Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Resurrection of ffserver

[Michael Fritscher]

Hello Rostislav,

what are, in your oppinion, the biggest problems in ffserver? (I would
like to hear other oppinions a well ;-) ) Missing FATE and usage of
internal / deprecated API are known to me, but it seems that you have
more generic problems with ffserver?

Personally I must admit that I'm very confident with ffserver at the
user side of view. For me, the configuration style was easy to
unterstand and I didn't observed any crashes or problems - despite using
it with cygwin under Windows(!) and having 6 feeds in parallel. I think
the most applied usecase for ffserver is to use it as a streaming server
for webcams, for which many simple tutorials can be found on the web.
And this "just works" ;)

Best regards,
Michael
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Resurrection of ffserver

[Thomas Volkert]

On 17.09.2016 22:27, Rostislav Pehlivanov wrote:
>
>> Good day,
>>
>> I read the sad news about ffservers a few days ago and have already
>> written some mails to ffmpeg-user.
>>
>> I would like to step in to make ffserver maintainable and distributable
>> again, especially because of the many users depending on ffserver -
>> including myself. I'm capable of C and had made some tiny changes to ffmpeg
>> already, but I'm a beginner regarding the architecture and "unwritten
>> rules" of ffmpeg development. Additionally, I would like to discuss
>> strategic decisions with the main developers to avoid useless work.
>>
>>
>>
> I really think ffserver is better off being in a separate repository. That
> way there'd be some finer attention brought to keeping the API usable by
> external users too. Same with the rest of the programs.
> So yeah, if you want, just make a separate repository somewhere with only
> ffserver.c and a configure + makefile and try to make something better and
> usable.

This sounds very good.

Best regards,
Thomas.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Resurrection of ffserver

[Josh de Kock]

On 17/09/2016 22:22, Michael Fritscher wrote:

Hello,

The other programs will probably be exported elsewhere sometime in the
future, for now since ffserver is getting removed having it put someplace
else is a good starting point.

My idea was to have the 2 repositories "ffmpeg-main" with the libraries
and "ffmpeg-tools" with all of the ff* programs, to have a clear
seperation. Personally I think that having an own repo for every single
tool does not have much advantages. But it could be an idea to have the
ffmpeg-tools repo started with ffserver and let the other tools do the
move to this repo later.


I really like the idea of moving ffserver to another repo (and 
eventually the other tools), it would help for keeping API usage 
cleaner, and maybe highlight some cases where the API needs to be 
extended or changed etc.


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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Resurrection of ffserver

[Michael Fritscher]

Hello,
> The other programs will probably be exported elsewhere sometime in the
> future, for now since ffserver is getting removed having it put someplace
> else is a good starting point.
My idea was to have the 2 repositories "ffmpeg-main" with the libraries
and "ffmpeg-tools" with all of the ff* programs, to have a clear
seperation. Personally I think that having an own repo for every single
tool does not have much advantages. But it could be an idea to have the
ffmpeg-tools repo started with ffserver and let the other tools do the
move to this repo later.

Best regards,
Michael

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ZfT - Zentrum für Telematik e.V.
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Tel: +49 (931) 615 633 - 57
Fax: +49 (931) 615 633 - 11
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Resurrection of ffserver

[Lukasz Marek]

On 17.09.2016 23:10, Rostislav Pehlivanov wrote:

On 17 September 2016 at 22:04, Lukasz Marek 
wrote:

Yeah, no. You can hardly say ffserver is a perfect program right now, so
really moving it to another repo is hardly much of a change in terms of
functionality. Bisection won't matter if half the program needs to be
rewritten to make it good. And the future of ffm mux/demux is the same as
the future of ffserver.
And besides none of this even matters because ffserver's getting deleted.
You can't stop it. This was decided long ago. It's in the news. It won't
get better overnight. This email thread is now about whether someone wants
to maintain it somewhere else, which doesn't concern the project other than
having people who are interested in contributing to something like that.


I didn't know it is decided to delete it. In such case I have no 
objections.

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Resurrection of ffserver

[Rostislav Pehlivanov]

On 17 September 2016 at 21:34, Michael Fritscher <
michael.fritsc...@telematik-zentrum.de> wrote:

> Hello Rostislav,
> > I really think ffserver is better off being in a separate repository.
> That
> > way there'd be some finer attention brought to keeping the API usable by
> > external users too. Same with the rest of the programs.
> So, if I unterstand you correctly, your vision is to move all ff*
> programs to external repositories (or one) for a better seperation of
> library and tools/programs? Personally, I think that could be a good
> idea - but way out of my scope ;-) I don't want to make a such big
> disruption as my first action to ffmpeg *g*
>
> Best regards,
> Michael
>
> --
> ZfT - Zentrum für Telematik e.V.
> Michael Fritscher
> Magdalene-Schoch-Straße 5
> 97074 Würzburg
> Tel: +49 (931) 615 633 - 57
> Fax: +49 (931) 615 633 - 11
> Email: michael.fritsc...@telematik-zentrum.de
> Web: http://www.telematik-zentrum.de
>
> Vorstand:
> Prof. Dr. Klaus Schilling, Hans-Joachim Leistner
> Sitz: Gerbrunn
> USt.-ID Nr.: DE 257 244 580, Steuer-Nr.:  257/111/70203
> Amtsgericht Würzburg, Vereinsregister-Nr.: VR 200 167
>
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The other programs will probably be exported elsewhere sometime in the
future, for now since ffserver is getting removed having it put someplace
else is a good starting point.
It's simpler than you might think, since all you need right now is to cut
enough from ffserver.c to make it compile with just the regular library
headers. All you need then is a makefile and you'd be good.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Resurrection of ffserver

[Lukasz Marek]

On 17.09.2016 22:27, Rostislav Pehlivanov wrote:

On 17 September 2016 at 20:58, Michael Fritscher <
michael.fritsc...@telematik-zentrum.de> wrote:


Good day,

I read the sad news about ffservers a few days ago and have already
written some mails to ffmpeg-user.

I would like to step in to make ffserver maintainable and distributable
again, especially because of the many users depending on ffserver -
including myself. I'm capable of C and had made some tiny changes to ffmpeg
already, but I'm a beginner regarding the architecture and "unwritten
rules" of ffmpeg development. Additionally, I would like to discuss
strategic decisions with the main developers to avoid useless work.


I really think ffserver is better off being in a separate repository. That
way there'd be some finer attention brought to keeping the API usable by
external users too. Same with the rest of the programs.
So yeah, if you want, just make a separate repository somewhere with only
ffserver.c and a configure + makefile and try to make something better and
usable.


I don't want to declare my statement here what should be done, but there 
is one more thing you didn't mention. ffserver depends on some specific 
components located inside ffmpeg libraries. At least on ffm mux/demux. 
They cannot be moved. The problem is, people sometimes opens ticket with 
error report like that: "I used version X, released about year ago and 
it worked fine. Now I upgraded and it doesn't work" Keeping it 
everything in one repo allows you to use bisection to find where the 
problem were introduced. Where you keep it in separate repositories it 
become much more complex. Now when you move back in repo history, you 
know all tools will compile (unless some commits are pushed in wrong 
order), when you have more repositories then you have to correlate it.


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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Resurrection of ffserver

[Michael Fritscher]

Hello Rostislav,
> I really think ffserver is better off being in a separate repository. That
> way there'd be some finer attention brought to keeping the API usable by
> external users too. Same with the rest of the programs.
So, if I unterstand you correctly, your vision is to move all ff*
programs to external repositories (or one) for a better seperation of
library and tools/programs? Personally, I think that could be a good
idea - but way out of my scope ;-) I don't want to make a such big
disruption as my first action to ffmpeg *g*

Best regards,
Michael

-- 
ZfT - Zentrum für Telematik e.V.
Michael Fritscher
Magdalene-Schoch-Straße 5
97074 Würzburg
Tel: +49 (931) 615 633 - 57
Fax: +49 (931) 615 633 - 11
Email: michael.fritsc...@telematik-zentrum.de
Web: http://www.telematik-zentrum.de

Vorstand:
Prof. Dr. Klaus Schilling, Hans-Joachim Leistner
Sitz: Gerbrunn
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Resurrection of ffserver

[Rostislav Pehlivanov]

On 17 September 2016 at 20:58, Michael Fritscher <
michael.fritsc...@telematik-zentrum.de> wrote:

> Good day,
>
> I read the sad news about ffservers a few days ago and have already
> written some mails to ffmpeg-user.
>
> I would like to step in to make ffserver maintainable and distributable
> again, especially because of the many users depending on ffserver -
> including myself. I'm capable of C and had made some tiny changes to ffmpeg
> already, but I'm a beginner regarding the architecture and "unwritten
> rules" of ffmpeg development. Additionally, I would like to discuss
> strategic decisions with the main developers to avoid useless work.
>
>
>
I really think ffserver is better off being in a separate repository. That
way there'd be some finer attention brought to keeping the API usable by
external users too. Same with the rest of the programs.
So yeah, if you want, just make a separate repository somewhere with only
ffserver.c and a configure + makefile and try to make something better and
usable.
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[FFmpeg-devel] Resurrection of ffserver

[Michael Fritscher]

Good day,

I read the sad news about ffservers a few days ago and have already written 
some mails to ffmpeg-user.

I would like to step in to make ffserver maintainable and distributable again, 
especially because of the many users depending on ffserver - including myself. 
I'm capable of C and had made some tiny changes to ffmpeg already, but I'm a 
beginner regarding the architecture and "unwritten rules" of ffmpeg 
development. Additionally, I would like to discuss strategic decisions with the 
main developers to avoid useless work. 

Clement already gave my a list of todos:
  * FATE integration
  * Kill using of internal API / headers (the libavformat/*.h seem to be most 
urgent - leaving only avformat.h)
  * Kill using of deprecated API
  * Long time maintainment

I would be more then happy if there would be some commitment that ffserver 
could stay if these todos are fulfilled.
I'll try to be rather conservative, at least for the first time until I feel 
more comfortable with the code, the architecture and the workflows. Ideas for 
better configuration style (honestly, personally I like the current style) etc. 
can be done when the basic work is done ;-)

I already looked around a bit and have a few questions:

About using internal APIs:
One troublesome thing seems to be the rtsp server. ffserver seems to do much of 
the rtsp server himself, but uses e.g. RTSPMessageHeader from 
libavformat/rtsp.h. I see four possibilities:

1. Leave it as-is.
2. Copy the definitions to ffserver.
3. Use the official API. But if I read 
http://www.ffmpeg.org/ffmpeg-protocols.html#rtsp correctly, libavformat can 
only act as a RTSP-client (but both sending and receiving)?
4. If this is not possible, make an "official" RTSP server related API.

For possibilities 3 and 4 I would need some support:
For 3. some insight how to use the API (as I said, I found nothing about a RTSP 
server in the library).
For 4. I would need some advice where to put the API and how the API should 
look like. E.g. can I use the rtsp_* functions in ffserver.c as a base? Should 
it be completely different?

I can live with all of the 4 mentioned solutions - but I want to have an 
opinion of some main developers ;-)

Regarding deprecated API: Can I rely on the @deprecated flag or is there a list?

Best regards,
Michael Fritscher

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Michael Fritscher
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Tel: +49 (931) 615 633 - 57
Fax: +49 (931) 615 633 - 11
Email: michael.fritsc...@telematik-zentrum.de
Web: http://www.telematik-zentrum.de

Vorstand:
Prof. Dr. Klaus Schilling, Hans-Joachim Leistner
Sitz: Gerbrunn
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