and giving a shot of dexamethasone to see if it helps. Neither will hurt and they could make her much more comfortable. Many dying humans are on dexamethasone I have heard, as it increases feelings of physical and mental well-being. Given how long she has held on, though, I am also not sure that a test or two would be a bad idea to see if this is something she can actually survive. I can not see her, only you can, so you have a better idea. I did not think she had hope of surviving before you emailed how she is doing these last few days. I don't know if you remember what happened with Simon, but he seemed at least as close to death a month before he actually died. He could not walk or even hold himself up in the litter box-- I had to hold him in there, and he had not eaten or been fed for 3 days or drunk anything for 2 days. I loaded him up with steroids and then thought there was no hope and just stayed with him, thinking he would die, and all of a sudden one night he started drinking and eating and by the next day was walking around and jumping. He only had another month after that, but most of it was really good time-- eating, playing, cuddling, going outside, and even climbing up a carpeted wall into the ceiling (the first feline in the house to do that). I am not saying Akira could have a month, and I am not saying that everyone would or should think that a month is worth intervention of any kind, but I do want to convey to you that I and everyone on this list thought Simon was in the process of dying when some simple steroid shots pulled him out of it. He then got more chemo, of course, which is probably what gave him most of the month. Basically, I do not think that you are necessarily wrong in what you are thinking and what you are doing, but I do not think your boyfriend is necessarily wrong either. There might be things that could save her, or at least give her a little more quality time, but you can't know without trying them. It may be that she does not want that, that you do not want that, and/or that you can not afford it. I am just saying that it really might be possible. I have let several cats go without euthanasia, and have also done euthanasia right at the end when they clearly enter the last stage of dying (respiratory distress). I do not euthanize before that except in exceptional circumstances where it is clear something really horrible is about to happen. So I have seen a lot of last days. I personally have never seen the dying process take 10 days. Perhaps that is because I have given fluids, steroids, and feedings until they could not accept them anymore due to vomiting, etc., but it is usually pretty close to the end at that point. I may be wrong, as I only know what has happened to my own animals and clearly I have not seen everything, but it seems to me that if she is taking this long to die she has, or had, some reserves and really was not, and maybe is not, so close to death. I am not sure where that leaves anything, but I just wanted to counterbalance the suggestion to euthanize her. I am not saying that such suggestion is wrong; I just disagree with it because I have seen amazing rebounds, and what Akira is going through and doing makes it seem to me that the absence of food and water are probably what are making her the weakest right now. Prayers to you both, Michelle
