Re: [Finale] new and improved text tool

2005-02-24 Thread Jari Williamsson
David W. Fenton wrote:
What I *would* support is if the text expression dialog's text box at 
the top were instead replaced with the standard Finale text editor. 
Then you could put anything in the text expression that you could put 
into the text editor, and the user interface would be exactly the 
same in both places. Text expresssions would then be text blocks with 
additional expression-only properties added to them. 
This is exactly how expression works in Fin2004 and later.
Best regards,
Jari Williamsson
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Re: [Finale] Condensed Lyric Font

2005-02-24 Thread Minke Hylarides
I sometimes use Minion Condensed. It is OK for tight lyrics, but personally
I don't like the looks for further text use.
There is also a normal Minion.
But I don't know if this is a freeware font...

Good luck,
Minke


- Original Message - 
From: Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 2:28 AM
Subject: [Finale] Condensed Lyric Font


 Hi all,

 Does anyone know of a decent, free, *condensed* Times lookalike font
 that would be suitable for lyrics?  I know I can buy Times Condensed,
 but perhaps there's a good freeware alternative?

 - Darcy
 -
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Brooklyn, NY

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Re: [Finale] new and improved text tool

2005-02-24 Thread dhbailey
Kurt Gnos wrote:
At 09:15 23.02.2005, you wrote:
It's a nice list, but I think that getting compact and reliable PS, 
EPS, and PDF output would be sufficient for one year's upgrade.  If 
this is supposed to be a tool for publishing, it has got to be able to 
output in the principle formats for publication.

Amen! Just my point of view! I have sworn to myself if they won't do it 
in the next upgrade, I will swich to Sibelius...

Kurt 
Before taking that step, if you know somebody who has Sibelius, try it 
out to be sure you'll like it.  It would be sad to be able to get those 
formats of output but to be unable to produce the output you want or are 
hired to produce.

I'm not saying you won't be able to (I don't know what sort of music you 
are engraving), just that you should be sure you will be able to work 
with Sibelius.  It is as idiosyncratic in its ways of forcing you to 
work as Finale is.

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Re: [Finale] new and improved text tool

2005-02-24 Thread Johannes Gebauer
On the other hand I am pretty sure the feature set for 2k6 has already 
been decided anyway, so we are talking about 2k7, maybe 2k8, so that 
really shouldn't be a reason.

Johannes
Kurt Gnos wrote:
At 09:15 23.02.2005, you wrote:
It's a nice list, but I think that getting compact and reliable PS, 
EPS, and PDF output would be sufficient for one year's upgrade.  If 
this is supposed to be a tool for publishing, it has got to be able to 
output in the principle formats for publication.

Amen! Just my point of view! I have sworn to myself if they won't do it 
in the next upgrade, I will swich to Sibelius...

Kurt 

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Re: [Finale] new and improved text tool

2005-02-24 Thread Johannes Gebauer

Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
Have a look at this:
http://maltedmedia.com/photos/toolbar.gif
It still escapes me why this kind of thing cannot live happily in two
different tools.
Before the expression tool was improved I could see that there was some
overlap between measure text blocks and measure text expressions,
however, all these problems are now indeed covered in the expression
tool in my opinion, and I see no need to merge the two tools. That is
not to say that both tools could be vastly improved.
Coming back to the original feature request, although you can make any
feature request you like, I don't really see the benefit of making one
like this, since firstly it is unlikely that MM will actually make such
a major interface change and at the same time merge tools (to which a
lot of people have either objected or don't really follow the need for
it), and secondly I sort of feel that merging the two tools is going to
make things worse. In fact, I fear that by the end we will have a merged 
tool with the same design problems we have already, and none of the 
shortcomings of the text block tool fixed. Given that choice I'd rather 
see major improvements to the text block tool, and a better selection 
dialog for expressions, then let MM invest their resources into merging 
the two without any benefit that I can see.
I would like to see the kind of toolbar you invented for the two tools,
of course, but separately. The kind of text I type into the text tool I
would never want to use in the expressions tool, and vice versa. This
was a little different before expressions allowed multiple fonts and
multi-line items, but now that that problem is solved I simply use
expressions, and only use measure attached textblocks in very specific
cases, which do not overlap with the expression tool.

Johannes
Johannes
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Re: [Finale] Condensed Lyric Font

2005-02-24 Thread Mark D Lew
On Feb 23, 2005, at 5:28 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Does anyone know of a decent, free, *condensed* Times lookalike font 
that would be suitable for lyrics?  I know I can buy Times Condensed, 
but perhaps there's a good freeware alternative?
I like Minion Condensed a lot, but it's not free.  I've looked around 
for a good condensed traditional serif -- or even a non-condensed serif 
that had a narrow set -- that was free but I couldn't find any I was 
satisfied with.

In my experience, most fonts that can be downloaded for free are 
gimmicky display fonts.  There are very few basic serif faces that are 
free, and of those about half of them are crap.

mdl
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Re: [Finale] new and improved text tool

2005-02-24 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
At 11:58 AM 2/24/05 +0100, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
It still escapes me why this kind of thing cannot live happily in two
different tools.

jef suggested two.

My followup suggestion was to combine at least seven tools (text,
expression, articulation, chord, lyrics, clef, time signature) and let any
item be assigned any feature.

No matter. It was just a wish. Maybe somebody at Finale will notice. As I
said to Noel, My only reason to jump in was to suggest re-thinking the
*entirety* of these entries and perhaps get a unified and transparent
palette out of it as a nice consequence.

(I've stopped with F2K3 because later versions are victimware. If I'm
eventually gonna have to buy victimware anyway, I might as well make
suggestions while I shop around!)

Dennis


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[Finale] EPS

2005-02-24 Thread Richard Yates
I am, again, writing to MM about this. I hope others will also, perhaps even
those who do not have a need for this feature but recognize the importance
of the problem in the big picture of Finale's long term viability.

Richard Yates

- Original Message - 
From: d. collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool


shirling  neueweise écrit:
dennis, it seems to me that people mention broken EPS quite often...

Broken EPS export is mentioned quite often by myself and a few others. But
I don't recall much talk about broken EPS import. Which means on PC we have
no way of importing professional-quality graphics into our scores. There is
no work-around for this, and it's a major problem. These things have been
broken for at least five years now. I'm not interested in any improvements
of existing features, nor in any new features, until the broken things are
fixed. As a few others, I'm seriously considering Sibelius if MakeMusic
confirm they don't intend to take care of this.

I know we can't all agree on what we would like to see in the next edition.
And since MM probably has some kind of priority scheme based on the number
of complaints or requests, I hope many will write and demand EPS
compatibility.

Dennis


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[Finale] beaming

2005-02-24 Thread Clarissa Cox
I'm transcribing a song that transitions from 4/4 time to 6/8 time.  For 
some reason, the eighth notes aren't being beamed together (into 2 sets of 
3) like they normally are in 6/8 time.  Anyone know of a quick fix?

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Re: [Finale] Question About Staff Order

2005-02-24 Thread John Howell
At 5:46 PM -0500 2/23/05, Jacki Barineau wrote:
Hi - I'm notating a song that has a vocal staff and an alto recorder staff.
Is there a rule about which staff should be the top one in each system?
The recorder begins the song, then the vocals take over, then the recorder
re-enters in the middle of the song...
Thanks!
Jacki
Don't know about a rule, but my wife and I would put the obbligato 
part above the vocal.

John


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Re: [Finale] Notation for Recorder

2005-02-24 Thread John Howell
At 6:09 PM -0500 2/23/05, Jacki Barineau wrote:
Hi, Everyone - I have another question about notating for alto recorder!
Does anyone know how you notate those slides they do - like when they hit
a low note and kind of float up to a higher note?  Or when they hit a note
and kind of droop down to the next note.  Don't know if I'm explaining
this right, but it's done frequently in Celtic style recorder playing!  I
have an mp3 file (18 seconds) that would show what I'm talking about but I
wasn't sure if it's okay to post attachments to this list!
Thanks for any help with this!  I've never notated for recorder before, so
between that and learning Finale(!) - I just figured out how to do the grace
notes, but just wasn't sure how to notate these slide things...
It isn't part of Baroque recorder technique, but I'd suggest using 
the jazz signs for pull up and fall off to get the idea across.

Also, just to make sure you know, unless your player asks for 
something else it should be notated in treble clef at concert pitch 
(not transposed) in the octave from the F above middle C to the F two 
octaves higher (F1-F3 Helmholtz notation).  That way a Celtic flutist 
can read from the same part.  Alto players reading from vocal 
notation read from notation an octave lower and play it up an octave, 
but solo parts are almost always notated at pitch.

John

- Jacki
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Re: [Finale] beaming

2005-02-24 Thread Christopher Smith
For time signature, choose 2 as the number of beats (not 6) and dotted 
quarter as the denominator value. This will cause eighths to be beams 
to the time signature. 6/8 is really 2/dotted quarter after all. When 
you make the change, choose Rebeam music for the beams to change, 
otherwise only the NEWLY entered music will be affected.

Christopher
On Feb 24, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Clarissa Cox wrote:
I'm transcribing a song that transitions from 4/4 time to 6/8 time.  
For some reason, the eighth notes aren't being beamed together (into 2 
sets of 3) like they normally are in 6/8 time.  Anyone know of a quick 
fix?

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Re: [Finale] beaming

2005-02-24 Thread Steve Gibons
to add,
Exactly as in: http://earthunit.net/images/timesig.jpg
steve
On Feb 24, 2005, at 10:04 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
For time signature, choose 2 as the number of beats (not 6) and dotted 
quarter as the denominator value. This will cause eighths to be beams 
to the time signature. 6/8 is really 2/dotted quarter after all. When 
you make the change, choose Rebeam music for the beams to change, 
otherwise only the NEWLY entered music will be affected.

Christopher
On Feb 24, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Clarissa Cox wrote:
I'm transcribing a song that transitions from 4/4 time to 6/8 time.  
For some reason, the eighth notes aren't being beamed together (into 
2 sets of 3) like they normally are in 6/8 time.  Anyone know of a 
quick fix?

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Re: [Finale] beaming

2005-02-24 Thread Jari Williamsson
Christopher Smith wrote:
For time signature, choose 2 as the number of beats (not 6) and dotted 
quarter as the denominator value. This will cause eighths to be beams to 
the time signature. 6/8 is really 2/dotted quarter after all. When you 
make the change, choose Rebeam music for the beams to change, otherwise 
only the NEWLY entered music will be affected.
...only for ancient Finale versions. ;-)
In recent versions, it's faster to select 6/8 from the contextual menu 
and then rebeam. This version of 6/8 will automatically group in 3.

Best regards,
Jari Williamsson
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[Finale] Re: Condensed Lyric Font

2005-02-24 Thread Ryan Beard
Darcy,

In his Finale Productivity Kit, Bill Duncan includes
two good lyric fonts: TimesLyrics and TimesHelvetica.
They are condensed, and slightly bold. My clients seem
to like the TimesLyrics. Due to your past discussions
of chord symbols, I think you already have this kit. 

Ryan



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Re: [Finale] Notation for Recorder

2005-02-24 Thread Jacki Barineau
on 2/23/05 6:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 When I've come across this type of thing it hasn't been notated, it's
 something you add as an improvised ornament.
  
 Would the standard glissando mark be used for this?
  
 I've seen the indication bend in some music which wants this type of thing,
 but this was jazzy type stuff, not Celtic.

Thanks, Lawrence...  I bet you're right about the gliss. Mark for the
slides.  So where you've seen the bend indication - is it just the word
bend itself, or is there a symbol for this?

Thanks again, everyone!

Jacki


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Re: [Finale] Question About Staff Order

2005-02-24 Thread Jacki Barineau
on 2/23/05 6:01 PM, dhbailey wrote:

 Generally I've seen this with the recorder on top (I just checked a
 German edition of a Handel Cantata for soprano and recorder and
 keyboard) with the vocal line next, and the keyboard (or other
 instrumental accompaniment) parts underneath that.

Thanks, David - That makes sense!

Jacki


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Re: [Finale] Notation for Recorder

2005-02-24 Thread Jacki Barineau
on 2/24/05 10:58 AM, John Howell wrote:

 It isn't part of Baroque recorder technique, but I'd suggest using
 the jazz signs for pull up and fall off to get the idea across.
 
 Also, just to make sure you know, unless your player asks for
 something else it should be notated in treble clef at concert pitch
 (not transposed) in the octave from the F above middle C to the F two
 octaves higher (F1-F3 Helmholtz notation).  That way a Celtic flutist
 can read from the same part.  Alto players reading from vocal
 notation read from notation an octave lower and play it up an octave,
 but solo parts are almost always notated at pitch.

Thanks for the tips, John - I appreciate it!

Jacki


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Re: [Finale] Notation for Recorder

2005-02-24 Thread YATESLAWRENCE



Hi Jacki,

It just said "bend" in italics. I think sometimes there was a diagonal line 
too . I must admit I've not seen it very often as I tend to stay away from 
jazz in case it makes me ill. :-)

All the best,

Lawrence

"þaes 
ofereode - þisses swa 
maeg"http://lawrenceyates.co.uk
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Re: [Finale] Notation for Recorder

2005-02-24 Thread Jacki Barineau
Title: Re: [Finale] Notation for Recorder



on 2/24/05 1:18 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

It just said bend in italics. I think sometimes there was a diagonal line too . I must admit I've not seen it very often as I tend to stay away from jazz in case it makes me ill. :-)


LOL!! :)

Thanks, Lawrence  that should make sense I would think... (the bend part I mean!)



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Re: [Finale] new and improved...

2005-02-24 Thread Noel Stoutenburg
Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On the other hand I am pretty sure the feature set for 2k6 has already 
been decided anyway, so we are talking about 2k7, maybe 2k8, so that 
really shouldn't be a reason. 
I'm guessing that the 2k6 upgrade is in well in Beta, that the 
programmers meetings are devoted to deciding what to put in the upgrades 
for 2k7, 2k8, and beginning to consider 2k9, as well.

ns
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Re: [Finale] new and improved...

2005-02-24 Thread Owain Sutton

d. collins wrote:
Noel Stoutenburg écrit:
I'm guessing that the 2k6 upgrade is in well in Beta, that the 
programmers meetings are devoted to deciding what to put in the 
upgrades for 2k7, 2k8, and beginning to consider 2k9, as well.

So, perhaps we can hope for EPS export and import in 2010. If we haven't 
all switched to Sibelius in the meantime.

Dennis


2012 by the time the post-release bugs are identified and corrected...
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Re: [Finale] Re: Condensed Lyric Font

2005-02-24 Thread Darcy James Argue
Hi Ryan,
I didn't buy the whole kit, just the fonts I wanted (the chord fonts 
and the enclosure fonts).  I don't think the lyric fonts are available 
separately -- and, of course, I was hoping for a solution I wouldn't 
have to pay for.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 24 Feb 2005, at 11:49 AM, Ryan Beard wrote:
Darcy,
In his Finale Productivity Kit, Bill Duncan includes
two good lyric fonts: TimesLyrics and TimesHelvetica.
They are condensed, and slightly bold. My clients seem
to like the TimesLyrics. Due to your past discussions
of chord symbols, I think you already have this kit.
Ryan

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Re: [Finale] new and improved text tool

2005-02-24 Thread Johannes Gebauer
David W. Fenton wrote:
Of course, I also seem to remember something about pre-defined 
vertical positioning having been added in a recent version of Finale, 
so I may be late with the idea.

Indeed. In fact, expression positioning goes far beyond anything 
articulation can offer. The two are different, and for a reason, imo.

Johannes
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Re: [Finale] Question About Staff Order Treason and true patriotism: Beethoven, Bonhoeffer, and Alberto Gonzales

2005-02-24 Thread Raymond Horton
Quoted from Sojourners, a weekly email-zine of spirituality, politics, 
and culture
http://www.sojo.net/

original with all formatting intact may be found at:
http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=news.display_archivesmode=current_opinionarticle=CO_050224_wylie-kellermann
posted by Raymond Horton
Bass Trombonist,
Louisville Orchestra

Treason and true patriotism: Beethoven, Bonhoeffer, and Alberto Gonzales
by Bill Wylie-Kellermann
We have for once learnt to see the great events of world history from 
below, from the perspective of the outcast, the suspects, the 
maltreated, the power-less, the oppressed, the reviled - in short, from 
the perspective of those who suffer. Dietrich Bonhoeffer to Hans von 
Dohnanyi and friends, Christmas, 1942. Letters and Papers from Prison.

Don't think me an opera buff. The whole scenery is new to me, but a 
current production of Fidelio in Chicago resonates with vivid irony in 
history and our own political moment. Conducted by the son of a resister 
executed by the Nazis, and narrating the liberation of a political 
prisoner from the dungeons of 18th-century Spain, it lights up the 
morning headlines, raising questions straight from the confirmation of 
Alberto Gonzales as attorney general. Christoph Von Dohnanyi is the 
maestro conducting. His father, Hans, is historically notorious for 
drawing Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the German theologian, into political 
resistance and even coup conspiracy against Hitler. Both were imprisoned 
and martyred before the war's end.

Fidelio is Beethoven's sole opera, with a tortured history all its own. 
The libretto recounts the intrigues of Leonore, wife of an imprisoned 
freedom fighter, Florestan. Disguised as a boy, Fidelio, she apprentices 
herself to the jailer and so manages to descend to the bowels of the 
prison, there reaching her husband with hope and protection sufficient 
to stay his death and enable his vindicated release.

Lyric Opera of Chicago's contemporary set evokes a drab generic 
totalitarianism, but - for those with eyes to see - its brown-shirted 
guards with their crates of automatic weapons and the riveted industrial 
beams of the exposed prison structure readily suggest the death houses 
of Germany in the '30s (though the prisoners' jumpsuits evoke even more 
the arid atmospherics of Abu Graib).

Christoph von Dohnanyi, currently the principal conductor of the London 
Philharmonic, was 13 when his parents were arrested and his father 
subsequently executed. He first conducted Fidelio post-war in his 20s, 
and though the opera is hardly a standard, he is perhaps its pre-eminent 
interpreter and current champion. The Lyric itself has a history with 
the opera, yet this current production is also at Dohnanyi's behest. One 
easily suspects a passionate drive at once interior, musical, and political.

A bit of history is pertinent. Hans von Dohnanyi was married to 
Bonhoeffer's sister, Christine. As a member of the Ministry of Justice, 
and eventually the Abwehr (German counterintelligence), he was privy to 
information about the doings, policies, and outrages of the Nazi regime. 
He actually kept a day-by-day account, a chronicle of scandal, 
detailing news of the atrocities against the Jews, the concentration 
camps, the torture and mistreatment of prisoners, attacks on church 
leaders, on homosexuals and others. The document came to serve several 
purposes. It certainly helped to convince potential or wavering 
dissidents of the realities of horror, but eventually it also was 
secreted to provide public explanation post facto for an assassination 
attempt. Instead, of course, when found by the Gestapo, it became part 
of the case against him. Yet it was for this very reason - Dohnanyi's 
access to information - that Bonhoeffer was himself more knowledgeable 
of the German situation and earlier on than ordinary newspaper readers.

Imagine the chronicle of scandal published akin to a Seymour Hersh 
exposé like one concerning Abu Graib or the pending moves against Iran. 
Would its news have turned a tide? But then again, do such scandalous 
exposés today?

These two Germans knew - and acted on their knowledge. In Bonhoeffer, 
the acclaimed documentary by Martin Doblmeier that premiered last year, 
Christoph is among those interviewed. They became political activists 
because it was the only way of fighting the system. Many people most 
likely didn't realize what Hitler already did in those days with 
absolutely stupid and fanatic racism. As a man who knew about these 
things, my father had absolutely to go against it. I would be ashamed if 
he hadn't done it.

When Hans von Dohnanyi was moved to the staff of the Abwehr, he 
successfully managed to get Bonhoeffer placed there as well. Now this 
was no small doing, nothing short of miraculous, as Bonhoeffer had been 
speaking and writing against the führer almost from day one. Witness, 
for example, the Barmen Declaration that he signed in 1934, 

[Finale] Re: new and improved text tool

2005-02-24 Thread Ken Moore
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] you write:
I am not against this, but I fail to see how I would benefit? There is 
no reason why I would want my title text blocks appear in the expression 
list, it would only convolut it more. OK, I know that you have ideas on 
how to get more organization into these lists.

I have been thinking about this several times now, and I still don't see 
why I would want text blocks and expressions be merged into one tool. In 
what way would I then get faster results? In what way does this increase 
our flexibility?

I would like to be able to reuse text blocks on more than one page in
different places (IIRC WinFin3.5 would do this).  In WinFin 2004, the
best I can do is copy their contents.  Also, in this version it is not
possible (or maybe I have just not discovered how) to select multiple
text block handles and move them all together, as it is with expressions
and some other objects.

-- 
Ken Moore
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web site: http://www.mooremusic.org.uk/
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Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool

2005-02-24 Thread Christopher Smith
On Feb 24, 2005, at 1:49 PM, Ken Moore wrote:
I would like to be able to reuse text blocks on more than one page in
different places (IIRC WinFin3.5 would do this).  In WinFin 2004, the
best I can do is copy their contents.  Also, in this version it is not
possible (or maybe I have just not discovered how) to select multiple
text block handles and move them all together, as it is with 
expressions
and some other objects.

I can't help you with the first, but to select and move more than one 
text block at a time, shift-click their handles, or drag around the 
handles to select several at once. You can then drag or nudge them at 
will, and restore default positioning by hitting the back arrow above 
the Enter key (Clear for Mac).

If you don't mind creating the text block in the expression tool 
instead of the Text Tool, you can reuse them as much as you like 
(including entering them with a Metatool), but measure or note attached 
only, not page attached, as I assume you need.

Christopher
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[Finale] MusicXML 1.1 underway - suggestions?

2005-02-24 Thread Michael Good
We have been hard at work on Version 1.1 of the MusicXML format. Our
customers have told us that while MusicXML software translates the music
itself very nicely, they want more of the musical formatting to
translate too. Since so many of our customers are using MusicXML to
share files between Finale and other programs, I wanted to post an
update on this mailing list.

MusicXML 1.1 will improve music notation interchange by including more
data about music formatting. This should be a big help for exchanging
files between Finale and other programs, or between newer and older
versions of Finale. We are also adding several new musical features to
the format. Because we are adding features to MusicXML 1.0, not changing
them, every valid MusicXML 1.0 file will also be a valid MusicXML 1.1
file.

If there are features you would like to see in MusicXML, or in our Dolet
plug-in, now is the time to let us know! If we don't hear about it, it
won't get into MusicXML 1.1. Feel free to send suggestions via our
contact form at

  http://www.recordare.com/contact.html

The new features in MusicXML 1.1 are being discussed and reviewed on our
MusicXML mailing list. These discussions get pretty technical, since we
need to make sure that MusicXML 1.1's new features works well for
software developers. If you are interested in following or joining the
discussion, please sign up at:

  http://www.recordare.com/lists#MusicXML

Thanks for your help!

Michael Good
Recordare LLC
www.recordare.com




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Re: [Finale] Re: Condensed Lyric Font

2005-02-24 Thread Noel Stoutenburg
Darcy wrote, about looking for a condensed font for use in lyrics:
This is something I've been looking for, too, and for that reason, 
collecting collections of fonts.  I've found a few promising examples on 
the Broderbund Click Art Fonts 2 disk, and several more on the disk 
4000 fonts, from www.topics-ent.com.   A drawback to both of these 
sources is that while they may or may not be closely related to existing 
digital fonts, one cannot tell by the names.  Also, the font families 
seem to be small in these sources, so you may have a regular and 
condensed width, but not a wide one. 

Another factor on the upside, is that while these are commercial 
products, they are not expensive; I think I paid $4.99 USD for the 4000 
fonts disk, and about twenty or thirty for the Broderbund disk.

ns
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