Re: [Finale] OT Violone tuning in Bach
As I said before, the 6th Brandenburg concerto has a low Bb for the violone (last note of last movement). The part is marked Violone e Cembalo so maybe Bach was thinking keyboard here. But it's interesting to note that the cello part, which in the few preceding measures is identical to the violone part (cello + violone therefore playing in octaves), goes up an octave at this point. Bach had apparently taken the trouble to make the cello part fit the range of the instrument, so I think it's quite likely that he really expected the violone to have that low Bb. Michael Cook At 22:14 + 4/03/2005, Ken Moore wrote: I found the score, and my memory was at fault. The part is marked Violone e Cembalo and has lots of low Cs. Of course, if he had that note on his keyboard but not on his violone, he might still have written a single part and left it to the player to cope, but rather more tellingly, in the second concerto, the keyboard and 'cello have the combined part, and the Violone di ripieno part has low Cs. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] String divisi
On 4 Mar 2005 at 17:25, Godofredo Romero wrote: Taken from Cecil Forsyth' book on orchestration The name Violone, i.e big Viola, was given to the Double-Bass, and in accordance with the accurate if somewhat limited principles of the Italian laguage, the intermediate instrument was christened, Red-Indian-fashion, little big Viola, Violoncello. It's a four stringed instrument. Eh? A violone is a member of the *viol* family, not part of the violin family, and has a variable number of strings. Certainly the instrument NYU is acquiring will have gut strings, a flat back, C holes and frets, which means it has nothing to do with the modern double bass nor with the cello. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT Violone tuning in Bach
On 4 Mar 2005 at 22:14, Ken Moore wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] John Howell writes: IIRC, there is also a low B in Brandenburg 3, but that may have been intended for a six-string violone. I with I had a score at hand to check this, but it seems kinda questionable. Could somebody check and report back to us? While bass tuning was and is the least standardized in the string family, I believe the violone was tuned an octave below the bass viola da gamba, which would take it down to a low D, a whole step below the low E of the normal bass violin, but nowhere near a low B. The lowest note I've seen throughout Bach's work is low C, the lowest note of the cello in standard tuning and the lowest note available on the organ keyboard. (This is entirely separate from the question of the original, intended pitch for the Weimar cantatas, which is a very special case.) I found the score, and my memory was at fault. The part is marked Violone e Cembalo and has lots of low Cs. Of course, if he had that note on his keyboard . . . He did. . . . but not on his violone, he might still have written a single part and left it to the player to cope, but rather more tellingly, in the second concerto, the keyboard and 'cello have the combined part, and the Violone di ripieno part has low Cs. I play parts on viola da gamba all the time that has low Cs (the gamba goes down to D) -- sometimes the pieces were probably intended for cello, other times, they had gambas that had those notes, and sometimes they didn't much care what instrument you played it on. When it's particularly important and frequent, I tune the D down to C for the duration of the piece. It's fairly easy to do, at least for me, though it means I have to think harder about fingerings involving the bottom string. It would be a much more difficult task if I were retuning a string between two other strings. I'm never averse to tuning down like this (I may be be doing it in the Couperin Lessons of Tenebre very soon -- haven't decided yet) because I don't find it difficult at all, and because the lower strings of my instrument are very stable and stay exactly where I'm playing them. My instrument is in the shop right now and the one I'm playing (a 1933 Voss built in Berlin!) is *not* stable (pegs slip all the time -- ack!), so maybe I won't do it at all. I see no reason that contemporary players of low-tension bass instruments might not have done the same. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] String divisi
On 4 Mar 2005 at 17:32, John Howell wrote: At 3:46 PM -0500 3/4/05, David W. Fenton wrote: Also, keep in mind that Bach's gamba sonatas assumed a 7-string gamba with a low A string (because two of the three sonatas require low B), Hmm. The only one I'm really familiar with is the G major, and that one certainly doesn't require the newfangled 7th string. . . . Well, the first one is a reworking of a flute sonata that is earlier than the other two sonatas. . . . Also please note that the gamba obbligato in the St. John Passion (No. 58 in the old numbering), which he wrote a year after leaving Coethen, was for a 6-string instrument, as are the Brandenburg parts in No. 6, while the gamba parts in the St. Matthew Passion do require the 7th string. By 1729 he was not only aware of the modification introduced by St. Colombe and Marais, but had someone with an instrument that would play the parts. That would make a great deal of sense that 2 of the 3 would have the low note, then, since they are later (if I'm remembering correctly -- gotta run to a rehearsal in 10 minutes, or I'd pull out the score and check). -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT Bass low B
At 9:53 PM + 3/4/05, Ken Moore wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Roger Satorra writes: You're talking about a scordatura. I don't think of all cases of tuning a lower string down as scordatura. I associate that with notation that tells you where to put your fingers, but because the string is tuned in a non-standard manner, the pitch that comes out is not the one notated. That is what I recall from the Bach suites for unaccompanied 'cello. Do any readers know differently? The article in New Grove runs almost 6 full column, and is quite complete. I summarize and excerpt: Scordatura. It. from scordare: 'to mistune.' A mistuning of string instruments, notablhy lutes and violins. Scordatura was first used early in the 16th century and enjoyed a vogue between 1600 and 1750. Thereafter it was used less and less, and it is now rare. ... Any tuning of the violin other than its established tuning is defined as a scordatura. On the other hand, since the viola d'amore probably had no standard tuning before about 17j50 (after which a D major/minor tuning was most common), any viola d'amore tuning before 1750 is more properly called 'accordatura.' Scordatura has certain advantages which prompted its use: 1. Extend the range downward by tuning the lowest string a tone lower. 2. Make certain passages easier or possible. [Example: Biber's 'Mystery' Sonata No. 11.] 3. Produce special effects. [Example: Stravinsky's 'Firebird Suite.'] 4. Increase brilliance. [Examples: viola in Mozart's 'Sinfonie Concertante,' violin in Paganini's Violin Concerto No. 1.] 5. Produce mixed sonorities. [i.e. change the sound of the instrument.] Out of consideration for the player (whose fingerings are based on the normal tuning), scordatura pieces are generally written so that the player reads the music as he would if playing in the normal tuning--in effect a a species of tablature for a kind of transposing instrument. ... In a few cases the actual sounding notes in a scordatura piece are given by the composer, and the player must work out his own fingering [examples given], but 'sounding-notation' is impractical for the player, and consequently it has seldom been used. I'm based in Europe and it's nothing usual for double bass to tune the 5th string to B. Always C. Not in the UK, in my experience, A difference reflected in other usages. The UK bass trombone for years was an instrument in G without valve, which I don't believe was ever used in the U.S., although I'm not sure about Europe. I'm also not sure when the modern Bb/F bass trombone came into use in different places (and the more recent double and triple valve instruments), but it is the size of the bore and the bell that defines the tone quality of the modern bass trombone, not the key it's in. And of course the Viennese winds are quite different from those standard in the rest of the world, even today. and the number of examples of low B being demanded suggests that Austrian practice may not be so, but I don't know for sure. I recall reading somewhere that tuning to B was more common in Europe and less so in the US. The point of tuning to B was mentioned earlier: it keeps the same relationship between the strings and therefore the same correspondence between intervals and finger spacing. I would also think that keeping the string tension even across the bridge would be a consideration. Six-string or five-string electric basses are now common in pop music, and I wonder how they are tuned. And John Denver is alleged to have used a scordatura tuning for his guitar, allowing him to play figurations that would have been unplayable in normal guitar tuning. John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT Bass low B
John Howell wrote: Six-string or five-string electric basses are now common in pop music, and I wonder how they are tuned. And John Denver is alleged to have used a scordatura tuning for his guitar, allowing him to play figurations that would have been unplayable in normal guitar tuning. My regular bass player (I'm primarily a jazz player in California) recently got a 5-string bass, and tunes the low string to B. According to him, that's pretty standard. And Joni Mitchell (and others) have been writing songs where the guitar is re-tuned for a LONG time, in popular (or at least relatively popular) music. cd ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT Bass low B
Six-string or five-string electric basses are now common in pop music, and I wonder how they are tuned. Low B, high C- 4ths all the way. And John Denver is alleged to have used a scordatura tuning for his guitar, allowing him to play figurations that would have been unplayable in normal guitar tuning. Not so unusual for guitarists. Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Chord symbol
Hello, How can I write a chord such as C/Bb7 ? When doing so, finale removes the 7 of the Bb. Thanks, Roger ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT contrasbass instruments (was String divisi)
At 3:06 PM +0100 3/5/05, Johannes Gebauer wrote: I am by no means an expert, but the term violone is used for various instruments, including the cello itself (see for instance Corelli's violin sonatas original title), but was also in wide use for a double bass instrument. A violone could be an 8' or 16' instrument, or a mixture of both (the G-violone). Once again, terminology can be a trap. Corelli's church sonatas--at least some of the published ones, I believe--specify violone OR organ, if memory serves. I believe he distinguished carefully between 8' and 16' instruments, but I also believe that he would have worked with whichever 16' instrument was available at the time. Corelli was the third major 17th century composer (although probably not the only one) to specifiy the 16' instruments, after Monteverdi and Schuetz. To apply the term to cello would be so unusual as to be highly questionable, in my humble opinion. And it's easy to forget that he wrote for immediate use with players he knew and worked with every day, not for abstract publication. David's definition of the violone as the contrabass of the viol family is exactly correct in modern usage, much as fortepiano has become the accepted term for the pre-metal-bracing forms of the piano. Confusion of terminology during the first century 16' instruments were being integrated into the instrumentarium would not surprise me a bit. In fact I would expect it. John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT Bass low B
...In a few cases the actual sounding notes in a scordatura piece are given by the composer, and the player must work out his own fingering [examples given], but 'sounding-notation' is impractical for the player, and consequently it has seldom been used. 'Actual sounding notes' is the most common way of notating guitar music with scordaturas - the most frequent are: sixth string down to D, and third string down to F sharp (produces the same string intervals as Renaissance lute). Anything much more complicated, e.g. DADGAD, in odd tunings is usually in tablature, . Richard Yates ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Chord symbol
Your chord is written incorrectly. If you want a Bb7 over a C bass then you must reverse the order to Bb7/C Guy Hayden - Original Message - From: Roger Julià Satorra [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 11:22 AM Subject: [Finale] Chord symbol Hello, How can I write a chord such as C/Bb7 ? When doing so, finale removes the 7 of the Bb. Thanks, Roger ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Chord symbol
At 5:22 PM +0100 3/5/05, Roger =?UNKNOWN?Q?Juli=E0?= Satorra wrote: Hello, How can I write a chord such as C/Bb7 ? When doing so, finale removes the 7 of the Bb. I that a polychord (i.e. C major triad over Bb7 chord)? The program is obviously reading it as C major over a Bb bass note. (You could redefine it as a Bb 13 (#11).) John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Chord symbol
No, what I want is a Bb7 (9, +11, 13), it's easier to write C/Bb7, but not by finale! Roger -- Guy Hayden[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your chord is written incorrectly. If you want a Bb7 over a C bass then you must reverse the order to Bb7/C Guy Hayden - Original Message - From: Roger Julià Satorra [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 11:22 AM Subject: [Finale] Chord symbol Hello, How can I write a chord such as C/Bb7 ? When doing so, finale removes the 7 of the Bb. Thanks, Roger ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] String divisi
On Mar 4, 2005, at 4:25 PM, Godofredo Romero wrote: Taken from Cecil Forsyth' book on orchestration The name Violone, i.e big Viola, was given to the Double-Bass, and in accordance with the accurate if somewhat limited principles of the Italian laguage, the intermediate instrument was christened, Red-Indian-fashion, little big Viola, Violoncello. It's a four stringed instrument. Forsyth wrote in 1914, and his information is totally outdated. The name violone was applied to the original bass of the violin family (Fr.: basse de violons), wh. was tuned like the cello but had a longer neck and never played above first position. The cello was developed ca. 1660 as a soloist's version of the violone, and was called violoncello because of its shorter neck. Eventually, of course, the vc. took over from the older instrument completely. About this same time (ca. 1700) the cb, wh. previously had served only to support the basses in church choirs, began to appear in the orchestra, and the name violone was transferred to it. NB: there was no 16' voice in the orchestras of Lully or Corelli. One more point on the word violone. Back in the pre-cello period, the same word was used indifferently for low-pitched gambas as well, and instruments of either type could appear in the continuo section of 17th-c. orchestras. All this info comes from _The Birth of the Orchestra_, wh. I have mentioned frequently here and wh. I strongly recommend to anyone interested in the subject. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT Bass low B
On Mar 4, 2005, at 4:53 PM, Ken Moore wrote: I don't think of all cases of tuning a lower string down as scordatura. I associate that with notation that tells you where to put your fingers, but because the string is tuned in a non-standard manner, the pitch that comes out is not the one notated. That is what I recall from the Bach suites for unaccompanied 'cello. Do any readers know differently? Scordatura is sometimes notated that way, and sometimes at the actual pitch, the convention varying with time, place, and circumstance. Any unorthodox tuning of a stringed instrument is scordatura regardless of the notation. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Chord symbol
my approach would be to write it as Bb13(#11) - or make up a score expression if you don't need playback (I would indicate this as C triad/Bb7 to avoid anyone thinking you put the bass note on the wrong side) On Mar 5, 2005, at 10:45 AM, Roger Julià Satorra wrote: No, what I want is a Bb7 (9, +11, 13), it's easier to write C/Bb7, but not by finale! Roger -- Guy Hayden[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your chord is written incorrectly. If you want a Bb7 over a C bass then you must reverse the order to Bb7/C Guy Hayden - Original Message - From: Roger Julià Satorra [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 11:22 AM Subject: [Finale] Chord symbol Hello, How can I write a chord such as C/Bb7 ? When doing so, finale removes the 7 of the Bb. Thanks, Roger ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Chord symbol
That seems to be a problem with Finale. When ever I have polychords that I can't teach Finale (such as C7/Bb7 or C/Bb7), I write it in Score Ex. JIm - Original Message - From: John Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [Finale] Chord symbol At 5:22 PM +0100 3/5/05, Roger =?UNKNOWN?Q?Juli=E0?= Satorra wrote: Hello, How can I write a chord such as C/Bb7 ? When doing so, finale removes the 7 of the Bb. I that a polychord (i.e. C major triad over Bb7 chord)? The program is obviously reading it as C major over a Bb bass note. (You could redefine it as a Bb 13 (#11).) John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 3/4/2005 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Chord symbol
Roger, /X is only for a bass note, as in Bb/C (Bb over C = Csus). Do you mean: C ? Bb7 Then a Bb13 (#11) should be appropriate. Kurt At 17:22 05.03.2005, you wrote: Hello, How can I write a chord such as C/Bb7 ? When doing so, finale removes the 7 of the Bb. Thanks, Roger ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT Bass low B
On 05 Mar 2005, at 11:18 AM, Chuck Israels wrote: And John Denver is alleged to have used a scordatura tuning for his guitar, allowing him to play figurations that would have been unplayable in normal guitar tuning. Not so unusual for guitarists. Yes -- as Chuck said, that's a wee bit of an understatement. John Denver is hardly an anomaly. There are lots of Jimi Hendrix songs where both he and Noel Redding tune their entire instruments down a half step, drop D tuning was more standard than not for 1990's Seattle grunge bands (and is still widely used), Joni Mitchell has probably used more than fifty different alternate tunings in her songs over the course of her career, and pretty much everyone uses capos at one point or another. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Chord symbol
Okay, there have been some confused responses here. What Roger wants to do is create a compound chord, also known as a polychord. Compound chords are extremely common in jazz, but Finale doesn't directly support them, which has been a longstanding source of frustration for jazz musicians using Finale. Roger, your options are: 1) Enter two separate chords on the same beat -- C and Bb7 -- manually drag the C up, and draw a horizontal line between them. (There many options for this -- if you're not picky about the appearance, probably the easiest thing is to just use a smart shape line). 2) Rewrite the chord as Bb13(#11). 3) Buy Bill Duncan's Chord Symbol font, which adds support for compound chords. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Re: [Finale] Chord symbol
Yes, that's exactly what I mean. I know Bb13 (#11) would be appropriate, but specially when writing for big band, the piano part should be written C --- Bb7 I guess it's something that MUST be corrected by finale. I'm curious about how Sibelius deals with it. I'll ask arround, jazz people prefere Sibelius than Finale. Perhaps that's why. Roger -- Kurt Gnos[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Roger, /X is only for a bass note, as in Bb/C (Bb over C = Csus). Do you mean: C? Bb7 Then a Bb13 (#11) should be appropriate. Kurt ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 20, Issue 7
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Andrew Stiller writes: Scordatura is sometimes notated that way, and sometimes at the actual pitch, the convention varying with time, place, and circumstance. Any unorthodox tuning of a stringed instrument is scordatura regardless of the notation. OK, but since there seems to be no agreement on the orthodox tuning of the fifth string of a double bass, I would count both B and C as accordatura (following the argument that John Howell found in Grove). -- Ken Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web site: http://www.mooremusic.org.uk/ I reject emails 100k automatically: warn me beforehand if you want to send one ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Chord symbol
Oh, wait, I forgot one (actually not a bad option at all): 4) Enter the chord as: C --- Bb Then, on the same beat, enter just the chord suffix (the 7), and drag it into position. That's probably the best solution outside of buying the Bill Duncan font (which I actually highly recommend.) - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 05 Mar 2005, at 1:58 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Okay, there have been some confused responses here. What Roger wants to do is create a compound chord, also known as a polychord. Compound chords are extremely common in jazz, but Finale doesn't directly support them, which has been a longstanding source of frustration for jazz musicians using Finale. Roger, your options are: 1) Enter two separate chords on the same beat -- C and Bb7 -- manually drag the C up, and draw a horizontal line between them. (There many options for this -- if you're not picky about the appearance, probably the easiest thing is to just use a smart shape line). 2) Rewrite the chord as Bb13(#11). 3) Buy Bill Duncan's Chord Symbol font, which adds support for compound chords. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Re: [Finale] Chord symbol
-- Darcy James Argue[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) Enter two separate chords on the same beat -- C and Bb7 -- manually drag the C up, and draw a horizontal line between them. (There many options for this -- if you're not picky about the appearance, probably the easiest thing is to just use a smart shape line). You're right Darcy. That's what I did. I think that I'll buy Bill Duncan's font. Thanks, Roger ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT Bass low B
On Mar 5, 2005, at 1:47 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 05 Mar 2005, at 11:18 AM, Chuck Israels wrote: And John Denver is alleged to have used a scordatura tuning for his guitar, allowing him to play figurations that would have been unplayable in normal guitar tuning. Not so unusual for guitarists. Yes -- as Chuck said, that's a wee bit of an understatement. John Denver is hardly an anomaly. There are lots of Jimi Hendrix songs where both he and Noel Redding tune their entire instruments down a half step, drop D tuning was more standard than not for 1990's Seattle grunge bands (and is still widely used), Joni Mitchell has probably used more than fifty different alternate tunings in her songs over the course of her career, and pretty much everyone uses capos at one point or another. And of course everyone's favourite country-jazz guitarist, Pat Metheny. Some of his chords, too, are positively unplayable on a normally-tuned instrument. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re(2): [Finale] Chord symbol
I'll second this recommendation. If you are doing much of this kind of music, Bill's Finale Productivity package is the way to go. It's saved me huge amounts of time and frustration and is well worth the $150 for the whole pack. At least check it out at http://gwmp.com/FinaleProductivityFrameset.htm **Leigh On Sat, Mar 5, 2005, Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's probably the best solution outside of buying the Bill Duncan font (which I actually highly recommend.) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Chord symbol
Hi Roger, While I agree that Finale should have support for compound chords (and listed a few workarounds in previous posts), I can assure you that you that when most piano players see Bb13(#11), the voicing they will play is very likely to be a C triad over a Bb7 chord. In other words, I don't think there's any particular advantage to using a compound chord here -- the result will be the same even if you write Bb13(#11). It certainly doesn't make any difference whether you're writing for big band or not. At any rate, if there is a particular voicing that you need from the piano player at that moment, then you should write it out! As a piano player, nothing is more frustrating than the composer/arranger trying to lead your voicings by using nonstandard chord symbols. If you want a specific voicing, write it out. Otherwise, you have to trust us to choose an appropriate voicing. Compound chords are more properly used for chords that cannot easily be written as non-compound chords, for instance: Gb C- - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 05 Mar 2005, at 2:04 PM, Roger Juli Satorra wrote: Yes, that's exactly what I mean. I know Bb13 (#11) would be appropriate, but specially when writing for big band, the piano part should be written C --- Bb7 I guess it's something that MUST be corrected by finale. I'm curious about how Sibelius deals with it. I'll ask arround, jazz people prefere Sibelius than Finale. Perhaps that's why. Roger -- Kurt Gnos[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Roger, /X is only for a bass note, as in Bb/C (Bb over C = Csus). Do you mean: C? Bb7 Then a Bb13 (#11) should be appropriate. Kurt ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Chord symbol
On Mar 5, 2005, at 11:45 AM, Roger Julià Satorra wrote: No, what I want is a Bb7 (9, +11, 13), it's easier to write C/Bb7, but not by finale! Roger Darcy gave you good advice about getting what you want on paper. I would gently suggest that while C Bb7 might be easier for you, it might be harder to read for the players, especially if a perfectly usable standard chord symbol already exists in the form Bb13(#11). In my own music, I only resort to polychords when a standard chord symbol DOESN'T exist (and, by the way, in this non-standardised jazz world, it is more common to consider slanted slash chords like C/Bb to indicate a chord with an alternate bass note, whereas the horizontal slash as I indicated first usually indicates a polychord.) But, neither my interests nor Finale's limitations should stop you. In fact, you should write to tech support and mention that Finale should support suffixes on the bottom chord of polychords, as I have. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT Bass low B
Christopher Smith wrote: And of course everyone's favourite country-jazz guitarist, Pat Metheny. Some of his chords, too, are positively unplayable on a normally-tuned instrument. Nah - they'er *simple*! If you're double-jointed, and have 16 inch long fingers. :) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 20, Issue 7
On Mar 5, 2005, at 1:48 PM, Ken Moore wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Andrew Stiller writes: Scordatura is sometimes notated that way, and sometimes at the actual pitch, the convention varying with time, place, and circumstance. Any unorthodox tuning of a stringed instrument is scordatura regardless of the notation. OK, but since there seems to be no agreement on the orthodox tuning of the fifth string of a double bass, I would count both B and C as accordatura (following the argument that John Howell found in Grove). Huh? As far as I know, a LOWER fifth string is overwhelmingly tuned to B it's usually the 4th string that goes to low C with an extension or alternate tuning. A HIGHER 5th string is usually tuned to high C (written middle C). Did I misunderstand? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] String divisi
There is interesting information on this subjet at http://www.earlybass.com/borgin.htm Godofredo Johannes Gebauer wrote: I am by no means an expert, but the term violone is used for various instruments, including the cello itself (see for instance Corelli's violin sonatas original title), but was also in wide use for a double bass instrument. A violone could be an 8' or 16' instrument, or a mixture of both (the G-violone). Johannes David W. Fenton wrote: On 4 Mar 2005 at 17:25, Godofredo Romero wrote: Taken from Cecil Forsyth' book on orchestration The name Violone, i.e big Viola, was given to the Double-Bass, and in accordance with the accurate if somewhat limited principles of the Italian laguage, the intermediate instrument was christened, Red-Indian-fashion, little big Viola, Violoncello. It's a four stringed instrument. Eh? A violone is a member of the *viol* family, not part of the violin family, and has a variable number of strings. Certainly the instrument NYU is acquiring will have gut strings, a flat back, C holes and frets, which means it has nothing to do with the modern double bass nor with the cello. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Chord symbol
Title: Re: [Finale] Chord symbol At 5:45 PM +0100 3/5/05, Roger =?UNKNOWN?Q?Juli=E0?= Satorra wrote: No, what I want is a Bb7 (9, +11, 13), it's easier to write C/Bb7, but not by finale! You've had some great advice, and what you want to write is, in fact, non-standard and confusing, as the confusion of our different responses makes quite clear. Back in my pen-and-ink days, I would have notated it as: C chord Bb7 chord and there would have been no question. John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Chord symbol
Hi John, The *notation* for compound chords isn't confusing, and your suggestion: C chord - Bb7 chord is both redundant *and* confusing. It's only the fact that Roger's particular compound chord is functionally equivalent to a standard chord (and is better written as a standard chord) that's the problem here. Compound chord notation itself is absolutely standard, widespread, and universally understood by halfway competent players. There is absolutely no need to write things like: A/Bb bass Or: A chord --- Bb chord Everybody who has the slightest clue about chord symbols knows the difference between: A/Bb and A --- Bb Anything else is just redundant clutter. No major jazz publisher uses anything except the nomenclature I just described. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 05 Mar 2005, at 5:26 PM, John Howell wrote: At 5:45 PM +0100 3/5/05, Roger =?UNKNOWN?Q?Juli=E0?= Satorra wrote: No, what I want is a Bb7 (9, +11, 13), it's easier to write C/Bb7, but not by finale! You've had some great advice, and what you want to write is, in fact, non-standard and confusing, as the confusion of our different responses makes quite clear. Back in my pen-and-ink days, I would have notated it as: C chord Bb7 chord and there would have been no question. John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] String divisi
At 11:50 AM -0500 3/5/05, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Mar 4, 2005, at 4:25 PM, Godofredo Romero wrote: Taken from Cecil Forsyth' book on orchestration The name Violone, i.e big Viola, was given to the Double-Bass, and in accordance with the accurate if somewhat limited principles of the Italian laguage, the intermediate instrument was christened, Red-Indian-fashion, little big Viola, Violoncello. It's a four stringed instrument. Forsyth wrote in 1914, and his information is totally outdated. The name violone was applied to the original bass of the violin family (Fr.: basse de violons), wh. was tuned like the cello but had a longer neck and never played above first position. The cello was developed ca. 1660 as a soloist's version of the violone, and was called violoncello because of its shorter neck. Eventually, of course, the vc. took over from the older instrument completely. Unless my memory is completely faulty, the three instruments of the viola da braccia family in sizes equivalent to the violin, viola and cello are clearly illustrated in Agricola (1529), although I'm not sure whether they are illustrated in Virdung (1511). It is very clear in the score to Monteverdi's L'Orfeo (1607) that the bottom line of the 5-part violin band was a cello-range instrument. One assumes that the bass size instrument in the 24 Violins of the King was a cello-sized instrument. Yes, Praetorius shows a bass cello (for want of an accepted term) and it was clearly one version of the bass viola da braccio in the 1610s, but while something may have happened around 1660 it clearly was not the invention of the cello as a new instrument. About this same time (ca. 1700) the cb, wh. previously had served only to support the basses in church choirs, began to appear in the orchestra, and the name violone was transferred to it. NB: there was no 16' voice in the orchestras of Lully or Corelli. Again, I must cite Monteverdi's use of both contrabass violin and contrabass viol in 1607 as well as a 16' instrument (of whichever family but most likely the viols) in the music of Schuetz, and Corelli's preference for contrabass in some of his church sonatas. 1700 is MUCH too late as the terminus ante quem for the use of the contrabass in ensembles, unless you are arguing that the orchestra itself didn't develop until c. 1700. One more point on the word violone. Back in the pre-cello period, the same word was used indifferently for low-pitched gambas as well, and instruments of either type could appear in the continuo section of 17th-c. orchestras. On that we can certainly agree. All this info comes from _The Birth of the Orchestra_, wh. I have mentioned frequently here and wh. I strongly recommend to anyone interested in the subject. I really do want to get and read this book, but if your quotations are accurate I would have to question the scholarship in advance. There is a very well-researched and well-written dissertation on the history of the cello which does not agree at all, accepts the cello as a 16th-century instrument (which it certainly was), and notes that it was during the 17th century that many cellists started to adopt the overhand violin bow position while viola da gambists retained the earlier underhand position. John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT contrasbass instruments (was String divisi)
John Howell wrote: Once again, terminology can be a trap. Corelli's church sonatas--at least some of the published ones, I believe--specify violone OR organ, if memory serves. I believe he distinguished carefully between 8' and 16' instruments, but I also believe that he would have worked with whichever 16' instrument was available at the time. Corelli was the third major 17th century composer (although probably not the only one) to specifiy the 16' instruments, after Monteverdi and Schuetz. To apply the term to cello would be so unusual as to be highly questionable, in my humble opinion. And it's easy to forget that he wrote for immediate use with players he knew and worked with every day, not for abstract publication. Not that I really want to take sides on this one, but there has been a long debate on what Violone meant for the Corelli sonatas, and as far as I know the outcome was pretty clearly cello. But some might disagree... Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Shutting the door on the Gates?....
I'malmost sorry to bring this erst-contentious subject back but far too perverse and morally weak to fight the urge: There was in interesting piece in today's Times; interesting to me for two reasons: first -- that which was intended by the writer: trying to account for the $21 Million price tag. But also of interest to me was the author's claim that this exhibit pumped an estimated $254 Million into NY's economy My prior defense here for the spending of millions of dollarson what seemed to be a personal artistic statement, beyond all the other aesthetic reasons which I place first, was that of the boost to the local economy. That's the issue I use all the time when forced to defend private OR public spending on thearts -- and when I know I'm trying to sell the idea to people for whom only the bottom line matters. Restaurants, travel, parking, hotels, blah blah blah. But I must say I'm personally amazed at the estimate of a $254,000,000 return offered in this article; the author gives no attribution for the figure's source;does anyone have any idea how ballpark the figure might be? http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/05/nyregion/05gates.html?th Best, Les Les MarsdenFounding Music Director and Conductor, The Mariposa Symphony OrchestraMusic and Mariposa? Ah, Paradise!!! http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.htmlhttp://www.sierratel.com/mcf/nprc/mso.htm Mountain View Left Border.jpgBEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Marsden;Les FN:Les Marsden ORG:Mariposa County Arts Council, Inc TEL;HOME;VOICE:(209) 966-6988 TEL;HOME;FAX:(209) 966-6988 ADR;WORK:;;5009 Fifth Street;Mariposa;CA;95338 LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:5009 Fifth Street=0D=0AMariposa, CA 95338 ADR;HOME:;;7145 Snyder Creek Road;Mariposa;CA;95338-9641 LABEL;HOME;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:7145 Snyder Creek Road=0D=0AMariposa, CA 95338-9641 URL;HOME:http://www.geocities.com/~jbenz/lesbio.html URL;WORK:http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.html EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] REV:20050306T001651Z END:VCARD ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Shutting the door on the Gates?....
With all due respect: How comes, that the opening posting of this thread managed to carry through 2 attachments? Klaus ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Shutting the door on the Gates?....
Les, no offense, but for gawd's sake don't send background image attachments to the entire list! Plain text only, and no attachments, PLEASE. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Fw: [Finale] Shutting the door on the Gates?....
My apologies to all;aren't attachments usually stripped and html automatically converted to plain text? In any event, again: my apologies for being startling. Les Les MarsdenFounding Music Director and Conductor, The Mariposa Symphony OrchestraMusic and Mariposa? Ah, Paradise!!! http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.htmlhttp://www.sierratel.com/mcf/nprc/mso.htm - Original Message - From: Darcy James Argue To: finale@shsu.edu Cc: Mariposa Symphony Orchestra Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] Shutting the door on the Gates? Les, no offense, but for gawd's sake don't send background image attachments to the entire list!Plain text only, and no attachments, PLEASE.- Darcy-[EMAIL PROTECTED]Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Shutting the door on the Gates?....
From: Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] Les, no offense, but for gawd's sake don't send background image attachments to the entire list! Plain text only, and no attachments, PLEASE. I don't blame the listers, who routinely add attachments to their mails. However I was profoundly convinced, that the list server invariably, senza variazioni, stripped off anything but plain ASCII from distributed messages. Klaus ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] TAN: GPO on Mac mini
Hi -- I crossposted this to the Northern Sound Forum: http://northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?p=268507#post268507 Okay, I've finally tried to get a moderately large score to play back in GPO via Finale 2005b on my 1.42 GHz Mac mini with 1 GB of RAM. The results, unfortunately, are not encouraging. Here are the instruments I'm using: GPO PLAYER 1 Flute Player 1 Flute Player 2 Eb Clarinet Solo Bb Clarinet Solo Bass Clarinet Solo GPO PLAYER 2 Trumpet 1 Player 1 KS Trumpet 1 Player 2 KS Trumpet 1 Player 3 KS Trumpet 1 Solo KS Trumpet 1 Player 1 KS GPO PLAYER 3 Tenor Trombone Player 1 KS Tenor Trombone Player 2 KS Tenor Trombone Player 3 KS Bass Trombone 2 Solo GPO PLAYER 4 Chromatic Harp 1 Lite Steinway Piano Lite Double Bass Pizz Solo Ambience reverb is set to Bypass. Everything starts okay, but when the dynamics get more intense and/or the music gets busier, I get a ton of cracks in Finale, and, shortly thereafter, playback grinds to a halt in a sea of cracking, usually picking up much later when the texture thins out. I tried the Record to File option in GPO studio, after quitting everything except GPO Studio and Finale, turning AirPort off, setting Finale playback to Non-Scrolling (pre-scan), and minimizing the Finale window and all GPO windows except the Record To File one. Some of the cracks audible during initial playback are eliminated in the recorded file, but the big problem is that in many areas where the texture is dense, the tempo speeds up! The resulting AIFF file is therefore useless. What to do? Is it even possible to get a score like this to play back on my hardware? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: GPO on Mac mini
Darcy, The playback ability of GPO on a mac vs that on a PC is just awful. The most I could ever get on my 867mhz 15 Powerbook was 6 instruments. So you could get 12. Maybe. I have a 2.2 ghz PC. It cost $350. I have not found a limit on GPO. There has been talk of improvement on the mac side but there has been none. steve, still peeved. On Mar 5, 2005, at 6:54 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi -- I crossposted this to the Northern Sound Forum: http://northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?p=268507#post268507 Okay, I've finally tried to get a moderately large score to play back in GPO via Finale 2005b on my 1.42 GHz Mac mini with 1 GB of RAM. The results, unfortunately, are not encouraging. Here are the instruments I'm using: GPO PLAYER 1 Flute Player 1 Flute Player 2 Eb Clarinet Solo Bb Clarinet Solo Bass Clarinet Solo GPO PLAYER 2 Trumpet 1 Player 1 KS Trumpet 1 Player 2 KS Trumpet 1 Player 3 KS Trumpet 1 Solo KS Trumpet 1 Player 1 KS GPO PLAYER 3 Tenor Trombone Player 1 KS Tenor Trombone Player 2 KS Tenor Trombone Player 3 KS Bass Trombone 2 Solo GPO PLAYER 4 Chromatic Harp 1 Lite Steinway Piano Lite Double Bass Pizz Solo Ambience reverb is set to Bypass. Everything starts okay, but when the dynamics get more intense and/or the music gets busier, I get a ton of cracks in Finale, and, shortly thereafter, playback grinds to a halt in a sea of cracking, usually picking up much later when the texture thins out. I tried the Record to File option in GPO studio, after quitting everything except GPO Studio and Finale, turning AirPort off, setting Finale playback to Non-Scrolling (pre-scan), and minimizing the Finale window and all GPO windows except the Record To File one. Some of the cracks audible during initial playback are eliminated in the recorded file, but the big problem is that in many areas where the texture is dense, the tempo speeds up! The resulting AIFF file is therefore useless. What to do? Is it even possible to get a score like this to play back on my hardware? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT Bass low B
Actually, in the most recent grammy awards, the first Hawaiian Music grammy went to Slack Key Guitar, Vol 2 which an album consisting totally of what most call drop tuning. In Hawai'i, we call it slack key or ki ho'alu. Slack key playing is an art in itself, and tunings can be quite personal, often identified with a particular artist or location, or time. Many of the standard ones have names, such as plantation (G tuning), Wahine, etc. Aside from how easily the playing of full-sounding chords comes out and the ability to have droning strings under the melody, it has the advantage that the sound is more in tune in a way, because the guitar is actually tuned to a particular key and is NOT even-tempered. Almost everyone who learns guitar here learns some slack (drop) tuning. At 10:54 AM 3/5/2005 -0500, John Howell wrote: At 9:53 PM + 3/4/05, Ken Moore wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Roger Satorra writes: You're talking about a scordatura. snip Six-string or five-string electric basses are now common in pop music, and I wonder how they are tuned. And John Denver is alleged to have used a scordatura tuning for his guitar, allowing him to play figurations that would have been unplayable in normal guitar tuning. John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale - Bruce K. H. Kau[EMAIL PROTECTED] 'Aina Haina, Honolulu, Hawai'i Second star to the right, and straight on 'til morning ... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Fw: [Finale] OT email formatting (was: Shutting the door on the Gates?....)
As noted earlier, attachments are not stripped, and for people that still use dial-up, binary attachments are a bear to download. Also, most listservs cannot handle formatting such as HTML. And, when the text formatting does come through, what you think is perfectly readable type may be interpreted on the target machine as a font that's too small or too fancy. Please stick to using plain text transmission. At one time someone (sorry, forgot who) had a FAQ that he posted periodically that explained this. At 04:39 PM 3/5/2005 -0800, Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote: My apologies to all; aren't attachments usually stripped and html automatically converted to plain text? In any event, again: my apologies for being startling. Les Les Marsden Founding Music Director and Conductor, The Mariposa Symphony Orchestra Music and Mariposa? Ah, Paradise!!! - Bruce K. H. Kau[EMAIL PROTECTED] 'Aina Haina, Honolulu, Hawai'i Second star to the right, and straight on 'til morning ... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: GPO on Mac mini
Hi Steve et al., I was actually able to solve 95% of my problems by reducing the polyphony in the piano and harp parts in the score I'm working on. That's not a big deal for me -- in this piece, at least, I don't need anywhere near the 64-note polyphony GPO assigns those instruments by default. I set them to 12 each, and playback was *much* improved. I still get periodic light clicks when playing back in Finale, but I'm hopeful that those will go away when I try to record to file. The important thing is that GPO playback no longer crashes and burns on me, even with 17 instruments playing simultaneously. By the way, the instructions on how to change the polyphony for each instrument in GPO are hard to find (and, in one instance, misleading) so as a courtesy, I'm repeating that info here. In the Kontakt player window, below the CPU Usage indicator and directly to the left of the MIDI channel indicator, there's a window with a pair of eighth notes and a pair of numbers -- for instance, 0/64. The first number tells you how many notes are currently sounding, and the second number tells you the maximum polyphony for that instrument. Click and drag on the *second* number to adjust the polyphony -- drag up to increase, drag down to decrease. [By the way, the user interface for the Kontakt player is almost as bad as the UI for iKey 2. Really, it's that bad. You'll notice there's no way to adjust the maximum polyphony by say, TYPING IN A GODDAMN NUMBER. Gah. Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.] You should set all of your wind instruments to a maximum polyphony of 1 -- this actually makes the playback more realistic. Set any multitimbral instruments (including percussion) to the minimum polyphony you can stand. If you let the polyphony pile up too high, GPO will choke and plaback will grind to a halt. By the way, it would be nice if we could set a *global* maximum polyphony in GPO, in addition to the settings for each individual instruments. This would let you get away with lots of polyphony on unaccompanied or lightly accompanied piano or harp parts, but reduce it on the fly when GPO starts to get overloaded. Finally, Kontakt 2.0 is supposed to be much better optimized for Mac, and so hopefully eventually there will be a GPO Kontakt Player based on Kontakt 2.0. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 05 Mar 2005, at 8:12 PM, Steve Gibons wrote: Darcy, The playback ability of GPO on a mac vs that on a PC is just awful. The most I could ever get on my 867mhz 15 Powerbook was 6 instruments. So you could get 12. Maybe. I have a 2.2 ghz PC. It cost $350. I have not found a limit on GPO. There has been talk of improvement on the mac side but there has been none. steve, still peeved. On Mar 5, 2005, at 6:54 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi -- I crossposted this to the Northern Sound Forum: http://northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?p=268507#post268507 Okay, I've finally tried to get a moderately large score to play back in GPO via Finale 2005b on my 1.42 GHz Mac mini with 1 GB of RAM. The results, unfortunately, are not encouraging. Here are the instruments I'm using: GPO PLAYER 1 Flute Player 1 Flute Player 2 Eb Clarinet Solo Bb Clarinet Solo Bass Clarinet Solo GPO PLAYER 2 Trumpet 1 Player 1 KS Trumpet 1 Player 2 KS Trumpet 1 Player 3 KS Trumpet 1 Solo KS Trumpet 1 Player 1 KS GPO PLAYER 3 Tenor Trombone Player 1 KS Tenor Trombone Player 2 KS Tenor Trombone Player 3 KS Bass Trombone 2 Solo GPO PLAYER 4 Chromatic Harp 1 Lite Steinway Piano Lite Double Bass Pizz Solo Ambience reverb is set to Bypass. Everything starts okay, but when the dynamics get more intense and/or the music gets busier, I get a ton of cracks in Finale, and, shortly thereafter, playback grinds to a halt in a sea of cracking, usually picking up much later when the texture thins out. I tried the Record to File option in GPO studio, after quitting everything except GPO Studio and Finale, turning AirPort off, setting Finale playback to Non-Scrolling (pre-scan), and minimizing the Finale window and all GPO windows except the Record To File one. Some of the cracks audible during initial playback are eliminated in the recorded file, but the big problem is that in many areas where the texture is dense, the tempo speeds up! The resulting AIFF file is therefore useless. What to do? Is it even possible to get a score like this to play back on my hardware? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] TAN: GPO Pitchwheel
Can anyone tell me how to define an expression for pitchwheel playback that will work in GPO? I'm trying to work around the fact that the bass clarinet in GPO -- for reasons that are still mysterious to me -- only descends to concert B1, instead of concert Bb1. (Concert Db1 I could understand, if they sampled an instrument without the extended range. But the instrument they sampled clearly *does* have the extended range, so why they didn't include the low concert Bb I have no idea.) So anyway, I moved the printing note to Layer 4, which doesn't play back, and I'm trying to create a hidden playback note in Layer 1. When I play the GPO bass clarinet via my MIDI keyboard, the pitchwheel works -- it raises or lowers the pitch by a maximum of a whole step. So I figured if I wrote a low concert C2 and added an expression defined for Playback: Pitchwheel: Set To Value: -127 -- and then defined a second expression returning the pitch wheel to zero attached to the subsequent note -- that ought to work, right? Except it doesn't. GPO ignores the Pitchwheel expressions and merrily plays the written C2, instead of the intended Bb1. What am I doing wrong? (Human playback is off.) - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: GPO Pitchwheel
Hey all, What am I doing wrong? Sorry, I shoulda RTFM: In the following discussion, its useful to remember that when the pitch wheel is at rest, its value is 0; when its as far down as it can go, its value is -8192; and when its at the top of its range of movement, its value is 8191. So I guess that answers my question. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
