Re: [Finale] Orchestral Cues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As of Finale 2007 there is a new alternate notation called blank notation with rests. With this you can create a staff style that hides the cues (in any layer) and displays a default whole rest. Sounds like this is what you're looking for. How do you get a whole rest (mandatory, AFAIK, if the visible notes are a cue) in the part? I always put in a real one (WinFin 2004). -- Ken Moore ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT: choir+piano layout
hi, i don't work with voice very much, wonder if anyone can let me know what the standard formats for SATB+piano might be. and what percentage reduction do you usually use? are there usually separate piano and choir scores? if i use the format i was planning (9.5x12.5) i can get 2 systems per page. what font size (fixed?) do you use for the lyrics? any suggestions for examples i can look at online would be appreciated. would appreciate any feedback, i simply don't gave time to go to a library to check this out for myself. cheers. -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Song Book recommendations
If You want to place several text lines (verses) under the same staff (melody line) you have to put the text for each verse in it's own verse (in the lyrics edit window), otherwise all the textlines will be placed in the same position. So conclusion is text belonging to the same verse will always (at least in scroll edit) be written in on the same line. Den 28/07/2007 kl. 19.04 skrev Robert Patterson: I have not made much use of the lyrics feature of finale up until now. But I am starting a songbook, and if some one wants to let me know again about some of the issues around lyrics, I would appreciate it very much. I plan to combine all the songs into a single Finale file, unless I hear it is a really bad idea. 1. Should I create a separate verse for the text of each song, or should I place all the text in one verse? If they are separate, won't I end up fiddling with base lines a great deal? 2. What is this hyphenation bug and word extension bug I keep reading about here? 3. Is there some way (plugin or program) to recreate all the correct hyphenations and extensions if they get messed up? I know that my Mass Copy plugin does not work with hyphenation and word extensions. I am working to rectify that as best as possible. If there is an easy way to repair them, that will make my life easier. -- Robert Patterson http://RobertGPatterson.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale regards Stig Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] +4539902526/+4526212425 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Orchestral Cues
How do you get a whole rest (mandatory, AFAIK, if the visible notes are a cue) in the part? I always put in a real one (WinFin 2004). set up 2 styles: score style: apply to layer 1; blank notation with rests; uncheck show notes/items in other layers part style: apply to layer 1; blank notation; check show notes/items in other layers layer 4: cue notes layer 3: whole rest to show in part set metatool-s/p for score/part style; apply part style in linked parts, it will replace the score style automatically. -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Song Book recommendations
On Jul 28, 2007, at 1:04 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: I have not made much use of the lyrics feature of finale up until now. But I am starting a songbook, and if some one wants to let me know again about some of the issues around lyrics, I would appreciate it very much. I plan to combine all the songs into a single Finale file, unless I hear it is a really bad idea. Make sure you know the order before you start work, as changing the order of tunes is likely to cause the most problems. Unless you save all the page stuff for the very end. 1. Should I create a separate verse for the text of each song, or should I place all the text in one verse? If they are separate, won't I end up fiddling with base lines a great deal? Assuming each song has only one line of lyrics, I would put them all in the same verse. You are going to mess around with baselines anyway, since music that never descends below the staff needs different lyric baselines than music that does go beneath the staff. Set a basic baseline, then adjust system by system (3rd arrow from the left) near the end of the process. 2. What is this hyphenation bug and word extension bug I keep reading about here? Say two syllables separated by a hyphen are close together. If space is very tight, the hyphen could be removed if it interferes too much with spacing and causes collisions. Finale started doing that for you (I think) in 2006, but in 2007 the default spacing is tight enough for Finale to take out a bunch of hyphens that probably should have stayed. Furthermore, when the syllables are very close together, we would like some leading white space removed before the hyphen, but that doesn't happen, it just crams up close to the next syllable. Furthermore, some hyphens that show up onscreen get removed somewhere during the printing process, due to some flaw in the WYSIWYG stuff, so you have to print, check, add some hyphens back in manually, and even them sometimes a hyphen comes back by itself so you have TWO hyphens slightly overlapped. There is some problem with hyphens over system breaks too, but I am so pissed off about the disappearing hyphens that I haven't even looked to see if it is still there in 2008, or even what it is. Word extensions seems to work OK for me, but maybe I've never seen the circumstances where the problem occurs. Anyone care to elaborate? 3. Is there some way (plugin or program) to recreate all the correct hyphenations and extensions if they get messed up? The problem is convincing Finale what is the correct thing to do, and Finale is notoriously pigheaded. 8-) I sometimes manually space measures, nudging bit by bit until a hyphen comes back, but I find I do that a lot in vocal music anyway. I don't know of any mass method. I sometimes remove a hyphen entirely from the Edit Lyrics window and add it back in on the score as a note expression. At least this method ensures that it stays where I put it! I know that my Mass Copy plugin does not work with hyphenation and word extensions. I am working to rectify that as best as possible. If there is an easy way to repair them, that will make my life easier. Anything you can come up with to alleviate the situation would help us, but it would also take pressure off MakeMusic to FIX the darn things! Maybe some others can shed more light. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: choir+piano layout
On Jul 29, 2007, at 7:52 AM, shirling neueweise wrote: hi, i don't work with voice very much, wonder if anyone can let me know what the standard formats for SATB+piano might be. and what percentage reduction do you usually use? are there usually separate piano and choir scores? if i use the format i was planning (9.5x12.5) i can get 2 systems per page. I usually go by guess and by gosh for staff sizes and spacing (I can hear you cringing from over here!) but two systems on that size paper seems very large for choral parts. The largest choral parts I have ever seen are 8.5 x 11, and the music is usually smaller than on an orchestral part, since the chorus are holding the music a foot and a half from their faces and the paper can't be so big as to be unwieldy. Two systems of SATB+piano sounds very reasonable for folio- sized music. Piano (even a piano reduction, in the case of orchestra works) on the same part as the chorus is normal. They are not usually separated, as the chorus gets important cues from the piano part and the pianist is usually a répétiteur who needs to know exactly what the chorus is singing. what font size (fixed?) do you use for the lyrics? Big controversy here. Bigger fonts, which everyone cries for (especially post 40-years-of-age eyes) cause spacing problems. Smaller fonts cause rehearsal problems and large sections of singers singing Fnuh, fnuh, fnay, fnuh because they can't see the words. I vaccillate between 12 and 14 points at 75-80% reduction (don't know what that is fixed size, maybe 10 and 12?) and sometimes 13, depending on how dense it is and if I have to gain a bit of space to fit an extra measure in some systems or can relax a bit. Obviously I keep the same size for the whole work. any suggestions for examples i can look at online would be appreciated. I'll forward a commercial sheet to you offlist, which should give you an idea. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: choir+piano layout
On 29 Jul 2007 at 9:29, Christopher Smith wrote: The largest choral parts I have ever seen are 8.5 x 11 Commercially printed choral music is always octavo size, which is, of course, smaller than 8.5 x 11. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: choir+piano layout
On Jul 29, 2007, at 12:55 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 29 Jul 2007 at 9:29, Christopher Smith wrote: The largest choral parts I have ever seen are 8.5 x 11 Commercially printed choral music is always octavo size, which is, of course, smaller than 8.5 x 11. Yes, I had said folio in my post (not quoted completely above), but I meant octavo, which is not the same thing. But some publishers ARE printing 8.5 X 11 parts for some large works, flying in the face of tradition, and many non-published arrangers and composers print choral parts in 8.5 x 11 sizes, which was more my point. 9.5 X 12.5 is practically unheard-of in the choral world. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
re: [Finale] Song Book recommendations
Interspersed below, a couple more comments on your songbook project. Marilyn --- I have not made much use of the lyrics feature of finale up until now. But I am starting a songbook, and if some one wants to let me know again about some of the issues around lyrics, I would appreciate it very much. I plan to combine all the songs into a single Finale file, unless I hear it is a really bad idea. 1. Should I create a separate verse for the text of each song, or should I place all the text in one verse? If they are separate, won't I end up fiddling with base lines a great deal? If each song has only one stanza, then you could use a single verse for all the lyrics. If there are two or more stanzas for any song, then you need additional lyric verses. 2. What is this hyphenation bug and word extension bug I keep reading about here? --- This bug is really annoying. One way I've worked around it is to use spaces and my own (i.e., keyboard-entered) hyphens. If the word in the lyric is, for example, mainly, I type main-[space] followed by ly to make sure Finale doesn't do things like eliminate the hyphen, jumble up the word so it's illegible, or whatever else. That's of course a little more work, but easier than fighting with the application. - 3. Is there some way (plugin or program) to recreate all the correct hyphenations and extensions if they get messed up? -- One thing I always do as a backup is create one or two unused lyric verses, in which I put the original text (as it would read in poetry or prose, minus hyphens and mid-word breaks) and another unused verse containing the text broken up into syllables with hyphens entered by myself. In older versions of Finale especially, some interesting things occasionally happened to my texts if I entered them either by the click assignment or type into score methods [partly because I was composing, not copying, so I often made changes to my text handling]. By keeping verses 1 and 2 for backup use, and copying those texts to verses 3 . . . onward, I had both backup and working copies of the lyrics. I know that my Mass Copy plugin does not work with hyphenation and word extensions. I am working to rectify that as best as possible. If there is an easy way to repair them, that will make my life easier. -- Robert Patterson http://RobertGPatterson.com Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Text Blocks in the Right Place
They should be able to be attached to anything (and should -- repeating this for the umpteenth time) *show* the ownership through some sort of rubber-band indicator. Hold down Alt-Ctrl and click on an expression, it shows the note it's attached to. Jonathan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: choir+piano layout
Jef wrote: hi, i don't work with voice very much, wonder if anyone can let me know what the standard formats for SATB+piano might be. and what percentage reduction do you usually use? are there usually separate piano and choir scores? if i use the format i was planning (9.5x12.5) i can get 2 systems per page. The standard format will depend somewhat upon exactly what you are doing, but to start, (not only as one who engraves choral music, but as one who regularly sings from it) I would strongly advise not using 9.5 x 12.5 inch paper! This is a very nonstandard size for choral music, and will cause choir librarians and choristers no end of headaches. Octavo (about 7 x 10 inches) was the traditional size for choral music, though more recently the increasing prevalence of desk-top publishing has made letter sized scores (8.5 x 11 in the US; A4 in the UK and EU) more common. The standard layout for choral music (SATB + Accomp) is a six-staff system; the top four staves grouped with a bracket for the voices , the bottom two grouped into a grand staff with a brace. This arrangement is nearly universal, even for music intended to be accompanied by an organ, which is most often notated on two, rather than three staves. what font size (fixed?) do you use for the lyrics? Traditionally, typeface sizes for lyrics were from 8 to 10 point, depending upon publisher, and period; if one intends an octavo sized score, this is still a good final size for the lyrics. My practice is to use a system reduction between 60 and 70 percent for choral music if I expect the score to be printed on octavo sized paper, and to use 70 to 75 percent for choral music intended to be printed on letter sized paper. As far as selecting the size of the lyric fonts, I prefer not to used fixed font size. I start with the planned size the I want the font to appear at in the final product, and divide that size by the percentage of reduction. Thus, if I want the final size of the type to be 12 point, and I am using a system reduction of 75 percent, I divide 12 by .75, which yields a dividend of 16, which is the point size I use for lyrics. Where the dividend is not an integer (10 points divided by .60, for example) I follow standard rounding rules. any suggestions for examples i can look at online would be appreciated. Three resources come to mind: 1) The Choral public domain library; 2) The Sibley Library of Eastman School of Music in Rochester is scanning much of it's public domain material, and making downloads available; and 3) The Music Memory project of the Library of Congress has quite a selection of old music scanned available for download or review. I will concede at the front end, that these are not ideal sources for engraving reference. The materials in the latter two sources are old--at least 80 years, and some twice that, and it should be taken to account that they hardly represent the state of the art in choral music engraving (though in fact, most of the choral materials in the latter two repositories are typeset, not engraved). The scores on the former source are contributed with the idea of printing by typical desktop publishing, and are mostly printed as letter sized. Also, quite candidly, the engraving standards vary from one item to the next. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: choir+piano layout
thanks for the help everyone, yeah i've re-done the layout for letter-size, which has becvome the standard for a whole range of formats actually. -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Text Blocks in the Right Place
On Jul 28, 2007, at 11:43 PM, Jonathan Smith wrote: Hold down Alt-Ctrl and click on an expression, it shows the note it's attached to. How cool is that? Thanks, Jonathan! Dick H ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Text Blocks in the Right Place
At 05:25 PM 7/29/2007 -0700, Dick Hauser wrote: On Jul 28, 2007, at 11:43 PM, Jonathan Smith wrote: Hold down Alt-Ctrl and click on an expression, it shows the note it's attached to. How cool is that? Not very cool. I almost never use it. I want to see what's hooked to what, not go clicking everywhere and guessing. When I move a note with special tools, I want to see what's attached first, not have to reprint a page because something moved somewhere. I want a view that shows the associations. Graphire had it since the beginning, and it was one of the features that made the program so easy to use. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Courtesy accidentals problems
Forgive this second post, but I am getting desperate. Every time I open older files, like one created with FinMac2005 with FinMac2008, I get Courtesy naturals before accidental appear later in the measure, and I get parenthesis on accidentals where they shouldn't be. This has been a major headache. Does anyone know what is going on? -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
